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How do you deal with the poor and desperate around you? (Homeless or some stranger who is in an utterly helpless position)

I am low on money these days and my life is hell for it. I have to do with substandard everything in my life I recently had an incident where an elderly woman asked me for money while roaming the street with her family begging for money. I had no money to spare, but had I had any, I wouldn’t have given a penny to her (Life is tough, I can’t give away money I didn’t earn)

But, she later said something which melted my heart, “Majboori hai beta!” (Hindi) “We don’t want to do this, but we have to do it son” (now add some emotional value to it), I didn’t know what to do, I was on my cycle and I could feel their eyes on me as I passed them and I just peddled faster with teary eyes.

I didn’t know how to deal with that. i.e., I don’t have enough money for medical necessities or to improve the standard of living of my own life, but I was being asked to spare change by a poor family that was demonstrably in a worse spot than me.

I was always taught that if you give beggars money, they will spend it all on alcohol (not blaming them), and given the number of beggars who have come to be smelling like alcohol and death with wobbly balance, it has been a rule not to provide them with money. Also, let’s not forget, if you’re really poor (homeless and have nothing to lose) and you are really desperate, you are often dangerous i.e., not someone around whom your kids can roam, again, not blaming them. But… I don’t know what is right or wrong in this situation!

How do you deal with external problems you can’t solve around you? What is the moral thing to do here?

edit: This kinda reminds of a story about Jesus where a prince once came to him and told him that he isn’t at peace with himself no matter what he does, and Jesus told him that to get peace he must give away everything to the poor and follow Jesus around and the prince refused (something along those lines).

I know what the most moral thing might be in this case, but even if you tell me that I should give money to those who live in abject poverty, I probably won’t do it as often as I should.

nokturne213 ,

I volunteer at a food bank once a week. The woman who runs it knows I encounter a lot of homeless camps while hiking with my dogs, so she has me take care packages to deliver to some of them. We are having a very hard time getting can openers, which sucks because so much food we give out is canned. I try and buy any can openers I see at the flea market. But have also purchased a dozen for people in the last few months.

weeeeum ,

The hand crank can openers aren’t the only kind, there are also cheap, stamped sheet metal can openers with a blade. These are more fiddly but extremely cheap, and do the job.

Here’s some army surplus that’s 50c a pop

www.armysurplusworld.com/p38-can-opener?variant=2…

SpaghettiYeti , (edited )

Yes, you beat me to it.

@nocturne shoot me a message on where you’re at. Depending on the country, I may be able to help and send you a hundred of these can openers linked above.

Edit: Give me the food bank’s address please.

nokturne213 ,

Never got a notification you tagged me. Next time I am at my laptop I will send you a message (I cannot see a way to send messages on Mlem)

ClassifiedPancake ,

I believe everyone will just take advantage of my generosity and so I don’t even bother.

anarchoilluminati ,
@anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net avatar

Genuinely wondering, what does that even mean? How do you think a person who is homeless or poor would “take advantage” of $5 or food you give them?

Subject6051 OP , (edited )

It adds up. Especially if you are in a populated city.

I am not saying most homeless people dupe you into giving them money which they later use for exotic stuff, but many do. I really am not blaming them, maybe drugs are the only relief they have in their lives, I don’t know, but I can’t refute the argument that that money would do more damage than good.

ClassifiedPancake ,

In Germany a lot of „homeless“ people are part of some group of scammers and they might even pickpocket you or follow you around.

anarchoilluminati ,
@anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net avatar

Fair enough and thanks for answering. I know that can happen sometimes but, honestly, most people are just struggling. They’re not all out to get you.

ClassifiedPancake , (edited )

Problem is you can’t know and that’s why I’m afraid.

But I’m generally not very trustful, so it’s not just homeless people.

Subject6051 OP ,

But I’m generally not very trustful

Does it say anything about the German culture or is it just you?

ClassifiedPancake ,

I guess it’s also very German

TheButtonJustSpins ,

If someone tricks you out of $20 by saying they need it, that says bad things about their character but good things about yours.

communism ,
@communism@lemmy.ml avatar

Just treat them like a human being instead of like a streetlamp or something. Speak to them. Ask them how they’re doing (I know the answer is probably “shit” but still, let them talk about it if they want to). I know it’s tempting to just ignore them because saying you don’t want to or can’t give them money is awkward, but imagine being in that situation, how humiliating it must be to sit on the floor, literally beneath everyone, grovelling to strangers. Show them the same humanity you’d expect to be shown if it were you on the floor. Even “sorry, but no” is better than being ignored. Maybe chat to them about their day or something if you can’t or don’t want to give money. Help look up the location of a local soup kitchen or shelter or something if they don’t have a phone. If they’re recently homeless you may be able to give them legal advice in terms of getting a roof back over their heads (I say “recently” bc in some places an eviction notice can be used to access social housing, if the eviction was ages ago they might not have the relevant documentation anymore).

And also frankly, when I do give money to homeless people, I don’t care if they spend it on drugs. If I’m giving someone money I’m giving them money. It’s their money now. I wouldn’t tell you how to spend your money, and I wouldn’t tell a homeless person how to spend their money. If they ask for help to overcome their addiction I’d do my best to signpost them, but I’m not going to force them if they don’t want it. If what they want is drugs then they’re going to get that one way or another, if not with money people gave them out of charity then through stealing or something else.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Just treat them like a human being instead of like a streetlamp or something. Speak to them. Ask them how they’re doing (I know the answer is probably “shit” but still, let them talk about it if they want to).

I mean, it sounds nice on paper, but at least in the West a non-trivial percentage are so mentally ill average Joe can’t really be their friend effectively. Using judgement is recommended.

communism ,
@communism@lemmy.ml avatar

How many homeless people have you spoken to? Of course everybody is different so treating someone like a person may look different depending on their circumstances, but the principle still applies, including towards homeless people with severe mental illnesses.

And also that’s just not my experience tbh. Both from speaking to homeless people on the streets, and also when I was in prison I met a lot of the typical types of people who would end up street homeless, including people who were street homeless prior to being incarcerated and people who were street homeless and mentally ill, and they’re still people. I managed to form good friendships with a lot of them. I don’t know, possibly you have genuinely tried to interact with homeless people and you’ve hit a brick wall, but in my own experience that’s just an assumption or first impression people have and not the reality if you just try talking to them for a few mins.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Hmm, where I live it’s more frequently people living in decrepit buildings than properly homeless. The one guy that actually wanders around just doesn’t talk. I heard him say “yup” once, in a situation where he was pretty much forced to. I’ve had less than positive experiences with rough-looking people. Other times it’s been fine.

This is me regurgitating what I’ve heard from actual professionals.

ratboy ,
@ratboy@hexbear.net avatar

Care to explain what you mean by “actual professionals”?

CanadaPlus ,

People like you, shrinks. Do you disagree?

ratboy ,
@ratboy@hexbear.net avatar

I’m not a shrink lol I’m a case manager.

I disagree with the idea that so many homeless are so mentally ill that conversing with them isn’t worth it. It should take the most minimal ability to read human behavior to see when someone is having a hard time and you shouldn’t engage but there are many who don’t experience persistent psychosis who you can talk to, or at least give a nod and hello.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Yes, to be clear that was a list. I’ve heard both chime in, online at least. In real life I think the only relevant conversation was about what a therapy session looks like when your client is homeless.

I didn’t mean ignore them - they’re still humans, OP is right about that. I said use judgement. I can totally see a younger version of myself Kool-Aid man-ing into a random homeless person’s life and expecting I can be their best buddy.

When I encounter them now, I treat them like every other stranger. I think I’m doing the right thing.

ratboy ,
@ratboy@hexbear.net avatar

Lolllll Kool-Aid man! That’s fair, I’m so used to people automatically dehumanizing homeless people (thanks reddit) that I’m ready to throw hands when the conversation comes up lol. I appreciate you being rational

EABOD25 ,

Give what you can afford. That varies from person to person, and timeframe, but if you truly have nothing to give, then you have nothing to give without impacting your own existance. Plus if you’re a person living off of people’s kindness and get mad when people have nothing, then they aren’t the problem

Subject6051 OP ,

but if you truly have nothing to give, then you have nothing to give without impacting your own existance.

But I say to myself, if I ever give a little, it’s not gonna have much material impact on their life. i.e., I am not easing their misery for more than an hour! Also, there are many of them, how will I choose whom to give and whom not to? edit: But it’s gonna take away stuff from me, I don’t spend a rupee when I don’t have to.

Is give when you feel like it and when you can (I think you would say yes to this) a good idea?

MorrisonMotel6 ,

Easing someone’s misery for an hour IS EASING SOMEONE’S MISERY.

And maybe the physical thing you provide to that person may only last for an hour, but the memory of something a kind person did for them will (hopefully) persist as well

Subject6051 OP ,

Easing someone’s misery for an hour IS EASING SOMEONE’S MISERY

You are right! I must not think like that.

serenissi , (edited )

And maybe the physical thing you provide to that person may only last for an hour, but the memory of something a kind person did for them will (hopefully) persist as well

I don’t know if you have been in India but I have. Begging has become a profession there. So most likely they won’t recognize individual donors. Also what OP mentioned is a real problem. Easily you’ll meet more than 20 homeless people at once around you in any big railway station.

From what I understand, shitty politics and rising inequality is the reason behind this.

ArbitraryValue ,

I’m not sure how someone could live in a big city without learning to just walk past beggars without making eye contact. I know I sound like a terrible person when I say that explicitly, but it’s what almost everyone actually does. Most other people just don’t want to admit it (to others, and maybe to themselves).

pelespirit ,
@pelespirit@sh.itjust.works avatar

That’s not true in Seattle at all for homeless or down and out. In my experience, it’s only for people who are acting erratic or sketch. We have a newspaper (Real Change) that people sell that makes it easy too. I just give them money and don’t take a paper because I can read it online if I want.

Subject6051 OP ,

We have a newspaper (Real Change)

of all things you say, that’s the most surprising. Local news papers are becoming a thing of the past for some reason. Next time maybe buy that newspaper, I mean, Local news papers, the remaining ones, are on life support.

pelespirit ,
@pelespirit@sh.itjust.works avatar

I pay for it, I just read it online. It’s written by the people selling and talks about their lives and issues. It’s pretty great.

www.realchangenews.org

RBWells ,

As you should? You can’t think like that. In a religious sense, sure. If you have two coats you stole one from the poor, to paraphrase Dorothea Parker.

But in real life, it’s more like the airplane advice, put on your air mask first then help others with theirs. In an absolute sense you will be able to give more if you take care of yourself. If you only have $2 and give someone $1 of it you are an angel, but if you can make more and feel comfortable giving $10 that is more helpful to someone.

You didn’t create this problem, you just live in it, and you can’t single handedly fix it. Take care of yourself and give as you can, and speak out when you can.

xilliah ,

There’s ways to help without sacrificing what little you have to yourself. A simple greeting and acknowledgement go a long way. Don’t be afraid to interact and to just say no, I’ve never had a bad experience with that.

You could provide information, or something that’s often needed. For example get a large pack of white long diabetic socks and hand those out. If you’re homeless you often can’t take off your shoes, so you’re always wearing them. The socks change color if something is wrong.

Personally I don’t mind it if someone spends money on drugs or alcohol. I’d do the same thing in their position. It’s best to just be kind and respectful.

But if it really bothers you then go for gift cards or just go shopping with them. Giving food without asking is generally not so helpful. Also keep in mind that in a lot of places people need a bit of actual cash to actually be able to sleep somewhere. For example here in the NL it’s 7.50 a night. So even if you are bothered by the potential drug usage, just think of the chance that they might just as well spend it on sleeping in a safe and warm place.

howrar ,

I get the impression that many drug dealers would be happy to take gift cards as payment.

xilliah ,

That’s a good point.

schmorpel ,

Improve your local community in other ways. Or give in other ways. Not sure what would apply in your local community - I live in rural Western Europe and that’s very different from what you describe. People here set up donation boxes, swap shops, create food banks, organize markets, create safe spaces for minority groups, community gardens … mostly volunteering time. Not sure you are in the position to do this? Sorry things are so heartbreaking. I hope we all figure this out soon.

Subject6051 OP ,

People here set up donation boxes, swap shops, create food banks, organize markets, create safe spaces for minority groups, community gardens … mostly volunteering time

In India, we chain the jugs we use in toilets of rails and I have seen banks tie their pens to walls, so, we can’t have nice things when we’re so goddamn poor and have 0 civic sense or a bad culture :(

But it sounds pretty nice! I have heard of Swiss honest boxes where people self-checkout and pay for the items they are taking away from the shelves, there are no cameras, there is no one keeping watch, but the whole system depends on trust! When I told my rich well-to-do Indian friend about this and how it would never work over here, she said “yeah, I would just take away stuff and not pay for it” (kinda made my blood boil, this is why we can’t have nice things lol)

PS: Thank you very much for your well-wishes! Means a lot! :)

hanrahan ,
@hanrahan@slrpnk.net avatar

and I have seen banks tie their pens to wall

That used to be a thing in Australia decades ago, then they changed and used it as a marketing tool encouraging people to take the pens, then the closed the banks branches.

I have no answers, that you’re thinking about it puts you in front of 80% of the world.

fubarx ,

Years ago, I used to live in a neigborhood just down from what they called ‘the projects.’ Those who couldn’t get into Section 8 housing would spill over onto the streets. One time we had a pretty harsh cold snap. Several people died. A few of us started buying tents, sleeping bags, and blankets from Costco and handing them out to those camping on the sidewalks or side streets.

Now, we live in an area that has pretty good food and housing non-profits, so we donate to them every year. I generally don’t give to individuals, hoping our donations, aggregated with others, will reach more people in need.

During COVID, a local non-profit with an urban garden set up an outdoor fridge and pantry for those sleeping around the perimeter. The non-profit would load it up with any excess produce. But word got out and people started donating, usually leftovers from restaurants. We started going to discount grocery stores and buying bulk foods and stocking up the fridge once a month. Took the kids and had them do the stocking up, just to normalize it.

We’re beyond lucky not to be in that situation and feel strongly that we should help where we can. Paying it forward and all. I don’t think anyone who is pinched should feel bad, but those who can afford it, should.

We’ve never mentioned any of this to any friends or family. I only bring it up here, hoping more people feel inspired to step up.

Subject6051 OP ,

I generally don’t give to individuals, hoping our donations, aggregated with others, will reach more people in need.

I think that’s a good rule, but it’s not for everyone, i.e., People actually would like to see their money do good, (it’s easier to see a thankful smile on someone than get a digital message on a website) and let’s not forget, people would have to do their own research before donating, because let’s be honest, there so many scammy non-profits made to make money for their corporate overlords (not to mention the conversion rate), if a non-profit is separately pooling money for administration expenses, I would be more likely to trust them. Also, rest of the comment is pretty nice, thanks for the comment!

BevelGear ,

I’m on the fence about giving money to homeless people on the streets, but am all for donating to / volunteering for organizations that help them.

My reason starts with how organized and strategic they can be. For example, I was waiting at a bus stop downtown and there were three homeless people planning out which intersections they were splitting to next and how they were going to divide the total afterwards.

Second example in downtown. There’s a guy begging for food in the mall, so I take him to the nearest food stand, we both order a meal, and eat at a table. He was talking about his plan to get off the streets and all and went back to refill his drink after eating. During that time, I went to the cashier for something and she told me he’s with a few others that come back pretty regularly. When we get back to the table, he then tells me that he needs $10 for a place to stay for the night and then leads me to the nearest atm. Once we’re there, I tell him everything the cashier told me and he doesn’t say anything with an “ok you caught me look”. I still give him the money even though he knows that I know he’ll be back doing the same thing.

I know this is is not the case for all homeless people, such as the meal I had with one with mental disabilities, but it’s a mixed bag. Just do what you can and don’t feel bad if you can’t.

schmorpel ,

Why should the homeless have no right to organize? It’s funny that the only places with (rough but efficient) functioning self-organization I could find so far were among the homeless and the small folk. Those with stuff left to protect are too much up their own arse to want to play well with others.

Also, the plans to get off the street are real, most of the time. Every kindness you show is a seed that one day will point towards the right direction.

I’ve been hanging out with the homeless as a kid, and lived on the streets for a few months as a young adult, travelling and panhandling. I met many very kind, and often very damaged people. They are on the streets because it’s for a variety of reasons the only option they can manage, not because they enjoy scamming you out of a few coins and do nothing all day.

If you are concerned about your money look at the suit wearing people, most of it ends up with them.

BevelGear ,

Form my perspective, if they can strategize maximizing income, that will eventually lead to them getting a job. I don’t carry cash, which is why I take them to eat, but when I do, I just didn’t know where it would go.

If what you’re saying is true, I’ll then reconsider.

BEWARE ,

I only believe in DTA, Don’t trust Anybody. I just ignore them. My life is enough suffering for me.

Subject6051 OP ,

I only believe in DTA, Don’t trust Anybody.

Username checks out

My life is enough suffering for me.

I would probably able to sympathize more than an average Joe to that.

apotheotic ,

Homeless folks aren’t implicitly dangerous or alcoholics or drug addicts (and for the latter two, that’s not reeeaaally your business). Many will turn to substances to ease the suffering in their lives, which is their business and their business alone.

Your 5 bucks isn’t going to turn their life around or ruin it, even if they use it in the absolute best or absolute worst way. But it can ease their suffering, however they choose to use it.

That said, if you don’t have the money to keep yourself and your loved ones at some minimum threshold of “life” then please, don’t feel guilty for not being able to give monetarily. You can acknowledge that guilt, feel it, and let it pass by. Ultimately the system is the thing that is failing them, not you.

If you find yourself without monetary means of supporting the homeless or impoverished, but you want to contribute to the lessening of their suffering, see if there’s any volunteering you can do in your local area that seeks for the betterment of their circumstances. Often your time and your energy are worth far, far more than any extra money you might be able to donate.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Set aside a budget of time, energy and money to help social causes, spend it as wisely as you can, and give a hard no when someone asks for more.

You mention the alcohol thing, which is fair, although as others note it’s best to withhold judgement. At least where I live there’s charities you can give money to instead, which will use it to buy things like food, fuel and clothing which they can then pass along. Pro tip: I’d go with a smaller charity, since big ones sometimes get top-heavy.

TheButtonJustSpins ,

Vote for politicians who support UBI.

Subject6051 OP ,

AMEN!

robot_dog_with_gun ,

you misspelled socialism. ubi and landlords can’t coexist.

GarbageShoot ,

tl;dr I don’t have an answer for your problem, but I have some thoughts on it that hopefully might contribute to you finding an answer.

I think it’s probably bad to think of the homeless, etc. as being drug-addled and especially as being dangerous. Usually, if they do have a drug problem (especially alcoholism) it came after becoming homeless and not before, and functions as a way to self-medicate to ease the pain of their terrible conditions. There is, of course, a strong correlation with mental illness that they are often also self-medicating, but “mentally ill” does not mean the same thing as “dangerous”. You probably don’t want to have them as a baby sitter, but that’s much more because of mental illness impairing their ability to care for others (and often themselves) rather than there being a realistic chance they would actually hurt the child directly.

People, religions, politicians, corporations and so on speak of charity as a great thing, and it’s certainly not a bad thing, but there being a need for charity for people to survive is a symptom of a system that doesn’t care for a substantial portion of the population that lives in it, and typically brutally exploiting those people. Charity is like a bandage, it can help to tend to a wound that has been inflicted, but we must ask “Why is there a wound in the first place? What inflicted it? How can it be prevented?” Your society, like mine, is organized in part to hurt these people in order to exploit them. No amount of charity can change that fact, only a change in social organization can change it.

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