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litchralee , (edited ) to nostupidquestions in Why doesn't the American market provide efficient and effective health insurance like it does for car insurance?

At its very core, an insurance company operates by: 1) pooling policyholder’s risks together and 2) collecting premiums from the policyholders based on actuarial data, to pay claims and maybe make a small profit. But looking broader, an insurance market exists when: a) policyholders voluntarily or are obliged to obtain policies, b) insurers are willing and able to accept the risks in exchange for a premium expected to support the insurance pool, and c) the actuarial risks are calculable and prove true, on average.

The loss of any of A, B, or C will substantially impact a healthy insurance market, or can prevent the insurance market from ever getting started. For some examples of market failures, the ongoing California homeowner insurance crisis shows how losing B (starting with insurers refusing to renew policies near the wildland-rural interface) and C (increase in insured losses due to climate change) results in policies becoming unaffordable or impossible to obtain.

As a broader nationwide example, an established business sector that operates wholly without insurance availability is cannabis. A majority of US States have decriminalized marijuana for medical use, and a near-majority have legalized recreational consumption. Yet due to unyielding federal law, no insurer will issue policies for marijuana businesses, to protect from risks that any business would face, such as losses from fire, due to a product recall or product liability, or for liability to employees. These risks are calculable and there’s a clear need for such policies – thus meeting criteria A and C – but no commercial insurer is willing to issue. Accordingly, the formal market for cannabis business insurance is virtually non-existent in the USA.

With these examples, we can see that the automobile insurance market meets all three criteria for a healthy market, but it’s how these criteria are met which is noteworthy. Motorists in the USA are obliged to insure in every state except New Hampshire and Virginia: it is a criminal offense to drive a car without third-party liability insurance, meaning the motorist might spend time in jail. Note: NH and VA won’t send a motorist to jail, but they do have administrative penalties for driving without “financial responsibility”, which includes insurance or a bond at the DMV.

The exact requirement varies per state, with some requiring very low amounts of coverage and others requiring extra coverage like Personal Injury Protection (PIP, aka no-fault insurance). The point is that criteria A is easily met: motorists want to avoid jail, but also want to avoid the indignity of being sued after having caused a road incident, in addition to protecting their apparently only viable mode of transportation.

Insurers can take into account the overall trends in national risks trends for automobiles (eg new car safety, through the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, IIHS) as well as local or hyper-local risks (eg hail damage in the southeast, property crime in a particular zip code). And as a large country with nearly as many cars as people, many insurers are willing to meet the demand. This satisfies criteria B and C.

So well-organized is the automobile insurance market that you could almost say that it’s vertically integrated: the largest nationwide insurers have contracts in place with every dealership network, auto collision chain, new and used parts dealers, as well as automatic data sharing with state DMVs, plus with firms like CarFax that buy information. Despite each state being slightly different, the insurers have overcome and achieved a level of near uniformity that allows an efficient market to exist.

Things are drastically different for the American healthcare system and for American health insurance companies. While most think of their healthcare provider as a national name like Anthem Blue Cross or Kaiser Permanente, the reality is that each state is an island, and sometimes counties in a state are enclaves. Even federal programs like Medicaid and Medicare are subject to state-level non-uniformities. For example, hospitals can be either privately operated (eg religion-affiliated, or for-profit) or run by a public entity (eg county or state), and can exist as a single entity or form part of a regional hospital network. Some entities operate both the insurance pool as well as providing the health care (eg HMOs like Kaiser Permanente) while others dispatch to a list of contracted providers, usually being doctor’s own private practices or specialist offices.

With so many disparate entities, and where healthcare is a heavily-regulated activity by each state, the cost of insurable risks – that is, for routine healthcare services – is already kinda difficult to compute. Hospitals and doctors go through intense negotiations with insurers to come to an agreement on reimbursement rates, but the reality is that neither has sufficient actuarial data to price based on what can be borne by the market. So they just pass their costs on, whatever those may be, and insurers either accept it into their calculations, or drop the provider.

Suffice it to say, there are fewer pressure to push the total cost of healthcare down, given this reality, and more likely prices will continue to climb. This fails criteria C.

financial flow in the US healthcare systemSource

Briefly speaking, it’s fairly self explanatory why people would want health insurance, since the alternative is either death or serious health repercussions, paying out-of-pocket rates for service, or going to the ER and being burdened by medical debt that will somehow haunt even after death. Criteria A is present.

As for Criteria B, that was actually resolved as part of the Affordable Care Act (ACA). During discussions with the drafters, insurers bargained for an obligation for everyone to have insurance (aka the individual mandate, bolstering criteria A), in exchange for an obligation to issue policies for anyone who applies, irrespective of pre-existing health conditions. Thus, Criteria B is present for all ACA-compliant policies in the USA, even though the individual mandate was later legislatively repealed.

So to answer your question directly, the costs for healthcare in the USA continue to spiral so far out of control that it causes distortions in the health insurance market, to everyone’s detriment. Specific issues such as open-enrollment periods, employer subsidies, and incomprehensible coverage levels all stem from – and are attempts to reduce – costs.

Enrollment periods prevent people from changing plans immediately after obtaining an expensive service, like a major surgery. Employer subsidies exist due to a federal tax quirk decades ago, which has now accidentally become an essential part of the health insurance and health care situation. And coverage levels try to provide tiered plans, so people can still afford minimal coverage for “catastrophic” injuries while others can buy coverage for known, recurring medical needs.

But these are all bandaging the bleeding which is unchecked costs. It would take an act of Congress – literally – or of state legislatures to address the structural issues at play. The most prominent solution to nip costs is the bud is to achieve the same near-vertical integration as with automobile insurance. This means a single or very few entities which have contracts in place with every provider (doctors and hospitals), negotiated at once and uniformly, so as to achieve criteria C. The single-payer model – which Medicare already uses – is one such solution.

Going further would be the universal healthcare model, which discards the notion of health insurance entirely and creates an obligation for a government department to provide for the health of the citizens, funded by taxes. This means doctors and hospitals work at the behest of the department for the citizenry, or work privately outside the system entirely, with no guarantee of a steady stream of work. Substantial administrative savings would arise, since the number of players has been reduced and thus simplifies things, including the basic act of billing and getting paid for services rendered.

These models could be approached by individual states or by the nation as a whole, but it’s unclear where the Overton window for that idea currently is.

hakase ,

Thanks for taking the time to write such an informed and in-depth comment!

Cryophilia ,

That is an extremely well-written and researched answer!

WolfLink ,

I find it hard to believe that a far market can exist when everyone is required or effectively required to purchase something. If you think of supply and demand, the demand for something like health insurance or legally mandated car insurance is effectively infinite.

The decision to get car insurance or not is not “is the value this car insurance provides worth the money” it’s “is the value this car provides worth the money”. Similarly, the value of health insurance becomes the value of getting any sort of medical treatment, because it’s generally impossible to get treatment otherwise.

This allows the insurance companies to charge rates far beyond the value they actually provide, because they are legal gatekeepers to far more valuable opportunities.

TheBigBrother , to asklemmy in The specific thing you spend the most time doing instead of the actual job you're being paid to do is your new profession. What's your new job title?

Coffee taster…

0_0j ,
@0_0j@lemmy.world avatar

Second this, other than Starbucks, coffee is pretty crappy. Any places worth checking out will be highly appreciated

TheBigBrother ,

I drink homemade mixes, Starbucks it’s good also, check out YouTube for different kinds of homemade mixes there are some which taste pretty good made with instant coffee.

Hugh_Jeggs ,

Christ on a bike I wouldn’t take coffee advice from either of yous two loons

0_0j ,
@0_0j@lemmy.world avatar

If bikes existed in that era, you best believe he would have rode one

Hugh_Jeggs ,

And he still wouldn’t have cycled to Starbucks 🤢

bobs_monkey , to linux in Last Linux redneck post for now

Propane powered Linux

Edit: PropaneOS

MrJameGumb , to asklemmy in The specific thing you spend the most time doing instead of the actual job you're being paid to do is your new profession. What's your new job title?
@MrJameGumb@lemmy.world avatar

Guitarist/cross stitcher, with a side job as a professional TV watcher lol

ramenshaman , to lemmyshitpost in Coming down your chimney

Hey it’s like that one episode of Space Ghost.

youtu.be/UxVbaBYxHXE?si=gigQNy-RxdxqkM3a

Pacattack57 , to nostupidquestions in When a medicine asks you to "take with food" how much food is enough?

My doctor told me a couple crackers is enough. All you need to do is eat enough to line your stomach to keep your stomach from absorbing it too fast. Can also be to protect your stomach. Some medications eat away at your stomach lining so eating with food can help. Ibuprofen is one example.

RubberElectrons , to android in Buying a Pixel 7 Pro, install Custom ROM or stay on default?
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

CalyxOS just works, is completely deGoogled and has better battery life because less shit is running by itself in the background. If you need any Google apps, you can install them voluntarily via the Aurora store (a version of the play store that strips serial numbers etc from communications with Google’s play store servers).

All my banking apps and work apps function, though I couldn’t get Pokemon go to work.

SaltyIceteaMaker , to memes in I hate it when people just say that a meme is "a repost" and refuse to elaborate

Obviously a repost

darklamer , to asklemmy in TV nerds: what should I watch
@darklamer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar
Emerald , to piracy in 90s Classic

I mean… I would hope not. Artists work hard to make NFTs. You should respect that by downloading the image in full resolution and quality rather then screenshotting it.

Stern , to showerthoughts in I wonder how many US babies have been named Donald in the last few years and may live to regret it.
@Stern@lemmy.world avatar

They’ll make lovely couples with the girls named Khaleesi

synae , to memes in I hate it when people just say that a meme is "a repost" and refuse to elaborate
@synae@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Not that I’m defending the behavior, but what more elaboration is needed? They’ve seen it before, that’s all they’re saying

lauha ,

Sometimes it is abrepost even when I just made it myself.

darklamer , to asklemmy in What email provider do you use? Would you recommend it?
@darklamer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Answer to the bonus question: mutt.org

wesker , (edited ) to linux in More Linux libertarian shitposting 🦅🇺🇸🦅
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Your techno-political memes are confusing the terminally regarded folk.

Also, please start posting these in !funhole to help us cultivate normie downvotes.

cashmaggot , to showerthoughts in I wonder how many US babies have been named Donald in the last few years and may live to regret it.

Last few years, but named Donald? They were horny for Trump. Last few decades? Still could be horny for Trump @_!

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