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lemmy.today

bstix , to technology in Unity deleted these terms, don't let them get out

If those were the terms you signed, those are the terms that matter.

PaintedSnail ,

But do the terms you signed say they are allowed to change the terms at any time with notice?

rbits ,

Yes that is what the post you commented on says But they also say you can use an old version if you don’t like the changed terms.

PM_Your_Nudes_Please ,

Sure, but they also say you can use an old version if you prefer the old terms. Basically, that if they update the terms, it’ll only apply to the current/future versions.

So just stop using the current version. Just use the old version which still has the old terms. You never agreed to the new terms, and under the terms you agreed to, you can continue to use the old terms.

PaintedSnail ,

That poses an interesting question. If they can change the terms, and say that you agree to the changes by continuing to use their software, and they remove the clause allowing you to use the previous agreement, then can you use the previous agreement? It’s a bit of a buried shovel problem. Have you agreed to not use a previous agreement by continuing to use the software, or can you stick to the old agreement that lets you use the old agreement?

DarkenLM ,

The terms can say that your firstborn shall be sacrificed to an Eldritch Deity by accepting them, but that doesn't mean it's enforceable.

essteeyou ,

I mean, in this economy, what’s one first-born even worth?

IntergalacticZombie ,

$10?

PaintedSnail ,

Enforcability is one of the major issues, and why companies try so hard to keep issues like this from the courts.

Mossheart ,

Tell that to the Eldritch deity.

bstix ,

They can change the terms, but if you don’t sign the new terms then you have never accepted the new terms.

For some reason, companies think they can write anything into their terms and think it matters. It doesn’t. Most contracts aren’t worth the paper it’s written on.

PaintedSnail ,

“By continuing to use the software, you agree to the new terms…” which is, of course, hogwash, but wouldn’t stop them from say “Sorry, the new terms were released and you agreed, so pay up.”

Dultas ,

Depends on how long your license is for. If you have a 1 year license and they change the terms, you are going to have to sign new terms for the next year’s license.

theworstshepard ,

Typically terms of service can and will be updated and if you don’t object to them you’re deemed to have accepted them.

Many people will be familiar with emails entitled “your terms of service have changed” or “updates to your terms of service”

Disgusted_Tadpole , to technology in Unity deleted these terms, don't let them get out
@Disgusted_Tadpole@lemmy.ml avatar

Fuckin hell, one of my favourite game was about to ditch flash (yea I know lol) for Unity and then that. They invested tons of money, idk what will happen

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

“I think we’ll just stay here, in the 90’s.” - that dev

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot ,
seth ,

Somehow, I never heard that song before today. The harmony is quite nice, thanks for the link!

hansl ,

“The 90s called. And I picked up the phone.”

qaz ,

Ruffle.rs allows you to run flash games using WebAssembly and doesn’t require any fees

Kyoyeou ,

What’s the game?

Mrduckrocks ,

His favourite game

Klear ,

I love my favourite game!

spez_ ,

No, it’s his favourite game

Klear ,

Oh. I hate that one.

Disgusted_Tadpole ,
@Disgusted_Tadpole@lemmy.ml avatar

Come on, it’s good

Kyoyeou ,

Dammit! That one! Right

PM_Your_Nudes_Please ,

Bro’s over here still keeping his neopets fed.

jeremy_sylvis , to technology in Unity deleted these terms, don't let them get out
@jeremy_sylvis@midwest.social avatar

I wonder if they realize the extent to which this disincentivizes upgrades to any newer form of Unity - and the newer license - even outside the rest of the recent drama.

It would take amazing changes to even consider giving this up - and at that point, it’s a hop and a skip to a platform shift.

Corkyskog ,

Google app store requires a change, old version doesn’t have the capability to make the change. App gets pulled or you upgrade and make the change… boom that’s all it takes. And appreciate from other comments it happens semi-regularly.

yardy_sardley , to technology in Unity deleted these terms, don't let them get out

Lmao when you’re trying to turn your company into a bloodsucking vampire but you forgot that long ago, you told your lawyer to chain the coffin in case this very thing happened.

LazaroFilm ,
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck Spez… oh wait…

nothingcorporate OP ,

Seriously, tech enshittiffication is feeling all too familiar.

LazaroFilm ,
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

Facebook (a long time ago), Twitter, Reddit, Google (they even removed the don’t be evil modo), now Unity. Apple being Apple… Arduino going closed source, Raspberry Pi becoming for profit. Samsung, at least never ever even tried to look nice.

UrPartnerInCrime ,

Seems we’re in a time where the hopeful are hopeless so the greedy take charge

LazaroFilm ,
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

It’s a time where the kings are pulling as hard as they can on their rope until the day it breaks and their heads start flying. The people can be stepped on but only for so long.

UrPartnerInCrime ,

Let’s hope it’s not too late when we revolt

LazaroFilm ,
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

It will be too late.

tev ,
@tev@pawb.social avatar

what happened with raspberry pi?

LazaroFilm ,
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

I mis expressed myself. I meant the price gouge of that last few years.

Touching_Grass ,

I wish we could get names of the teams that decided this was a good idea. I’d love to hear their side

chaorace ,
@chaorace@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

“Hey bro, let’s go check out those sirens over there. I swear, bro… just plug your ears with wax and tie me to the bow. Bro, it’ll be so epic.”

Sirens arrive

“Bro, why the fuck did you tie me down?? Smash this goddamn boat against the rocks!”

UrPartnerInCrime ,

Perfect analogy, just wanted to say I took this as air sirens at first at it did not make sense lol

chaorace ,
@chaorace@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Quick shoutout to my prehistorical homies for passing down only the choicest and most salient of allegories. We meme on the shoulders of giants.

Raxiel , to technology in Unity deleted these terms, don't let them get out

I know Unity claim they can apply their new pricing to old versions anyway, but setting that aside, how practical is it to simply stay on Unity 2022 LTSB or earlier?

I’m not a software developer, I’m a CAD modeller. My company pays Autodesk a substantial amount of money every year for licence tokens which grants us access to new releases, but using the latest is pretty much unheard of.

For AutoCAD, 2022 is the default (2024 is current) although they don’t seem to have added much of interest since v2019. For the likes of Civil 3D and Revit there are useful updates in newer versions, but the version used is locked in at the start of a project, and upgrading mid scheme is only done in exceptional circumstances.

If Autodesk came out with some kind of scheme in their 2025 tos that said “if you model a bridge in Revit, we will charge 5 cents for every car that crosses or passes under it” then we could easily stick on 2024 for a decade, more than enough time to skill up on the alternatives.

FLX ,

You can’t do that in unity, because each version has somehow a major bug ruining your life or your project.

They usually only fix them after they introduce another bug that breaks another part of your project, so it’s a neverending race.

You don’t wan’t to reimplement everything yourself and they are always “working on it” so you trust them

XTornado , to technology in Unity deleted these terms, don't let them get out

It doesn’t matter for most devs, unless you don’t support the game anymore, this doesn’t help anything, at some point you will need an engine update to support new hardware, fix an engine bug or similar.

Decompose , to technology in Unity deleted these terms, don't let them get out

If this is true, they’re really screwed. No one is gonna use the new versions.

ultratiem , to technology in Unity deleted these terms, don't let them get out
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

TBH that’s a wild clause lol. Why? Most just say if you don’t like our new terms here’s the door. I don’t blame for deleting it, it’s unnecessarily dumb, but why even add that in the first place. It’s just going to be a nightmare to grandfather people as you move forward.

Honestly, so many epic fails.

jj4211 ,

Well, it should be utterly impossible to retroactively alter the terms of an agreement once agreed upon. This just gave some wiggle room that within a given calendar year, you don’t have to think too hard about the agreement as it can’t change (unless you want) on you even in updates within a year.

It seems to be a pretty reasonable clause to assuage customers that while technically the terms are a living document, they can actually plan their business around the product. Giving the supplier the flexibility they want, while promising the customer the stability they may require.

jarfil ,

assuage customers that while technically the terms are a living document, they can actually plan their business around the product

Aaaand, it’s gone.

So long, Unity.

azurefirefly , to technology in Unity deleted these terms, don't let them get out

Internet archive is awesome

MossBear , to technology in Unity deleted these terms, don't let them get out

Don’t let your kids grow up to be Unity developers.

MrPoopyButthole , to programmerhumor in Was Unity lying yesterday or are they lying today?
@MrPoopyButthole@lemmy.world avatar

I may get downvoted to hell for this, but besides the shady business practices, Unity sucks as a game engine. You can just feel the engine eating resources for no good reason and the gfx don’t come close to UE5.

marcos ,

Oh, I don’t think anybody will disagree that Unity is completely unoptimized and barebones compared to Unreal. It is also hard to learn and confusing compared to Godot.

There used to be a huge amount of people that wanted exactly something easier to learn than Unreal and more featureful than Godot. But those two improved in a way that this niche may not even exist anymore. Anyway, currently Unity has that unbeatable marketplace, and I really don’t know if there’s a good enough replacement somewhere, but I don’t see any other reason to use it.

(But then, I’m not really a game developer. I’ve used those here or there, for fun.)

BassaForte ,
@BassaForte@lemmy.world avatar

Not quite. Unity isn’t poorly optimized, but it’s not great either. Unity also is very easy to learn, hence the number of really shit games put out from it.

Source: have been using Unity for the past 10 years

arrowmax ,

From a hobbyist dev who dabbled with Unity for several years: The worst part about the engine imo is the fragmentation of the entire ecosystem.

  • There are three major rendering pipelines (HDRP, URP, Legacy), each with their own specific quirks, configurations and dependencies, which are entirely incompatible with eachother.
  • Foundational packages (input handling, networking etc.) change/break way too often or have been deprecated for years without replacement (uNet) and rely on 3d party packages.

And don’t even start with the documentation for any of the above. Multiple times have I found documentation for a rendering callback or ShaderLab parameter claiming it would be compatible with URP only to find that the documentation was supposed to be for HRDP.

IzzyScissor , to programmerhumor in Was Unity lying yesterday or are they lying today?

Do installs of the same game by the same user across multiple devices count as different installs?

We treat different devices as different installs. We don’t want to track identity across different devices.

Jesus Christ. A single user can freely install the game repeatedly and bankrupt a creator.

fsxylo ,

I can definitely see one of those “ree woke game” types doing this.

GreenMario ,
Gerbler ,

Excellent

anteaters ,

Fitting image host, too.

DiagnosedADHD ,

I can see this going wrong with steam proton if each install gets it’s own wine config, simply reinstalling or updating might look like a new machine

words_number , to programmerhumor in Was Unity lying yesterday or are they lying today?

Wow, a proprietary quasi monopoly changes their business model into something extremely exploitative and hostile. I am totally surprised! Shocked even! Blimey!

Seriously, why spend years of your life learning to work with some technology that can at anytime be made instantly obsolete or impractical to use when some random asshole you don’t know decides something dumb. If there’s a FOSS alternative, always prefer that.

bouh ,

Is there a Foss alternative to unity?

Rambi ,

I looked into it briefly after hearing this news and saw people talking about Godot. It’s for 2D and 3D multi-platform games and you can use C#, C++ and others. Sounds pretty cool

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godot_(game_engine)

barsoap ,

The other cool kid on the block right now is bevy. It’s less of an engine for people who just want something to write their game in, though, but more of a framework for people looking to write their own engine. There’s practically nothing you can’t customise or replace in that thing, it’s built to be both flexible and performant.

far_university1990 , to programmerhumor in Was Unity lying yesterday or are they lying today?

Wait why charging for an install? What is going on?

Russianranger ,

They announced a new business model effective next year. It’s plastered all over the net, just look up “Unity news” and you’ll get a ton of hits on it. Lots of coverage on YouTube as well.

slazer2au ,

Instead of revenue sharing like some places do Unity want a $0.20 fee , less depending on your sales numbers, for installing a unity game.

blog.unity.com/…/plan-pricing-and-packaging-updat…

cerement ,
@cerement@slrpnk.net avatar

sounds like you’ve missed a couple of days of the newest Unity drama

far_university1990 ,

Yes, did not hear any of this yet. thanks

JackGreenEarth ,

It’s why software needs to be open source, not just free.

XYZinferno ,

Godot is a good example of a free and well-developed open source game engine. It’ll probably see a sharp rise in adoption following this controversy from Unity.

evilgiraffe666 ,

See a sharp rise? Was that an intentional C# reference?

XYZinferno ,

LMAO

I work with C# daily and even I didn’t realize I made a pun there xD

Maybe it’s just embedded in my subconscious at this point…

Maven ,
@Maven@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Yo, is C# named that because a # is made of four plusses?

droans ,

Yep, it’s supposed to mean C++++.

The sharp symbol also resembles a ligature of four “+” symbols (in a two-by-two grid), further implying that the language is an increment of C++.

That’s specific enough that I have to assume you already knew that, though.

PlexSheep ,
@PlexSheep@feddit.de avatar

The year of Godot games is coming

MJBrune ,

This is far more likely than the year of the Linux desktop

fsxylo ,

I’ve looked into Godot for 2 hours and I already am learning how to write shaders. I feel like the available assets are going to skyrocket.

fckreddit ,

Because greed. Is there any other explanation?

transigence ,
@transigence@kbin.social avatar

Or because they got bigger than they can currently support and they don't want to lay off their employees.

cerement ,
@cerement@slrpnk.net avatar

Unity has absolutely no qualms about laying off employees …

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Then they’d use an actually sensible payment model like, gee, say taking a cut of the revenue made from unity games?

This is like being charged every time you eat off of a plate rather than just charging for the fucking plate.

WhyIDie , to programmerhumor in Was Unity lying yesterday or are they lying today?

yes

WhyIDie , (edited )

Unity’s current CEO is an ex-exec from EA. but at least it looks like in 2021 they got around to replacing the CFO from 2015, who was previously also an EA ex-exec that was hired as such the year after the CEO was brought on board from EA. The hirings coincided with many rapid, scummy changes to their subscriptions and dev support. I expect many lies yesterday, today, tomorrow, and beyond as they now focus on squeezing their non-subbed devs

LetterboxPancake ,

EA: it’s cancer

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