This has less to do with politics and more with insurance. Parties that don’t tag along are seen as unpatriotic and will become obsolete in the very near future. Parties that do tag along sign their names on the war manifest with blood. They can’t excuse themselves later when the world condemns the inevitable bloodbath and will help hold up their decision for eternity. If Netanyahu falls, they fall with him.
I urge caution on stories like this because a) it’s inflammatory, and b) I’m old enough to remember the “baby incubator” stories from Kuwait which were initially confirmed by Amnesty International, but then turned out to be complete bullshit.
“CNN has pored through hundreds of hours of media posted online attempting to corroborate accounts of atrocities committed by Hamas. In one video, which CNN determined to be authentic but has not been able to geolocate, an assailant attacks an injured man with a garden tool in an attempt to behead him. But CNN has not seen anything that would appear to confirm the claims of decapitated children.
CNN also visited the ransacked ruins of Kfar Aza on Tuesday and saw no evidence of beheaded youths. Israeli officials have not released any photographs of the incident either.”
Uhhh. Yes it does. The logo is a switched version of the Swiss flag and the cross in the Swiss flag is a Christian cross, originating from the Holy Roman Empire.
The international organization is called the International Committee of the Red Cross. National Red Cross and Red Crescent groups are simply local subsidiaries, essentially.
Please don't try to make clever gotchas if you don't even understand what you're talking about, and for anyone who upvoted this, please don't upvote something just because it seems vaguely clever and snarky.
Theres actually another. The Red Crystal, used in countries that are neither Christian or Muslim, though it really only exists because IRCCM didn’t want another religious symbol, i.e. the Star of David, especially since Judaism is a tiny religion (Voodoo is 4 times larger for example). So they compromised with a crystal and let the Palestinian and Israeli chapters in. In Hindu majority India for example basically only the crescent and cross are used.
There actually is the Magen David Adom (basically a Red Star of David) in Israel, which is recognized by the International Committee of the Red Cross as the national aid society in Israel, though that didn't happen until 2006 precise because of the reasons you stated.
Yeah, they didn't shoot that, it was the Palestinian Islamic Jihad according to the evidence delievered by Israel. Not the same groups, although they coordinate sometimes. But Hamas went right out of the gate blaming Israel despite apparently knowing better, and that's just not a good look at all if true.
Hey guys, specifically targeting, torturing, and murdering hundreds of civilians was fine - but we should really draw the line at lying online. That’s just barbarous.
Dude, have you done like, any research on this guy? This guy is not a ‘minister.’ He is basically tech support. He is (or was) on the digital team. Not in the military, not an official, not a spokesperson for Israel in any capacity. He is an Israel fanatic influencer.
I have seen this posted everywhere as somehow ‘proof’ but it’s a fricken influencer who jumped the gun and then got told to shut up because he had his info wrong and deleted the tweet.
This is proof of absolutely nothing except influencers are cancer.
Too easy to buy a blue tick and cause rampant misinformation to start flying. Twitter used to be pretty good for breaking news, now it’s impossible to trust any accounts without a lot of research.
I mean, could he have been refering to a different location? According to the Israel briefing, there was no activity of theirs at that time in the area of the hospital. I imagine there is a lot going on on both sides in all kinds of locations at all times at the moment.
Very compelling evidence, especially if it gets verified. They even adressed the question mark of it being more damage than these groups usually do when their missiles hit. It would be very high stakes lying, but then again, this is a high stakes situation. Whoever did that has a lot of innocent blood on their hands.
On how a rocket fired from Gaza could cause so much damage he said:
The existence of propellant made a larger explosion than the warhead itself. And this caused the damage, the explosions that we see of the burning cars here.
The existence of propellant made a larger explosion than the warhead itself. And this caused the damage, the explosions that we see of the burning cars here.
I'm not an expert but this doesn't sound very plausible considering the explosion basically leveled the building. Anyone with relevant expertise care to chime in?
Then you’ve been mislead. It hit the parking lot, damaged vehicles but left the building relatively intact and, besides windows, superficially damaged.
What I'm seeing pro-Israel sources saying is that the building is relatively intact and that the explosion took place in a parking lot. Given that Hamas stated "500 deaths" less than half an hour after the event, they also express some skepticism about how true the casualty count really is.
I'll only say that this is a total mess right now and that everything should be seen with some skepticism, especially claims that reinforce what you already believe or want to believe.
Honest question, do you have a picture of it? I've been incredibly confused about what the true state of the site is. I just saw a video showing the scorched parking lot with a bunch of burnt cars but no real structural damage to buildings around it.
Lots of Islamic Jihad & Hamas missiles fail during flight and kill Palestinians. Israel had published videos in the past showing e.g. 8 launches at night, pausing the video and showing how 2 or 3 suddenly turn down to the ground to hit the Gaza strip. And of course the local terrorist groups accounted dead Palestinians to Israel striking those locations. It’s sometimes easy to show, with visible rocket engines at night and sometimes harder.
It happens all the time. Hamas and Islamic Jihad don’t care for civilians or conventions and never did, all they care about is literally “killing Jews”. Next question people should be asking: “why are they launching rockets from a hospital’s parking lot? Isn’t that a warcrime?” And the answer is yes and always has been.
Also note that launching rockets from the hospital makes it a legitimate target and therefore not a warcrime to hit it. Innocents die but it is fair game to destroy it when used as a platform to launch attacks from.
News outlets don’t give a shit nor does the public. They all jumped at the initial news, regurgitated it verbatim and now that cool heads are analyzing everything it doesn’t matter anymore. PR was done.
I wonder where all the people from yesterday are now…for them it was damn sure Israel and if you made the mistake to publish this second opinion or made the suggestion to wait for other sources your were downvoted into oblivion…
But also with this new source I would wait until it is verified independently. I really like this approach from our german news station Tagesschau, where all news get a label until they are verified by different, independent sources. Makes fake news a lot less common.
damn those people for not reading your comment on a thread from yesterday that is now deleted, what are they even doing? they need to answer for themselves.
LOL and then everyone downvotes you, proving your point further. You’re right though, last night was a shitshow of people taking sides with almost no data and then downvoting anyone on the other team.
Not saying that there are vile people that are just rooting for their football team no matter what happens, but I did fine here offering the opinion that both statements were - at the time - equally not backed by evidence. I did mention, that the Guardian did mention that the size of explosion is more than usual for the weapons of the militants, but even that didn't necessearily mean that it was Israel.
If we're looking at this we should look at all neews criticial, especially if one supports a side over the other. It's too easy to fall for hopeful rumours and fantasies anyways. Seen too many people who just go on any unbacked claim by either side "aha! I knew it". It's a volatile and chaotic situation and a lot of bad actors just try to score points.
just to be very clear here: Even if this cruel and should be absolutely prevented, when the space around or the medical facility itself is used by the enemy forces to launch attacks or store ammunition or other equipment, it makes it a valid, military target. Attacking a hospital is not automatically a war crime as it is declared by many here…
I would go as far to say that using a hospital or civilian building as a base of operations to launch missiles from is the war crime in this scenario. If innocent people die from retaliation for that, the blood is on the hands of the people who chose to use civilians as meat shields and make them a target in the first place.
Edit: To be clear this isn’t a pro-Israel comment. Fuck them. I was just saying that if Hamas actually used hospitals as launch sites or military bases they would be the ones who are responsible. I don’t know for certain if they did or didn’t at this time.
Also quick reminder that Hamas rockets can't cause the scale of destruction that happened to the hospital. This is much more believable from an IDF airstrike.
At the very least, you should look at all evidence given to us before making a judgement.
Alone that you are saying "Hamas" rockets shows that you have not really dove into the topic. Because not even Israel claimed it was Hamas, but Islamic Jihad, which is a distinct group. Furthermore, they also had an argument regarding the increased damage.
I suggest you look at what we know first, before you make a judgement like "99.9%". This disinformation shit happens on both sides and it must be stopped. The situation doesn't get any clearer by people doing this.
Because not even Israel claimed it was Hamas, but Islamic Jihad, which is a distinct group.
Yeah, fair enough. Palestinian rockets in general don't have that kind of explosive capability, but I said Hamas because saying "Palestinians" incriminates too many people, which was probably not a smart decision now that I think about it.
Yeah, thanks for your insight. I don't fault you for being angry at Israel, I am too. But all the more reason to stick to the facts and don't criticize Israel on loose grounds. There are enough crimes we know they did, and it's less than productive to make something we don't know for sure is their fault into their fault only to have facts blown up in our faces.
Sticking as close a possible to the facts, consider information of all kinds, even if we don't like the people, it's important in this disinformation war raging on the topic. We can be better than the people who still repeat the false 40 beheaded babies.
I addressed this mysterious deleted tweet above, but TL;DR the guy is an influencer and that should tell you all you need to know about believing anything he says.
They don’t care that they were wrong. The next time Hamas claims Israel did something bad they will believe it instantly and only question whatever IDF says. It’s not about the truth but what they wished the truth was.
I’m skeptical of both claims, but so far the evidence leans far more on it being Israeli strike. Especially with their continuously changing narrativem
Oh, is that the one with the wrong timestamp? Or is that the one where all the lights are still on in Gaza? Sorry I’m getting all my IDF propaganda confused
You are not the slightest bit better, by spreading an obscure Video that has no information whatsoever when/where it was made and what exactly is shown.
We’re seeing an Israeli news source followed by an IDF statement with IDF evidence, so a conflict of interest does exist with these sources, though that doesn’t mean either is lying. That being said, if Israel did deliberately target a hospital in Gaza with as many eyes on Gaza as there are, that’d be a really fucking stupid move. At the same time, If they did, lying and completely fabricating everything is in their highest interest. At minimum, though, I think that any trustworthiness one would associate with journalists or military Intel be thrown out, and the evidence be viewed with skepticism
We’re still in the fog of war, and simultaneously a war for our minds and support is being waged. I am going to wait for more information from more parties to arrive.
EDIT: I previously stated the tweet I linked claimed the missile was moving north east, which it doesn’t - that’s my misphrasing. The tweet I linked specifically repeats the falling shrapnel story - though the evidence they show shows the camera looking southeast, with the missile coming from said direction towards the camera. I’ve rewritten it to be more clear.
Something that occurs to me that I can’t really get out of my head is perhaps Israel using it’s iron dome system to intercept missiles so that the shrapnel lands inside Gaza. I don’t know much about the iron dome system, nor what the alternatives to making missile shrapnel fall on civilians are.
If anyone with more knowledge about these things could weigh in, I’d appreciate it.
No shot a Hamas rocket has that kind of firepower, especially after detonation.
If you watch the comparison video, it sounds very much like a US JDAM rig (which is like a strap-on guidance system for normally-dumb ordinance; so instead of just falling from a plane and hoping for the best, it can aim and steer to a target.
If you look at the picture of the damage it is immediately obvious that it was not a JDAM. This bullshit about Hamas not having the firepower when the damage is clearly not from a JDAM proves that you’re all just making shit up and regurgitating nonsense. Also Hamas didn’t shoot the rocket either, Islamic Jihad did. But continue to trust terrorist words over evidence. It’s going really well for you so far.
On the other hand you attached a picture that shows a rocket launch site that is quite a long way from the Hospital - or is this the cemetery those men in the voice recording were talking about?
Does anyone have sources on what kind of missiles Palestinian groups typically have access to? I think that would be very useful in evaluating the claims being made.
I would count that as having access to them. But that by itself doesn’t answer the question of what exactly they’re able to build and if it’s big enough to do as much damage as we saw. Based on someone else’s link it looks like they do have missiles big enough to do catastrophic damage to a large building, especially if they crash right after takeoff and are full of propellant. That was a surprise to me. It’s not proof of anything but it does make Israel’s story seem more plausible.
Those are all rockets that claim to have been used. Notably most were caught trying to enter Gaza because they’re goddamn huge. 99% of everything fired from Gaza is going to be homemade, small and slow as fuck which is why iron dome even though it’s not particularly sophisticated compared to ciws of major nations.
timesofisrael.com
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