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qjkxbmwvz ,

+1 for hex, but that’s in a lab setting — climate controlled environment, generally not high torque, pretty benign conditions. But even that is fraught with metric-vs.-imperial mix ups.

nickwitha_k ,

But even that is fraught with metric-vs.-imperial mix ups.

Get a set of rotary broaches in the nearest metric size up from the imperial ones and remove the problem.

DJDarren ,

The key is to drag the US into the future along with literally everyone but Liberia and Myanmar.

Neato ,
@Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

Why is screw DLC legal? Why are people ok with companies preventing people from working in their own devices?

Olhonestjim ,

Tamper proof is to prevent random idiots from messing with your stuff.

Bertuccio ,

Random idiots that don’t know hardware stores exist

Olhonestjim ,

Once they’re determined to fuck with your stuff, they’re no longer random. It’s just to delay the occasional dingleberry with a multi tool until they get distracted and forget. “Huh, it doesn’t fit. Oh well, Tik Tok it is.”

Corkyskog ,
@Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works avatar

Every lock can be broken. My step grandfather would use tapper proof screws to board up his lake house for winter. Otherwise you risk some drunk ice fishing fuck breaking into your house.

If someone really wanted to get in, it doesn’t really matter what fasteners you use, they would just cut the wood. It just prevents common vandals that happen to have a screwdriver, not determined criminals.

Duamerthrax ,

Tamper resistant torx is still a weird niche. Tamper resistant slotted for bathroom stalls makes sense because a person with a coin could disassemble a whole row of stalls without any effort, but if you’re carrying around a torx bit, you might as well be carrying around a security bit.

For some reason, Ford decided to use Security Torx to hold together their hybrid battery packs. Couldn’t tell you why that was better then regular Torx.

hydrospanner ,

For some reason, Ford decided to use Security Torx to hold together their hybrid battery packs. Couldn’t tell you why that was better then regular Torx.

I’d guess that was some sort of safety standard designed to protect vehicle owners from themselves.

As Torx gets more and more common, it’s presence is less and less likely to be a serious hurdle, so the security screws are a simple way for them to sort of say to the owner “don’t mess with the stuff below this”. If they want to, they still can, but it’s a specific effort at that point…so Ford can say they’ve implemented a safety measure. Might even be some sort of government standard too, where using a less common fastener style brings them into compliance without needing some sort of even less accessible design, like a sealed off system.

nexguy ,
@nexguy@lemmy.world avatar

You can turn a tamper proof screw into a regular screw by using a flat head as a lever and breaking off the center post. Harder to do the bigger the screw is.

lightnsfw ,

Who said we are? It’s up to Congress to regulate things like that and they don’t know shit about fuck. Unless someone “lobbies” them to do it of course.

Xeroxchasechase ,

Plus what?!

HootinNHollerin ,

Torx++

Not to be confused with Torx#

mikezane ,

Robinson aka the square head is by far the superior choice.

renzev OP ,

I’m not canadian, so I don’t have a lot of experience with robertson. But from the limited experience that I do have, I would rate it 10/10.

What would you recommend for smaller screws (e.g. for electronics)? As far as I know, there aren’t smaller sizes of robertson like there are with torx?

brap ,

Pozidrive has real nice engagement and doesn’t cam out like Phillips does. And JIS drivers do a better job in Phillips than Phillips ones do.

HakFoo ,

After wrecking some JIS screws on a vintage reciever, I bought a nice Vessel-brand JIS driver set, and use it for all my crosshead needs.

casmael ,

Pozidriv reliably makes me projectile vomit ☹️

Noel_Skum ,

I’ve driven tens of thousands of pozidrive 2/3 screws into timber with an impact driver. For whatever reason my experience is the diametric opposite of yours. Big up the Pozidrive massive.

casmael ,

I absolutely love the amount of strong opinions on screw heads 🙏

Noel_Skum ,

Me too. Nice to see the passion of the construction industry ( and the weekend warriors too)

Thorny_Insight ,

It’s probably because of the impact driver. The bit seats back into the bottom of the slot between every impact. This doesn’t happen with normal drivers.

Noel_Skum ,

People (try to) use a drill driver as opposed to an impact driver? Wow. I now understand why they could have a grim experience… thanks.

Thorny_Insight ,

Philips doesn’t cam out that easily either. Most people just don’t realize there’s three common sizes.

hydrospanner ,

Philips doesn’t cam out that easily either.

I mean…that’s an inherently subjective statement.

But more objectively, regardless of how easily, it’s still the worst of the available options.

RubberElectrons , (edited )
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah but JIS for screws/bolts has been abandoned by the Japanese govt as of… 2005?

My JIS screwdrivers are fantastic, not easy to torque out on a regular Phillips screw. Stick with the “vessel” brand.

E: I can’t find anything more than discussion about it, nothing official. Sorry for the wrong info, looks like JIS screws are still alive.

brap ,

I did not know that, but yes to Vessel!

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

I think I was wrong, see edit. Carry on!

BigDanishGuy ,

LOL sure, good one… Only time that square abomination is the answer is if the question is “what do you get if you put a toddler in charge of designing a poor knockoff unbrako head?”

TEAM TORX REPRESENT!

renzev OP ,

Things are getting heated in the screw fandom

FauxPseudo ,
@FauxPseudo@lemmy.world avatar

As a person that changes out a lot of electrical outlets and switches I have to agree.

Agrivar ,

Found the Canadian.

user1234 ,

*Robertson

HootinNHollerin , (edited )

Its flaw is that you can only get to it in 90deg increments. When the screw is in a hard to reach place that will drive you crazy

helpImTrappedOnline ,

Don’t discount hex, paired with a ball-end wrench, those are great for odd angles or tight spaces a straight wrench can’t get too.

KillingTimeItself ,

they’re pretty good but semi liable to stripping due to lower surface area, as long as you use the right tool, and a quality one, you’ll be fine though.

Also hex is somewhat inter-compatible with torx, which is really cursed.

Aux ,

Torx are easier to strip, especially the smaller sizes. They’re pretty much single use screws.

KillingTimeItself ,

small screws in general are just easy to strip. Small torx is also liable to breaking a driver, like most small screws and drivers.

Torx though, i’ve never had strip out once, even doing construction with them. Phillips on the other hand, they kill screws constantly, and the bits themselves get all chewed up causing all kinds of problems. Torx bits still look fine though.

Torx aren’t exactly tapered, so they much less of a problem with stripping, compared to any tapered design, because tapered designs have issues with backing off.

Aux ,

small screws in general are just easy to strip

Hexes are very sturdy. I ride mountain bikes and for some reason brake rotors are secured with Torx while all other screws are hexes. Torx on rotors are usually tightened to 4-6Nm and they are single use 99% of the time. At the same time there are plenty of hexes of the same size which are tightened to 8-10Nm and there are zero issues.

Torx are fucking useless. And don’t get me started on tiny Torxes in laptops…

KillingTimeItself ,

you’re not using like, soft fasteners or some shit right?

I could see hex performing better on a softer material. That or you’re doing something goofy. I’d be surprised if torx were stripping at that low of a torque rating, unless ur using hex drivers on them or something.

Aux ,

Fasteners are standard from rotor manufacturers. I have no clue what they’re made out of. But in 30 years of cycling I’ve never had a single Torx which would last more than one cycle of screw in screw out.

KillingTimeItself ,

that’s bizarre. Torx are commonly used in construction with impact drivers, and in vehicles as well. Very rarely are they ever problematic, and that’s with quite significant shock loading as well as torque application in the case of construction, i would imagine more than in a bike, but i wouldn’t be able to say off the top of my head, though they might be bigger standard head sizes, so that could be it.

Regardless, begs the question why hex screws aren’t in construction, those should be simpler and easier to produce.

Tehdastehdas ,
@Tehdastehdas@lemmy.world avatar

The EU should fine companies for introducing new standards that break old standards. Or any shit standards like Toslink: lemmy.world/comment/10671314 . Standardization organizations shouldn’t be sleeping through all this shit.

EddoWagt ,

I never realised how stupid it is that toslink can only plug in 1 way

amenji ,

I don’t use screw drivers enough to know what these are for. But from a programmer’s standpoint, punishing people to deviate away from standard may cause more harm than good, no?

Suppose it’s easier/cheaper/more effective to deviate a bit from standard, why should I be punished to do things a bit differently?

whoreticulture ,

Think about all the micro USB, lightning cables, USB cables etc. In programming it’s different, but for this stuff it’s a waste of money and actual resources.

monotremata ,

One issue is that it can be leveraged to maintain a monopoly. Microsoft famously made a bunch of small modifications to the HTML standard, so that web sites that wanted to work with MS Internet Explorer had to write custom versions to be compatible. But because so many people just used IE because it was bundled with Windows, those “extensions” started to become their own standard, so that then other browsers had to adopt MS’s idiosyncrasies in order to be compatible with the sites, which in turn harmed standardization itself. They even had a term for this technique: “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.” It nearly worked for them until Google pushed them out with Chrome. Microsoft tried to do the same thing again with Java until the government got involved.

It’s complicated, certainly, but there are legitimate cases where “just a little tweak” can be quite a big problem for a standard.

amenji ,

Thanks for the explanation.

Ledivin ,

Why is tamper-resistant torx plus the only one that’s 5-pronged?

Cort ,

Apple?

sus ,

because the goal of tamper resistance is to make it harder to unscrew without apple’s approval

TheRealKuni ,

To make it even less likely that someone will be able to get it unscrewed without having the right set.

They’re not perfect, obviously, but they do harden a target more than regular Torx.

I use tamper resistant screws to keep an AirTag on my eBike to discourage its removal. Obviously a determined thief could remove it, but lots of stolen bikes get abandoned anyway. My hope is that if it gets stolen it gets abandoned and I can find it then.

Ledivin ,

Okay, then a slightly different question: why aren’t tamper-resistant torx (non-plus) 5-prong?

bad_alloc ,

Reject threaded fasteners, return to nail and rivet.

KillingTimeItself ,

my brother in christ have you seen phillips head and posi drive?

Life sucks. You can’t win.

CascadianGiraffe ,

Working on an 86 RV and hating posi drive. I swear they were designed to strip.

Also no mention of Spider drive that everyone insists is a torx

KillingTimeItself ,

probably because nobody buys anything other than torx, considering it’s a brand name, it’s not like they’re going to just do the funny and mislabel a screw. Phillips heads are so common it’s a lot easier to mistake them.

Though if you’re in the field and you run across one i could see it being annoying.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Or Phillips and JIS?

KillingTimeItself ,

JIS isn’t real

Rubanski ,

Torx is the 🐐! Phillips are just terrible, I prefer slotted over Phillips. You can slip out quite easily with slotted but if you are in there they work ok.

BruceTwarzen ,

Phillips are horrible. You need to have 20 different ones that look all the same and you have to try them multiple times to figure out which slip the least. The post and people with no clue make it seem like they make new torx every day to fuck with people. If you have a 15, 20 and 25 torx bit you can use most torx screws out there. If you work on small applications you need a 10 and below. If you use massive screws you ned a 30 and a 40.

Agrivar ,

Torx are superior to all other types. I’ve been a carpenter for roughly three decades, and have suffered through all manner of fastening methods that have come and gone. None of them can hold a candle to Torx. I’ve never seen another type that can resist stripping out so well and for so long.

Thorny_Insight ,

Fellow contractor here. Torx or go home. Drywall screws are the only exception I’m willing to make.

Croquette ,

Where do you buy torx wood screws or torx metal screws?

I’ve never seen any.

currycourier ,

IIRC Spax and GRK make torx multi-purpose fasteners that you can use for wood and metal

Thorny_Insight ,

Most screws sold around here have a torx head

ThrowawaySobriquet ,

Torx should be the default over Phillips for sure. Phillips is fine for shit like access panels or screw terminals. Slotted is useless for anything but the adjustment on pots and thermostats. Robertson is just a proto-torx. Everything else either exists to make someone money or is a bolt

JustAnotherRando ,

How do you feel about square drive? I’m no carpenter, just someone that’s done enough work around the house, but I’ve found that Torx are the best option but square is a close second (but I don’t think I’ve used them in any especially high torque situations, and they may fall short there).

Agrivar ,

Square drive (or Robertson) I consider a close second. They do tend to strip out faster, especially in “softer” fasteners like stainless steel.

thawed_caveman ,

So square is a close second in terms of quality, while being vastly simpler and cheaper to manufacture. Seems to me like i’d prefer square.

Also i’d be terrified of getting dirt in a torx screw, good luck cleaning it to make it usable again. Though i haven’t actually had this problem personally so it’s just a hunch

Agrivar ,

You clearly have no idea how fasteners are manufactured… and you worry needlessly about hypotheticals.

Betty_Boopie ,

I have torx all over my mountain bike that gets caked in dirt, a little bit of water and a pick gets them usable in seconds. I could argue that hex is superior to square but they’re both worse than torx so who really cares.

nickwitha_k ,

Torx, hex, and square/Robertson all require broaching, generally with a rotary broach. The manufacturing process is basically identical, though the manufacturing of the machine tools varies slightly.

John_McMurray ,

Square and Robertson are different. No taper in square

saltesc ,

And a set of Allen keys usually saves a trip to the hardware store if you’re missing the right size Torx bit.

uis ,

Hexes save trip to store when you need torx? How?

hydrospanner ,

Because a hex key can fit (albeit imperfectly) into a Torx opening and loosen or tighten the fastener as needed.

It’s more likely to slip or strip, but it’s better than nothing.

nickwitha_k ,

The opposite is also true.

uis ,

What about hexes?

Leviathan ,

Robertson is superior to all.

altima_neo ,
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

Robertson drive tho

Fuckfuckmyfuckingass ,
@Fuckfuckmyfuckingass@lemmy.world avatar

Least favorite for sure.

nickwitha_k ,

Vastly Superior to Philips, which is vastly superior to blade/slotted for anything resembling a power tool.

KillingTimeItself ,

robertsons are tapered, so unless you get a proper positive lock, or they have dirt in them or something, they’re more liable to stripping out. But other than that, they’re great.

Aux ,

Torx can’t hold shit. They’re single use screws.

militaryintelligence ,

Ah, torx plus, used on Chevy bellhousings. Real easy to strip with a regular torx driver.

weeeeum ,

I repair a lot of tech and I have never seen torx other than the standard, and security version. And security torx drivers are compatible with regular torx

Hugh_Jeggs , (edited )

Use torx all the time on not only building sites, but in machinery repair too.

There’s only one type of torx and I think OP is winding us up :)

Edit - ha ha oh my fucking god. So it turns out the patent for torx expired in 1990. No change for us in Europe, we’re still mostly using the original design.

Not so much for the yanks. Textron, the original patent holder, realised it’d be faaaar more profitable to “licence” slightly improved designs and try to phase out the original

Enjoy your torx my euro friends, and have a giggle at the seppos paying for a fucking screw head lol

Greed to the point of mental illness 😂

renzev OP ,

There’s only one type of torx

There isn’t. There’s Torx, Torx Plus, and Torx Paralobe. See here for more details: www.semblex.com/en/…/torx-paralobe-pdf/ . Plus there’s also the ttap and tamper-resistant variants shown in the meme.

As other people have mentioned, Torx screwdrivers are forwards compatible with Torx Plus and Torx Paralobe. But the screwdrivers for the newer standards are not backwards compatible with older screws.

Similarly, Tamper-Resistant Torx screwdrivers can be used on regular Torx screws. But Tamper-Resistant Torx Plus screwdrivers cannot be used on regular Torx Plus screws – it’s a completely different shape!

If you’re in a professional setting where you order high-quality screws and drivers in bulk directly from a manufacturer, I’d imagine that this isn’t much of an issue. But if you’re a hobbyist or just need to repair something in a domestic setting, the three different torx variants plus the other non-torx hexalobular screws (WA drive, Polydrive, T-Star Plus) can cause quite a bit of confusion. Anecdotally, I have a set of what I thought were really low-quality Torx bits. Turns out, they’re actually good-quality Torx Plus bits that by design don’t fit my Torx screws.

Hugh_Jeggs ,

Yeah that’s just what Big Torx wants us to think man

InternetUser2012 ,

Put timing chains on a Ford v6 without a torx plus 55 and let us know how that went.

candyman337 ,

There’s other types on cars

Annoyed_Crabby ,

I assume all those are proprietary temper resistant, tool for it will be expensive so not many tool shop gonna have it.

scrion ,

Not really. A solid set for security Torx is available for like $20 from reputable brands. Naturally, you can get higher quality sets and sets that add other security bits, but you still won’t land in an unacceptable price range even for private use, let alone a pro shop.

HootinNHollerin , (edited )

Torx plus is getting more common and you can use a torx bit on them still, and superior to torx IMO. I bet you’ve seen since but didn’t notice the difference. As a machine designer it’s my preference but I don’t often for cost

uis ,

Torx plus ultra premium pro

joyjoy ,

Security torx is actually very weak. If you don’t have the security bit, you can break it with a flat head and turn it into a normal torx.

JadenSmith ,

Useful tip: with security torx screws, with the little nub in the centre, if you get a small flathead screwdriver to jam in there and wiggle a bit, that centre bit will snap off without much difficulty.
You should be able to use a regular Torx screwdriver bit after that.

awwwyissss ,

This is really gonna come in handy during some of my heists

HoustonHenry ,

Their only “heists” when you get caught, until then they’re “shenanigans” 😁

Bertuccio ,

It’s easier to just pick up security bits at any hardware store…

lud ,

Yeah, just exclusively buy security bits and stop worrying about it.

Lizardking27 ,

Lmao you’ve clearly never met Philips.

And if you’re advocating slotted screws (flathead) you’ve already lost.

Torx is supreme. The end.

uis ,

Hex is supreme, torx is mental health problem

lud ,

Hex strips itself constantly. Torx never does that.

Leviathan ,

Robertson is superior.

KillingTimeItself ,

sell them in the continental US then >:(

There are basically none here in the 50 states. You can find em, along 50x more torx screws…

Slovene ,

No slot shaming!

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