If there’s a better policy that helps Mexico as a whole which isn’t what the US wants, I’d love to hear it. Something tells me “not fighting drug cartels” isn’t it.
It cuts into their profits given them less clout and less reason to kill each other. As such, it will help, as can be seen with the example of weed.
Edit: in fact, the only reason drugs remain illegal at all is because some very wealth and powerful people make too much money from it remaining so. Well, that and so the CIA can fund illegal wars around the world.
You are aware that your articles talk about American legalization and are irrelevant to the topic at hand because the Mexican president doesn’t not hold jurisdiction over the US
Wait, are you trying to tell me you think it wouldn’t translate into helping, if they did it on the other side of the boarder too? I have to check because that’s pretty wild.
Mexico having a policy of legalizing all drugs isn’t going to stop the violence because the violence comes from people selling to the US. No cartel is worried they are going to get arrested in Mexico for having these substances
Yes, yes we are talking about Mexico. Any hit to the cartels profits, be it in America or Mexico, is going to help battle the cartels, even if you don’t want to beleive it and even if you declare it not to be true.
You see, they actually sell drugs in Mexico too. Itll also bring down the price of drugs in the US, as the market will be flooded. Its really not hard. You just don’t like it and that’s not the same thing as it not helping.
And you can just re-drclare your baseless nonsense too.
No, weaponised ignorance and a burden of proof falacy is not a cogent rebuttal and pretending it wouldn’t work either side of the boarder is desperate, at best.
I’m judging from the back benches like everyone else here. I know enough to say “policy declared by Mexico’s president” is not necessarily equal to “the best policy for Mexico.”
The average American mind really can’t conceive of a situation where additional militarization wouldn’t solve the problem. Every single conflict. Everywhere there’s instability. They can only think of one solution: send the drones/missiles/troops
Technically, Mexico has had only two presidents from a right-wing party. Before, they were from the centrist party. The current president is a very well known leftist.
The country was bombarded with religion for centuries, so maybe you are thinking of that, but even so, the majority support a version of religion that mixes a “social concern for the poor and political liberation for oppressed peoples” with spirituality. It is similar to the recent declarations of Pope Francis about Marxists and Christians having a common goal It is called liberation theology.
Also, Mexico tried to legalize drugs back in 1940. It was promoted by a psychiatrist that informed the government that substance abuse was a mental disorder, which was very progressive for the era. Here is the story.
Of course, if you dig deeper, you’ll know the United States basically coerced Mexico into criminalizing drugs again.
Around half the population still supports drug legalization, even after years of propaganda. The commenter below was shocked about abortion legalization. Abortion is legal in many places. Same-sex marriage is also legal, even in some more right-leaning states. A couple years ago, a transgender clinic with free care was opened in Mexico City. Similarly, free healthcare and many other welfare initiatives such as free education (including universities) are common and not negotiable for the average Mexican.
So, yeah, I guess you’ll find homophobic old people, religious nuts, or lately, U.S.-influenced right-wing supporters, but Mexico is overall progressive as I see it. Even historically:
Slave abolition was one of the first things Mexico did as an independent country, around 1810-1817. The first black president in 1829. Safe place for U.S. slaves to escape and live as free people during the 19th century. First native (indigenous) president in 1858. The Constitution has been protecting native populations’ rights since 1917. During the 20th century, there were big movements in favor of socialism (e.g., agrarian socialists called zapatistas, or students’ movements in the National Autonomous University of Mexico). The list goes on… The first woman president is probably happening this year.
I hope this puts things into perspective, and sorry for infodumping!
Thank you, I have been infodumped. Did you know that Amlo has also been pretty upfront about his opposition to feminism?
Look, I have no issue with Mexico specifically, but let’s not pretend being economically leftist is the same thing as being enlightened on social issues. Or even that being enlightened on something like race means that you have cool ideas about gender.
Something tells me that the cartels wouldn’t just let the government do this, and then you’re right back to square one where the Mexican government is fighting against them.
The reason fentanyl is so prevalent is because it’s easy to smuggle. The reason it’s so deadly is it’s hard to accurately dose. Legalization immediately solves both of those problems.
He is a demagogue through and through, all his term has been a joke and he has been fluffed up by his minions telling him what a wonderful man he is. Barf!
I have the feeling you were born and raised in the US and have never experienced life outside your own town/ city and just spew your opinion about places and situations you know absolutely nothing about. So let me enlighten your narrow anglo vision a bit:
Have you ever lived through something like what is described in the article? Have you ever experienced what a narcoestado entails? Have you ever been in a protest along searching mothers outside Palacio Nacional because ten thousand people disappeared in your country due to organized crime for this fool to keep having breakfast saying “they only want to destabilize my regime” and not even acknowledge your presence? Have you ever been blackmailed and had to pay organized crime to keep your business open for this president to say “abrazos, no balazos” ( hugs, not bullets)? Has anyone from your family been kidnapped for ransom money? If so, did you get help from governement agencies? With all of the above, how would you feel about your president saying the things in the article? I have experienced all of the above scenarios so kindly, stfu.
I’ve put my boots on the soil of five different countries in my lifetime. Been to half the states in the Continental United States, too; not sure how it takes travelling the literal world to know that sending Amerikan troops and guns into a sovereign nation is always a shit idea when it’s the State Department doing it; but… Iunno. “Debating” you is gonna be just a performative waste of my time, so I consider everything you say cap from genesis.
I have the feeling you were born and raised in the US and have never experienced life outside your own town/ city and just spew your opinion about places and situations you know absolutely nothing about.
So Mexico first means letting the cartels run your country? If you can’t clear them out alone the next best option is help from the largest military in the world.
No one can “clear them out”, even if the u.s. army came in and killed every last cartel member, the demand for drugs would still remain and a new cartel would pop up as soon as the u.s. leaves. It would basically be Afghanistan all over again, a bunch of people will die, trillions of dollars will be spent only to have it all go to waste as soon as we leave.
Violence can’t solve the underlying social issues causing these groups to form.
The best solution would be the Vetinari solution - legalise the cartels, drop all cases against them, and leave them alone. In return, they must maintain law and order within their ranks, help the government catch unregulated gangsters, stop attacks on civilians, and pay tax.
The backing of the state is the biggest prize any criminal can get. Why do you think many pirates became privateers? And why do billionaires buy and bribe politicians? Now this is definitely not a good thing, but in the circumstances it might be the least bad option.
The difference is pirates lose to the navy. The cartels can stand up to the Mexican government and make their life hell if they try crack down on their activities.
Yes, Mexico will have to give them pretty significant concessions, which is definitely a problem. But at least they’ll stop shooting up busses full of civilians.
In June 2023, he said of one drug gang that had abducted 14 police officers: “I’m going to tell on you to your fathers and grandfathers,” suggesting they should get a good spanking.
How is this “fight” being represented? I ask, because in more than one occasion he’s been seen being close to El Chapo’s mother, do you mean he’s “fighting” cartels by negotiating with them? Or does this fight mean rather things like shouting “more hugs, less shootings”, or his menacing “I’ll tell on you to your mothers!” to the cartels?
Fighting them is gonna cause way more bus loads to die then just leaving them be. The cartels aren’t evil psychopaths who kill for fun, they know violence is bad for business. The only downside to leaving them alone is they’ll send more drugs to the u.s which isn’t Mexico’s problem.
You make it sound like I'm a dictator forcing people into a war.
I'm just being pragmatic. They have a large military tasked with protecting their citizens. Some of the Cartels are very much arguably terrorist organization. Indiscriminately murder and torture people in a very public way in order to scare others.
Fighting them would probably be painful at first but it would make the country a safer place in the end.
Not your call to make or even think about advocating for, ESPECIALLY not in the year 2024, gringo; continually talking like it is just outs you as a yankee chauvinist. Put your money where your mouth is and fight 'em yourself; at least even the fascist redditors that went to bat for Ukraine actually flew out rather than sitting back from a well-conditioned suburb like a FIVE-EYES armchair general.
Ok you got a serious cass of brain rot. I guess this is what I get for replying to a .ml tanky. Calls me a Gringo to just dismiss everything I said. Real insightful.
No shit it's not my call to make, I'm not a Mexican politician. However this is a English forum discussing the topic. Just because I'm an American doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to talk about a topic. In fact Cartels and America is pretty intertwined. As is Mexico and America. I also have family in Mexico. And so do a very, very large percentage of Americans.
Not really sure why you are so adamant on defending the Cartels. Unless your anti American fog is so bad that you can't see past the fact I'm American.
You really think I’m gonna side with genocidal Amerikan suburbanites on any geopolitical conflict after the last twenty years of Anglo bullshit inflicted upon the world at large? Ion’t believe shit you just said. Physically can’t.
Ahh it finally comes out. You're just a hateful individual. You're so blinded by whatever hateful propaganda you have been eating up over the years you can't even have a normal discussion on a topic with an American.
All NATO weapons sent to Ukraine are 100% accounted for and would never end up in the hands of criminals (the fascist Ukrainian state excluded). Nope, nothing to see here. Just peaceful Europe.
Need to be the akshually guy here. Russia is a deeply authoritarian state which has gotten a lot more authoritarian post war. However, it isn’t fascist yet.
Yeah maybe it isn't considered to be yet. However it's pretty rich to hear pro Russian people calling Ukraine fascists as Russia continues move towards fascism.
The tankies love to slurp up Russian propaganda that Ukraine are fascists and that’s why Russia are the good guys. If Russia isn’t fascist then I don’t know which country is, but if there were a scale then Russia is significantly closer to fascism than Ukraine.
I didn’t say anything about Russia. Don’t change the subject.
A report released in January by the Pentagon Inspector General’s office found that the Defense Department failed to conduct proper end-use oversight on more than $1 billion worth of military equipment — nearly forty thousand weapons — sent to Ukraine.
Mexican police went to America to be trained by their military. When police were sent back, they abandoned the government and became one of the most vicious and capable cartels on the planet.
If I was a rouge security agency who wanted to smuggle drugs into the US to fund secret, illegal and immoral wars around the world, I’d use a cartel just like that one.