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lemmy.ml

Tvkan , to memes in Earth has a cold

me happy about the cold winter, happy earth can cool down for a moment

Am I missing something here or is OP not aware that winter isn’t everywhere at the same time, and that tropical regions don’t follow these “classical” (for lack of a better term) seasons at all?

Obviously climate change is bad and all that, but the upper caption makes no sense.

Samsy OP ,

Memes aren’t anytime exactly from the op opinion. Sometimes its just something you catch from people talking stuff.

In this case it was my “I’m really fun at parties"-comment that it is so hot in brazil right now.

SpaceNoodle ,

Do you have any dressing for that word salad?

EmpathicVagrant ,

Do we have a word salad community?

ChaoticNeutralCzech ,
Tvkan ,

TL;DR: OP didn’t know that winter isn’t everywhere at the same time.

neptune , to memes in Happy Sunday

It’s almost like “hate the sin” means “judge people” which is something god did politely ask us not to do.

Grayox OP ,
@Grayox@lemmy.ml avatar

God: Judge not lest ye be Judged.

Evangelicals: So anyways, I started Judgeing.

RedditRefugee69 , (edited )

The only thing I will say is that this can be a bridge behavior. If we at least get them to think with love and caring. If they believe I am going to hell, I at least want them to feel like they wouldn’t do the same if they were in charge

In the internet and isolated from people who have different beliefs, it’s easy to forget that compromise is the only way forward without violence. In this case, not compromising freedom nor equality, but what you’re willing to tolerate in someone else’s beliefs

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one avatar

Ok and we shouldn’t be willing to tolerate someone believing LGBT+ is dirty or sinful. That’s a belief that causes much harm. Imagine a trans child having to grow up in a home with parents who tell them it is a sin. LGBTphobia leads to abuse, all the time, so we should not tolerate it.

Saying we should simply compromise is some blind privilege if I’ve ever seen it.

RedditRefugee69 ,

Look, I completely agree, but what alternative solution are you proposing? Violence? Or do you think memes will change their mind?

mayoi ,

Violence has never not worked.

Seasoned_Greetings ,

What a short sighted world view. There are so many people in prison explicitly because violence doesn’t work

Darkenfolk ,

They just didn’t use enough violence ¯_(ツ)_/¯

BabyVi ,

In my experience the bigots tend to view it as a bridge the other way. It let’s them feel like they care whilst still pushing a destructive agenda. There is no compromise on the table, they just want you to submit.

AVincentInSpace ,

I do not know how to explain to you that there can be no compromise between someone who wants to do or be a thing and a person who wants to make doing/being that thing illegal

RedditRefugee69 ,

There’s space between “it’s against my religion” and “make it illegal for everybody else”. Compromise is the former and leaving it at that

fastandcurious ,
@fastandcurious@lemmy.world avatar

True, if you aren’t abusive/hateful, i can respect your beliefs and our differences…

PeleSpirit , to memes in Inspired by reading everyday news

What’s weird to me is, the dark ages weren’t dark for the Middle East, they kept on learning and expanding. What’s in a name and all that.

lolcatnip ,

Historians of the medieval era hate the term “dark ages”, even in relation to Europe. The whole notion that the Roman Empire went poof one day and then everything sucked for 1000 years is just cartoonishly wrong.

Speiser0 ,

I once heard in some history tv show that it’s called “dark ages” not because of the bad living conditions, but because we know so few things about it, compared to other history periods.

ToastyMedic ,

Only a little unfortunate they skipped the enlightenment, akin to what Europe had.

PeleSpirit ,

They didn’t skip it, the enlightenment was a continuation of what they came up with. I’m pretty sure they didn’t deny the earth is round and the sun is the center of our galaxy.

ToastyMedic ,

That’s not what it was, not by a long shot, but alright.

PeleSpirit ,

Now you’ve got me curious, what do you think they didn’t continue? The art wasn’t the same, is that it? We should be very thankful they saved a lot of knowledge that could have been lost.

ToastyMedic ,

What the hell are you talking about? I’m talking about enlightenment, you know, the explosion of philosophy in the 17th century?such as the explosion of liberalism, ideas of socialism, The theories of government, American and french revolution, ect.

PeleSpirit ,

So science wasn’t part of it?

decisivelyhoodnoises ,
@decisivelyhoodnoises@sh.itjust.works avatar

I seriously believe you’ve messed up the years

hungryphrog ,

Medieval people thinking the Earth was flat is a myth that was made up during the Age of Enlightenment.

PeleSpirit ,

Hmmm, the minions probably did think the earth was flat since that’s what the church told them. Definitely, most of the thinkers of that time knew it wasn’t and were told to keep it hush hush or there would be harsh punishment. It’s not a one size fits all kind of thing, and just like everything else, it’s complicated.

hungryphrog ,

That is a myth that has been debunked a long time ago. In fact, the Earth being round was discovered in antiquity and Eratosthenes measured the Earth’s circumference almost accurately in about 240 BC.

decisivelyhoodnoises ,
@decisivelyhoodnoises@sh.itjust.works avatar

Sorry what learning and expanding are you talking about? Can you please be specific about which years and give a source?

tryptaminev ,

pretty much everything between ~600 and 1900 and pretty much everywhere from Morrocco to Turkey to Iran.

Just read up on Moors, Ottomans, Iranians, Mail Empire, Islamic culture, science and arts…

A lot of it in Palestine got destroyed by the savage European crusaders though.

Shieldtoad , to cat in Sniff sniff sniff

My cat likes to rub his head on everything I show him.

sigh ,
@sigh@lemmy.world avatar

That thing? It belongs to your cat now

SgtAStrawberry ,

Mine does the same, except that he also tries to show the thing into his ear.

PlantJam ,

No smell, but maybe sound? Only one way to find out for sure.

SgtAStrawberry ,

Most be

VikingHippie ,

One of mine sometimes has to be physically pushed away several times to stop her from rubbing her head on anything I’m holding, including game controllers 😂

XTL ,
  1. Does it smell like food? No. No action needed.
  2. Does it smell like cat? No. Fixing that right now.
  3. My work here is done.
GoosLife , to cat in Assassin's Kitty

Is that legit?

Breezy ,

If it is, then honestly thats pretty cool. But its ubisoft, so i assume this is fake.

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

I assumed it was a mod

SkyeStarfall ,

While Ubisoft itself is just a company seeking to maximize profits, many workers there likely do have at least some passion for what they do. It’s not unheard of that devs do small cool stuff like this.

Breezy ,

I agree that is probably(maybe) correct, yet i cant help to think every company similar would just suck the passion and will from their employees. I just dont see them being allowed to put in passion projects in their games since theres the next years edition.

I say that as a biased individual, i havemt played an assassins creed since unity. I pretty much cut out all ubisoft games untill they release splinter cell, ill come back to them if its good.

zerfuffle , (edited ) to worldnews in Palestine-Israel Crisis Megathread

US tells 2,000 troops to be prepared to DEPLOY to the Middle East as second aircraft carrier is moved to the Mediterranean and Israel’s ground invasion of Gaza nears

I love when the US helps to deescalate a situation! I’m sure no US troops will be hit by any strikes to justify direct US intervention in this conflict.

The US is going to push us straight into a world war with their mismanagement of this conflict.

ferristriangle ,

mismanagement

When talking about the US, it’s more often correct to assume malice rather than incompetence

TheBroodian ,

Absolutely right

BingoBangoBongo ,

However the US government has plenty of both!

Karyoplasma ,

The chance of a World War III happening is significantly higher by escalating the UA-RUS war than this. Palestine has no allies and they have been cornered for years. US just secures a clean genocide.

zerfuffle ,

Ukraine isn’t NATO and the West has given every indication that they see it as a proxy war with Russia. Israel is already dragging in the US, and risks dragging in Iran, which would force the Arab World to choose sides.

Karyoplasma ,

How is Iran joining forcing the Arab world to choose sides? Iran is not well liked in the Arab world. Most of them would probably prefer if Iran goes down with Palestine and wouldn’t care much. At least not the Saudis, Iraq and Pakistan. Don’t think Egypt is too hot for Iran either.

zerfuffle ,

Iran-Saudi talked for the first time in forever to align on this

HootinNHollerin ,
@HootinNHollerin@sh.itjust.works avatar

Zerfuffle acct is days old with all > thousand comments solely on this conflict and only post being from ccp propaganda site global times

Karyoplasma ,

Yeah, clearly a propaganda account and not a very good one at that. The pre-typed, scripted lines and the emotionally charged language are kind of a dead give-away. I would be ashamed paying someone that does such a poor job, honestly lol

TheSanSabaSongbird ,

Iran is Persian, not Arab. They are also currently engaged in a power struggle by proxy with the KSA, ostensibly to determine which of them will become the region’s dominant power. There is no world in which KSA sides with Iran, and as they go (MBS really) so go most of the other big players in the Arab world.

MisterScruffy ,
foo2 ,

Iran, or rather the Iranian government, is one of the major players in this conflict. They are financing Hamas and Hezbollah. It is plainly false to say it was Israel that “risks dragging in Iran”.

LarkinDePark ,

There’s some speculation that they’re bringing in the big guns to open up the Syrian theatre again, with Russia.

blackn1ght ,

What fucking help does Israel need for fucks sake.

masquenox ,

It’s pretty obvious… the myth of Israeli invulnerability turned out to be just that… mythical. The Palestinians have done a good job proving that.

doom_and_gloom ,
@doom_and_gloom@lemmy.ml avatar

I have to assume they spent all of the aid they received on corruption and propaganda.

pingveno ,

I talked to an Israeli (we were both vacationing in Vancouver, BC). There never was a feeling of invulnerability, but rather of containment and a tolerable level. Hamas would lob some rockets over the border, the Iron Dome would shoot them down, maybe some would get through. You learn to live with a certain amount of risk.

What this attack shattered was the feeling that Hamas is a threat that could simply be managed and ignored. It should also shatter the illusion that continued mistreatment of the Palestinian is a viable way forward. Unfortunately, I think the Israeli leadership will only take the first lesson.

masquenox ,

There never was a feeling of invulnerability, but rather of containment and a tolerable level.

I was referring to the propaganda we were fed about Israel during the Cold War - you can still see it in a lot of right-wing narratives about Israel.

You learn to live with a certain amount of risk.

Here in South Africa, we call it “laager mentality” - in the US, wars fade into the background, but in places like Israel (and Apartheid-South Africa) the “open-ended-war-with-no-end-in-sight” cannot fade into the background. And, eventually, it leads to… consequences.

What this attack shattered was the feeling that Hamas is a threat that could simply be managed and ignored.

It’s not Hamas - it’s Palestinians. Before Hamas it was the PLO, and if Israel (somehow) neutralises Hamas there will be another “big bad” Israelis will have to live in fear of. Israelis know that - they just prefer referring to Hamas to deflect from the fact that their colonial war has always been against the entirety of Palestinians.

But yes… this attack has most definitely shattered the idea of “containment and a tolerable level.”

Unfortunately, I think the Israeli leadership will only take the first lesson.

A colonialist project can only act like a colonialist project - if it doesn’t, the colonialist state must cease to exist in it’s current form and become something else.

pingveno ,

Israel is somewhat weakened right now. Doubtless some countries or organizations are thinking this is the perfect time to take a go at it, regardless of the reality of that situation. The US tossing in an aircraft carrier group - one of which equals the air and naval power of most countries - hopefully tilts that calculus back towards keeping out of any conflict.

Joker ,

It’s about keeping Iran out of it so it doesn’t escalate. Have to demonstrate a willingness to get involved while doing the diplomatic work behind the scenes to de-escalate. They are telling Israel they can have their revenge on Hamas but they need to bring things down a few notches. Don’t occupy Gaza, don’t starve them out, don’t commit war crimes, make an effort to avoid collateral damage, etc. At the same time, they are telling Iran they don’t want a wider conflict but are ready to fuck them sideways if they even think about escalating. Israel doesn’t need any help fighting unless someone else piles on.

mycorrhiza ,

if the US government cared about protecting Palestinians I don’t think we would be in this situation

Joker ,

They don’t. They care about keeping this from escalating into a very dangerous regional conflict with the potential to spread further. Israel is absolutely justified in going after Hamas. What they are actually doing is beyond what a reasonable response would look like. Nobody besides the bad guys cares if Israel goes and kills some terrorists, but they can’t displace a million people who had nothing to do with it and then starve them out. In a matter of days, Israel went from being the victims of a heinous attack to committing war crimes on a massive scale. That can’t be. It makes it hard to support Israel and we also can’t turn our backs on an ally. It’s an untenable political situation for the U.S. and risks a major conflict. The U.S. is serving its own interests.

masquenox ,

Israel is absolutely justified in going after Hamas.

Why? Does Israel want a refund?

zerfuffle ,

How’s that working out for the US?

Starving ✅

War crimes ✅

Collateral damage ✅

The US is toothless and their foreign influence is nonexistent even for a country that’s one of their closest allies.

interolivary ,
@interolivary@beehaw.org avatar

Hey, genocide is hard work! Have some empathy

HootinNHollerin ,
@HootinNHollerin@sh.itjust.works avatar

Zerfuffle acct is days old with all > thousand comments solely on this conflict and only post being from ccp propaganda site global times

AOCapitulator , to worldnews in Palestine-Israel Crisis Megathread
@AOCapitulator@hexbear.net avatar

Israel is doing a genocide, the us and its puppets are funding or arming the genociders, and Europe is banning protests of the genocide.

Western capitalist hegemony is a fascistic death cult that will destroy us all unless we destroy it first, and every day we don’t millions are condemned to horrific deaths

Karyoplasma ,

So far, it was only France that banned pro-Palestinean protests. But the French government is also far right, so it makes sense. Don’t equate their fascism to the rest of Europe, please.

foxinabox ,

I understand its not about Europe but Switzerland banned several protests in big cities as well.

Karyoplasma ,

Really? That honestly surprises me. Also means that I’m not really up-to-date anymore.

foxinabox ,

Apologies for the German Language, it states several were banned, one in the capitol allowed.

nau.ch/…/israel-krieg-bern-erlaubt-palastina-demo…

Karyoplasma ,

I’m German, so no language barrier. Thanks!

Edit: Holy hell, that poll. 65% support the ban of pro-Palestine demos because it’s “too touchy”. Media did a great job programming the public to think “pro-Palestine” is on par with “pro-Hamas”.

masquenox ,

Germany has been one of Israel’s staunchest supporters all throughout the Cold War - despite the fact that Germany’s security services have been festering swamps of nazi-ideology before all the WW2 rubble had been carted away.

Karyoplasma ,

The link is to a Swiss newspaper tho, which is why I was surprised.

One of the largest worker unions in Germany (ver.di) proudly and openly proclaims that they stand with Israel and they have been doing that for years. Now why are they doing this instead of focusing on their actual purpose? Senseless activism to avoid being labeled as nazis. In Germany, being a nazi is way worse than supporting a genocide.

masquenox ,

Senseless activism to avoid being labeled as nazis.

The fact that it’s even possible to conflate criticism with Israel with anitsemitism just shows to what extent the west has avoided dealing with it’s own antisemitism - most westerners don’t seem to have the foggiest idea what it even is or isn’t. I wonder why the Apartheid-regime never tried deflecting criticism of itself by blaming everyone else of “reverse racism”…

masquenox ,

Every country in Europe is flirting with overt far-right ideology… as opposed to just nurturing it covertly (which is the normal state of affairs for Europe, it seems).

cosecantphi ,
@cosecantphi@hexbear.net avatar

I really wish I could have a permanent record of everything every liberal has ever said so I could easily demonstrate how full of shit they are in 10 to 20 years when they all collectively deny ever having supported Israel through the Palestinian genocide.

ziggurter ,

I’d say, “It’s the Internet”, but these days institutional powers seem to be able to convince even Internet archives to remove shit that’s too inconvenient for them.

foo2 ,

It is not Israel that wants to annihilate Gaza and the Palestinian people, it is Hamas (and their backer the Iranian government) that wants to annihilate Israel and the Jewish people.

thoro ,

aljazeera.com/…/these-animals-can-no-longer-live-…

To believe this is uncommon sentiment would be naive

foo2 ,

I agree. But neither is it an official Israeli position, nor can I see how it would be justified to suppose statements like this would be endorsed by anything even close to a majority of the Israeli people. Talk of a planned genocide of the Palestinian people is pure propaganda.

MisterScruffy ,

what do you call walling in 2 million people and cutting off food water and fuel then bombing the shit out of the walled enclosure? Israel is doing genocide right now it doesn’t matter if its official or not

cosecantphi ,
@cosecantphi@hexbear.net avatar

Please walk into the sea.

brain_in_a_box ,

Isreal is currently perpetrating a genocide against the Palestinian people. Kind of hard to argue they don’t want to when it’s exactly what they’re doing.

trash80 ,

Is there some reason you couldn’t make keep a record?

bjoern_tantau , to programmerhumor in Yes, I program in HTML
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

This is not HTML. It isn’t even XML. It’s not as bad as designers putting “code” into ads, but it’s close.

Also, ever heard of XSLT?

LukeChriswalker ,

I mean it’s valid XML

It’s just not useful

bjoern_tantau ,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

It isn’t valid XML. No root node.

LukeChriswalker ,

We may just not see it but fair point

0x0 ,

The editor would need to start counting lines at zero.

bjoern_tantau ,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

The line numbers show us that we’re seeing the whole file.

LukeChriswalker ,

Oh ur right

Ew I didn’t notice

That’s awful

Joe_0237 ,

They only (probably) show us that we are seeing the begining of the file. Also relative line numbing is a thing in vim for example.

jaybone ,

Could it be an xml entity (or whatever it’s called) that you reference from another xml file? Do those require root nodes?

chicken , to lemmyshitpost in Successful defense

They probably just do this by default and the text of the appeal is never read or considered.

Pregnenolone ,

Yeah this is what I think too. In Australia you can get some traffic fines withdrawn when it’s a first offence if you write in and appeal it. Police don’t care what the reason is other than you put the effort in to write in.

Rolder , to memes in Modern consumer logic

Depends on the area. Where I live I’ve never had a package stolen, Amazon or otherwise.

mustardman , to linux in I had a journey

fidel-salute-big welcome comrade!

Spendrill , to memes in Its sad. .

Twenty hours in and it’s up to me to remind people that Dolly Parton is the full package?

  • She’s got tunes, OK ‘I Will Always Love You’ is a bit cloying but the rumour is that she also wrote Jolene the same day
  • She supports other women. When porn star Julia Parton was around and telling people that she was Dolly’s cousin, Dolly’s public response was something like, 'She ain’t my cousin but I can’t condemn what she does… it’s not like I ever tried to hide my breasts. Good luck to her.'
  • She produced Buffy The Vampire Slayer through her production company Sanddollar. She kept a low profile publicly but behind the scenes was very supportive of the show because it provided good role models for young women.
  • She funds the Dolly Parton Imagination library which mails free books to kids under five.
NuPNuA ,

She also had an awesome cameo in The Orville.

Madison420 ,

True, the only thing I remotely have an issue with is her southern revisionism restaurants.

Kalothar ,

Like what’s going with that?

Madison420 ,

Southern revisionism, it was a trade dispute not about slavery. It’s not wrong really just I dunno whitewashed and myopic.

axont ,

Dolly Parton is a rich theme park owner who has abused her employees and she pals around with mass murderers like George W. Bush.

At a certain point she had credibility. She came from a poor Appalachian background and made music reflecting that. After a certain point though, after decades in the industry, she completely flipped. Her 9 to 5 song used to be a genuine anthem for struggling working class people, then she flipped it a few years ago as “5 to 9” for a Sqaurespace commercial, glorifying the idea of working a second job after your main one.

She’s the exact problem of modern country music. It’s made and financed by people too rich to be connected to humanity anymore.

Spendrill ,

I’m going to need a reference on that staff abuse allegation, I’ve tried Googling but haven’t turned up anything.

I don’t have a tv so I didn’t catch the Squarespace commercial, don’t know if it even played in the UK.

Grayox OP ,
@Grayox@lemmy.ml avatar

9 to 5 is also a socialist anthem!

fosforus , (edited ) to memes in Why must we be done this way?

Yeah, the second one will directly affect the first one positively. Essentially, school work needs to be the most interesting thing you can do in school, otherwise you will have low motivation. It’s not the job of the the school staff to make the material extremely interesting, it’s their job to remove every more interesting thing from the reach of students.

Read up on dopamine if you didn’t understand that.

(And yes, this affects adults too)

Viking_Hippie , (edited )

read up on dopamine if you didn’t understand

While you’re on that, you could research how things don’t become more interesting by the absence of more interesting things and how dopamine is required for attention and information retention.

Doing nothing to motivate except removing potential distractions from unengaging school work doesn’t work and can even hurt students’ mental health as they experience issues of guilt and inadequacy from being unable to do what’s required of them.

ShranTheWaterPoloFan ,

What exactly should be done to motivate?

I ask because schools do a lot to motivate but kids often dismiss it as lame or complain about the efforts. It’s very easy to say “motivate kids” but actual ideas aren’t common.

Let me give you an example, everyone has heard “when will we use this in real life?” in math class. The same people asking those questions are the same that groan at word problems. So you have kids complaining that won’t be able to use something in real life, and upset when they have to solve a real life problem. What’s the real complaint the student has? They have to try.

I agree that so much more can be done to make school fun, but it’s not all on the teachers. Students have to be present, participate and willing to leave their comfort zone in order to have better results.

abraxas ,

What exactly should be done to motivate?

Great question. And a hard one. But knowing a proposed solution will worsen the situation is an important step in it.

It’s like every time a person says “see, this is what happens when you don’t hit children” at every behavior issue. Even though we know that hitting children objectively worsens behavior over doing nothing, but they insist that doing the only thing they know, even if harmful, is better.

Let me give you an example, everyone has heard “when will we use this in real life?” in math class. The same people asking those questions are the same that groan at word problems

I had a math teacher that helped us see which math we would use in real life, and which math we wouldn’t, and helped us understand why the latter was still important for us to know. Everyone paid attention to her.

What’s the real complaint the student has? They have to try.

When you have a room of 30 students and 29 of them are complaining about something, we need to remind people that one of the real life uses of math (stats & probability to be precise) is to point out how unlikely it is that those 29 students are the causal variable.

I agree that so much more can be done to make school fun, but it’s not all on the teachers. Students have to be present, participate and willing to leave their comfort zone in order to have better results.

“Personal Responsibility” attitudes just doesn’t work for crowd dynamics, especially with regards to children. The way a group behaves is nearly 100% predictable from the balance of outside human factors. In this case, the outside factors are parents and teachers. That’s it. Either there is something that all the parents are doing wrong, or the teachers.

Since there are some teachers who have far more success than others (common “favorite subjects” based on school), that means the most likely cause, and mechanism for improvements, are the teachers.

ShranTheWaterPoloFan ,

It’s like every time a person says “see, this is what happens when you don’t hit children” at every behavior issue. Even though we know that hitting children objectively worsens behavior over doing nothing, but they insist that doing the only thing they know, even if harmful, is better.

But we know children learn better without phones www.theeducatoronline.com/k12/news/…/276071You are the person insisting on hitting the child here.

Putting phones in school makes learning harder.

When you have a room of 30 students and 29 of them are complaining about something … point out how unlikely it is that those 29 students are the causal variable.

You are saying 29 out of 30 people can’t be right, which is very wrong. But what you miss is that it’s really 3-4 kids disrupting and the rest going along because it’s easier.

It’s the path of least resistance, and people will jump onto the easy path.

“Personal Responsibility” attitudes just doesn’t work for crowd dynamics,

Except they do. Look at all the examples of Japanese fans cleaning stadiums.

In a crowd most people will follow the norm. If the norm is playing on your phone and not listening, the you have a bad time. It’s not punishing kids because teachers are bad at their jobs, it’s setting a behavioral norm.

Next time you dislike your teacher think about when you got stuck in a group with people who wouldn’t do anything. Now imagine a class full of them. If just one or two more people put in a little effort good things would happen.

abraxas , (edited )

But we know children learn better without phones www.theeducatoronline.com/k12/news/…/276071

I disagree. For two reasons. First, there is only a couple studies in your link, and its “difference-in-difference” strategy does not seem (at least prima facie) to shown effective isolation to only a single variable. Second, it seems to be making the same mistake previously made by Psychologists in the “hitting children” debate, making unsubstantiated (or “common sense”) conclusions about the gulf in the middle after only doing a quick analysis of the two extremes. Further, your link also calls question your claim by pointing out Switzerland did not find any effectiveness in banning phones.

And the “hitting” reference was intended to point out the concern against positive advancement. There was a time where psychologists thought hitting was better than nothing even when they knew it was net harmful and so did not strongly discourage it when parents could not or would not embrace more modern parenting strategies. The same is true of phones in school (and, per your link, laptops in college). Looking at the laptop studies I could find, they have the same methodological problems the phone studies have. They’re looking presumptively at distraction, and setting up an experiment where distraction is more pronounced.

Yet laptops have a lot more research than phones. Studies mentioned above compare ubiquitous laptop use and scores, while failing to address that each individual that uses a laptop averages higher scores than individuals who do not. What studies I could find with phones could be moving in the direction of that same dynamic that shows missing understanding of how to be use technology in learning.

Let’s look at the other side of things. Another study (again, possibly flawed…I don’t trust either side’s phone studies much yet) found that removing a phone ban in NY caused an increase in overall student obedience and educational productivity, at the cost of “school culture”. As someone who grew up as a victim of “school culture” in a world where teachers supported bullying (and in many places they still do), I have no problem with that trade-off. Of course, this study does directly contradict your educatoronline article.

From this fairly balanced piece (which agrees with both my article and yours in some ways):

“If educators do not find ways to leverage mobile technology in all learning environments, for all students, then we are failing our kids by not adequately preparing them to make the connection between their world outside of school and their world inside school”

…which is more important than test scores.

You are saying 29 out of 30 people can’t be right, which is very wrong. But what you miss is that it’s really 3-4 kids disrupting and the rest going along because it’s easier. It’s the path of least resistance, and people will jump onto the easy path.

Is that something you can cite, or just your own personal “pick em up by their bootstraps” opinion? Do you have any experience with crowd simulation? Can you show any evidence that your explanation is likely, or even reasonably possible?

Except they do. Look at all the examples of Japanese fans cleaning stadiums.

That’s… not an effective or topical rebuttal at all. Did you misunderstand what I meant by “Personal Responsibility” attitudes? I referred to blaming the individuals in a large group for their failure instead of blaming the causal elements of the group. I have to deal with that type of problem regularly, where a manager tries to blame a majority of his reports (all capable and talented) of being the problem when something goes wrong. Guess who I ultimately find responsible?

Next time you dislike your teacher think about when you got stuck in a group with people who wouldn’t do anything.

Thankfully, I’m decades out on that. From the kinds of things I see and read about education, I’m grateful I don’t have to go back. But then, my education started after school anyway.

someguy3 ,

It’s concerning that you think the absence of a device is comparable to the presence of a action, in this case hitting.

abraxas ,

It’s concerning that you think the absence of a device is comparable to the presence of a action, in this case hitting.

I’m genuinely lost on how you think the only variable here is whether something is being banned or being encouraged. Or should I say, it’s “concerning”. Did you have a smartphone in school?

someguy3 ,

Fyi when you resort to trying to mock people, they won’t want to talk to you.

abraxas ,

Hmm. I’m curious about this. I repeated the words you used because I thought it was appropriate to do so. Were you resorting to trying to mock me in the first place?

If so, then “glass houses” and all that. If not, then please don’t take my reply as mocking. I genuinely mean it. And I am genuinely curious if you had smartphones in school. We didn’t have them when I grew up.

ShranTheWaterPoloFan ,

I disagree.

Great! But you have no evidence to support your argument. Your apples to oranges comparison of laptops isn’t compelling. Nor am I compelled by your methodology argument, which seems to take issue with testing a hypothesis that phones are a distraction.

thought hitting was better than nothing even when they knew it was net harmful

Once again, we know cellphones are detrimental to learning. This is not a matter of schools failing to adapt to new technology. Tablets, computers, interactive software and more are used. It is about unrestricted cell phone use, which studies have shown hinders learning.

a phone ban in NY caused an increase in overall student obedience and educational productivity, … Of course, this study does directly contradict your educatoronline article.

No it doesn’t. It says that no phones mean better learning. You are missing the forest for the trees.

Crowd dynamics

Lots of research has been done on this, and a small number of people can influence a large group. Look at “wave” studies for more info.

Calling minimum acceptable classroom behavior “picking yourself up by your bootstraps” is absurd. It’s like saying that you can’t expect people to not talk at the theater because that’s just asking too much of people.

abraxas ,

Great! But you have no evidence to support your argument

I cited two pieces of fairly substantive evidence in reply to someone who cited a single article. If you don’t think that is reasonable escalation of evidence, we can stop now.

Once again, we know cellphones are detrimental to learning. This is not a matter of schools failing to adapt to new technology

My cited references contradict that. More importantly, your article contradicts the “we know” part. Let me quote your reference: "Research from Sweden, however, suggests little effect of banning mobile phones in high school on student performance. "

My references made clear argument that this is indeed a case of schools failing to adapt to new technology. I even quoted a relevant quote to you.

No it doesn’t. It says that no phones mean better learning. You are missing the forest for the trees.

“My findings suggest an improvement in educational productivity due to the NYCDOE’s ban removal”. I understand there’s a double-negative in that reference, but the cited study’s findings suggest that “yes phones mean better learning”. You might disagree with it, but please reread it so that you do not misrepresent it.

Lots of research has been done on this, and a small number of people can influence a large group. Look at “wave” studies for more info.

Sure. Please demonstrate that your claims are correct. Until then, and especially because you seem to have failed to comprehend the involved references, I will wish you luck.

Calling minimum acceptable classroom behavior “picking yourself up by your bootstraps” is absurd. It’s like saying that you can’t expect people to not talk at the theater because that’s just asking too much of people.

I’ve lived an entire life of watching people blame the bulk of individuals for failures by authorities. I have become reasonably skeptical of any claims that “it’s everyone but…” the decision-maker.

ShranTheWaterPoloFan ,

One of the problems with arguing with people online is I tend to assume people are arguing in good faith.

After getting about 50 studies showing that cell phones are bad for learning, I switched to duckduckgo. Not until page 3 did I find your sources. You have waded through data that says you are wrong. I’m not interested in copying them for you.

abraxas ,

One of the problems with arguing with people online is I tend to assume people are arguing in good faith.

One of the things that stop me from arguing with people online is when they accuse me of arguing in bad faith because I have facts they don’t like. From such no-name sites as Harvard.

EDIT: For future reference (and 2 points):

  1. Front page is a popularity contest, and does not bear any weight to the truth of a matter, or even expert consensus of that matter.
  2. Front page can differ between people in search engines, and these results came from the front page on mine.

So in summary, the only reply that would not have been “bad faith” in your eyes would be to concede the argument. So you got it. Congrats, you were right about every opinion you’ve ever had in your life.

TheHighRoad ,
@TheHighRoad@lemmy.world avatar

The best way to motivate is to build relationship and demonstrate a sense of excitement or at least show real-world connection to content. Relationship is the key, though. Students will care more about anything you say if they trust that you care about them.

original_ish_name ,

It’s not the job of the the school staff to make the material extremely interesting, it’s their job to remove every more interesting thing from the reach of students.

And this is how we reached the point where sleep is more common in a classroom than anything else. They should make the material interesting enough that people won’t have to resort to other stuff

Read up on dopamine if you didn’t understand that.

I know what dopamine (the joy hormone which the body uses as a “reward”) is. Since the body uses it as a “reward” if school gives students that, then students will like school

fosforus , (edited )

They should make the material interesting enough that people won’t have to resort to other stuff

Nope. It’s all relative. Compared to what’s available via the phone and internet, 90% of school material is fundamentally more boring, because important things are often boring – and there’s almost nothing you can do about it. I mean sure, an incompetent/unmotivated teacher can make the material even less interesting, but that’s also why we need competent teachers. That’s a separate problem.

So the quest to make school material more interesting than the Internet is a dead end – it’s just impossible. So they need to make everything else less interesting. Which means that phones and computers can fuck right off. If there are kids for whom this is a difficult situation and they’re unable to cope, such kids will need intervention. I.e. restrictions in free time as well.

Viking_Hippie ,

important things are often boring – and there’s almost nothing you can do about it.

That’s downright ridiculous. The most important skill for teacher is an ability to effectively impart knowledge and in order to make students listen and remember, you need to make them interested.

So they need to make everything else less interesting.

No, they ABSOLUTELY don’t. If I’m watching a fascinating TED Talk at home, I don’t need anyone to make my favourite tv show boring in order for me to pay attention. That’s not how attention works. For someone who seems at least dimly aware of the existence of dopamine, you seem remarkably confused about the effects of a lack of it.

If there are kids for whom this is a difficult situation and they’re unable to cope, such kids will need intervention. I.e. restrictions in free time as well.

So restrictions are your only tools? I really hope you’re not a teacher or a parent, because your ideas seem not just ineffective but actually borderline abusive.

fosforus ,

If I’m watching a fascinating TED Talk at home, I don’t need anyone to make my favourite tv show boring in order for me to pay attention.

You’re comparing a TED Talk that you chose to watch to school curriculum.

I really hope you’re not a teacher or a parent, because your ideas seem not just ineffective but actually borderline abusive.

I’m a parent who has witnessed the effects of smart devices on children, and I have made serious mistakes in this area. Those mistakes are from being not restrictive enough. I believe the society has made similar mistakes, but is slowly turning to facing and understanding those mistakes. A generation has been lost, though, and some people (like yourself it seems) are still fighting against countering these problems. I hope you’re not in any role where you can decide these things, because I think your opinions around this seem very harmful to both individuals and society.

Viking_Hippie ,

You’re comparing a TED Talk to school curriculum.

It was supposed to be an easy to understand example of information being imparted in a more efficient way because it’s made interesting, not a one to one comparison. I felt that “listening to the teacher explain passionately and engagedly about the industrial revolution” was a bit clunky and on the nose.

I guess I underestimated how literal I have to be when dealing with someone who can’t even imagine that pedagogy other than deprivation works.

I’m a parent who has witnessed the effects of smart devices on children, and I have made serious mistakes in this area. Those mistakes are from being not restrictive enough.

No, those mistakes have likely been mostly from increasing the temptation to goof off on their phones by boring them.

fosforus ,

Ok, so you’re not a parent nor a teacher. That’s good. Keep it that way.

BandoCalrissian ,

Hey, I fell asleep halfway through your comment. Can you make it more engaging for me?

Ya_Boy_Skinny_Penis ,

I apologize, but your comments started stuoid and the devolved into ignorant nonsense, and thus poor other fella keeps engaging you like you’re capable of honest debate.

Education has never been about being more interesting than games or entertainment, and you sound like a nitwit for even suggesting it. Teachers are tasked with educating, and the #1 preventable reason for kids falling behind isn’t “entertain me more!” . . . it’s shit parenting and upbringing.

Kids lack impulse control worse than anyone – taking away cell phones is an absolute no-brainer.

original_ish_name ,

I hope you’re not in any role where you can decide these things, because I think your opinions around this seem very harmful to both individuals and society.

Ignoring what we’re fighting about, just think of what you said there. You are saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that we should just not allow people with opinions that contradict you to not have any power

Sorry if I came off rude or I’m putting words in your mouth but stuff like that is not ideas I take lightly. I think it’s a threat to democracy


Back to the topic

You’re comparing a TED Talk that you chose to watch to school curriculum.

Teachers regularly put informational videos (including TED talks) on in the classroom. It never becomes less interesting because it’s forced upon me - if anything their a nice change of pace

Those mistakes are from being not restrictive enough

Can you please elaborate. What “mistakes” did you make and what do you do now (also please elaborate on the “mistakes” society made)

Also please elaborate on the “effect”

fosforus ,

Ignoring what we’re fighting about, just think of what you said there. You are saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that we should just not allow people with opinions that contradict you to not have any power

That was a reaction to them saying that they hope I’m not a parent. Which I am. Obviously not a good reaction, but it happened.

lightnsfw ,

Ignoring what we’re fighting about, just think of what you said there. You are saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that we should just not allow people with opinions that contradict you to not have any power

No one should be basing policy decisions on opinions anyway. Those should be based off facts and data.

original_ish_name ,

in order to make students listen and remember, you need to make them interested.

You said it better than I could

original_ish_name ,

Did you hear what I said about dopamine being the “joy hormone” and used as a “reward”. Your body gives out happy hormones like this after an exercise and other good stuff for you (including school work if it is interesting)

And don’t you tell me that knowledge isn’t interesting. For something to be interesting (by my definition) it must give you knowledge.

Girls twerking on TikTok is not interesting - the way Hitler died is

Memes are not interesting (unless they contain important info)

These may produce dopamine in other ways but they are not interesting

Which means that phones and computers can fuck right off.

I could be considered “tech savvy”, I know a bit of C/PHP and a lot of shell script. Explain ro me how I could learn that without a computer (I’m also self-taught)

So they need to make everything else less interesting.

As I said, sleep is something that pupils prefer to schoolwork. Get schoolwork above a bar that low and then we can talk. Amyway, it just needs to be interesting enough that students won’t feel a need to check social media

fosforus , (edited )

I could be considered “tech savvy”, I know a bit of C/PHP and a lot of shell script. Explain ro me how I could learn that without a computer (I’m also self-taught)

By using the computer or phone at home. Roughly half of the programmer workforce currently alive went through childhood without a mobile phone, because they didn’t exist for regular consumers. And personal laptops for children would’ve been perhaps an option for the top 1%, but probably not even them. Since you just didn’t have electronics in school.

someguy3 ,

Way more than half. Let’s separate dumb phones from smart phones. Even smart phones weren’t all that capable for a long time.

PerCarita ,
@PerCarita@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Please don’t learn about how Hitler died through Tiktok. Befriend your librarian and read it in a book.

original_ish_name ,

I dont use tiktok, I hate the app

PerCarita ,
@PerCarita@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

You used Tiktok as an example for something that is more interesting than learning. (Of course it’s more interesting than learning, it’s digital crack cocaine.)

JokeDeity ,

Make the material more interesting? Buddy, it’s school not Qanon.

original_ish_name ,

I find a lot of knowledge interesting. Being interesting involves knowledge

TehPers ,

And this is how we reached the point where sleep is more common in a classroom than anything else.

I think this has more to do with sleep deprivation. I can probably count the number of days I got a full night’s rest while in high school and college on one hand. Rather than making classes more interesting (though they could do this as well I guess), they should focus on not completely overwhelming the students with homework, although I’ll admit that was more of a college thing.

isolatedscotch ,

staring at a wall is more interesting then (badly done) school

TehPers ,

Hey at least they give you some books to read if you’re bored. They’re heavy as hell, but you might learn something and get a well needed break from the phone.

GeneralEmergency , to memes in Another Starfield Post

When this is the first meme I see a community make. I know the game is mid as fuck.

deft ,

thanks for summing me up

redcalcium , to linux in I'd like to interject for a moment...

If someone send this to Stallman, he’ll write a stern email on emacs to the book’s author reminding them that gnu is not linux.

NightAuthor ,

GNL

neanderthal ,

They’ll argue with Stallman about what GNU is.

ShadyGrove ,

Well yeah, it’s a Linux variant!

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