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How do you deal with the poor and desperate around you? (Homeless or some stranger who is in an utterly helpless position)

I am low on money these days and my life is hell for it. I have to do with substandard everything in my life I recently had an incident where an elderly woman asked me for money while roaming the street with her family begging for money. I had no money to spare, but had I had any, I wouldn’t have given a penny to her (Life is tough, I can’t give away money I didn’t earn)

But, she later said something which melted my heart, “Majboori hai beta!” (Hindi) “We don’t want to do this, but we have to do it son” (now add some emotional value to it), I didn’t know what to do, I was on my cycle and I could feel their eyes on me as I passed them and I just peddled faster with teary eyes.

I didn’t know how to deal with that. i.e., I don’t have enough money for medical necessities or to improve the standard of living of my own life, but I was being asked to spare change by a poor family that was demonstrably in a worse spot than me.

I was always taught that if you give beggars money, they will spend it all on alcohol (not blaming them), and given the number of beggars who have come to be smelling like alcohol and death with wobbly balance, it has been a rule not to provide them with money. Also, let’s not forget, if you’re really poor (homeless and have nothing to lose) and you are really desperate, you are often dangerous i.e., not someone around whom your kids can roam, again, not blaming them. But… I don’t know what is right or wrong in this situation!

How do you deal with external problems you can’t solve around you? What is the moral thing to do here?

edit: This kinda reminds of a story about Jesus where a prince once came to him and told him that he isn’t at peace with himself no matter what he does, and Jesus told him that to get peace he must give away everything to the poor and follow Jesus around and the prince refused (something along those lines).

I know what the most moral thing might be in this case, but even if you tell me that I should give money to those who live in abject poverty, I probably won’t do it as often as I should.

EABOD25 ,

Give what you can afford. That varies from person to person, and timeframe, but if you truly have nothing to give, then you have nothing to give without impacting your own existance. Plus if you’re a person living off of people’s kindness and get mad when people have nothing, then they aren’t the problem

Subject6051 OP ,

but if you truly have nothing to give, then you have nothing to give without impacting your own existance.

But I say to myself, if I ever give a little, it’s not gonna have much material impact on their life. i.e., I am not easing their misery for more than an hour! Also, there are many of them, how will I choose whom to give and whom not to? edit: But it’s gonna take away stuff from me, I don’t spend a rupee when I don’t have to.

Is give when you feel like it and when you can (I think you would say yes to this) a good idea?

MorrisonMotel6 ,

Easing someone’s misery for an hour IS EASING SOMEONE’S MISERY.

And maybe the physical thing you provide to that person may only last for an hour, but the memory of something a kind person did for them will (hopefully) persist as well

Subject6051 OP ,

Easing someone’s misery for an hour IS EASING SOMEONE’S MISERY

You are right! I must not think like that.

serenissi , (edited )

And maybe the physical thing you provide to that person may only last for an hour, but the memory of something a kind person did for them will (hopefully) persist as well

I don’t know if you have been in India but I have. Begging has become a profession there. So most likely they won’t recognize individual donors. Also what OP mentioned is a real problem. Easily you’ll meet more than 20 homeless people at once around you in any big railway station.

From what I understand, shitty politics and rising inequality is the reason behind this.

mecfs , (edited )

I give. But also I talk, I listen, I don’t toss a coin and ignore.

I genuinely take the time to talk to someone. If they seem nice, safe, and don’t strike me as being “impulsively dangerous”, I might invite them to share a meal with me, or to a café.

Obviously I can’t do this for everyone, but when I’m low on money like you, I might literally just invite someone to my home and make them a piece of toast, ask them what their day to day is like, if it sounds like they need an old blanket, give them one if I’ve got a spare.

TheButtonJustSpins ,

Vote for politicians who support UBI.

Subject6051 OP ,

AMEN!

robot_dog_with_gun ,

you misspelled socialism. ubi and landlords can’t coexist.

ArbitraryValue ,

I’m not sure how someone could live in a big city without learning to just walk past beggars without making eye contact. I know I sound like a terrible person when I say that explicitly, but it’s what almost everyone actually does. Most other people just don’t want to admit it (to others, and maybe to themselves).

pelespirit ,
@pelespirit@sh.itjust.works avatar

That’s not true in Seattle at all for homeless or down and out. In my experience, it’s only for people who are acting erratic or sketch. We have a newspaper (Real Change) that people sell that makes it easy too. I just give them money and don’t take a paper because I can read it online if I want.

Subject6051 OP ,

We have a newspaper (Real Change)

of all things you say, that’s the most surprising. Local news papers are becoming a thing of the past for some reason. Next time maybe buy that newspaper, I mean, Local news papers, the remaining ones, are on life support.

pelespirit ,
@pelespirit@sh.itjust.works avatar

I pay for it, I just read it online. It’s written by the people selling and talks about their lives and issues. It’s pretty great.

www.realchangenews.org

ratboy , (edited )
@ratboy@hexbear.net avatar

So I work full time with homeless people who deal with mental illness and substance use issues.

If you are struggling with surviving yourself, you can only do what you can do. This world is fucked up and you shouldn’t be struggling, and those people on the street shouldn’t be in that position either, and it always seems like the burden to assist the poorest in our society is put on to other poor people, because we can actually understand what it’s like at least a little.

There may be times when you can only spare some change, other times maybe 5 or 10 dollars. Other times, nothing at all. If you have the ability at all, even the smallest amount can be helpful even if you don’t think it will be. But, if you feel hesitant, don’t beat yourself up for it. You thinking of giving ANYTHING AT ALL means you’re doing more than most people would.

Also, I think it’s important to try to let go of the moralistic thinking when it comes to people using the money for alcohol or drugs. People end up using drugs because of mental illness, people gave told me that at least when using they feel like they HAVE a reason why theyre hearing voices and seeing shit and its in their control.Because they lost their job due to becoming disabled and doctors won’t prescribe painkillers so they have to find something to numb the pain on the street. They were a foster kid who got kicked out with nothing, no family or friends and we’re physically and mentally abused for years so using drugs is the only way they know how to cope.

Another very real story I heard recently as to why someone drowned themselves in liquor for 15 years is because his nephew was playing hide and seek and hid under a pile of clothes in a closet. A fire started in the house; he was searching everywhere for the kid, and was digging and digging but couldn’t pull him out before the firemen forced him to leave. So he had to stand there and watch as his nephew burned alive because the firemen would not go back in to get him. You don’t know someone’s story and why they got to where they are. If you don’t want your money going to drugs or alcohol, you can make the choice to not give anyone money on the off chance that they happen to have a substance use issue, but remember they are people too with a lot of trauma.

some_guy ,

My father once gave a guy a bill (currency) that surprised me and I asked if the drugs / alcohol possibility bothered him. He told me that if the guy humbles himself so much as to ask then he clearly needs it and that if he needs a bottle to get through the night then who was my dad to judge. It had a pretty profound effect on me.

Don’t beat yourself up if you can’t afford to donate. I’ve gone dumpster diving for food and picked fruit from trees and bushes under cover of night. I couldn’t donate a penny in those times because I was counting cents to buy small bits of food. Sometimes you just can’t take on more responsibility.

Now that I have a lot of comfort, I try to give as much as I reasonably think I can because I believe that if I’m able then I should. For instance, I will never turn down a request to buy someone a meal and I hand out cash in larger denominations than I think people expect depending on the circumstances I observe. But I still don’t give money to just anyone. If someone seems sleazy or like they’re trying to con me (it’s subjective), I’ll decline. And again, I don’t feel bad about it when intuition tells me that I should decline because I genuinely want good things for people and I know that about myself; in other words, I trust myself not to be a dick.

One other item: I once bought a woman a sandwich even though she kinda had an entitlement attitude. I got asked for money by a guy a block up the street and declined. He was rude to me as a result. I yelled fuck you at him because what he said to me deserved it. He had no way of knowing that I’d just given $20 to a stranger, but that didn’t make it acceptable for him to say what he said and I feel no regret about giving him a piece of my mind in response.

That you’re thinking about enough to ask strangers on the internet suggests that you have a good moral compass. Just try to pass along some help to others when you’re better situated in the future. It’ll be fine.

Hikermick ,

I’ll give to our local food bank. The money goes a lot farther than if I give it to someone who spends it on junk food at the corner store.

I used to ask for spare change when I was younger. Never poor, just young and hitchhiking around for fun. It’s fun to have little interactions with strangers. Don’t give money away that you can’t afford to give and don’t feel bad about it. You can give them respect and dignity just by talking to them. Yeah there are plenty of scammers out there, if you gift something to someone it’s out of your hands. Don’t get too butt hurt if you see them with a forty in a paper bag later. If they’re not pushy I’ll hand them a twenty sometimes just to see the look on their face.

nokturne213 ,

I volunteer at a food bank once a week. The woman who runs it knows I encounter a lot of homeless camps while hiking with my dogs, so she has me take care packages to deliver to some of them. We are having a very hard time getting can openers, which sucks because so much food we give out is canned. I try and buy any can openers I see at the flea market. But have also purchased a dozen for people in the last few months.

weeeeum ,

The hand crank can openers aren’t the only kind, there are also cheap, stamped sheet metal can openers with a blade. These are more fiddly but extremely cheap, and do the job.

Here’s some army surplus that’s 50c a pop

www.armysurplusworld.com/p38-can-opener?variant=2…

SpaghettiYeti , (edited )

Yes, you beat me to it.

@nocturne shoot me a message on where you’re at. Depending on the country, I may be able to help and send you a hundred of these can openers linked above.

Edit: Give me the food bank’s address please.

nokturne213 ,

Never got a notification you tagged me. Next time I am at my laptop I will send you a message (I cannot see a way to send messages on Mlem)

DessertStorms , (edited )
@DessertStorms@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

How do you deal with external problems you can’t solve around you? What is the moral thing to do here?

You don’t, you deal with your internal problems, like classism, ableism, and general ignorance of these people’s circumstances. Instead take the time to understand, learn empathy, show compassion and solidarity, instead of disdain. You don’t have to give people money you don’t have, but the least you can do is show them basic respect (no, homeless people aren’t all alcoholics or addicts, but many of those who do drink or use drugs do so to try and ease the deep distress of being homeless. And no, homeless people aren’t dangerous, those who create a society where they have to exist to keep people like you in line, are). (Edit to clarify: once you care about homeless people, rather than fear and/or look down at them, and understand the many reasons that lead to homelessness, you’d be equipped to actually tackle the systemic issues, but you can’t do that if you refuse to see them)

You are literally a blink of an eye away from being in their shoes, act like it.

BEWARE ,

I only believe in DTA, Don’t trust Anybody. I just ignore them. My life is enough suffering for me.

Subject6051 OP ,

I only believe in DTA, Don’t trust Anybody.

Username checks out

My life is enough suffering for me.

I would probably able to sympathize more than an average Joe to that.

ClassifiedPancake ,

I believe everyone will just take advantage of my generosity and so I don’t even bother.

anarchoilluminati ,
@anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net avatar

Genuinely wondering, what does that even mean? How do you think a person who is homeless or poor would “take advantage” of $5 or food you give them?

Subject6051 OP , (edited )

It adds up. Especially if you are in a populated city.

I am not saying most homeless people dupe you into giving them money which they later use for exotic stuff, but many do. I really am not blaming them, maybe drugs are the only relief they have in their lives, I don’t know, but I can’t refute the argument that that money would do more damage than good.

ClassifiedPancake ,

In Germany a lot of „homeless“ people are part of some group of scammers and they might even pickpocket you or follow you around.

anarchoilluminati ,
@anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net avatar

Fair enough and thanks for answering. I know that can happen sometimes but, honestly, most people are just struggling. They’re not all out to get you.

ClassifiedPancake , (edited )

Problem is you can’t know and that’s why I’m afraid.

But I’m generally not very trustful, so it’s not just homeless people.

Subject6051 OP ,

But I’m generally not very trustful

Does it say anything about the German culture or is it just you?

ClassifiedPancake ,

I guess it’s also very German

TheButtonJustSpins ,

If someone tricks you out of $20 by saying they need it, that says bad things about their character but good things about yours.

GarbageShoot ,

tl;dr I don’t have an answer for your problem, but I have some thoughts on it that hopefully might contribute to you finding an answer.

I think it’s probably bad to think of the homeless, etc. as being drug-addled and especially as being dangerous. Usually, if they do have a drug problem (especially alcoholism) it came after becoming homeless and not before, and functions as a way to self-medicate to ease the pain of their terrible conditions. There is, of course, a strong correlation with mental illness that they are often also self-medicating, but “mentally ill” does not mean the same thing as “dangerous”. You probably don’t want to have them as a baby sitter, but that’s much more because of mental illness impairing their ability to care for others (and often themselves) rather than there being a realistic chance they would actually hurt the child directly.

People, religions, politicians, corporations and so on speak of charity as a great thing, and it’s certainly not a bad thing, but there being a need for charity for people to survive is a symptom of a system that doesn’t care for a substantial portion of the population that lives in it, and typically brutally exploiting those people. Charity is like a bandage, it can help to tend to a wound that has been inflicted, but we must ask “Why is there a wound in the first place? What inflicted it? How can it be prevented?” Your society, like mine, is organized in part to hurt these people in order to exploit them. No amount of charity can change that fact, only a change in social organization can change it.

communism ,
@communism@lemmy.ml avatar

Just treat them like a human being instead of like a streetlamp or something. Speak to them. Ask them how they’re doing (I know the answer is probably “shit” but still, let them talk about it if they want to). I know it’s tempting to just ignore them because saying you don’t want to or can’t give them money is awkward, but imagine being in that situation, how humiliating it must be to sit on the floor, literally beneath everyone, grovelling to strangers. Show them the same humanity you’d expect to be shown if it were you on the floor. Even “sorry, but no” is better than being ignored. Maybe chat to them about their day or something if you can’t or don’t want to give money. Help look up the location of a local soup kitchen or shelter or something if they don’t have a phone. If they’re recently homeless you may be able to give them legal advice in terms of getting a roof back over their heads (I say “recently” bc in some places an eviction notice can be used to access social housing, if the eviction was ages ago they might not have the relevant documentation anymore).

And also frankly, when I do give money to homeless people, I don’t care if they spend it on drugs. If I’m giving someone money I’m giving them money. It’s their money now. I wouldn’t tell you how to spend your money, and I wouldn’t tell a homeless person how to spend their money. If they ask for help to overcome their addiction I’d do my best to signpost them, but I’m not going to force them if they don’t want it. If what they want is drugs then they’re going to get that one way or another, if not with money people gave them out of charity then through stealing or something else.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Just treat them like a human being instead of like a streetlamp or something. Speak to them. Ask them how they’re doing (I know the answer is probably “shit” but still, let them talk about it if they want to).

I mean, it sounds nice on paper, but at least in the West a non-trivial percentage are so mentally ill average Joe can’t really be their friend effectively. Using judgement is recommended.

communism ,
@communism@lemmy.ml avatar

How many homeless people have you spoken to? Of course everybody is different so treating someone like a person may look different depending on their circumstances, but the principle still applies, including towards homeless people with severe mental illnesses.

And also that’s just not my experience tbh. Both from speaking to homeless people on the streets, and also when I was in prison I met a lot of the typical types of people who would end up street homeless, including people who were street homeless prior to being incarcerated and people who were street homeless and mentally ill, and they’re still people. I managed to form good friendships with a lot of them. I don’t know, possibly you have genuinely tried to interact with homeless people and you’ve hit a brick wall, but in my own experience that’s just an assumption or first impression people have and not the reality if you just try talking to them for a few mins.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Hmm, where I live it’s more frequently people living in decrepit buildings than properly homeless. The one guy that actually wanders around just doesn’t talk. I heard him say “yup” once, in a situation where he was pretty much forced to. I’ve had less than positive experiences with rough-looking people. Other times it’s been fine.

This is me regurgitating what I’ve heard from actual professionals.

ratboy ,
@ratboy@hexbear.net avatar

Care to explain what you mean by “actual professionals”?

CanadaPlus ,

People like you, shrinks. Do you disagree?

ratboy ,
@ratboy@hexbear.net avatar

I’m not a shrink lol I’m a case manager.

I disagree with the idea that so many homeless are so mentally ill that conversing with them isn’t worth it. It should take the most minimal ability to read human behavior to see when someone is having a hard time and you shouldn’t engage but there are many who don’t experience persistent psychosis who you can talk to, or at least give a nod and hello.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Yes, to be clear that was a list. I’ve heard both chime in, online at least. In real life I think the only relevant conversation was about what a therapy session looks like when your client is homeless.

I didn’t mean ignore them - they’re still humans, OP is right about that. I said use judgement. I can totally see a younger version of myself Kool-Aid man-ing into a random homeless person’s life and expecting I can be their best buddy.

When I encounter them now, I treat them like every other stranger. I think I’m doing the right thing.

ratboy ,
@ratboy@hexbear.net avatar

Lolllll Kool-Aid man! That’s fair, I’m so used to people automatically dehumanizing homeless people (thanks reddit) that I’m ready to throw hands when the conversation comes up lol. I appreciate you being rational

apotheotic ,

Homeless folks aren’t implicitly dangerous or alcoholics or drug addicts (and for the latter two, that’s not reeeaaally your business). Many will turn to substances to ease the suffering in their lives, which is their business and their business alone.

Your 5 bucks isn’t going to turn their life around or ruin it, even if they use it in the absolute best or absolute worst way. But it can ease their suffering, however they choose to use it.

That said, if you don’t have the money to keep yourself and your loved ones at some minimum threshold of “life” then please, don’t feel guilty for not being able to give monetarily. You can acknowledge that guilt, feel it, and let it pass by. Ultimately the system is the thing that is failing them, not you.

If you find yourself without monetary means of supporting the homeless or impoverished, but you want to contribute to the lessening of their suffering, see if there’s any volunteering you can do in your local area that seeks for the betterment of their circumstances. Often your time and your energy are worth far, far more than any extra money you might be able to donate.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Set aside a budget of time, energy and money to help social causes, spend it as wisely as you can, and give a hard no when someone asks for more.

You mention the alcohol thing, which is fair, although as others note it’s best to withhold judgement. At least where I live there’s charities you can give money to instead, which will use it to buy things like food, fuel and clothing which they can then pass along. Pro tip: I’d go with a smaller charity, since big ones sometimes get top-heavy.

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