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mikezane ,

Robinson aka the square head is by far the superior choice.

renzev OP ,

I’m not canadian, so I don’t have a lot of experience with robertson. But from the limited experience that I do have, I would rate it 10/10.

What would you recommend for smaller screws (e.g. for electronics)? As far as I know, there aren’t smaller sizes of robertson like there are with torx?

brap ,

Pozidrive has real nice engagement and doesn’t cam out like Phillips does. And JIS drivers do a better job in Phillips than Phillips ones do.

HakFoo ,

After wrecking some JIS screws on a vintage reciever, I bought a nice Vessel-brand JIS driver set, and use it for all my crosshead needs.

casmael ,

Pozidriv reliably makes me projectile vomit ☹️

Noel_Skum ,

I’ve driven tens of thousands of pozidrive 2/3 screws into timber with an impact driver. For whatever reason my experience is the diametric opposite of yours. Big up the Pozidrive massive.

casmael ,

I absolutely love the amount of strong opinions on screw heads 🙏

Noel_Skum ,

Me too. Nice to see the passion of the construction industry ( and the weekend warriors too)

Thorny_Insight ,

It’s probably because of the impact driver. The bit seats back into the bottom of the slot between every impact. This doesn’t happen with normal drivers.

Noel_Skum ,

People (try to) use a drill driver as opposed to an impact driver? Wow. I now understand why they could have a grim experience… thanks.

Thorny_Insight ,

Philips doesn’t cam out that easily either. Most people just don’t realize there’s three common sizes.

hydrospanner ,

Philips doesn’t cam out that easily either.

I mean…that’s an inherently subjective statement.

But more objectively, regardless of how easily, it’s still the worst of the available options.

RubberElectrons , (edited )
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah but JIS for screws/bolts has been abandoned by the Japanese govt as of… 2005?

My JIS screwdrivers are fantastic, not easy to torque out on a regular Phillips screw. Stick with the “vessel” brand.

E: I can’t find anything more than discussion about it, nothing official. Sorry for the wrong info, looks like JIS screws are still alive.

brap ,

I did not know that, but yes to Vessel!

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

I think I was wrong, see edit. Carry on!

BigDanishGuy ,

LOL sure, good one… Only time that square abomination is the answer is if the question is “what do you get if you put a toddler in charge of designing a poor knockoff unbrako head?”

TEAM TORX REPRESENT!

renzev OP ,

Things are getting heated in the screw fandom

FauxPseudo ,
@FauxPseudo@lemmy.world avatar

As a person that changes out a lot of electrical outlets and switches I have to agree.

Agrivar ,

Found the Canadian.

user1234 ,

*Robertson

HootinNHollerin , (edited )

Its flaw is that you can only get to it in 90deg increments. When the screw is in a hard to reach place that will drive you crazy

daqu ,

https://feddit.org/pictrs/image/001fbaaf-6103-49eb-a304-3a5f1de2ac90.jpeg

weeeeum ,

I repair a lot of tech and I have never seen torx other than the standard, and security version. And security torx drivers are compatible with regular torx

Hugh_Jeggs , (edited )

Use torx all the time on not only building sites, but in machinery repair too.

There’s only one type of torx and I think OP is winding us up :)

Edit - ha ha oh my fucking god. So it turns out the patent for torx expired in 1990. No change for us in Europe, we’re still mostly using the original design.

Not so much for the yanks. Textron, the original patent holder, realised it’d be faaaar more profitable to “licence” slightly improved designs and try to phase out the original

Enjoy your torx my euro friends, and have a giggle at the seppos paying for a fucking screw head lol

Greed to the point of mental illness 😂

renzev OP ,

There’s only one type of torx

There isn’t. There’s Torx, Torx Plus, and Torx Paralobe. See here for more details: www.semblex.com/en/…/torx-paralobe-pdf/ . Plus there’s also the ttap and tamper-resistant variants shown in the meme.

As other people have mentioned, Torx screwdrivers are forwards compatible with Torx Plus and Torx Paralobe. But the screwdrivers for the newer standards are not backwards compatible with older screws.

Similarly, Tamper-Resistant Torx screwdrivers can be used on regular Torx screws. But Tamper-Resistant Torx Plus screwdrivers cannot be used on regular Torx Plus screws – it’s a completely different shape!

If you’re in a professional setting where you order high-quality screws and drivers in bulk directly from a manufacturer, I’d imagine that this isn’t much of an issue. But if you’re a hobbyist or just need to repair something in a domestic setting, the three different torx variants plus the other non-torx hexalobular screws (WA drive, Polydrive, T-Star Plus) can cause quite a bit of confusion. Anecdotally, I have a set of what I thought were really low-quality Torx bits. Turns out, they’re actually good-quality Torx Plus bits that by design don’t fit my Torx screws.

Hugh_Jeggs ,

Yeah that’s just what Big Torx wants us to think man

InternetUser2012 ,

Put timing chains on a Ford v6 without a torx plus 55 and let us know how that went.

candyman337 ,

There’s other types on cars

Annoyed_Crabby ,

I assume all those are proprietary temper resistant, tool for it will be expensive so not many tool shop gonna have it.

scrion ,

Not really. A solid set for security Torx is available for like $20 from reputable brands. Naturally, you can get higher quality sets and sets that add other security bits, but you still won’t land in an unacceptable price range even for private use, let alone a pro shop.

HootinNHollerin , (edited )

Torx plus is getting more common and you can use a torx bit on them still, and superior to torx IMO. I bet you’ve seen since but didn’t notice the difference. As a machine designer it’s my preference but I don’t often for cost

uis ,

Torx plus ultra premium pro

joyjoy ,

Security torx is actually very weak. If you don’t have the security bit, you can break it with a flat head and turn it into a normal torx.

blindbunny ,

I hate torx and my superduke is covered in those fucking things

Cobrachicken ,

I have to admit that each time I saw a torx security screw on a case I had to open (looking at you, Compaq) this made me so angry that I used to punch the middle pin away with a flathead screwdriver, and replace the screw with a regular one later. This was in those past times I did not have a fuckton of assorted torx bits in a gigantic case…

NaoPb ,

Didn’t Compaq use to have those torx with a slit in them where you could put a flathead screwdriver in the slit part?

renzev OP ,

I know HP uses those on some computers. Pretty neat design, if you ask me!

NaoPb ,

Yes I’ve always referred to them as Compaq screws but mainly because I personally saw them on Compaq first. I think HP bought Compaq at some point and that might explain why they are used on both brands. Don’t know which brand started using them first.

I would have rather had they just used Phillips screws but as far as weird screwheads go these aren’t too bad.

At least the good thing about them is the threads are standard and they can be replaced with a Phillipshead case screw just as well.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

I’m with you. I’ve replaced all the torx screws on my Dell with Philips head screws because fuck you Dell. (all the screws inside were already Philips)

rainynight65 ,

Why does Torx Plus have six teeth but tamper-resistant Torx Plus has five? Whereas ‘what the fuck is this’ basically looks like it should be tamper-resistant Torx Plus?

renzev OP ,

I guess they wanted to make the screws even more tamper-resistant? With the standard Torx Tamper-Resistant screws, they could often be bypassed by chiseling the pin away with a flathead and a hammer, and then using a standard Torx driver. Can’t do that with the pentalobular design!

Voyajer ,
@Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

Torx drivers are forward compatible with Torx plus screws

iAvicenna ,
@iAvicenna@lemmy.world avatar

the worst is not when the screwdriver is fucked but the screw is. That is some huge pain in the ass

Maalus ,

Torx doesn’t get fucked though, compared to alan or philips

Somethingcheezie ,

What about square drive… where does it fit in

DrBob ,
@DrBob@lemmy.ca avatar

Robertson! Say his name!

Somethingcheezie ,

I was saying it in Mercian for our southern neighbours

Maalus ,

I’m not american so you wasted it anyways

Silic0n_Alph4 ,

That’s right, it goes in the square hole.

spicytuna62 ,
@spicytuna62@lemmy.world avatar

Fun fact: There are plenty of times a screw that looks like a Philips head is also compatible with a square drive. I’ve mostly seen this on electrical outlets and Ikea furniture.

I don’t know why Robertson/square drives aren’t more common. They’re stable and they resist stripping and rounding.

FrederikNJS ,

You mean Pozidriv?

Test_Tickles ,

Robertson is the proto-torxs. It is a vast improvement over Phillips but has a tendency to snap the head off due to the increased amount of torque you can apply. Torxs maintains the amount of torque that a Robertson can apply, but adds some material back to the head giving it a little extra strength.
It’s really unfortunate that the greed of Robertson and Ford got in the way of such a vastly superior design.

uis ,

That much of material is not much of material.

iAvicenna ,
@iAvicenna@lemmy.world avatar

wait really? I would imagine those small corners would easily get flattened compared to something with deeper ridges like philips

SparrowRanjitScaur , (edited )

Phillips strips way, way easier than Torx. Stripping generally happens when a screwdriver cams out, or pops out of the screw. Here are some excerpts from Wikipedia of Torx vs Phillips.

The hexalobular socket screw drive, often referred to by the original proprietary brand name Torx ( /ˈtɔːrks/) or by the alternative generic name star drive, uses a star-shaped recess in the fastener with six rounded points. It was designed to permit increased torque transfer from the driver to the bit compared to other drive systems. The drive was developed in 1967[44] by Camcar Textron.[45] Torx is very popular in the automotive and electronics industries because of resistance to cam out, and extended bit life, as well as reduced operator fatigue by minimizing the need to bear down on the drive tool to prevent cam out.

And Philips on the other hand:

The Phillips screwdriver design has a tendency to cam out during operation due to angled contact surfaces which create an axial force pushing the driver out of the recess as torque is applied. Despite popular belief,[2] there is no clear evidence that this was a deliberate design feature. When the original patent application was filed in 1933, the inventors described the key objectives as providing a screw head recess that (a) may be produced by a simple punching operation and which (b) is adapted for firm engagement with a driving tool with “no tendency of the driver to cam out”.

I’m not sure about Allen. It doesn’t cam out very much, but it does still strip a lot easier than Torx. Probably due to the smaller contact points.

hydrospanner ,

Well said.

And with the hex/Allen, it’s the small contact points as well as the smaller volume of material that needs to be deformed or removed before slippage can occur, as well as the angle of force on the contact point.

With a hex, the contact point and direction are such that the tool is effectively trying to scrape off material at an angle, and if/when it succeeds even a little bit, it’s now much more prone to fail.

With a Torx, the contact area might still be small, but it’s being applied to the lobe in a more perpendicular direction, so rather than a scraping failure, it’s more of a force that is pushing directly against steel instead of scraping. Not that it can’t fail, but the route to failure is significantly less likely.

Maalus ,

Yeah, it was made with torque in mind (like, it’s in the name lol). For smaller screws using an impact, you can expect to break the screw before you strip the torx on top. And by smaller I don’t mean tiny, more like M4, M5

uis ,

Maybe because different material? Obviously CrV steel won’t get fucked like chinesium, no matter the shape.

KISSmyOS ,

My favorite is round.

nichtburningturtle ,
@nichtburningturtle@feddit.org avatar

Every screw is round if you’re stubborn enough.

InternetUser2012 ,

Or, it’s in the intake of a pro master or transit.

kamenlady ,
@kamenlady@lemmy.world avatar

Unexpected lonesome German

IcyToes ,

We can debate this all day long but we all know torque is cheap.

skulblaka ,
@skulblaka@sh.itjust.works avatar

But enough torque, have at thee!

JadenSmith ,

Useful tip: with security torx screws, with the little nub in the centre, if you get a small flathead screwdriver to jam in there and wiggle a bit, that centre bit will snap off without much difficulty.
You should be able to use a regular Torx screwdriver bit after that.

awwwyissss ,

This is really gonna come in handy during some of my heists

HoustonHenry ,

Their only “heists” when you get caught, until then they’re “shenanigans” 😁

Bertuccio ,

It’s easier to just pick up security bits at any hardware store…

lud ,

Yeah, just exclusively buy security bits and stop worrying about it.

Somethingcheezie ,

Fuck you all!! I’m not arguing about this again :(

But I found this interesting.

thoughtco.com/history-of-screws-and-screwdrivers-…

Xeroxchasechase ,

Plus what?!

HootinNHollerin ,

Torx++

Not to be confused with Torx#

Neato ,
@Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

Why is screw DLC legal? Why are people ok with companies preventing people from working in their own devices?

Olhonestjim ,

Tamper proof is to prevent random idiots from messing with your stuff.

Bertuccio ,

Random idiots that don’t know hardware stores exist

Olhonestjim ,

Once they’re determined to fuck with your stuff, they’re no longer random. It’s just to delay the occasional dingleberry with a multi tool until they get distracted and forget. “Huh, it doesn’t fit. Oh well, Tik Tok it is.”

Corkyskog ,
@Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works avatar

Every lock can be broken. My step grandfather would use tapper proof screws to board up his lake house for winter. Otherwise you risk some drunk ice fishing fuck breaking into your house.

If someone really wanted to get in, it doesn’t really matter what fasteners you use, they would just cut the wood. It just prevents common vandals that happen to have a screwdriver, not determined criminals.

Duamerthrax ,

Tamper resistant torx is still a weird niche. Tamper resistant slotted for bathroom stalls makes sense because a person with a coin could disassemble a whole row of stalls without any effort, but if you’re carrying around a torx bit, you might as well be carrying around a security bit.

For some reason, Ford decided to use Security Torx to hold together their hybrid battery packs. Couldn’t tell you why that was better then regular Torx.

hydrospanner ,

For some reason, Ford decided to use Security Torx to hold together their hybrid battery packs. Couldn’t tell you why that was better then regular Torx.

I’d guess that was some sort of safety standard designed to protect vehicle owners from themselves.

As Torx gets more and more common, it’s presence is less and less likely to be a serious hurdle, so the security screws are a simple way for them to sort of say to the owner “don’t mess with the stuff below this”. If they want to, they still can, but it’s a specific effort at that point…so Ford can say they’ve implemented a safety measure. Might even be some sort of government standard too, where using a less common fastener style brings them into compliance without needing some sort of even less accessible design, like a sealed off system.

nexguy ,
@nexguy@lemmy.world avatar

You can turn a tamper proof screw into a regular screw by using a flat head as a lever and breaking off the center post. Harder to do the bigger the screw is.

lightnsfw ,

Who said we are? It’s up to Congress to regulate things like that and they don’t know shit about fuck. Unless someone “lobbies” them to do it of course.

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