Thanks for sharing your story! In the spirit of creating content, I have a similarly opposite story.
I was raised Mormon, for those that don’t know, having a large family is a given. In my early 20’s I left all religion behind and began to create a life I wanted rather than one expected. I was a mess trying to establish my own morals, values, and goals.
At the same time of all this, I started dating a girl who had left Mormonism many years earlier. She was also childfree. Living with her, she provided the best environment for me to discover the life I wanted. She was my rock when I had no one else, literally. She was patient, understanding, and provided a much needed perspective from having a similar history. We dated for several years as I slowly deprogrammed and came into my own.
Coming back to the point of all this- a big struggle was trying to figure out whether I wanted kids, I was programmed to want kids, or didn’t want kids at all. This is a life changing decision after all. In the end, I realized I wanted kids because I wanted kids. The girl I was dating was supportive but with our incompatible lifestyles, we parted ways and remain good friends.
As for today, I married someone else (who also escaped Mormonism!) and have 3 kids. Because of the support I had, I now have the confidence to trust in myself and a healthy foundation to further understand myself as life changes.
I have a similar story with Mormonism except mine diverges. At age 28 I got a vasectomy. Years later, I have never been married and still don’t have kids and am happily childfree, programming defeated, woohoo!
Side note, and just to be clear this is not an attack: you have 3 kids but are in a childfree community. Why?
Congratulations on getting out!! Life is so much more vibrant living on your own terms :)
Man, my comment is 10 months old, I bet I stumbled in here from All. I prefer using All and blocking communities I’m not interested in instead of using Home where I only see what I’m subscribed to. Staying in Home doesn’t let me see interesting posts like this one!
This happened to me in the USA. I told the doctor I want to be sterilized and neither my husband nor I wanted kids.
He told me it would be unethical. My husband might die and then my new husband would want children. I told him I would not change my mind, and such a man would be incompatible for marriage with me. He told me I’d change my mind. So basically, yes some hypothetical future man would want to use me for a baby factory, that’s why I can’t be sterilized.
I was 30. I’m older now, still don’t want them. I’m too ashamed to ask again for sterilization. My husband has a vasectomy scheduled soon (weird how a doctor had no problem doing that for him. Wonder what the difference is???)
I think the doctor thinks of your husband as a baby factory manager and as he wants the baby factory out of operation it is his choice. Now if he died a new manager could start up the factory again. I know this is extremely fucked up and there is no reason you should not be able to get sterilised but it is a fucked up world we live in.
Easier said than done, anyway. I was just shocked he said that. I’m sure if I wanted his statement in writing he would have written something like “I don’t recommend this for women who have not yet had children because there are plenty of other effective treatments like [etc]” and nobody would care.
Someone at my work was told something similar by a different doctor (in a different state!) that he wouldn’t sterilize her because she wasn’t married. She had 3 children already in her mid twenties.
Pushing back on this stuff is a battle that shouldn’t have to take place on the personal level. We’re going backwards in women’s healthcare in America, too.
When I got sterilized, the doctor asked me if I was in a committed relationship. Told him I was. Then he said that I need to treat this as permanent. Told him it wasn’t a problem. He pushed a little more but inevitable told him that if things changed and I ended up with a woman who wanted children, adoption was an option. That ended it for me, and I was able to get the procedure done. I don’t know if this is typical for men, but that was my experience.
I got a vasectomy when I was 31 and have never looked back. Would highly recommend it if you’re committed to being child free. Was a simple discussion with my (male) GP and after a few questions to make sure I understood the implications and that I had thought it through he gave me the referral.
I really feel bad for women - they have so much more stigma and a harder time with this in general, even in progressive countries.
My mom knows that I absolutely do not want kids. Like, the idea of being a parent makes me feel physically ill. She is still hoping that she’ll get grandchildren. Last time she told me she’s still hopeful that I’ll change my mind, I got rude and told her to fuck off with that shit. I told her that she needs to keep that kind of thing to herself and that telling me that repeatedly feels very disrespectful.
That was about 6 months ago. She hasn’t brought it up since. This branch of the family tree ends with me and that’s totally fine imo. Everything has to end eventually. My mom’s in total denial about that fact.
I’m 58, child free. I think it depends on the reasons you don’t hand kids ? If its just so you can party, those reaosns will likely change.
My first wife and I were on the same page, so I had a vasectomy, she didn’t need to be on the pill,.albeit her reasons for CF were differnt to mine. I didn’t want them mainly for ecological reasons, too many people on a small planet, that has only become more urgent since, so those reasons haven’t changed, if that makes sense ?
My current parter had 2 kids from a previous marriage but she had them young and they were grown up, moved away to other cities with thier own lives when we hooked up. She loves then dearly and is proud of them but has said she’d never have had kids knowing what she knows now.
I could always have adopted, the world is full of unwanted kids, no need to bring more into the world.
I have some sense of where you are coming from. I remember having mixed feelings when a friend of mine said they were trying to conceive with their partner: happy for them, but also sad knowing the friendship would probably change, and bad for feeling sad.
I also have to commend you for understanding that you need friends beyond your boyfriend/girlfriend. Not everyone understands this!
Indeed. Your friends will hopefully have family or other friends who can be on sitter duty. What’s important is you don’t disappear just because they’ve got kids.
Stick the kids birthdays in your calendar. Set reminders. Get the kids gifts. Be that uncle.
Across my family and friend group, I’m an uncle to 10 kids and I’m all of their favourite as I’m the cool uncle (it’s amazing what Lego can do for favour).
And with that, I still see my friends all the time. We don’t get blackout drunk but I see that as an age thing rather than because they’ve got kids. And because the kids know me, my partner and I are invited over to everyone’s places regularly; kids are in bed by 7 and then we get to hang for the evening.
Additionally, if you want to be the best friend you can, when a friend has just had a kid, pop over with some cooked meals (some ready and some for the freezer), being disposable cutlery and plates, and some empty trash bags, and feed your friends. Bundle the trash into the bags and take it with you. You have no idea how much a meal and no waking up after will mean to two very tired friends.
I do it every time. I aim for around a week of meals if I can (chili, curry, soup, all freezes well and easy to make loads of).
There will be a day when the kids are self sufficient and your friends will be wanting to be far more social again but if you can’t be a friend in the mean time, they won’t be knocking on your door afterwards.
Being child free is a personal choice. It’s also a choice to support those who want to have children. In my opinion, it’s the best of all worlds. I have my friends, I have no kids, but I also have a positive impact on my friends’ kids’ lives (coding, maths, science, music). It’s pretty nice.
One of those kids bought my partner and I massive German beer glasses (my partner is German) and we drink out of them daily. Kid used their own pocket money too. It’s a nice feeling knowing my world and friend group continues to grow as I age, rather than shrink.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It seems you have found a sweet spot that works well for your life, and you sound like a good friend. I get the impression that you enjoy a kid’s company far more than I do, though. I generally get exhausted around them and the stressful lives their parents lead, and I don’t actually want to be a part of this. Which is a me-problem, I know. I fully agree with you when you say that they will probably not be knocking on my door when they are ready to be social again, but it sounds like a very one-sided effort to maintain a friendship in the meantime. My friends mostly move out of the city back to where they grew up as well, so just popping over with a meal is not always possible. I have myself moved elsewhere for work now, partly because the number of friends still staying in the city I lived in before had greatly diminished.
I used to go on mountain hikes with my best friend from my childhood once a year (we’ve already lived in different cities for a long time, so we haven’t really been hanging out for many years), but he’s awaiting twins anytime now, so it’s going to be at least some years before it will be possible for him to even consider spending any vacation days on such a trip. I used to have yearly cabin trips with friends from university until they got all got kids approximately at the same time (during COVID). They now go on kid-friendly family vacations together. I used to frequent restaurants with a fellow foodie. We sometimes still do, but it’s gone from maybe once a month to once every two years. It is these kinds of relationships that I miss.
Everyone has a different feeling towards kids and you’re in no way required or in the wrong to not be interested in being around them. And you’re right, it can be one sided, but I have noticed the friends I made an effort with have been far more social (especially once the kids are two or so) than those I didn’t make an effort with.
It might be worth going out of your way and looking for friends who are child-free, and if you can’t find the place or space, maybe be the one to make it.
I’ve friends in my town who are child-free through choice and I have friends nearby who are child-free due to being unable to conceive and not wanting to adopt. I’ve also plenty of LGBTQ+ friends who the vast majority are also child-free and want to stay that way. They’re out there. But it might mean you need to come to terms with letting your oldest friendships fade while you seek out new ones.
It could be as easy as going out and doing the things you enjoying and finding people your age there (or prehaps a little older since if they’re child-free and doing those things, or have kids but still do them, that’ll gel better with you).
Really appreciate the honest and open discussion with you in this thread. I hope you’re able to find your people and to live the life you want for yourself and your partner.
I have a friend who has one kid and another on the way. At this point for traveling. He worked out a deal with his wife that he can travel on a big trip once a year until the kids get older. Before he had kids we would typically go on large backpacking trips multiple times a year.
I’ve noticed so far that it’s mainly scheduling. If you can get something written into their calendar. Then the kids don’t need to come along. Depending on the parents of course. In my experience if I can talk to my friend and sit down and pick a date and get onto the calendar. Then he can typically go on more smaller trips. Allowing him and his wife to plan for grandparents to come and support while he’s gone.
But if the parents aren’t into that. There’s nothing you can really do.
Right, nothing I said should be taken as gospel. In my opinion it’s just what naturally happens with good friends. There’s no way around it. The kids end up getting to know you. I have zero clue as to what you’re so offended about. I honestly doubt you have any friends anyway and are just arguing to be arguing.
I have zero clue as to what you’re so offended about.
People like you, actually.
So childfree people should mark in their calendars the crotch goblins’ birthdays and buy presents for them? Become “uncles”? That kind of commitment to children is what we’re avoiding, for crying out loud.
And, despite your ill will, my friends are many, and most of them are childfree or have grown children, and our shared activities are, excluding very rare occasions, devoid of infants.
That uncle role is not something I am looking for, though. I am after adult relationships, and it is the loss of these I am saddened about. For the record, I do not blame neither the parents or especially their kids for this change. They do not owe me a continued adult relationship for our entire lives. It is completely up to them to pursue this life, and as I said, I am happy for them as long as this is what they really wanted, and I agree that their kids should be their priorities once they have had them. But so far, in my experience, the kind of relationship becomes completely different. For instance, my girlfriend and I were invited over for dinner to one of my close friends from my twenties, his wife and their two kids. After we left, we were both left with a feeling that we hadn’t talked with them at all - we were interrupted constantly by their kids seeking their parents attention. Some parents handle this better - I know others who are better at setting boundaries for their kids and teaching them to not interrupt and wait for their turn, but the interactions with them are still very different - their lives almost entirely revolves around their kids. I was once involuntarily part of a conversation regarding the color and viscosity of kid’s shit.
When I reread my original post, I realize it could be interpreted like I want to somehow get things back to how they were before. I know they won’t be, and it’s not what I meant. I was simply after real stories (i.e. not imagined solutions) of how people in a similar situation, having experienced a similar loss of close friendships, ended up with either new, great friends with a similar outlook on life or anything else that improved that part of their life.
I’m sorry to tell you, the real solutions to keeping friends after they have kids are what you’ve said you don’t want. So, for you, it looks like you’ve already decided you don’t want to be friends with people who have kids. That leaves you with a much smaller pool of people and in an age bracket where it’s much more difficult to meet people.
Maybe try finding hobbies that don’t have kids in them.
Well yeah for someone who literally hates kids and wants to cut off their friends because of it. It wasn’t a suggestion. It was what another good friend would naturally do/become to another good friend. It doesn’t come with anything that you need to do. There’s no responsibilities. You’d just be around so often that’s how the kids would begin to look at you.
Some cultures use uncle/aunt pretty freely for any older family friend who was around a lot. I remember my mom was “auntie” to lots of kids when I was younger but there was no obligation or anything its just a term of endearment to a close older woman.
I don’t like kids, I have a few friends with kids, some of them really like me, if it were up to me I’d prefer if the kids they didn’t even know I exist.
That said, I value my friendships with their parents. Having a good relationship ship with their kids means my friends get to stay in my life. If I don’t have a decent relationship their kids, that limits how much I can see with my friends, and if I’m particularly rude, antagonistic, etc. toward them they may choose to cut me out of their lives entirely. It’s a matter of whether you like your friends more than you dislike kids.
If your dislike of kids outweighs how much you value your friendship, I think that can be a valid position to have, but it should probably also raise some questions about whether you value your relationship with your friends enough for it to be worth continuing, and/or whether you have some unresolved issues with kids that you may need to address.
If I never had to see my friends’ kids again, that wouldn’t bother me one bit. If I didn’t get to see my friends for years, that would bother me, and for now at least, my friends and their kids are going to be a package deal, so in my case it’s an easy cost/benefit analysis. I value my friends more than I dislike their kids, so I’ll tolerate their little crotch-goblins.
I specifically object to the “becoming an uncle” part. This includes special attention, gifts, considerations well beyond what I’m willing to give even to my own non-immediate family. Visiting my friends and acknowledging, even interacting with the kids superficially, that’s more than OK. But they are not my family and they’ll never be.
How they view you and how you view them are not necessarily symetrical. Some of my friends’ kids definitely view me in sort of a familial way, like a favorite uncle, I don’t return that sentiment, but it doesn’t make their view of me any less valid. I’m not giving them any gifts or any more attention than is strictly necessary.
Many of us do view our close friends as a sort of family, I’m much closer to a lot of my friends than I am to some of my family members, it wouldn’t be wrong to say I think of some of them as sort of extra siblings and favorite cousins. I also have relatives I don’t particularly like and try to avoid, but still have to play nice with at family functions, and the kids kind of fall into that category. They’re sort of like the racist uncle, the spoiled cousin, the bitchy new fiance, or the drugged-out family fuck-up. They’re part of the package deal with the rest of the family, but if they just vanished one day I wouldn’t be too broken up about it.
You mentioned in another comment having lots of uncles. Your family never gets together? No holidays, weddings, funerals, birthday parties, family reunions, etc?
If that’s the case, I don’t really see your opposition to being an uncle, it apparently comes with no added obligations in your family.
You mentioned in another comment having lots of uncles. Your family never gets together? No holidays, weddings, funerals, birthday parties, family reunions, etc?
Very rarely, and it doesn’t involve any obligation. My mother’s side of the family is in another country, and I’m not close with my father’s side. Besides, nobody is entitled to my time by default.
If that’s the case, I don’t really see your opposition to being an uncle
Words have meaning. Implying a relationship of any kind with kids when I despise them is insulting.
I think this makes sense. Firstly, respect your friends have children. Then, decide how to interact with them now that its what is happening.
If you want a regular, often relationship, having the ability to talk with the whole household on some level just seems sensible. They live there too; the kids are a person even if not a fully experienced one. Being an Uncle or an Aunt can be fun, or just be civil and honest. Ask stuff, field questions and above all don’t be a dick.
The alternative is just to catch your friends when they’re free. This might be rare or very occasional. That sucks but its their right to raise a family. The kids are dependant on your friends and your friends need to make sure they’re OK. It requires patience and understanding. Possibly a little ingenuity.
In my experience, many parents will enjoy some time away from their kids every so often. If they want it, they’ll find a way. And older kids will enjoy sometime where their parents aren’t hovering over them. Either a weekly event or occasional times out might be possible to be carved out.
From my own Mother’s words: your entire world shifts to revolve around your kids when they arrive. I would say you’d need to understand that and act appropriately.
My dad best friend and his wife are child free. When my dad started having kids they continue to see each other regularly but instead of going out to restaurants or bars the friend was “inviting my parents for dinner, in their own home”.
So he would come home with food, prepare dinner for us. It was a great way of doing it.
Most people of that age group raise kids. This has been normal for as long as humans exist. If you derive from the norm, you simply have to live with the consequences.
Turning onself into the pink monkey is not always a good survival strategy.
Has nothing to do with diverging from the norm. If OP had kids he’d have the same problem. If anything it would be worse because he wouldn’t have time for anything other then dealing with their kids.
What a poor contribution to the thread… I am well aware of the consequences, and I am highlighting one specific consequence that I am seeking advice on how to deal with. I am specifically asking for stories from people who have had good success either maintaining adult friendships despite divergence in lifestyles, or establishing new adult friendships. Your comment brings nothing to the table.
I interpret your last comment as “going with the flow” in order to “survive”. If that is a strategy that somehow brings you fulfillment in life, good on you. I am very comfortable with my choice of not having kids, but as with everything, there are trade-offs, and I’m just looking for ways to navigate those. As the commenter below pointed out: the situation would be worse if I had kids myself, as I would anyway have to forego the kinds of adult interactions I’ve described (and am missing), and I would instead rely on enjoying the new type of children centric interactions. I sincerely doubt I would.
The problem is, everything literally will revolve around their kids. Want to get together and watch the game? Sorry, all day cocomelon party on tv now. Want to sit around a fire and chat? Sorry, too dangerous for the kids. Just want to sit and chill? Sorry, the kids will be running through the house screaming. Want to hit the new, trendy restaurant? Sorry, we need a place with chicken nuggets on the kids menu. Want to just have a conversation? Sorry, the only thing they can talk about is their kids now. Want to just get together? Sorry, I’ll have to hind time between the playdates/dance/gymnastics/sports/whatever the kids have scheduled.
Sure, maybe that isn’t always the case, but it often is.
This hasn’t been my experience with friends with kids. They’re mostly babies and toddlers right now but I mean a kid can be supervised around a camp fire. And most kids are in bed at like 830 and then you can hang for a few hours of adult time. It seems to me that they get enough of their kids and are happy to talk about grown up shit for a while when I see them. And any of my friends who like sports have got their kids watching sports with them since they were tiny. Those kids know the hockey game is staying on.
Its a bit harder to hang out but honestly I find I see them as much as my child free friends. Its just hard to find mutual time off in general now that we all have jobs and live apart and shit.
It’ll be easier for them to get baby sitters when the kids are a bit more selfreliant when they’re a bit older too. But you do have to get some child free friends too, like not too many of my friends with kids are going to be hitting up too many music festivals with me for a while I reckon.
This hasn’t been my experience with friends with kids.
Perhaps it is not everyone’s experience, but it is a common experience.
And most kids are in bed at like 830 and then you can hang for a few hours of adult time.
No. I hit the bed not long after. I go to work early and try to be in bed by 10. I am not waiting up all night just because that is the only adult time you can find.
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