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lemmy.world

Plastic_Ramses , to workreform in Restaurant group in Massachusetts is trying to reject a public vote on paying tipped workers

Turning tipped positions into non-tipped positions will push down wages for those formerly tipped positions.

At least when prices went up, servers got a piece. Now restaurant owners will stagnate wages and pocket the increase.

surewhynotlem ,

Ok. So what.

If they can fill the positions at that rate then they should be happy. They can increase prices since consumers don’t tip anymore and pocket the difference.

If you are correct, then the owners wouldn’t be fighting this.

Plastic_Ramses ,

Having a burden to pay your staff is just that - a burden.

It doesnt mean that owners wont make more money, its just a bigger pain in the ass than its worth.

kboy101222 ,

Don’t know what else to say but boohoo

Plastic_Ramses ,

Continue advocating for the owner class then i guess.

Staff make more money on a tipped system than not.

exanime ,

And do you think that extra money comes from the owners?

sunzu ,

I don't think he reached that stage of development tbh.

Plastic_Ramses ,

The extra money comes from the customer no matter the system.

But now wages will stay down while ownership makes more.

exanime ,

The extra money comes from the customer no matter the system

Correct but with a tipping, the onus is on the consumer and the most affected would be the worker should the customer not have enough “compassion”… The owner has little to no risk and often even steals from employees

With a livable wage and no tipping system, the owner is mandated to pay a proper wage. They may choose to raise prices but then the onus is on them and also the risk. If they raise prices too much, they’ll lose clients

ghen ,

You mean like every other company on the face of the planet? Seems to work out just fine.

Plastic_Ramses ,

That’s a false comparison, and you know it.

Pika , (edited )
@Pika@sh.itjust.works avatar

Not the person you replied to, but I do think it’s a fair comparison, most are operated by a buy product sell product to customer system. Take retail for example there is nothing in a restaurant environment that retail isn’t having to do at store level, because it’s still buying products with the intent to supply it to the customer base. You still have to deal with the same mechanics still have to deal with waste you still have to deal with pricing for the consumer you still have to deal with your wages, so my question is how is the restaurant industry not the same.

This of course is also not including the majority of the other countries that do not use our system and seem to be handling it just fine.

As a consumer I would much rather have to deal with a higher menu price with the sign that saying tips not required then have to deal with trying to figure out how much the transaction is going to cost plus whatever the tip is going to be which seems to be getting higher and higher. Plus it also helps the employee out because if they’re in a lower end restaurant that isn’t getting many customers or they get assigned a crappier area, they don’t have to keep track themselves to make sure they’re reporting to their employer “hey I didn’t actually make minimum wage this week so you’re going to have to pay the difference” it also removes a lot of volitily in terms of how much you’re actually going to get paid

Nommer ,

Guess you’ll just have to live with paying fair wages to your employees. Get fucked.

Plastic_Ramses , (edited )

Lol, im not an owner dingus.

Ive worked basically every position from busser and expo all the way to exec chef and gm and am currently a bartender. I can sayy with first hand knowledge that wages go down when switched from a tipped system to a non tipped system.

I guess first hand knowledge of the industry counts for nothing when a bunch of tech bros on lemmy know more than me.

Edit: makes me sad that people who want worker reform would want to support owner suppression of wages.

I know it doesnt fit your neat little box, but it is facts.

rekorse ,

So go ahead and explain exactly where thr money is lost. Does the restaurant make less money now? Is an owner incapable of paying their employees the equivalent of what they made with tips?

You said you know all of this so intimately, so lay it out for us idiots.

Plastic_Ramses , (edited )

Ok, I’ll lay out for all of you idiots.

In our current system, customers almost directly pay wages for servers and chefs, and it stays tied to menu prices. Thus, wages go up when prices go up.

In this suggested system, you trust the ownership class to raise wages for some reason because that works fantastically in the United States.

Im not sure why you’re suggesting that because the capitalist class will always, always, always bleed whatever they can dry. You know that, i know that the railworkers in the us know that.

Like come on, use your tiny tiny brain that apparently can’t multiple 50 times .2 and think about this for a second. This will and has absolutely led to wage suppression because they will absolutely not raise wages once they are set.

It’s crazy to me that so many people on a sub called “work reform” are advocating for the ownership class and lowering wages. Like, why do you think we’re all here???

Fuck.

The ideal situation would be unions, but no one here has suggested that for some reason, maybe its because no one in this conversation, with the exception of myself, has ever stepped foot onto a restaurant floor with intent to work outside of the one time they washed dishes at an applebees when they were 16.

I feel like im taking fuckin crazy pills with the amount of capitialist bullshit im reading here.

Whats wrong with all of you???

WanderingVentra ,

People can’t afford food anymore let alone the 18-25% tips on everything. It was easier before the recent insane rise of inflation, but the increase of food prices has applied to restaurants, too now since they need to buy the more expensive food plus make a profit. Or maybe they’re just being greedy, too, idk. But point is, every place has seemed way too expensive to eat out at lately. That’s before the tips. Then, adding on tips and having to do math at your meal every time when you’re already stretching your budget every time you go out, plus suggested tips going up (from 15 to 18, to 20, to 22 and even higher now), and other countries not dealing with this, and I think it’s making people even more tired of the tips bullshit.

People in the US are trained to think themselves as consumers before workers, which is a big problem, but in this case I think the aggravation is understandable. And it’s weird they work different than basically every other industry. If wage suppression is a problem after, then they’re just in the same boat as the rest of us, and we can all work on it together. Probably with unions.

rekorse ,

We aren’t advocating for the owner class. We are not responsible for how ownership responds to our actions.

Just because an action might have negative effects for the works aside from the positives does not mean its a bad idea.

The whole point of this is to pressure the owner class to pay a fair wage to their employees. Of course the owner class will attempt to defend their position, which likely means putting their workers into undo hardship.

People are tired of playing games. Pay what someone is worth, and dont make them jump through hoops to get it.

sunzu ,

People don't want to do math when they are going to get a food or beer, that's the owners job... Is it that hard to understand?

Plastic_Ramses ,

Wait, are you telling me that the market decides wages and we should be happy with it?

That’s capitalist bullshit.

WarlordSdocy ,

I don’t think anyone is saying we need to not allow tipping, just stop the stupid idea that restaurants can pay less just because an employee is tipped. They shouldn’t be reliant on the good will of people or the social pressure to tip, that should just be an extra.

ECB ,

I mean, I’m saying that.

To me I’ve never understood why sit-down restaurants should be looked at any differently to any other business. Why can’t the actual price just be listed on the menu?

Like, if we’ve collectively decided that the actual price is 20% higher than what is listed, then let’s just treat this like every other profession and raise prices by 20%.

Why are people taking orders and carrying food special? Other customer-facing positions generally don’t get tips. Chefs (who make the food!) generally don’t get tips.

Just pay the waitstaff a fair wage and quit the tipping!

Plastic_Ramses ,

It’s not 1995 anymore. Most restaurants require chefs to be tipped out.

Its only the really shitty ones that dont.

DrSteveBrule ,

From my limited experience working in restaurants, the chefs also get paid at least minimum wage if not more

Plastic_Ramses , (edited )

In most major cities youd be hard pressed to find even an ‘ok’ position that is paying minumum wage. Most are making 20-25+tips.

Edit: the dishwasher at my restaurant makes 72k. Thats not a joke.

ECB ,

Of course they do, it’s the law. It’s crazy to me that servers are (seemingly randomly) excluded from this and have to rely on tips.

ECB ,

I’ve worked in a number of places as a chef (from low to high end) and that was never the case anywhere I worked. To be fair, it’s been almost a decade though, so maybe I’m out of date.

Plastic_Ramses ,

Fwiw, the industry has changed. Chefs are paid on par with foh nowadays.

rekorse ,

There is a good chance local markets differ here too.

Plastic_Ramses ,

Not wrong. The local markets i have experience with are the most populated locations in the United States. Portland, chicago, New york, miami, seattle, la, sf, atlanta.

I would imagine living in hondo, tx sucks ass but that’s not because of tipping.

WarlordSdocy ,

Are you saying you think tips should be banned? Like if I offered someone a tip and they accept it should they be in trouble? Cause that’s what I mean when I say no one is saying tipping should be not allowed.

ECB ,

I’m not sure it would be possible to change the culture any other way, since it’s so entrenched.

The only restaurants I know of that were able to successfully transition to a less toxic business model for servers did so through a combination of paying servers a fair base wage ($20+ an hour) and banning tips.

Culture is tricky in that it’s ‘sticky’ and often takes a lot of effort to change. Having a policy like ‘tipping not required’ would still lead to the vast majority of customers feeling obligated to tip because not tipping carries with it such a strong implication of being greedy/stingy.

I should mention that this all mostly applies to the US and that there are plenty of countries with flourishing hospitality industries where tipping is virtually nonexistent (or even seen as insulting).

WarlordSdocy ,

I just don’t see the harm with leaving it not banned. At least for me personally the problem with the culture comes from the fact that servers rely on it to make a living so if you don’t do it you’re denying them that. So if you fix that problem and pay a liveable wage and just allow tips as an extra then sure they might still see someone not tipping as stingy but atleast now it’s not impacting their ability to make a living directly so they can’t be as justifiably angry.

Cause atleast personally I haven’t worked in the service industry but I have worked minimum wage at a grocery store and I remember they told us we couldn’t accept extra money from customers which I always thought was dumb. I wasn’t expecting people to give me extra money and it was pretty rare that it happened but occasionally a nice person would come through and offer me some extra money for helping them and I thought it was dumb I had to turn that down. It didn’t make me think less of the people who didn’t do that, just would have been a nice extra bonus to help me out.

whoreticulture ,

A ton of people, in this thread, are saying tipping should be banned/not a thing.

WarlordSdocy ,

I haven’t seen anyone say it should be banned, just not required because the person isn’t making enough money to live off of just the wage they’re paid. I agree it shouldn’t need to be a thing but it should still be an option if you have extra money and feel generous, it just shouldn’t be expected.

akakunai ,

If the goal is to do away with tipping, I don’t know of another way besides banning it that will be effective.

The provinces of Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia all did away with the seperate (lesser) server wage so that all employees go by a universal minimum wage. I don’t think that changed patrons’ tipping habits one bit.

And servers are still reliant on the good will of people. Ain’t nobody with real expenses getting by with some of these minimum wages. Not with the current cost-of-living.

uriel238 ,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Restaurant owners will increase prices with inflation because it means more profits. Restaurant owners are also notorious for stealing tips and wage theft.

And restaurants that ended tipping (some have) have happier wait staff and management.

Do you own a restaurant?

Plastic_Ramses ,

Do you have a source on that statement?

I do not own a restaurant but am a worker, bartender specifically.

Every restaurant that i know of or have worked in that switches to a non-tipped wage leads to suppressed/lower wages, and that’s from someone who has intimate access to the books.

Pay is definitely more consistent but not as high on average by design.

rekorse ,

Well you can do a shitty version of anything. There are gains to be had switching to a non-tipped pay structure, but its up to the owner to distribute it fairly. Sounds like in your examples the owner collected the extra money themselves.

Plastic_Ramses , (edited )

Its nuts to me how many people in this thread support and trust the ownership class.

Do you trust the ownership class?

Pilon23 , to lemmyshitpost in Reject reality
jwmgregory , to lemmyshitpost in Reject reality

i misheard lady gaga’s bad romance the first few times. “want you in my rear window, baby, you’re sick;” came across to me as “while in morrowind, your baby is sick.” thought it was a commentary of some sorts lmao.

ArmoredThirteen ,

It’s the ash storms, babies drop like flies in that kind of weather. Probably why you don’t see any kids in Vvardenfell is because they get stored away somewhere keep them safe from ash, blight, and disease carrying imperials

Quetzalcutlass ,

How old do you think Dunmer are before they get the face wrinkles? Maybe they hide their infants because they all look like charcoal raisins?

ArmoredThirteen ,

They do look the way they do because the Tribunal are assholes who got them all cursed. So I like it, they’ve made peace with their faces but never the shame of having super ugly babies so they all get hidden away

Blackmist ,

🎵 I don’t wanna be French! 🎵

WhollyGuacamole ,

I always heard it as, “Want you tomorrow when your baby is sick.”

angstylittlecatboy ,

I thought it was “want you in my room when the baby is sick” until today

TachyonTele , to insanepeoplefacebook in Sovcit doesn't understand.

Is he trying to give himself power of attorney? If not, then it really doesn’t make any sense at all. Even doing that doesn’t make any sense anyways lol

apfelwoiSchoppen ,
@apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world avatar

It not making sense is a baseline requirement for sovcit communications.

TachyonTele ,

Very true. I wonder if any of the other sovcits ever understand each other in these posts. I picture them going “huh? I have no idea… Try this random thing!”

Rhynoplaz ,

Oh no, they ALL know exactly what to do.

But every answer is different and none of them will work.

Reverendender ,

This is the part that fucks me up the most. I just cannot wrap my brain around it.

Etterra ,

What they’re trying to do is effectively magic. They think that if they word things just correctly that it will achieve some desired result. Unfortunately for them, the real world does not work that way. Fortunately for us, it’s fun to laugh at them for trying over and over and over and again, and expecting different results with each consecutive attempt.

D1G17AL ,

Exactly, they think they are casting spells like some sort of legal wizard.

Crashumbc ,

Sovcits have multiple “selfs” he is probably trying to give his new self POA over his old self’s account, but not be financially responsible for any debts…

At the core of 99% sovcits hijynx is always an attempt to not pay their debts.

Etterra ,

They’re especially, adamantly hostile in regards to tax debt.

ramble81 ,

I also read it as he wants them to hold on to his money, but he doesn’t want them having any access or knowledge of his money, lest they do something to it. It feels just crazy enough to be what they’re thinking.

cajunflavoredbob , to lemmyshitpost in Reject reality

Hold me closer, Tony Danza.🎵🎵

rc__buggy ,

Hang my poster of Tony Danza

BodilessGaze , to insanepeoplefacebook in Sovcit doesn't understand.

“this is not an automated response” - honestly, I think this is one of the few situations where a company could be fully justified in forcing a customer to use ChatGPT for support, since that would free up the service reps to focus on helping the sane customers.

KevonLooney ,

Definitely not a time to be using an automated response. Banks and credit unions have to comply with strict regulations so the most annoying customers need to be babied like this.

If you read the message, they are sticking closely to the specific rules they have to follow. This is the proper way to deal with anyone demanding things like this: assume that all communications with customers will be used as evidence in court.

PenisWenisGenius , to lemmyshitpost in Never give up

Nuh-uh

HejMedDig , to cat in Pepper in her absolute favorite spot: my $200 router.

Your $200 toe bean warmer

mox ,

Bean warmer.

Beam former.

Two for the price of one.

BleatingZombie , to lemmyshitpost in Reject reality

“Blitzkrieg Bop” always sounded to me like “let’s get fucked” for some reason

Sylvartas ,

So that’s the real lyrics. Never looked them up but it definitely sounded like “let’s get fucked” to me too

PenisWenisGenius , to lemmyshitpost in sure you can have latkes :)

The government took bribes by Big Toilet Paper to ban asbestos

Mokopa , to funny in That's a bold strategy...

Real heroes don’t wear capes, they wear this t-shirt.

lost_tortie , to cat in Pepper in her absolute favorite spot: my $200 router.
@lost_tortie@lemmy.world avatar

Gorgeous kitty! 😻

CaptDust , to cat in Pepper in her absolute favorite spot: my $200 router.

Im in ur networks, killin ur wifis

Empricorn ,

Woah, an “icanhazcheesebugers” reference in 2024! I love it.

pleb_maximus ,

Those were better days.

lath , to lemmyshitpost in Reject reality

“I just want to set the world on fire”

tempest , to cat in Pepper in her absolute favorite spot: my $200 router.

Do the red racing stripes make it zoom faster?

Quill7513 ,

It’s to hone the palantir’s connection to the other 6 palantirs

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