The men vs. bear saga reaches the inevitable conclusion

A_Chilean_Cyborg , 10 days ago

Why you had to bring this up again??? Whyyyy you had to make me remember that was a thing? 😭😭

MacNCheezus OP , 10 days ago

The memes will continue until morale improves

Duke_Nukem_1990 , 10 days ago

Weird how no one asks what the woman was wearing.

lightnsfw , 10 days ago

Looking back, the bacon suit might have been a mistake.

irreticent , 10 days ago

Lady Gaga’s meat dress.

MacNCheezus OP , 10 days ago

You joke, but it does appear that the presence of food was likely what attracted the bear in the first place.

That said, she was also 71 and this happened in her home in a tiny town in the Sierra Nevada where bear sightings are not at all uncommon. No word on how she stored her food or whether she kept her doors locked at night.

MattTheProgrammer , 11 days ago

I bet the bear didn’t rape her first

terry_jerry , 10 days ago

Bear, cat calling from behind a rock,‘’ Let me get in them guts guh’’

Shou , 10 days ago

Or sold her into prostitution for years first.

Sam_Bass , 11 days ago

Yeah ol Dan’l been dead lo, these last 300 years now. Pass the word

Thcdenton , 11 days ago

Oh god not again

MacNCheezus OP , 11 days ago

The memes will continue until morale improves

Cosmicomical , 12 days ago

Statistically insignificant compared to how many women are killed yearly by men.

p.s. it’s just a fact, but I’m sorry for her and if this has anything to do with the man-bear thing it’s a silly way to die.

BurnSquirrel , 11 days ago

xkcd.com/795/

Cryophilia , 11 days ago

That’s not how statistics work. You’d need to compare the rate of encounters between women and bears vs women and men.

That’s a fun central underpinning of the “man vs bear” thing: a lot of people are really really stupid. If 3 women a year encounter bears, and one of them gets mauled, and 3 million women a year encounter men, and two of them get raped, some idiots will claim that men are more dangerous than bears.

SkyezOpen , 11 days ago

Well, see if you can find the bear mauling rate. The rape rate in the US was 40 per 100k. Or to line up with your number, 1,200 per 3 million.

Or, even better, you could comprehend that that’s not the point at all.

SuperSaiyanSwag , 11 days ago

The fact is that it’s hard to get the actual statistic. To truly make the comparison 1-to-1, we need to count how often they are alone in the woods with a bear and how often they are alone with a man. My two cents: if you have been comping enough in bear country then you know that bears are kinda always around and they just don’t bother anyone.

klemptor , 11 days ago

Let’s be real though. If 3 million women a year encountered men and only 2 got raped, we’d never have come up with the man-vs.-bear scenario in the first place.

Cryophilia , 10 days ago

Depends on how much fearmongering the media does. Satanic Panic was a thing, remember.

ChocoboRocket , 10 days ago

Most of the “fearmongering” is actually women talking about their experiences.

When media fearmongers Rape, it’s mostly by informing the public about rapists being sentenced to very light sentences, or rapists facing no jail time, or violent rapists being released.

Either that or they outright victim blame and discuss what someone was wearing, where they were, who they were with etc, basically inferring that if she was safely at home under a man’s protection, it wouldn’t be possible for her to be raped - so look at all the safety she threw away to be reckless (outside without a male partner) and have fun (literally existing while being a woman walking sex organ waiting to be claimed).

Cryophilia , 10 days ago

Most of the “fearmongering” is actually women talking about their experiences.

Most of the “fearmongering” isn’t happening because we were talking about a hypothetical situation where only two women were raped. Fuck you for implying that I don’t think rape is a real thing that happens.

ChocoboRocket , 10 days ago (edited 10 days ago)

You’re previous, brief, comment literally mentioned media fear mongering - apparently it was imaginary media fear mongering tied to an imaginary scenario involving millions of interactions between men and woment and only two rapes (not sure how media fear mongering ties into an imagined hypothetical.)

You are all over the road bud.

I’m saying that it’s not media that’s brainwashed women into believing some Rape bogeyman exists - Imaginary scenario or not.

It’s that every single woman personally knows someone(s) who has been raped/roofied/sex assaulted/groped etc. and they don’t need media hype to come to the conclusion that being raped in any environment is always a possibility. This is a very sad fact that women live with every single day.

Not sure how you perceived that as an accusation that you don’t believe in Rape

Wizard_Pope , 11 days ago

Also insignificant to the amount of women killed by other women, or the amount of women that fall down the stairs and break their neck. It being a single death from a bear attack with bear encounters being rare in the first place makes this compariosn meaningless.

Emmy , 12 days ago

The other side of the story meets its inevitable conclusion too.

Least the bear only killed her. /s

psmgx , 12 days ago

Oh it’s this stupid meme again

TrickDacy , 12 days ago

I don’t get it

FlyingSquid , 11 days ago

There was a video (or videos?) asking whether women would rather meet a bear while alone in the woods or a strange man and a lot of women in the video said the bear. The point was to illustrate how women feel unsafe around strange men because even if they don’t try to physically assault them, many of them expect sexual gratification as a transaction for helping them and get abusive when that doesn’t happen.

But then a bunch of people didn’t get it, and a few loud ones just hate women and turned it into a debate that it wasn’t ever meant to be.

RiikkaTheIcePrincess , 12 days ago

Versus how many fatal man attacks? Not even gonna look it up 🤷

Dunno how this is conclusiv- ohhhh right, confirmation bias. Forgot about that. grumbles noisily

MacNCheezus OP , 12 days ago

Well, if we’re going to be pedantic, then this is not a valid comparison to make because it ignores the number of total encounters with bears and men, and the time spent with each.

LesserAbe , 12 days ago

If we want to get really pedantic we have to look at stats specifically for cases where a woman was in the woods, with no other entity besides a man or a bear. With it conveniently being impossible to compile that information, I’d bet the ratio of assaults per encounter would be higher with the men than the bears.

Shiggles , 12 days ago

Absolutely depends on proximity, and probably how close we are to (bear) mating season. And type of bear, for that matter. If we’re including all men with no restrictions, it’s only fair to include all bears too, right?

LesserAbe , 12 days ago

Lol, did anyone say we were limiting to a certain type of bear? Is there some specific species you think will really turn the tide statistically?

Shiggles , 11 days ago

Polar bears will in fact just kill you and eat you. Grizzlies, very likely to be territorial. Black bears are the most “cowardly”, but all three will fuck you up to protect their young, hence why the season matters.

I haven’t exactly done the math on relative bear populations to tell you if your odds are better with a random bear or a random man, but it doesn’t matter, you wouldn’t consider any of my statements valid even if I wrote a whole ass thesis.

LesserAbe , 11 days ago

Think the spirit of my comments may not be making it through - I’m not seriously making a statistical argument, was just responding to the other commenter saying let’s get pedantic.

Ultimately, women feel how they feel, and if they say they’d rather be stuck in the woods with a bear than a man, there’s no sense in arguing with them.

What would success there look like, you convince a woman “no, you’re not concerned about the intentions of strange men in the woods”?

If a woman says “I’d rather be stuck in the woods with a bear” we should receive that as information. That’s telling us that many women have serious concerns about their safety with men. And instead of telling them “no you’re wrong for feeling how you feel” a better response could be “sorry you’ve had bad experiences” or even just saying nothing.

Shiggles , 11 days ago

It’s saying that and it’s saying they have no concept of the dangers of wildlife. But everyone takes addressing the latter as ignoring the former, when they’re two separate conversations only combined by the dumb analogy.

LesserAbe , 11 days ago

Do you think any woman who says this would intentionally go up to a bear in the woods? There’s not a need for education about the dangers of wildlife. That’s not the conversation being had, so people who try to talk to a woman about that in this particular context (online meme) are missing the point.

Malfeasant , 11 days ago

Black bears are the most “cowardly”, but all three will fuck you up to protect their young

Eh, not really… Black bear cubs are quite capable of climbing trees, the mother will definitely make her displeasure known to you, but it’s mainly for show.

Source: I once unwittingly startled a mama black bear and her cubs, ended up falling flat on my back so I was quite vulnerable, she could have easily torn me apart if she wanted to, but she just charged at me, stopped about 6 feet away grumbling, stomped the ground, and clacked her teeth at me. The cubs were up their trees faster than squirrels.

Allonzee , 12 days ago

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/941b2482-c12a-4111-ae38-14c492ab9cef.gif

MamboGator , 12 days ago

I never understood this debate. Of course a woman would feel safer with a large gay man at her side.

Speculater , 12 days ago

I think what bothered most men wasn’t that he was large, but that a woman would feel safer with any gay man that was with them.

Sanguine_Sasquatch , 12 days ago

As a sasquatch, I’d feel safer around a gay man

NoIWontPickAName , 12 days ago

I’m going to need to know what kind of sanguine you are.

ETA: added need to

Sanguine_Sasquatch , 12 days ago

I’m the sanguine kind of sanguine

NoIWontPickAName , 12 days ago

I mean, as a dude, I damn sure would feel safest around lesbians if I was worried about that.

Idk what like the girl animal “equivalent” of a bear would be, except one that I am not quite sure if it is offensive or not.

Fucking queer is super accepted now, but then I watch my daughter, who has dated women before, and is not shy or ashamed, and I do believe is still fine with doing so in the future, call her brother or someone on YouTube gay as an insult.

Mrderisant , 12 days ago

The current “equivalent” I’ve seen is would you rather share your emotions with a tree or a woman.

Karyoplasma , 12 days ago

A tree. Inanimated objects are good listeners.

NoIWontPickAName , 12 days ago

Tree, but I have anxiety issues and trees don’t trigger them

Mongostein , 12 days ago

A tree isn’t going to use those emotions you shared when your were feeling down against you when she gets mad that you forgot to unload the dishwasher two months later 🤷🏻‍♂️

Sonotsugipaa , 12 days ago

Yeah, but do you know how dangerous a tree is? It will eat you alive without mercy

Glemek , 11 days ago

Nonono, we had this discussion about the snake yesterday: the tree kills you by dropping a limb on you long before it eats you.

feedum_sneedson , 10 days ago

Exceptional woman over average tree. Average tree over average woman. Exceptional tree? Not sure.

GiveMemes , 12 days ago

I’m bi and call stuff I don’t like ‘gay’ all the time. I also call stuff I like ‘gay’. I don’t think that the use of a term by those it applies to can really be negative as its more of an empowerment thing abt takibg the word back for the community. It’s like getting mad at people that call each other the n-word (especially if you aren’t black yourself).

Iheartcheese , 12 days ago

I’m bi and only chubby… Where do I fall in this?

MamboGator , 12 days ago

I think chubby bisexuals are classed as “pandas”

Iheartcheese , 11 days ago

I do like being punched in the face…

FlyingSquid , 11 days ago

That’s because it wasn’t meant to be a debate, it was meant to illustrate a point.

People who didn’t get it and people who did get it but didn’t like it (i.e. misogynists) turned it into a debate. The latter also proved that point with the large number of rape and death threats.

The_Terrible_Humbaba , 10 days ago

Yeah, god forbid people get angry when others make sexist remarks! They must be real misogynists for not liking sexism!

If you replaced the “man” with “black man” or “black person”, or if someone said this with immigrants, it wouldn’t need to be explained to you or anyone why this is a pretty fucked up thing to say, but for some reason when it’s just “man” it’s okay and anyone who disagrees is a misogynist, according to you. If I made a general frustrated remark about women, plenty of people would take issue with it, and I don’t think you’d would be saying “it wasn’t meant to be a debate, it was meant to illustrate a point”, would you?

How about just stop using sexist rhetoric? There are a lot of people on your side who would agree with you if you just dropped the needlessly sexist and divisive rhetoric.

And before you get there - and if not you then I’m sure someone will think of saying it - yes, it’s true that the world and system we live in isn’t as hostile to men as women, black people, and immigrants, but progressive spaces definitely tend to be the opposite. And believe it or not, that actually has an effect with pushing younger men into the arms of the alt right; you can insult them and just call them fascists if you like, but that doesn’t change the reality that young hormonal men going into progressive spaces and seeing this kind of rhetoric will feel excluded, pushed out, and like the world is against them.

FlyingSquid , 10 days ago

See above re: people didn’t get it.

By the way, what is “my side” and what would they agree with me about?

The_Terrible_Humbaba , 10 days ago

Gr8 argument m8!

Should be pretty clear if you actually bothered to read it, but I’ll spell it out for you: P-R-O-G-R-E-S-S-I-V-E-S; and overall people who acknowledge the experiences of women that this is supposed to highlight. And I am also on that side, I just think you’re doing an absolute shit job of it, being needlessly discriminating, and creating division - as I already explained.

FlyingSquid , 10 days ago

Okay, how would you illustrate this that wouldn’t cause a huge amount of controversy and misogyny?

The_Terrible_Humbaba , 10 days ago

By just highlighting the experiences of women in the society we live in, and all the sexual violence they fall victims to, and how much violence is specifically directed at women - without resorting to cheap inflammatory “memes” (*). And as another way to a solution, we can also just try to be and create good role models for young men.

(*)And saying that has actually reminded me, that’s usually exactly how the far right likes to act and spread their message too: inflammatory rhetoric that can make a catchy sound bite that will reach a lot of people, but which has no real depth to it. I’d rather not those tactics and actually try having real conversations.

FlyingSquid , 10 days ago

You think that doesn’t result in threats of violence and rape too? Really?

The_Terrible_Humbaba , 10 days ago

What are you talking about? When did I even say anything like that? Of course they will still get threats, the point is what is the best way to move forward, raise attention to these issues to bring about a better society, instead of making the situation worse, which is what I think your behavior does.

I’m really not sure if you’re even engaging in good faith and I’m not gonna spend all day on this, so this will be the final thing I’ll say:

I think that meme is unnecessarily divisive and will cause the average man (at least young man/teenager) who stumbles into it to feel attacked, and even more so when accused of either “not getting it” or “being a misogynist”; and in a time when they are just a couple clicks away of falling into and alt-right pipeline that will acknowledge their feelings and tell them the left/progressives have it out for them, it’s really unproductive to use rhetoric like that, which can make them feel “othered” and part of an out group.

FlyingSquid , 10 days ago

I’m sorry, but if a “debate” like this is all it takes to turn someone into a redpilled incel, they were going to become one anyway and we have much bigger problems.

The fact is that women get attacked just existing in an online space and a scary amount of men feel threatened any time a woman speaks up for herself. Because that’s patriarchy. When the power structure is threatened in any way, No matter what example a woman gives, no matter how hard she attempts to not be divisive, there are still a bunch of men who feel threatened by her suggesting that any man may possibly pose a threat to a woman because they take it personally.

And they will feel ‘othered’ because the patriarchy has raised them to believe they are the superior humans because of their gender and any suggestion that some men may do the wrong thing where women are concerned is an explicit threat to them personally. And the whole point of this is that a woman doesn’t know whether the strange man she encounters in the woods will do the wrong thing. There’s just no way to know whether or not a man will assault her. People can claim that’s true about strange women as well, but, again, that’s missing the whole fucking point. Again, though, the point will be missed no matter how diplomatically it is put because it challenges the patriarchy.

The_Terrible_Humbaba , 10 days ago

Okay, this comment was the best so far and actually seemed to care to make a point/converse, so I’ll make just one final reply.

Your first sentence might be true for older men, or men who are already “allies” to put it simply, but it’s simply not true for younger men, and again it’s also just unhelpful and pushes people away. Overall, it makes you sound like you care more about being angry and being right, than actually helping to make society better. Not that I don’t understand that feeling by the way, I’m just saying it’s unhelpful and not constructive.

And yeah, off course there will always be some men who will feel threatened anyway when people raise the issue, but the question is how many feel threatened and “othered” in one situation versus in the other situation. I mean, I’d hate to fall from a ladder, but I’d rather fall from a short ladder than a tall one; does that make sense? I’d rather you go with the option that will push less young men into the arms of people like Andrew Tate, rather than the one that will push the most just because you’re angry and want to make your point in the most brutish way possible.

And they will feel ‘othered’ because the patriarchy has raised them to believe they are the superior humans because of their gender and any suggestion that some men may do the wrong thing where women are concerned is an explicit threat to them personally.

They feel “othered” because the meme is inherently sexist, and if they complain they get called sexist. Again, imagine if instead of “men” this is talking about a marginalized group and the problem becomes explicit. Just because men are not a marginalized group in society, does not mean that the same feelings are not evoked in them when confronted with such rhetoric.

FlyingSquid , 10 days ago

You make a lot of good points, but where I am stuck on is the idea of blaming these videos (especially the initial ones, not all the reactions) for people falling off that ladder and becoming an incel. That takes years of grooming and if they were at that point, something was going to push them over sooner or later.

Also, maybe it is sexist for all of those women to find strange men more threatening, but it doesn’t change the fact that a large number of women do feel that way and maybe it should be explored why instead of criticizing them for it.

homicidalrobot , 10 days ago

You should look into the origin of the word meme. It’s not terribly old and you clearly don’t understand it. You’ve also gone and thrown away your benefit of the doubt by arguing semantics on what’s clearly meant to be a lighthearted and hyperbolic comparison. Propping up random ideas and putting them, as words, in someone else’s mouth is dumb as hell. Pretty sure there’s hundreds of places online where you can argue with other people who don’t know the difference between socratic and aristotelean logic.

The_Terrible_Humbaba , 10 days ago

You managed to say a lot without really saying anything. And when did I argue semantics or put words in someone’s mouth?

I’m not gonna go through this entire conversation again, so I’ll just link you my last comment which should sum up my thoughts relatively well.

homicidalrobot , 10 days ago

Dumbass lmao

The_Terrible_Humbaba , 10 days ago

Ok 👍 😘

brown567 , 12 days ago

I highly doubt it was the first fatal bear attack in California

Other sources I’ve found specify that it was the first fatal black bear attack, and that it happened before the man vs bear debate XD

wesker , 12 days ago (edited 12 days ago)

Would you rather encounter a black bear or a… you know what, nevermind.

shalafi , 12 days ago

Given that Grizzlies are extinct in California, yeah.

What about Brown Bears though?

ZagamTheVile , 12 days ago

I think brown bears and grizzlies are the same. If I remember right, they just live in different places.

Karyoplasma , 12 days ago

They are. Both are Ursus arctos which is a funny name because it’s just bear bear, once in Latin and one in Greek.

CptEnder , 11 days ago

Yeah grizzlies extinct in CA? That doesn’t sound right.