There’s actually a lot of plant based meat that are chemical / preservative free, Redefine Meat comes first to mind. As there is a lot of animal meat that is full of chemicals, preservatives, carcinogens, and antibiotics use.
I would only assume most fast food meals, meat ones included, are not chemical / preservative free. That’s a western fast food problem, vegan or not.
Lastly, vegan people broadly don’t eat plant based meats. Like it get the joke… It’s just broadly inaccurate. Meat eaters, people trying to eat less meat, and some vegetarians buy plant based meats.
Now with that out of the way, this is literally just a lame “I’ve depicted the group I don’t agree with as the Soyjak and my group as the Chad, thus superiority confirmed”.
Thank you, it drives me nuts when people say shit like “chemical-free”. Everything is made out of chemicals, tell me which one otherwise I’ll just assume you’re uneducated and afraid of things you can’t pronounce.
Lastly, vegan people broadly don’t eat plant based meats
I think it’s a demographics thing. There’s a whole lot of vegans who eat “fake meat” regularly or even exclusively. I have a successful restaurant chain near me that specialized in “plant-based alternative” meals, from burgers to lasagnas and everything in between. No it’s not all meat. Lots of “Cashew Cheese” and similar.
And honestly, I don’t think vegans should be faulted for “wanting meat but not eating it”. It’s the ones that get judgey of non-vegans like the other 99% are somehow inferior to them. I know way too many vegans who are vegan for good reasons or for personal-trauma reasons, and they should be left alone. Even if they want a miracle burger and mac 'n cashes.
Of course there is. Not saying no vegans eat it ever. It could be a regional variable, but I’m speaking about population as a whole, not your local vegan restaurant. Google says 86% of plant based meat is bought by meat eaters. I also work in the field so have some knowledge on the subject. 86% is about right but could be 5-8% high. But in any case, the people who buy it are broadly meat eater, or more likely “flexitarians” .
And vegans should eat more plant based meats. The better brands are very healthy and it could help them stick to their vegan diets.
Google says 86% of plant based meat is bought by meat eaters
The reference behind that Google statement (assuming the same) is a vegan blog talking about the Beyond brand only, and it’s citing a wordpress site as its source, and the wordpress site has been deleted.
NPD has a study mis-cited by vegnews.com (that MPD doesn’t actually seem to cite), but it includes plant-based milks, and I don’t think that gives meaningful numbers. I’ll drink a soy latte with a steak any day. I’m lactose intolerant.
NIH has the most reliable study, that settled around 2/3 of plant-meat consumers are omnivores. Which is saying something, but is also not surprising from the fact that almost 90% of the world consumes meat. So I think it sorta just runs out to nowhere, with regards to being a demographic thing. Clearly, vegans and vegetarians are more likely to consume plant-based meat than meat-eaters. With 10% of Americans being vegetarian and representing over 30% of plant-based meat consumers, they’re eating that stuff up.
Never forget? In some states it’s downright illegal to teach kids that complex, sophisticated and civilized societies existed here before white people showed up.
I’ve been reading 1491 by Charles C Mann and telling my 14yo a lot of what I’ve been learning, it’s a fascinating book. We live in the rural southern Appalachians and I know for damn sure those teachers aren’t including nuance with their history.
There are a fair few mods who are genuinely installed by the admins to be fascists, and if any of the other mods complain they get kicked out. Also I have yet to see a single instance of some group in power joking that they’re nazis where they didn’t end up actually being nazis.
He’s famous for having said that he’s looking forward to the zombie apocalypse because it would let him live his fantasy of being a slaver.
There was also a hate subreddit where the mods all had a collective turn of heart and decided to shut down, but then reddit stepped in, reestablished the place, cleared house and then installed a new set of mods so that the subreddit could keep running. Yes, seriously.
Yeah, I love the FOSS philosophy and I would be a communist if I didn’t know that in my country and in every other country where communism is/was, it became a dictatorship doing reallly horrible things. I simply don’t have the trust in people to believe communism is possible without violation of human rights. It’s sad.
In the absence of an answer I would just like to remind you that dbzer0 seems to not be the place for you. Maybe fascists cannot read very well, but on the signup screen it says explicitly:
Note that this is an anarchist server. If you start promoting right-wing rhetoric, expect to be banned.
I do not think you should feel very welcome here at all. Maybe just leave Lemmy altogether?
Looked through your comments and seems you are just not very bright. Funny you play that nationalist shit while at the same time being a disgrace to your own nation.
I live in the central europe and I have plenty of historical data about every country that was part of the Soviet Union being authoritarian at the same time. You probably couldn’t imagine what was happening here. I don’t have so much knowledge about the rest of the world, but I think I heard about some genocide and concentration camps in china recently…
No. They are not equal and neither same. If you understand Italian I suggest you to search for Prof. Barbero videos on the topic. They are quite better than anything I’ll be able to convey.
Fascism:
It’s an authoritarian dictatorship happened between 1914 and 1945 in Italy. The fascist regime and ideology was strictly based on Mussolini’s figure, people marched in straight lines down the streets, everyone wearing the same uniforms and Italy was a great imperialist nation (lol jk it wasn’t but they quite believed it). Fascism and the fascist party stopped existing after partisans overthrew the regime. Fascism is a 20 years long dictatorship. After that there were some regimes around the world that were inspired by Mussolini such as the current ruling party Italy Fratelli d’Italia, Marine le Pen’s party in France, those shitty AFD in Germany, orban’s Regime, franco in Spain etc etc. They are called neofascists, because Fascism was a 20 years long regime happened in Italy between 1914 and 1945.
Communism:
Communism is a model of governace that’s never been achieved in human history, as someone above said it’s about classless, stateless, governance models. It’s been around for like 200 years (the Communist Party Manifesto is from 1848), and in every country of the world there is/ has been a Communist Party and as we know they were always persecuted for being communist, stopped from going to the government and stopped from bulding a classless society when they managed to get to govern. Just see what the USA did in the last 50/60 years in every country that risked a communist government: Chile and latin America in general, Italy and so on an so forth.
Fascism =/= communism, and if you say the contrary you just don’t know how they work.
My understanding is that these days people treat it more like an ideal to strive toward under current democratic systems. For instance, how would you feel about UBI being introduced under your current system of governance?
Then what is it? A teapot in the sky?
If it's a viable plan which can be realized, then how to achieve it, without killing people and creating a dictatorship? Is it possible?
I might be wrong, but it seems to me that any effort to establish communism will eventually fail with a lot paid in vain, and many lives lost, as has happened so far.
If that viable plan needs time to be accepted more widely, then maybe we should simply wait and try to be decent people in the meantime, instead of trying now to establish a "temporary" dictatorship actively as a way of "transition". And if the plan can be acted upon right now, then again the question is how (without resorting to violence and tyranny, of course). That question remains open to me. And it's a big one.
Sorry then, I should have written In every other country ruled by communists saying they are building communism, banning every other political party then the communist one, killing people in the name of communism. I see their unability to achieve communism even when they’ve had full control over country for decades as a proof of that it’s not really possible.
It is incorrect to say that there was/is communism in the country. There are only countries that trying/tried building communism.
In every other country ruled by communists saying they are building communism, banning every other political party then the communist one, killing people in the name of communism
Having a single party is the one of several approaches. But the only one that survived. I think the idea is that you don’t need other parties if you building communism (like why do you need any liberal party driven by rich people?). And It’s not like regular people can’t join this party (unlike now when only rich people can be in politics).
proof of that it’s not really possible.
I’m not saying that it’s possible, but I wouldn’t say that it’s impossible given a certain level of technology.
Pretty much Lemmy. I grew up in a communist civil war, hosing blood off my sidewalk was a weekly chore, the neighbors vanishing cause they pissed someone off and were labeled red. But yeah, Lemmy teens, you guys know all about it! /S
Did you still use money to buy goods and services? Was your father able to do speak up at work? Change jobs? Go on vacations?
Just because something called itself communism didn’t make it communism. The state owning everything is the opposite of communism. In extreme communism, there isn’t even a damn state as we know it.
The people in the Democratic Peoples’ Republic of Korea do not live in a democracy nor a republic.
The ussr may not have been communist, but it was definitely the initial goal. The idea of a revolution that leads to a dictatorship of the proletariat is inherently flawed. You just end up replacing a corrupt government with another corrupt government.
Revolutions in general are only really good for replacing dictatorships and monarchies, it’s kind of like re-rolling your government with a high chance of getting the worst kind, so you only use it when your government is already the worst kind. Usually, Power Vacuum’s just get filled by whoever has the most military might.
In many ways, yes. It is absolutely an ideal that is not compatible with current reality.
That’s why anyone who’s remotely realistic about it understands it’s an end state of pushing for anarcho-socialistic policies, one that maybe cannot be achieved. Like saying, “Humanity will walk on the moon.” when it’s 1910. Conceivable? Kinda’. Possible? Hell no.
Well it’s the same for the free market really. On paper it’s a nice idea, but in practice it makes the world miserable because people are, in general, fucking selfish assholes.
This certainly never happens with liberalism. Africa has never seen war since democracy and liberalism freed it obviously. And putin is the prime example of a communist I guess.
You don’t want YouTube + YouTube music but you want Spotify + YouTube? I abandoned Spotify the second YouTube Premium was introduced in my country. I loved Spotify. I started using it back when it was invite only. YouTube Music is worse for sure, but it’s good enough and a lot cheaper.
Android has Revanced for YT Music, which is what I use. Only thing I miss out on from premium is the automatic local caching of tracks (called downloading officially). But I just use a different app to download music from youtube playlists as mp3 files if I really need them offline.
An easy answer, Spotify are where my friends hang around. I would not have any second thoughts to drop Spotify, but for me I love to share playlists, tracks etc with family and friends.
As general nobody use YouTube music here in Sweden.
I know. I’m also from Sweden. Everyone uses Spotify. We were such early adopters on a very broad scale it very quickly became a standard. I don’t know anyone who uses YouTube Music except myself. Yes you can’t share songs or playlists but I realised when I couldn’t do it that I didn’t really miss doing it either. I can still send my friends a text about new songs I like. I dunno. To each their own I guess.
I stopped paying for YouTube the moment Google killed Google Play Music and forced YouTube Music on me. Now Google gets no money from me and Apple does because they still offer a true music library service.
Cats have someone that will feed and house them, provide toys, scritches and pettings, catnip and medical care their entire lives for nothing. They dont have a job to worry about or bills to pay. They dont have to care about politics or how the world is on fire, they just hang out with other cats and people that spoil them their entire lives. We on the other hand, have bills to pay, a soul sucking job to go to 8+ hours a day, 50 weeks a year until were so old we cant do that anymore then we spend maybe a decade or two falling apart medically speaking until we stop forever.
Who is actually the dumb animal here? And before someone mentions their cat doing something dumb, I bet you know a person thats done something even stupider.
I’d agree, but cats are also too dumb to do anything Else except hunt, shit and sleep. I know we are all on the ‘humans are trash’ train rn, but we are still exponentially more intelligent than anything else around us.
Our advantages come down to incremental improvement. Thog takes a rock and splits it into sharp af edges and now hes got a hand axe. Ogg takes another rock, splits it into sharp bits (or not) and uses sinue or twine to attach it to a stick. now they could have a number of different tools. Nog figures out they can tan hide using astringent plants they soaked and exposed the hide to and now theyve got primitive clothing. But most people… would struggle if they had to survive without all that technology. Cats… can survive off hunting birds and rodents. They do such a good job of it that theyve wiped out the 2nd most species on the planet aside from us. And keep in mind these are housecats not wild cats or strays. Itd be like some dude living in suburbia going to the mountains and killing everything with his bare hands or whatever tools he could cobble together from the materials he found there. Most people… would probably die of exposure, starvation or wild animals like bears and mountain lions if they tried that. We do as well as we do despite this because we improve generation after generation. Thats it. That’s our advantage.
Kinda and not really, simultaneously. We are good at adapting and we have a really high ceiling intelligence-wise (at least compared to other species). Cats will never have the capability for building houses, cars or space shuttles. They just don’t have the capacity. Neither do birds, fish or any other species, except us.
It’s kinda ridiculous to tell yourself that’s not true, just look around yourself. We might still be dumb apes after all, but still we are a million times smarter than a cat or an eagle. If we wanted, we could wipe out all life on the planet, and there is nothing any animal could do about it. It’s cruel and I obviously don’t want that, but it’s the truth.
I had a similar conversation with my wife the other day, but then took one thing into account that you missed. I cut my cat’s balls off as a condition for him living in my house.
Would you do the same to avoid all the shit that comes along with being a stressed out human?
It shocked me the first time I met a real anti-Semite, in real life, in Tennessee. I’ve worked in a lot of places all over the world and I’ve seen plenty of racism. No one else topped that guy in Tennessee. Other places racism was mostly contained to ‘they stay over there and we stay over here.’ Tons of problems but living together but apart was possible. That doesn’t speak to every experience obviously. That old guy in Tennessee wanted another Holocaust, plain and simple. Anywhere else he’d get the shit kicked out of him, there it was tolerated.
Had someone try to sell me on the merits of the Ku Klux Klan while working at a factory in Tennessee, I was a staunch Libertarian at the time so i guess he thought i might bite, he told me how they helped the community out and kept people safe… the guy was dead fucking serious, and when I asked him about them being racist he just changed the subject… Still feels like a fever dream…
To show how pervasive the racist Southerner stereotype is: I was in Hawaii and met a guy from New Zealand. He noticed my accent and asked where I’m from and this happened:
ME: I’m from North Carolina
HIM: Oh really? Cool! Hey, whaddya call a n****r with a new bicycle?
I guess that’s his version of Americans saying “g’day mate!”
I suspect the NZ bloke was racist and immediately linked all Southern Americans with racism, so felt comfortable opening up.
Ngl as a non-american if I met a dude in a bar and he’s was from ‘the south’ especially Texas or Florida I would be sitting there expecting some kind of anti-‘woke’, anti-minority, anti-women, anti-brown comment eventually. At least until I had sussed him out for a bit
Can confirm. I’m a 6’4 big bearded mountain looking fucker in the Bible belt, and people REGULARLY think “he agrees with me about this painfully mundane thing so surely he agrees with me that trans people need to shut up and dress appropriately (or whatever)” They’ll often be saying the quiet part to me out loud within 5 minutes of shooting the bull with a total stranger.
I drove through Alabama once. That was enough. What a shit stain state? Experience the racism there, even if sort of second hand, was surreal. Sucks I know some people that were forced to move there.
So I decided while playing Fallout 4 (around the time it came out) that I was going to try to break this habit, because it meant I never got to use any of the cool shit.
I made this decision while retaking the castle, fighting the queen crab thing. I used all the mini nukes I had on it.
Those who have played the game knows what happens next... after killing the queen, the king emerges. Way bigger, way harder to kill.
I've been a hardcore no exceptions hoarder ever since
Maybe I’m having a mandela effect moment but I don’t remember a “way bigger, way harder to kill” mirelurk king after the queen. The mirelurk king in-game is the size of a deathclaw tops and I think it’s stats are definitely weaker when compared to the queens. Is there a special one that spawns after the queen that I am forgetting?
That’s just a higher level variation of the normal mirelurk king. Just like an albino deathclaw is a higher level variation of the normal one. Also the mirelurk deep kings stats on the wiki are still lower than the queens.
Meanwhile I want us to work on things that are actually personally fulfilling, instead of earning imaginary money for rich assholes to abuse and hold us down with.
If we were working on what we wanted to do, we’d do it as much as we had energy for. That might be once a week, or it might be every waking hour for 6+ months.
The important bit is “days per week” would be 0+. This is what I want for everyone. It’s why I fully support a UBI, along with socialized healthcare and housing.
You want to spend your time doing nothing but raise your kids? Great, do that super well and don’t worry about the “lost” income. You want to make art? Awesome, do it! You want to engineer a bridge, teach, be a doctor or nurse, grow crops, etc? We need that too, and in addition to your base UBI money you get extra for doing a socially needed job. Good for you!
If you like what you hear, you should look into, and support, politicians who support a UBI (universal basic income) in your region!
But bear in mind that a UBI alone isn’t enough; because capitalism encourages greed, we also (regardless where you live) need socialized housing so landlords don’t just eat the full entitlement, and socialized healthcare so people can keep themselves healthy to do the things they want without going bankrupt. Those are by far the biggest spends for most people, and if we could get that in check, a UBI is a great equalizer, and could pull millions of households out of the worst of poverty.
It’s good for disabled people, so they can be much more independent, it’s good for retired people, so they can retire without worry, it’s good for parents, so they don’t have to choose between supporting the family and actually raising the family, and it’s good for society as a whole because those “nonproductives” now have economy stimulation power by not being flat broke.
If I didn't have to work, I'd probably end up doing the same job I am now but for schools and local government, rather than for large companies. And I'd also be doing things like building and maintaining community gardens, or teaching anyone who wanted to learn what I know, because then there's more people to help me out and I can relax more.
Personally I’d love to help with community gardening initiatives… sort of.
I’m presently working on an indoor root crop system for urban dwellers, just as a hobby. I don’t actually want to profit off it, I want to develop it to help fix the world, but with the present system, I feel the absolute need to monetize it in some way, which is anathema to how I want to exist and it being low cost and accessible for low income households.
Capitalism hinders progress. It’s really sad and demoralizing.
I’m going to release it for free anyway when it’s done - when it’s a reproducible system and not just an interdependent idea - but it’s never going to benefit me, and that sucks because I’m poor lol
You could release the ideas and techniques but patent it to protect from commercial theft. then sell licensing and expertise while making it easy for lower income people to utilize what you make.
That’s something I’ve thought about, as well as making a companion cooking series (recipes to use what you grow sort of thing), or hands-on/ongoing troubleshooting…
I just barely have the energy to make and test the thing in the first place, after years of planning out how to optimize it and testing lesser variations (which means if I get the last iteration balanced, it will work for anyone with minimal input. I’m super irresponsible. I do have a few more responsible testers lined up, however. For reproducibility.) and I definitely don’t know where to go for help that won’t screw me over for a fee I can’t afford 😅
You don’t want to collect trash off the streets? Well, looks like our city will look like shit forever. You don’t want to work as a cashier? Well, looks like our supermarkets will remain closed.
Most jobs are not fulfilling and would never be done voluntarily (at a relevant scale).
The UBI (universal basic income) is intended to meet basic needs, it’s not intended to give a lavish life. If you want more than the basic, you need to work a bit for it.
What it would do for work is to make it optional and more flexible. If your employer isn’t paying you enough to be there, you don’t keep working there. You find a different job. You have the security to quit with nothing lined up. Because nobody has to be there to meet their basic needs, employers have to actively make you want to work there for your extra wants to be met.
That means maybe a store clerk gets a discount on goods in addition to their flexible hours per week.
But ultimately a shift to UBI plus socialized housing and socialized healthcare would lead to a shift in society such that we don’t have the bullshit jobs we do now, and a lot more people would probably be happy to do menial society supporting labor as part of a rotation. Idk, frankly I’ve met people, they don’t mind doing grunt work if it’s appreciated and valued.
If my bills were paid and I had to cashier or collect trash 2 days a week to keep society running (and for some extra spending, like for electronics or games or whatever) I would totally do so. It’s not my full time occupation, which makes it infinitely more desirable.
I can’t really capture an entire economic shift in one digestible comment, but a lot of stuff would necessarily change to accommodate this shift. It’s not a business as usual proposal, so you can’t really apply a business as usual mindset to it.
While I think UBI is a good direction for us to head towards as a society, I have a feeling megacorps would just skyjack the prices of pretty much everything to negate the benefits of UBI (look what happened during the pandemic). We would need some kind of legislated regulatory shift as well that would inhibit price gouging just for because there is more money floating through the economy.
You are probably correct in that racketeering would need to be reigned in, but I don’t really think it’s all that impactful over housing and medical.
We already have what you are using as a worst case, it’s just fully legal and uncontrolled. Rent and medical has been inflating for years for no reason. Because the proletariat can handle it (even though we can’t).
Literally because they aren’t treated with respect in our society, while actively keeping our society functional. Cashier’s are Literally in the process of becoming obsolete in our Modern Society. Wake up! Ding dong! Ding Dong!
Fwiw, I’d love to see cashiering eliminated as a position. We have the tech for it already and honestly only keep humans doing it because we need to keep human labor up (capitalism and “reasons”).
There is no reason whatever to keep that position huminated (as opposed to automated), other than driving up employment. And maybe reducing loss through theft, but if there was less meaningless junk everywhere that would be less of an issue overall… plus people wouldn’t be destitute and could pay for it…
We voluntarily do plenty of distasteful tasks, even without any expectation of a non-economic reward. Lemmy moderation is a salient example.
I’ve got other gripes about UBI, and especially about pinning the hopes of a “purely voluntary (but with asterisks)” workforce onto it… but there really is no telling how we would behave if we tried this experiment.
For every study suggesting that Hardin’s “tragedy of the commons” is actually a legit thing (even though Hardin was later exposed as an academic fraud who fabricated his theory because of his white supremacist, eugenicist political agenda), there is another study suggesting that we’re actually historically really, really good at managing commons and that perhaps capitalist framing only gets in the way of the cooperation that we’re predisposed toward.
There’s also not any evidence that we settled into our modern capitalist model due to any sort of societal optimization. All of the theoretical reasons why an economic abstraction may be an advantage over a social gift economy don’t really hold up when you look at historical or contemporaneous accounts of actual gift economies. It seems like the only reason we ended up with this model is because it was advantageous for several waves of wealthy rulers who needed ways to translate their violence-based power into legal power or else lose it.
You don’t want to collect trash off the streets? Well, looks like our city will look like shit forever. You don’t want to work as a cashier? Well, looks like our supermarkets will remain closed.
Every time I read this I just hear loud licking sounds. bootlicker
How about paying those people enough that they want to do those jobs?
In many countries, your basic needs are already fully met no matter which job you do.
E.g. in Germany working minimum wage full time gets you way more money than you need.
Minimum wage full time gets you about 2160€ before tax, which will be about 1650€ after tax (and healthcare etc.).
You can easily pay for your basic needs for less than half of that (even when living alone). The rest you can use to buy upgrades, like a new phone etc.
Minimum wage workers in Germany are already wealthy.
But of course, if you’d ask the average German minimum wage worker, they’d claim to be poor.
They claim to be poor because they can not afford modern luxury. They can not afford to pay for expensive brands, they can not afford to eat in expensive restaurants.
They can not afford to be lavish.
Now imagine if every person in Germany could afford twice as much (something that happens multiple times in a lifetime). Would they stop considering themselves poor? No, their entitlement would simply rise accordingly (as we’ve seen again and again throughout the thousands of years of history).
You can not pay people “enough”. People do not care about their individual wealth. They only care about how wealthy they are compared to others.
The majority of people can never be wealthy, because people only consider themselves wealthy if they have someone (or rather many) to look down upon.
You’re demanding an exact boundary while offering nothing in return but an avalanche of vague imprecise claims with no sources cited.
You can not pay people “enough”. People do not care about their individual wealth. They only care about how wealthy they are compared to others.
The majority of people can never be wealthy, because people only consider themselves wealthy if they have someone (or rather many) to look down upon.
Speak for yourself and only yourself. You don’t speak for me. You don’t speak for the people I call friends. You only speak for a narrow “keeping up with the Joneses” sort of American asshole that is actually getting a bit rarer as boomers slowly die off and not enough young people echo that ideology to sustain it.
Save your “all human beings are exactly the same way, therefore capitalism good” naturalistic bullshit claims for reddit-logo and for that matter save your bootlicking apologia for there, too.
Lastly, what are you arguing for? That it’s cool and good to underpay people that do the most unpleasant (and in many cases, most important for society’s ongoing functioning) tasks because of some biotruthy sophistry about how no amount of pay would be enough therefore underpaying them is good? Or extending your argument to its conclusion, if it’s just “how much compared to everyone else” that matters, you are seriously arguing for everyone to get paid less if they aren’t in some exclusive very special secret club of very special elite people (that you probably include yourself into)? Fuck that.
As cited above, the GDP per capita in Germany doubles every few years.
How many times more do you think it has to be doubled until you and your friends deem themselves wealthy.
They never will. Because you, too, define wealth as being able to look down on others (in your social environment).
A large part of the world’s population would consider themselves extremely wealthy if they had even near the income of a German worker earning minimum wage.
On a global scale, German minimum wage workers are very, very wealthy.
The only reason you’d ever consider German minimum wage to be too little is if you’re used to extreme excess, if you’ve lived in a hyper wealthy environment all your life.
You’re so used to extreme wealth, that you deem slightly less extreme wealth to be poverty. You consider it to be poverty, because the people surrounding you are even wealthier. You consider it poverty, because you can not look down on them.
Oh, so you’re one of those smug (ethno)nationaist chuds that think that people in the United States that are one missed paycheck from homelessness, or are already homeless and are in physical decline from exposure and preventable illness are actually spoiled because some numbers on a screen say that that homeless person is actually a recipient of extreme wealth due to location while completely ignoring cost of living expenses because it doesn’t fit the numbers you want.
You’re way too far up your own ass to argue with, and you probably have goosestepping lessons to keep up with for the big plans you and yours have for your glorious fatherland in the future.
Most jobs are not fulfilling and would never be done voluntarily (at a relevant scale).
What is your glorious German superiority proposal for those “not fulfilling” jobs, then? Slavery? The US prison system might excite and thrill you if you look into it. scared-fash
What is your glorious German superiority proposal for those “not fulfilling” jobs, then?
The current system.
ignoring cost of living expenses
I don’t have detailed knowledge of the US economy, which is why I keep using Germany as an example.
In Germany you are never one paycheck away from being homeless unless you’re actively wasting money. As said before, 800€ is more than enough to live alone in an apartment. And you make more than double that (in the worst case).
I don’t have detailed knowledge of the US economy, which is why I keep using Germany as an example.
You only have arrogant presumptions about rich the United States ostensibly is, while ignoring that a tiny percentage of the population actually benefits from those riches and the rest experience staggeringly higher cost of living, especially for things like medical care and housing.
In Germany you are never one paycheck away from being homeless unless you’re actively wasting money. As said before, 800€ is more than enough to live alone in an apartment. And you make more than double that (in the worst case).
Again, you’ve admitted your ignorance about the United States there, and the situation of hundreds of millions of people that live in it that are not functionally wealthy in a material way that they actually experience.
And once again, “the current system” is failing those people and no amount of being smugly content with a status quo that is unsustainably bad for people in the United States that scrub toilets, drive ambulances, or provide CNA services to hospital patients does those people any good.
Again, you’ve admitted your ignorance about the United States there, and the situation of hundreds of millions of people that live in it that are not functionally wealthy in a material way that they actually experience.
I am indeed ignorant about the United States. This may surprise you, but I don’t know about every economy around the world. I’m sure you don’t either.
But I do know that a capitalist system can work well without UBI, as proven by the German system.
(Yes, I will keep using the German system as an example.)
“the current system” is failing those people and no amount of being smug about how status quo poverty for people that scrub toilets and pick fruit is somehow a good thing will change that.
As long as we haven’t fully automated it, people will have to scrub toilets and pick fruits in any econonic system. What you wish for is for them to not be poor. Which they aren’t (in Germany).
ignoring that a tiny percentage of the population actually benefits from those riches and the rest experience staggeringly higher cost of living
Are you claiming that people’s actual wealth has not gone up in the past 50 years? That we don’t eat better regulated food, that we don’t own very advanced devices, that we don’t eat food shipped from across the world?
Normal people’s wealth does keep growing. That is a very obvious fact. You may claim that it doesn’t grow fast enough, but it does grow.
No shit. And you were making vast and bold status quo warrior declarations upon a foundation of that ignorance.
This may surprise you
It only surprises me that you came here and made those claims with that much ignorance to begin with. I made no such claims about Germany, but you certainly did about the United States, again, in support of your enthusiasm for the status quo.
As long as we haven’t fully automated it, people will have to scrub toilets and pick fruits in any econonic system. What you wish for is for them to not be poor. Which they aren’t (in Germany).
And according to your smug status quo advocacy, those people getting any more pay or being treated with any more dignity is bad because… Germany is so glorious to you. Which somehow justifies the status quo worldwide.
Are you claiming that people’s actual wealth has not gone up in the past 50 years?
It is far from evenly distributed and is steeply tilted by the staggering increase of wealth in the billionaire class.
If you bent down and talked to someone sleeping in the street (as the rate of homelessness now rises here), told them how their wealth has gone up, actually, with a probably smug look on your face, you shouldn’t be surprised if you get spat on.
I made no such claims about Germany, but you certainly did about the United States
Can you please quote where I did that? Because I never made any global claim. I always referred either to “many countries” or “Germany”, neither of which explicitly include the USA.
And according to your smug status quo advocacy, those people getting any more pay or being treated with any more dignity is bad
They can get paid more. But they’re already dignified and already well paid (in Germany).
If you bent down and talked to someone sleeping in the street (as the rate of homelessness now rises here)
Where is “here”? Some country which didn’t manage to implement capitalism successfully? I never claimed that calitalism does work everywhere, I claimed that can work everywhere.
Maybe US capitalism is shit. But it can work well without UBI (as proven by, you guessed it, Germany).
Smug status quo liberals like you phrase their bad faith questions like that all the time, but just in case you will surprise me, here.
In Germany you are never one paycheck away from being homeless unless you’re actively wasting money. As said before, 800€ is more than enough to live alone in an apartment. And you make more than double that (in the worst case).
As cited above, the GDP per capita in Germany doubles every few years.
How many times more do you think it has to be doubled until you and your friends deem themselves wealthy.
They never will. Because you, too, define wealth as being able to look down on others (in your social environment).
A large part of the world’s population would consider themselves extremely wealthy if they had even near the income of a German worker earning minimum wage.
On a global scale, German minimum wage workers are very, very wealthy.
The only reason you’d ever consider German minimum wage to be too little is if you’re used to extreme excess, if you’ve lived in a hyper wealthy environment all your life.
You’re so used to extreme wealth, that you deem slightly less extreme wealth to be poverty. You consider it to be poverty, because the people surrounding you are even wealthier. You consider it poverty, because you can not look down on them.
You are obnoxiously ignorant of living situations outside of your own to the point that you prescribe maintaining the status quo to people you don’t know that don’t live anywhere near you do. You made the extraordinary claims, not me.
Maybe US capitalism is shit. But it can work well without UBI (as proven by, you guessed it, Germany).
Again, your ignorance is showing, paired once again with your arrogance. It is not working for most other people and no amount of being smug about you getting yours changes that for most other people.
Further, what about the status quo makes you so happy about people being paid less than a sustainable living to scrub toilets and pick fruit? Why is that so necessary to you? Well, besides you having a disgustingly privileged point of view where people toiling for almost nothing is cool and good because GLORIOUS GERMANY.
Can you please quote where I [made a claim about the USA]?
Smug status quo liberals like you phrase their bad faith questions like that all the time, but just in case you will surprise me, here.
[lots of quotes]
I’m sorry, I don’t see where I explicitly mentioned the USA in those quotes.
Was it “A large part of the world’s population”? (Note that it doesn’t say “the entire world’s population”.)
You are obnoxiously ignorant of living situations outside of your own to the point that you prescribe maintaining the status quo to people you don’t know that don’t live anywhere near you do. You made the extraordinary claims, not me.
okay
Again, your ignorance is showing, paired once again with your arrogance.
sure
It is not working for most other people
Again, I never claimed that capitalism is well implemented everywhere. I only claimed that
I assumed bad faith questioning and goalpost moving, and that’s exactly what I got from you because your arguments have nothing to stand on. You wanted to narrow in on some pedantic Reddit-tier bullshit because your failure to understand that GDP has massive blindspots as an actual measure of how most people live in any given country.
Again, your arrogance and ignorance (by your own admission) about how other nations are going, all to justify unlivable wages for people doing essential but underpaid and underappreciated jobs, is quite frankly monstrous and you’ve provided nothing to justify that status quo but your own arrogance and your own ignorance.
You got yours. Congratulations. The status quo isn’t supported well by smug arrogant people like you stanning for it with nothing to offer but statements of “I got mine.” That’s a good thing, because the status quo is shit and is failing far more people in the world right now than it is benefiting.
goalpost moving […] is exactly what I got from you
I’m not sure whether you believe to be arguing without moving goalposts. Do you want me to tell you about some goalposts you moved? (E.g. asking me to apply my statements regarding Germany to all countries, including the USA.)
all to justify unlivable wages
Oh, the people in Germany (whom I was talking about all along) are living just fine.
the status quo is shit and failing far more people in the world right now than it is benefiting
Perhaps. Good thing I never claimed the status quo to be successful in all countries.
You’re dodging the consequences of your own claims so quickly that all I see is a blur of denial.
You started from a position of arrogance and ignorance. You cited GDP as if billionaires and their ever larger share of the total GDP take don’t matter and that poverty in other countries than your own simply can not exist in a way you understand because that shiny GDP number says otherwise.
You said that both increasing wages and any sort of UBI are wrong. You gave no real justification except “you got yours.”
Arguing with you further is like wrestling a pig in shit.
Enjoy rolling in the shit and oinking in it. Win a last word game if you must, because there is nothing to your argument but “you got yours” and blatant ignorance about the rest of the world.
lemmy.ml
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