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Statue of Anne Frank in Amsterdam defaced with pro-Palestinian graffiti for a second time

The statue commemorating Anne Frank, one of the most famous victims of the Holocaust, was defaced with pro-Palestinian graffiti for the second time on Sunday.

The statue is located in Merwedeplein, near the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam.

According to images published on X, the base of the statue was spray-painted with the slogan “Free Gaza” while the girl’s hands were painted with the same red color, AFP reported.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Ah yes, the notoriously pro-Israel Ann Frank. What with Israel existing before 1948.

How the fuck does this help anything?

AllNewTypeFace ,
@AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space avatar

Perhaps the GRU (Russian military intelligence) paid some petty criminals to do it, as they did with pro-Palestine graffiti on a Jewish cemetery in France a few months ago

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Could be. But it could just as easily be some stupid bigots taking advantage of a bad situation.

For example, I doubt this was Russians: www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/us/…/index.html

But I do look forward for a demand that Alfred Dreyfus be exhumed so we can conduct a Cadaver Synod and re-try him for Israeli genocide in Gaza.

Carrolade ,

I do recall an instance where they paid someone to spray paint a swastika and “Azov” on some mosque in MI, back in the early days of the war.

So, they are active with these sorts of tactics in the US. But yes, this is all just speculation at this point.

scarabic ,

I got banned from r/worldnews for suggesting same.

FatTony ,
@FatTony@discuss.online avatar

This is why lemmy deservers to remain underground.

scarabic ,

I’ve been on Reddit for 17 years. One of the first things that drew me to it was that I found an appreciable number of people who actually gave a fuck about the Palestinians and had their eyes open about Israel. It varies by sub but in this case I found myself asking “what happened to this place?”

DMBFFF ,
@DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

Hey, I was banned from that subreddit too! 😁🙂

scarabic ,

They are ban happy. Weaksauce moderating if you ask me.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

How the fuck does this help anything?

It helps conflate Palestinian opposition to the war in Gaza with German Fascism and the Holocaust. That’s to the benefit of Israeli Zionists.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I think Israelis doing this is the least likely of the scenarios suggested, the others being bigots and Russian operatives.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Israelis doing this

Plenty of possible culprits beyond the actual literal Israeli government. Could very well have been a troll with no political affiliation at all.

But the media coverage, the fixation on Palestinians as scary, violent, genocidal invaders, and the way this gets used to justify continued bombing in Gaza? That’s 100% right wing media.

eestileib ,

The Gazans are in the same position as Ann Frank. Wtf.

victorz ,

Just idiots, everyone involved. 🤦‍♂️

Lost_My_Mind ,

Hey! As an idiot, I resent that! I’m at least smarter than THAT!

This is more the work of the morons.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

It only takes 1% idiots to give enough anecdotal ammunition for the other side. It’s not the hard numbers that were ever in their favour anyway.

TheOriginalGregToo ,

Do you apply this same standard to the January 6th morons, or do you conveniently use their actions to paint everyone on the right as fascists and lunatics?

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Don’t be ridiculous, it’s all their other actions that make me think conservatives are either fascists or morons.

Floey ,

The majority of Republicans, both voters and lawmakers, held the same beliefs as the rioters about the credibility of the election. I doubt the majority of people who are pro Palestine have much against Anne Frank, but you’re free to do some of your own polling.

CanadaPlus ,

Personally, I don’t think everyone on the (American) right are fascists and lunatics. It seems to be the dominant strain, but perhaps you can change my mind.

What percentage or Republicans would you say support the efforts of January 6th? I seem to remember that polling says the majority believe Trump won the election.

Phoenicianpirate ,

Exactly. Things like this happened many times in the past. And it could be that this was done by Zionists or Nazis to pin on pro-Palestinian activitists. Not saying that this is the case, but it is a possibility.

CanadaPlus ,

Yeah, but if you even mention false-flag conspiracies, you make it sound like you need them to have a point. We don’t, that’s just not what our larger movement is about regardless of who did it. There are Jews, like technically me, in it; it’s not anti-Jewish.

Doom ,

Exactly.

The news is portraying it like wow how could someone defile such a respectful thing

It is to make the message clear I dunno Anne Frank but I doubt she’d be cool with bombing Palestinians

eldavi ,

I doubt she’d be cool with bombing Palestinians

i used to think any sane person would be; but i’m learning from this election cycle that they’re minimize it as being a “single issue voter.”

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

The statue is located in Merwedeplein, near the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam.

The Gazans aren’t the ones doing the defacement.

ShepherdPie ,

Kinda shows the stark contrast of how each are treated, especially with regards to the children.

DMBFFF ,
@DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

These days, Gaza is probably safer and more comfortable than a typical Nazi death camp.

victorz ,

Based on what? I’m in doubt.

DMBFFF ,
@DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

wp:Auschwitz concentration camp#Death toll

At least 1.3 million people were sent to Auschwitz between 1940 and 1945, and at least 1.1 million died.[7]

victorz ,

Death toll is one thing. You could be housed at a luxury hotel as a death row inmate.

But the safety and living conditions is another thing.

Kids are starving and ridden with septic diseases in Gaza as well, and everyone is slowly dying with nobody coming to help. On paper it seems pretty close IMO. Sadly.

But who knows except those in the actual situation.

Revan343 ,

Graffiti artists are often not well read

vga ,

One angry kid with a spray bottle. That’s all it takes for this to happen. Let’s not be crazy about the implications perhaps?

Agent641 ,

Nonsense, let’s drum it up into a big stupid story with actual geopolitical ramifications.

ILikeBoobies ,

In Canada we don’t blame Palestinians for all the hate crimes against Jews

We blame Canadians for trying to bring those issues over here

supersquirrel ,

I like how people are assuming if Anne Frank were alive she would be doing anything other than shouting to the world about ending the genocide in Gaza because genocides are the most terrible crime humanity can enact upon itself.

A statue is just some rock you paid somebody to carve.

Treczoks ,

I can understand the anger at Israel. But of all people, Anne Frank has the least to do with all the genocide of Palestinians.

NutWrench ,
@NutWrench@lemmy.zip avatar

"Let’s deface a memorial, dedicated to a young girl who was murdered by Nazis. NOW, people will have to listen to what I have to say!"

  • surprised Pikachu face * “Why didn’t that work?”
zarkanian ,
@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

I doubt there was that much thought put into it.

Duamerthrax ,

Pro-Palestinian idiots or Bad Actor/False Flag idiots?

Valmond ,

Yeah we had russians painting anti semitic crap here in France to stir shit up.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

No shortage of home grown antisemitism in France.

nomous ,

You French? Spend a lot of time there?

CanadaPlus ,

Impossible to tell. The former is the Occam’s and Hanlon’s razor answer, though.

Duamerthrax ,

Both are equally stupid. Both requires the same minimum effort to commit.

CanadaPlus ,

There’s also the issue that if you immediately suspect false flags when your people do bad stuff, but not when the other side does, that’s not very intellectually honest. Do that and you will rightfully look full of shit.

It doesn’t represent what we’re about, stick with that.

Duamerthrax ,

It also doesn’t matter which “side” did it. It’s a low effort type of attack. One person with a can of spray paint can do. It should not and can not be allowed to represent either group until the perpetrator is caught and investigated.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

People are scoffing at this, but in the UK you’ve got full blown fascist riots over the purely fictitious claim that a knife attack was perpetrated by a Muslim immigrant. The British far-right are burning mosques and storefronts in response to a social media slander.

Nuke_the_whales ,

It’s easier to blame a ghost than accept the shitheels on your side

sheogorath ,

Having some shitheels doesn’t invalidate that Israel is doing a genocide.

Nuke_the_whales ,

Israel. Israel. That’s the point, what the fuck does Anne Frank have to do with Israel?

zarkanian ,
@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

What makes you think that anybody here knows the answer to that question?

HomerianSymphony ,

It honestly could be either.

And both options are depressing.

xc2215x ,

Not the best place for that.

CluckN ,

It does help Israel with the, “Everyone who disagrees with our actions is antisemitic” angle.

scarabic ,

Yes. That is Israel’s only PR card only and they’ve been playing it over and over.

As an actual pro-Palestine act of protest, this is pure idiocy. It is plainly antisemitic and there is no grounds to hold Anne Frank accountable for the state of Israel. If a pro-Palestine protestor did this then they are an absolute moron and a bigot.

However. As a pro-Israel false flag, this is brilliant. It draws a tight connection between supporting Palestine and being anti-Semitic. It makes protestors look exactly like the bigots Israel wants them all to be.

So given that someone just ran up and did this under cover of night, we’re left with a decision: was it done by someone incredibly stupid or very smart? There are plenty of both in the world.

Nuke_the_whales ,

I keep being told that not a single Palestinian protestor is anti Semitic.

Pilferjinx ,

Whatever gave you that impression? I can’t see nazis being on the side of Israel. There’s probably complexity on views but defacing a concentration camp jew is missing the mark by a lot.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Who said anything about Nazis? The reality is that anti-semitism is not a uniquely European problem. Especially not with Israel’s actions

Pilferjinx ,

I just gave one example, that’s all

Floey ,

Actually plenty of Nazis are pro Israel, it might even be the default position. Israel can be both a place to send Jewish people to get them out of your country and an example to hold up of successful ethno nationalism. On top of that Nazis would revel in the deaths of Palestinians, the bigotry of Nazis extends further than antisemitism.

OfCourseNot ,
@OfCourseNot@fedia.io avatar

Do you have a source for that? Because antisemitism seems to be a core tenant of nazism according to everything I can find.

Also nazis, due to this antisemitism, seem to view Muslims as natural allies, see how neonazis celebrated 9-11 around the world (except in the USA) or this quote:

"...we could have emancipated the Moslem countries dominated by France...All Islam vibrated at the news of our victories...created a feeling of malaise among our Islamic friends..." Adolf Hitler. Last will and Testament.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

When they were still figuring out what people would publicly accept, the Nazis mostly favored deportation/displacement genocide rather than outright extermination.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

They were, of course, extremely aware that Madagascar could not support the entire Jewish population, but that was most of the point. Anti-semite support of Israel is not about liking Jewish people, it’s about gathering the diaspora into one place so it’s easier to kill them. Toss in a little Revelations-prophecy for Christian fundie flavor depending on the brand of Nazi.

OfCourseNot ,
@OfCourseNot@fedia.io avatar

...but the task force sent to evaluate the island's potential determined that only 5,000 to 7,000 families could be accommodated, or even as few as 500 families by some estimates.

...calling for the resettlement of a million Jews per year for four years, with the island being governed as a police state under the SS. They assumed that many Jews would succumb to its harsh conditions

That sounds more like 'outright extermination' than 'displacement' to me but ok.

I see you're not the oc but as someone defending their point I'll ask again, do you have any sources on these 'plenty of pro-Israel Nazis'?

kaffiene ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    Nuke_the_whales ,

    If you see this as a pro anything move, you got a problem

    kaffiene ,

    It’s clearly pro Palestinian. Whether it is antisemitic is an issue of perspective but I can see that I am on the minority here and I don’t really feel the need to convince you so Ill just accept that you disagree and leave it there

    MerchantsOfMisery ,

    I can’t help but think you’re being wilfully ignorant in a contrived attempt at making a nonsense point.

    Nuke_the_whales ,

    You kids all talk the same. I can picture exactly what you look like. Don’t insist over and over that there’s no anti Semitism mixed into this protest, and then get mad and call people ignorant when they point at it for you. Fix that shit, expel those fucks from your protests, instead of bitching to me online. Do something about it. And if you’re not part of these protests and all you do for the cause is sit online and bitch, shut the fuck up. Cause you’re not part of any of this. My children under 12 have suffered anti Semitism recently for being proud to be half Jewish. And I’m out there with teachers and city councillors trying to make changes so these protest stay on point and don’t veer off into bullshit.

    What are you doing?

    MerchantsOfMisery ,

    Why are you treating pro Palestinian people as a monolith? Learn to think critically and realize no protest can somehow rid itself of all shitty people. You’re being unreasonable and weirdly condescending because you’re older and somehow think it’s cool to talk down to folks based on age.

    Have I insisted there’s no anti-Semitism among the pro-Palestinian movement? No? Then why are you claiming I’ve insisted there’s no anti-Semitism? If I see or hear an anti-Semite in the pro-Palestinian, I would call that person/those people out, as I have in the past. Is that so hard to understand?

    Also very weird that you’re all “I can picture what you look like”. You’re being way too presumptuous and that’s why you feel so confidently incorrect.

    zarkanian ,
    @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

    You sound like those people who were more upset about the riots and looting than the fact that police were killing unarmed men.

    freeman ,

    Hate begets hate, not calm and rational responses.

    If this changes your opinion on Gaza-Israel; you are a fucking moron.

    If Hamas’ fighters being hateful and commiting war crimes changes your opinion on the conflict; you are a fucking moron.

    If you think no hamas fighter is hateful and has committed atrocities; you are a naive moron.

    If you are wondering why Israel is wrong and Palestinians in the right despite both sides’ soldiers (and “soldiers”) committing war crimes, it’s because Israel created this situation by occupying Palestine and trying to ethnically cleanse it.

    People in the West are way naive and sheltered from the realities of war, in part due to propaganda and how western war efforts have been portrayed as unrealistically “clean” and sanitized.

    raspberriesareyummy ,

    Good take. Except maybe missing the part where the west is complicit in the suffering of palestinians, and where the Arab nations starting a war vs. Israel taught Israel to be aggressive preemptively. And this is not an excuse, just an (incomplete) analysis how this clusterfuck came about.

    Allero ,

    I’d argue that currently, as Israel has existed for long enough for generations to be born, we cannot solve the issue by just removing it from the map. This really is a homeland for these people, and historic arguments are not valid, or else we have to rebuild an entire world map.

    But we can absolutely condemn both Israeli and Palestinian governments when they’ve gone too far.

    October attacks carried out by Hamas were a mistake; but that doesn’t excuse Israeli armed forces razing Gaza to the ground. War crimes, civilian deaths, mass destruction and leaving no ways to escape is not an appropriate response.

    Also, apartheid and blatant disrespect for Palestinian sovereignty, people and territory, as well as trying to dehumanize people living there are big reasons why this conflict happens in the first place, and that’s heavily on Israel.

    Would Hamas do the same if they had the power to do so? Absolutely. They are not known for respecting international law and being good at peace regulations. But this is not just Hamas vs. Israeli armed forces. Thousands upon thousands of innocent people are murdered without mercy. And it’s Israeli soldiers who perpetrate it.

    qevlarr ,
    @qevlarr@lemmy.world avatar

    Can’t remove Israel from the map? Maybe, maybe not. The important thing is that Jewish people can exist in a one state Palestine, with equal rights and dignity, but Israel can’t deprive the Palestinians from their rights any longer. The state of Israel has no right to exist, because its only justification has ever been the subjugation of other people living there. It needs to be a majority Jewish state per its theocratic charter, and they achieve this by removing non-Jewish people from their land, ie genocide

    Allero ,

    It would be odd to expect one state Palestine to give full rights and dignity to Jews, just as much as we can’t expect Israel to be fair and just to Palestinians.

    The state of Israel, along with trying to subjugate Palestinians, tries to protect the rights of Jews - something that will vanish instantly inside Palestine. Similarly, the state of Palestine not only tries to protect Palestinian Arabs, but also to subjugate Jews, it just doesn’t have equal power to do so.

    LadyAutumn , (edited )
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    How wildly misguided and disrespectful. That is assuming this was even done in earnest. Accusations of anti semitism are levied at anti-zionist action all the time and it’s hard to dismiss those accusations when legitimate anti-semitism frequently tries to associate itself with anti-zionism.

    I’m not even saying this couldn’t have been done by a legitimate anti-zionist who is also antisemitic. It just continually weakens the cause of anti colonialism when other forms of bigotry crop up around us. Anti semitism in all it’s forms is completely abhorrent and unacceptable. Advocating for the liberation of Palestinians should never invoke anti-Semitic ideology.

    Edit: if you’re curious how antisemitism could come to exist in leftist movements, read the comments below. Giving no thought to the impact our actions have is unacceptable. Pissing people off is not a worthy trade for making Jewish leftists feel unsafe in our movements.

    Madison420 ,

    It’s to make a statement and draw attention, protest is supposed to make you upset. That’s just how life works.

    Ed:

    About the letters, Otto wrote: ‘I often end my letters by writing: “I hope that Anne’s book will impact the rest of your life so that insofar as it is possible in your own circumstances, you will work for unity and peace.”’

    Otto died on 19 August 1980. Shortly before his death, he said in an interview: ‘I am almost ninety now and my strength is slowly fading. But the mission that Anne passed on, keeps giving me new strength - to fight for ,reconciliation and for human rights across the world.’

    Ie. Make the disrespect of Mrs Frank and her family visible by defacing a statue of her the same way Israel defaces Jewish history and legacy.

    zaph ,

    I get where you’re coming from but all this is going to do is fuel the fire under people who think support for Palestine is hate for the Jewish community as a whole.

    Madison420 ,

    People said that about MLK’s walks.

    zaph ,

    And if his walks included racist undertones those complaints would have been valid. Your rebuttal could be used against literally anything. The Oklahoma bombings were done in protest to Waco and other shit. You going to defend that protest because i think it was extremist and say it’s not the right way to protest? There’s a line and using MLK to justify crossing it is disgusting.

    Madison420 ,

    Calling it anti semitic is my definition making it racial, I didn’t do that.

    That’s correct, it wasn’t an effective protest because it didn’t get the change he wanted but did put his word out there, right here today I could get that manifesto in less than 30 seconds.

    I don’t think anyone is supporting violence like a bombing, this is literal paint. Calm down, they aren’t comparable at all.

    zaph ,

    It may not be the same as a bombing but the people whose minds they’re trying to change are only going to close further because they don’t want to be seen as supporting anti-semitism. Which when you’re defacing a jewish child’s statue seems like a not so far off stretch.

    Madison420 ,

    It’s not at all the same thing, you’re being bombastic about stupid shit.

    Defacing a genocide victims statue to bring light to an active genocide committed by members of her religion, famously mass victims of genocide now commiting genocide.

    You’re part of the problem, stop with the “protest the right way” bullshit.

    zaph ,

    So you think it’d be logical and a good move for trans civil rights activists to deface an mlk statue? Since apparently defacing victim monuments is your idea of a productive protest, why isn’t it happening?

    Madison420 ,

    Do you know remember last year or two when there was a rash of statue defacement that sparked meaningful conversation, you seen to just be I’ll informed based on your two weird comments.

    zaph ,

    You mean confederate statues? Or was an mlk statue defaced to fight police brutality and it slipped through my finders?

    Madison420 ,

    nprillinois.org/…/vandalized-mlk-statue-in-spring…

    Multiple statues multiple vandalizations. Maybe read a newspaper.

    www.mlk50.nl/50-statues/vandalism/

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    maybe you should provide relevant quotes to your links.

    Bigots deface MLK statues.

    Nazis deface Jewish things.

    Madison420 ,

    Genocide protestors paint genocide iconography.

    You hear genocide you think Holocaust and and Frank.

    Name a single better genocide symbol that would be a better target of vandalism to make a point.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    Name a single better genocide symbol

    maybe one who actually committed genocide.

    Madison420 ,

    I asked for one single better option and your choice was none.

    You proved my point.

    zaph ,

    And the people who did it were racist trying to be racist. Thanks for proving my point that at best it’s bad optics and damaging to their cause.

    An edit just to laugh at the thought that you were thinking you had me only to post links to mlk statues being beheaded during black history month. You really think the people who did that were supporting blm?

    Madison420 ,

    Yes. Yes, they vandalized a statue of a relevant figure. Racism = MLK, police = George Floyd, colonialism = Columbus.

    It’s not always the things they’re against that get vandalized, its what’s relevant and will be noticed.

    And that’s how I can tell you took it at face value and didn’t actually read anymore on the subject.

    Famous civil rights locations were vandalized and some burned down during civil rights protests… again, they do what gets attention which generally is what is annoying or controversial because literally no one cares if you chant outside Costco for 5 days.

    zaph ,

    Dog I asked for a source that someone advocating for civil rights defaced an mlk statue and you provided me with sources of people against civil rights defacing mlk statues. Stop pretending like i missed the point and touch grass.

    Madison420 ,

    Technically no, you said trans rights MLK was about racism, they’re both civil rights but they’re not comparable given that MLK is neither LGBTQ or oppressed because of LGBTQ.

    Your example makes no sense but I will point out those people were protesting civil rights just their horrific concept of what that means.

    Ie. Protesting for fewer civil rights is a civil rights protest just an incredibly stupid one.

    zaph ,

    was an mlk statue defaced to fight police brutality

    I asked a very specific question and you failed to answer it. No technically about it.

    Madison420 ,

    That you did. Specifically:

    So you think it’d be logical and a good move for trans civil rights activists to deface an mlk statue? Since apparently defacing victim monuments is your idea of a productive protest, why isn’t it happening?

    I linked several sources that civil rights protestors defaced MLK statues. They may have shitty reprehensible concepts of civil rights but they are protesting ostensibly for civil rights.

    I answered your question, it’s not my fault you were exceedingly vague.

    zaph ,

    they are protesting ostensibly for civil rights

    They are protesting against civil rights. You did not answer my question. Pro genocide people didn’t deface this statue. You have missed the point so completely it’s actually impressive.

    Madison420 ,

    For our against the protest is about civil rights, yes. You should be less vague.

    Correct, anti genocide protestors did it because she’s a Jew which is relevant and she’s a genocide victim which is more relevant, the fact she’s a Jewish genocide victim during a Jewish enacted pogram is sorry super goddamn relevant.

    Zionists are the ones pushing that it’s anti semitic because it works, the reason it works? It’s people like you who say protest the “right way.”

    zaph ,

    was an mlk statue defaced to fight police brutality

    The answer is no. It was a concise question and you failed.

    Madison420 ,

    There’s a case of it in the sources but ok and similarly that’s you later being less vague, I answered your first question and your more specific question and you’re still complaining.

    You could just explain how it relates to this statue right now, one would imagine you’re attempting to say that since it’s “never been done before” it shouldn’t be done now. Going based on that I imagine you aren’t aware the statue is routinely vandalized and this is the sole time it hasn’t been for anti semitic/Holocaust denial, that means something.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    Protest the right way.

    ​

    ^((at least try to.)^)

    Madison420 ,

    Hey thrown out the window the right way.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    There are times and places.

    Madison420 ,

    Something tells me you adore Hugo boots Mr bot.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    What would a bot want with boots?

    Madison420 ,

    Nazis boots 8 are presumably just as fashion forward as their Nazi creators.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    this is literal paint.

    used to deface a memorial to a victim of genocide.

    Madison420 ,

    To bring light to genocide.

    Imagine for a second that Anne frank wasn’t a Jew just the most famous genocide victim of all time, would it then be ok to deface the statue being directly relevant to the reason for protest.

    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    But she was Jewish. She was a Jewish victim of a genocide of jewish people. It is a very prominent opinion that those advocating for Palestinian liberation are promoting a genocide of jewish people.

    Madison420 ,

    Where in that graffiti do you see anti semitic anything.

    As far as I’m aware red hands means there is blood on their hands and free Gaza means… I suppose this isn’t complicated but “free Gaza”.

    You are adding anti semitism where there isn’t any.

    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Again, I can see the possible intent behind this. And I agree that it was most likely not done with the intention of coming across as anti Semitic. But that is how others see it. Read the news articles about it. Look at the comments people have left.

    And blood on their hands? Them being what? Jewish people? Are you saying that all Jewish people bear responsibility for the crimes of the state of Israel?

    Madison420 ,

    No we know it wasn’t because there’s nothing anti semitic on it, nothing. Your implying something that doesn’t exist. Yes, the news makes money by sparking culture was bullshit and making mountains of molehills. Find me something the news doesn’t make seem like the end of the goddamn world and I’ll be more surprised.

    Goddamn did you look at the picture? It’s describing the graffiti.

    Ed: and I quote

    According to images published on X, the base of the statue was spray-painted with the slogan “Free Gaza” while the girl’s hands were painted with the same red color, AFP reported.

    “It looks like x or it looks like y”, you clearly haven’t even seen the graffiti but you’re off arguing about it.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    Nazis deface these kind of things, so if such are defaced, it’s reasonable to suspect Nazis or those doping so to be sympathetic to Nazis.

    Madison420 ,

    Sure.

    What’s your reasoning to think this was “Nazis”.

    I’ll wait Mr bot.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    They murdered Ann Frank.

    Madison420 ,

    How long did it take you to research that irrelevant fuckin point.

    Who programmed your buggy ass?

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    How long did it take you to research that irrelevant fuckin point.

    I think it’s relevant.

    ​

    Who programmed your buggy ass?

    The same guy who programmed you. 😏

    Madison420 ,

    That’s awesome, that doesn’t change that it isn’t.

    Objectively wrong, it’s just a dumb insult that doesn’t make logical sense so you’re not exactly vivifying anyone you’re not a bot.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    you’re not a bot.

    You imply that I am, then say I’m not.

    Make up your mind.

    Madison420 ,

    No, your dipshit joke implied we have the same father.

    Like I said you must be 12v running on 9v.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    No, your dipshit joke implied we have the same father.

    It did?

    ​

    Like I said you must be 12v running on 9v.

    That doesn’t sound good.

    Madison420 ,

    If you had the other 3v maybe you’d know.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    okay.

    Madison420 ,

    Trolling ain’t so fun when people are ok with being as annoying as you are. Now is it?

    Why you insisted yourself into at least half of my comment chains on the subject of beyond me.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    okay.

    Madison420 ,

    You done then? No more harassing me with stupid shit following me comment to comment?

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    Is it harassment to reply to insults?

    Madison420 ,

    You initiated every conversation with me simply to annoy me and say nothing, that’s harassment.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    I didn’t initiate as much as I replied.

    Madison420 ,

    No you initiated, to reply I would have had to speak to you first which didn’t happen. Though it may be amusing chronology escapes you, stop bothering me dude. You’ve been warned.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    You don’t own this thread, and you can report and/or block me at any time.

    Madison420 ,

    You’re sending me a half dozen comments every minute and relying to every new comment i make so I stopped making them.

    You’re harassing me and you know it quick is why you stopped even trying to make a point and devolved to just saying random dumb shit.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    You’ve really made no good points.

    Madison420 ,

    You’ve made no points, you’ve spouted bullshit and the only anti religious shit here.

    Good job.

    Go away.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    Imagine for a second that Anne frank wasn’t a Jew just the most famous genocide victim of all time, would it then be ok to deface the statue being directly relevant to the reason for protest.

    How would it be relevant to the reason of the protest?

    Madison420 ,

    Oh Mr bot you’re not even making sense.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    And if his walks included racist undertones those complaints would have been valid.

    American white nationalists regularly insisted they did and claimed that they were being victimized by angry black mobs.

    Subsequent efforts by Hoover’s FBI during the COINTELPRO operation aimed at black civil rights leaders attempted to stock those fears and legitimize them with fabricated evidence in support of the claim.

    zaph ,

    Yes that is my point. He wasn’t doing actual racist shit so they had to make stuff up. Genociders won’t have that problem here.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    He wasn’t doing actual racist shit so they had to make stuff up.

    And large numbers of White Americans believed it, because they were primed to assume colored people were monsters.

    Genociders won’t have that problem here.

    Stocking the hate towards Arabs is a pivotal part of the war effort against Gaza.

    zaph ,

    Stocking the hate towards Arabs is a pivotal part of the war effort against Gaza.

    And, in my opinion, spray painting “free gaza” on a statue depicting a jewish teenager who died in the holocaust is only going to help them have something to point at and say “see, we’re right”

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    If you look at a Holocaust victim’s memorial tagged with a condemnation of another Holocaust, and you think you yourself “Arab people deserve to be exterminated”…

    zaph ,

    Well they’re currently being exterminated for simply existing so ellipsis right back at ya

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    American white nationalists regularly insisted they did and claimed that they were being victimized by angry black mobs.

    They aren’t credible.

    ​

    Subsequent efforts by Hoover’s FBI during the COINTELPRO operation aimed at black civil rights leaders attempted to stock those fears and legitimize them with fabricated evidence in support of the claim.

    Are you saying the person who did the defacing is an agent of the Israeli government?

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    They aren’t credible.

    In the 1950s and 60s, they were considered extremely credible.

    Are you saying the person who did the defacing is an agent of the Israeli government?

    No more than I am suggesting J. Edgar Hoover was Jewish.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    In the 1950s and 60s, they were considered extremely credible.

    I don’t think so.

    ​

    No more than I am suggesting J. Edgar Hoover was Jewish.

    or the Mossad infiltrated black groups in the US, I suppose. 😏

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t think so.

    Shrug George Wallace was a governor for multiple terms. Strom Thurmond was a senator for decades. Nixon won the South on racism.

    Mossad infiltrated black groups in the US

    Black radical groups tended to align with Islam, particularly later into the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    George Wallace lost to Nixon in 1968.

    What did Nixon say about MLK?

    I know little about Thurmond, but what did the bigot from the small state of South Carolina say about MLK in the 1950s and 1960s?

    ​

    I’m sure at times the Mossad infiltrated Islamic groups.

    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    They did and they were wrong but his walks also did not bolster claims of anti semitism by defacing memorials to holocaust victims

    Madison420 ,

    It bolstered the concept of the “entitled ni**er” at the time, read a newspaper taking about it before it happened.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    Please link us to articles and commentaries in such (supposed) newpapers.

    Madison420 ,

    I’ll look them up when I get home but your trying to get me to prove racist comments in 1964 and somehow think that’s a high bar to jump.

    Either history escapes you or you are wildly ignorant.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ll look them up when I get home but your trying to get me to prove racist comments in 1964 and somehow think that’s a high bar to jump.

    Good luck, and try to make them major dailies. Rantings by, say, The KKK Times won’t count.

    ​

    Either history escapes you or you are wildly ignorant.

    both.

    Madison420 ,

    You honestly think it’s going to be hard to find racism in a newspaper from 1964, you know sitting marches about racist shit in newspapers for instance.

    Bold admission boss, seriously. Your creator has some work to do.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    You have your work cut out.

    I don’t envy you.

    Many newspapers have paywalls and/or ads, and there’s a lot of crap on Google.

    Madison420 ,

    You act like libraries don’t exist.

    And I mean that as you’re seemingly unaware you can look at old newspapers for free at your local library and also that you seem dumb enough to never have been at a library and honestly don’t know.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m in Toronto, the 4th most populated city in North America, but even here I have to travel several km to get to libraries where I might be able to access microfiche slides and IIUC libraries here aren’t open 24/7.

    Again, your task, should you indeed choose it, probably won’t be an easy one.

    Madison420 ,

    Oh my several kilometers! How could anyone do that.

    All you’re saying is that you’re extremely lazy and very annoying.

    Stop.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    You’re the one who supposedly has links to relevant pieces in newspapers of the 50s and 60s.

    I say you don’t and you won’t unless you are willing to put in a fair amount of effort and time in finding them.

    Again, I don’t envy you.

    Madison420 ,

    I went to school and we did projects on things and used libraries, things you seemingly are amazed by. Not surprising.

    It’s the reason I’m not blocking you dipshit. So please stop hammering me with with dozens of comments filled with meaningless drivel.

    Are you proud to be a troll, or like why are you being an abuser?

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    Is replying to people who insult me abuse?

    ​

    we did projects on things and used libraries,

    Did these projects involve looking for 60 and 70 year-old newspaper articles and commentary?

    Madison420 ,

    You don’t think following someone from comment to comment only to say random words at them to annoy them somehow isn’t abuse.

    Also note that I didn’t speak to you first, you sought me out in multiple to harass.

    Yes, did you not have a history class?

    Also again, stop harassing me dude.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    and now you’re blocked.

    Madison420 ,

    Oh no! It’s not like I asked you to fuck off or that you instigated every single goddamn comment.

    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I get that angle, I do. I just question whether the statement works or not. Do you think the majority of people will interpret these actions that way? Do you think this will paint a good picture of anti-zionist action to the wider international public? Drop the “pro-palestinian” part and the headline reads like probably neo-nazi action. And I do firmly believe that’s how it will be interpreted. I’m a revolutionary leftist like I’m all for taking action this action just serves not to advance the cause but actually to degrade it. This action legitimizes accusations of anti semitism levied at anti zionists. That is exactly how it will be interpreted that is the exact story they will tell.

    They’ll always try and accuse us of being antisemitic, see the college protests for example. But that was contentious like the public was not united in opposition to that because protesting on campus is not on its face value antisemitic. But defacing a statue of a girl who was murdered in a genocide of jewish people does NOT come across as anti-zionist action. We do NOT have to stir up outrage over disrespecting holocaust victims to advocate for Palestinian liberation.

    Not to mention can we not have some respect for Jewish people within our movement? How do you think this makes them feel? An innocent girl who died due to virulent antisemitic hatred being brought into a conflict over another genocide. Jewish people tell us they don’t always feel safe in leftist circles. This is also not helping that in any way

    Madison420 ,

    I think the conversation is only elevated the now annoyed they are about the protest act. Historically effective protest is to literally rattle as many cages as possible, people get annoyed and take a side.

    English suffrage was only gained by breaking windows, burning buildings, donning cardboard armor then learning judo and beating the absolute shit out of cops.

    Ed: I think it’s more disrespectful for her to drag the Jewish faith along with Zionists solely because they claim the same religion, that’s the whole point of attacking a famous Jew that cannot physically be harmed only defaced temporarily.

    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    To be clear, totally down with civil unrest. This is not civil unrest. This is defacing a statue of a universally known holocaust victim. A victim who was a helpless child.

    Rattling the cage of “innocent victims of genocide” is literally the last fucking cage anyone should ever rattle like what are you talking about. This is the shit that neo nazis do. This action puts us in league with neonazis in the mind of the majority of the public like what do you mean?? Also how is defacing genocide victim statues doing anything to further our cause of international recognition of the genocide of Palestinian?

    Break some windows. Civil unrest, fight back against the states that support this genocide. No question yea do that. Don’t deface Anne Franke statues like I genuinely can’t even believe this has to be said. Again, how do you think this makes jewish anti-zionists feel? Does this make them feel welcome in our movement?

    Madison420 ,

    Correct that’s protest, the fact that you find it repugnant is irrelevant. You’re talking about it, you wouldn’t be if they painted pro Palestine stuff anywhere else.

    Anne and her father are both dead and their family aren’t pro Israel, just as an fyi because their cages literally couldn’t get rattled. I meant people like you, people more wrapped up in the statue and it’s visage than the reason it was defaced in the first place. Yes, everyone protests, that’s not the dig you think it is.

    This is a broken window, it hurts literally no one and says a lot. Are you arguing for other means that often turn more violent than anonymous defacement? Why? You’re valuing a chunk of material depicting a famous over millions of Innocent Palestinians, why is that?

    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Did you miss the part where i said that I understood the intent but am calling out how this makes our movement look like fucking neo nazis? Do you want to re read what I’ve said please before throwing more baseless accusations at me?

    No I wouldn’t give a shit if they painted pro Palestine messages on any non-holocaust related memorials. Because that wouldn’t make us look like neo nazis. This does. People are going to talk about this on the news today and millions of people will shake their head and lend more credence to claims that we are antisemites. And Jewish anti zionists now know that due to their religion some anti zionists are entirely willing to throw them under a bus in the name of “rattling cages”.

    Madison420 ,

    It doesn’t make anyone look like neo Nazis aside from the people who cannot see duality.

    Yes she’s a Jew, neat.

    She’s also the most famous victim of genocide ever.

    There’s a current genocide that is being committed by isrealis a famously majority Jewish nation.

    The fact that you can’t see her as anything but a Jew is more telling of you than anyone else.

    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Re read the first paragraph of the comment you’re responding to. I’m not interested in continuing this conversation if you are entirely incapable of considering how this will be viewed and how this impacts people without our own movement.

    Madison420 ,

    The way it will be viewed is the point!

    There trying to force people to see that people can be two things, a Jew and a victim of genocide and that dichotomy is important considering the current genocide is being committed by Jews against Palestinians largely because of religious and possesive reasons.

    I’m not interested in talking with anyone who refuses to go full stop, I don’t enjoy apologists.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    She was murdered before 1948.

    Madison420 ,

    Super irrelevant Mr bot.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    You don’t think Nazis murdering teenage girls is relevant?

    Madison420 ,

    Random dates without context or relation are always going to be irrelevant. Complete a full thought, have your owner replace those watch batteries.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t think the murder was random.

    Madison420 ,

    It is, you never connected it to anything.

    About 200 civilians died today, your point? Or are we hanging random facts with no context or a full thought.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    8 billion people x 1.25% this year ÷ 366 days is over 273 000.

    Over a quarter million people died today.

    Madison420 ,

    Civilians in Gaza you bafoon.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    Civilians in Gaza you bafoon.

    Madison420 ,

    And that’s why we call it harassment, you didn’t even bother to say anything. You’re just sending shit to annoy me.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Madison420 ,

    Neat, stop.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Removed, trolling.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    This is a broken window, it hurts literally no one and says a lot. Are you arguing for other means that often turn more violent than anonymous defacement? Why? You’re valuing a chunk of material depicting a famous over millions of Innocent Palestinians, why is that?

    What’s your opinion of Qur’an burnings and depictions of the pedophile prophet?

    Madison420 ,

    Legit speech, go for it.

    Though I will point out three fact that the only one who’s being objectively racist and bigoted here is you just now with that statement.

    You like Jews and don’t like Muslims, good for you but maybe keep your hate speech to yourself.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    There are many Christians and Muslims, and the few Jews I’ve meet, that I like; but all 3 of their religions are dumb.

    Calling a man who had sex with a 9 year-old a pedophile isn’t hate speech.

    Madison420 ,

    Sure, I don’t disagree religion is dumb.

    It is, the bible and Torah also have incest and pedophilia, pointing out one but not the others implies one is worse than the others.

    I didn’t say it was hate speech btw, I said you were being racist and bigoted which you objectively are.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    It is, the bible and Torah also have incest and pedophilia, pointing out one but not the others implies one is worse than the others.

    I often mock Christianity based on Bible verses. In Leviticus, lesbians aren’t condemned, the New Testament says women should generally shut up, and King Solomon was a tit-man.

    ​

    I didn’t say it was hate speech btw, I said you were being racist and bigoted which you objectively are.

    You are so accurate.

    Please, tell me what else do you objectively know about me.

    Madison420 ,

    Maybe so, you didn’t this time you only chose Muslims. Now remind me, what is Palestine largely made up of? Oh yeah Muslims, I wonder if that’s relevant and why I called you a bigot.

    You just admitted to hating religion, that’s objectively by your own admission bigoted. You ain’t too smart are ya, you running on a Gameboy with half dead batteries or something?

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m a bigot because I hate a religion?

    Madison420 ,

    By definition yes.

    a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

    You know, like a religion or something.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

    huh?

    Madison420 ,

    It’s the definition of a bigot, keep up hoss. I know it’s hard to keep up when you reply to all of my comment chains but you brought that on yourself.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    IIUC, bigotry is against a person or people.

    Madison420 ,

    So add can’t read or doesn’t trust dictionaries to the pile of stupid shit you’ve said today.

    a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

    a person who is intolerant or hateful toward people whose race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc., is different from the person’s own.

    a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who does not like other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life:

    I find it fixing hilarious you either don’t know or are arguing against the definition of bigotry on a comment chain discussing… Bigotry.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    wt:bigot#English

    Noun

    bigot (plural bigots)

    1a. One who is narrow-mindedly devoted to their own ideas and groups, and intolerant of (people of) differing ideas, races, genders, religions, politics, etc.

    2b. (obsolete) One who is overly pious in matters of religion, often hypocritically or else superstitiously so.

    Madison420 ,

    Way to provide a definition that agrees you’re a bigot, bold of you to be so proud of.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    bigotry ≠ opposition

    Madison420 ,

    Saying you hate them have your a bigot.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    Where did I say I hated any person ITT?

    Madison420 ,

    You literally reduced everyone to religion, you clearly hate religion.

    Everyone is bigoted in some way for some reason, yours happens to be race and religion. Notably you still seem to misconstrue anti semitic and anti Judaic.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    You literally reduced everyone to religion,

    no I didn’t.

    Madison420 ,

    You did.

    Stop.

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    Where?

    Madison420 ,

    Stop

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    Where it started:

    lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/10027210

    Okay, I replied to you before you did me, but you you condescended on that person.

    Madison420 ,

    So you found out your wrong and instead blame it on me for a different reason so you can feel less shitty about harassing someone who holds a different opinion than you do and you deign to take umbrage with the way I speak to you.

    However did you get so full of yourself.

    EatATaco ,

    Many people find antisemitism to be upsetting. Just because it’s being done as protest to upset people doesn’t change what it is.

    Madison420 ,

    It’s not anti semitic it’s anti zionic, Otto famously refusing to move to Israel and instead to iirc Switzerland.

    The fact people know who Anne is and what the protest is about makes it very telling when people say it’s anti semitic in the same way people say being anti zionic is anti semitic.

    EatATaco ,

    Anne Frank has nothing to do with Zionism. She was dead long before the formation of Israel. She represents the suffering, struggles, and genocide of the Jews at the hands of the Nazis.

    It would be like walking up to a Jewish person, regardless of their position on Zionism, and punching them in the face and then trying to claim it isn’t antisemitism but a protest against Zionism.

    Sorry, but it is. They might not realize that they are blaming all Jews for Zionism, but that’s precisely what they are doing.

    Madison420 ,

    Wrong, she’s a famous public figure who’s family are openly anti Israeli. Neither her not her father Otto are likely to take issue to drawing attention to genocide… You know being arguably the most famous victim of it. But no no she’s a Jew that’s all she’ll ever be, you’re right how shameful of me to suggest otherwise.

    Not at all the same, who’s harmed here? Your best example is actual physical violence when we’re talking about inanimate property.

    Nope what you’re doing is implying that because she is a new she cannot be a symbol for Palestinians actively being genocided by members of her faith.

    EatATaco ,

    But no no she’s a Jew that’s all she’ll ever be, you’re right how shameful of me to suggest otherwise.

    Wait, you’re arguing that her family would be for them defacing her memorial? Wow. No wonder you have to make up my position.

    But no no she’s a Jew that’s all she’ll ever be, you’re right how shameful of me to suggest otherwise.

    What if they painted a swastika on it? No one was harmed. Is that also nothing like the analogy I made?

    Nope what you’re doing is implying that because she is a new

    No, what I’m saying is that targeting her for the protest, when she has nothing to do with Israel, makes it pretty clear they are targeting her because she is a jew. If you want to deface a genocide memorial to make your point about Gazans being the victim of genocide, it wouldn’t expose your antisemitism if you targeted memorials of victims other genocides.

    Madison420 ,

    No, I suggested her family would be ashamed of you for reducing her to just a jew, you ignore the genocide victim section and instead claim antisemitism solely because she’s Jewish.

    That’s hate speech, there’s laws for that. There isn’t for making valid comparisons.

    She may have nothing to do with Israel, but she has everything to do with genocide, the fact you can’t see that over her religion is the fucking point.

    EatATaco ,

    No, I suggested her family would be ashamed of you for reducing her to just a jew

    I certainly never did anything of the sort. Which is what I mean about making up my position. You can’t debate what I said, so you have to make up something ridiculous to attack.

    But this still doesn’t answer my question. We are talking about someone defacing her memorial, and you said “Neither her not her father Otto are likely to take issue to drawing attention to genocide.”

    I can only interpret this one of two ways: either you think they would be okay with people defacing her memorial, or you think that I’m against drawing attention to genocide. I can assure you the latter is not true, but can you explain? Maybe I’m missing something.

    you ignore the genocide victim section and instead claim antisemitism solely because she’s Jewish.

    I very explicitly told them what they could do about the genocide part of it without exposing their antisemitism.

    the fact you can’t see that over her religion is the fucking point.

    Again, many other genocide memorials one could deface, including right in Amsterdam. You seem to be projecting: you think that I’m focusing solely on her being Jewish, while you are seemingly ignoring it from your point.

    Madison420 ,

    You are though, the fact you don’t see it is my point.

    They wouldn’t have an issue with someone spattering a statue with paint to draw attention to something she died from and he lived through. No, that seems like common sense and Otto talked quite a bit about his feelings about genocide. I’m not even sure how you screwed up plain English that badly unless you’re simply trying to twist what I said.

    They would be ok with someone defacing the memorial to draw attention to genocide, notice that haven’t made a statement something they would do of it bothered them. I’m saying your actions say you’re against drawing attention to genocide, your motivations may be different but looking from the outside in reducing someone to a jew and not a icon is pretty shitty behavior.

    How did they expose their anti semitism? As far as I’m aware all they did was paint pro Palestine stuff, there’s no indication as far as I’m aware that any of it was directly anti semitic only that people have taken it that way because she is Jewish.

    Are the others as famous? No? Are they Jews? No. You want then to “protest the right way” you’re part of the problem.

    EatATaco ,

    that seems like common sense

    You’re confusing what you want to be true with “common sense.” I’m not saying you are wrong, I don’t know the man so to me it’s “common sense” not to speak for him, but I find it terribly presumptuous to believe that they would be okay with this.

    I’m saying your actions say you’re against drawing attention to genocide

    It’s a ridiculous logic jump from because I think their actions are antisemitic, that means I’m against drawing attention to the genocide. It’s the same exact ridiculously baseless logic that Netenyahu and so many Zionists are using to paint any protest of their actions as antisemitism. It’s shocking to see it used “in reverse.”

    but looking from the outside in reducing someone to a jew and not a icon is pretty shitty behavior.

    It’s kind of hilarious for you to use this argument while arguing that it’s ridiculous to assume that defacing the a jewish memorial is antisemitic, when there is zero link for the former and a pretty glaring one for the latter.

    You want then to “protest the right way” you’re part of the problem.

    Again, putting words in my mouth. I’m just pointing out how defacing a memorial of a jewish person that has nothing to with Zionism reeks of antisemitism. Also, funny, how you telling me protesting their actions with my words is wrong and I’m against drawing attention the genocide, are basically telling me to “protest the right way.” What’s good for the goose, my friend.

    Madison420 ,

    Are you seriously arguing the family wouldn’t want genocide bright to light? Are you actually dumb are just choosing idiotic arguments. Maybe I do, the family isn’t hidden of you cared you’d reach out but you’d rather be enraged than involved in a meaningful way.

    Your comment just now doesn’t make it seem any less like your pro genocide dude, your honestly arguing that the family might be pro genocide.

    You’re only keeping nety by being so reductive you don’t see the reason why Anne frank is the perfect icon for this.

    Defacing a genocide memorial to bring light to genocide isn’t anti semitic, it’s apt and you’re blind. It’s what I mean when I say you reduce her to solely a Jew.

    No I’m using your statements against you, stop saying crazy shit and it won’t be as easy.

    I’m not telling you how to do anything, I’m calling out your bigoted bullshit.

    EatATaco ,

    Are you seriously arguing the family wouldn’t want genocide bright to light?

    I already explicitly and directly told you this is untrue, and yet you still misrepresent it. Why? What purpose does it serve you to continually misrepresent my position?

    your honestly arguing that the family might be pro genocide.

    You can’t tell the difference between saying they might be against a memorial to their daughter being vandalized and being pro-genocide? “Are you actually dumb are just choosing [sic] idiotic arguments. [sic]”

    It’s what I mean when I say you reduce her to solely a Jew.

    Incorrect. What I’m saying is that her Jewishness in inextricably tied to her and a memorial to her and the genocide of Jewish people. Again, you keep seeming to ignore it, but there are other genocide monuments right in Amsterdam that they could have defaced and still done the “defacing a genocide memorial to draw attention to a genocide.”

    I’m not telling you how to do anything,

    You’re literally accusing me of supporting genocide by my protest of their actions. It’s the same exact thing I’m doing with their antisemitic protest. The difference is that I can logically support my claim, while yours requires ignoring what I’ve explicitly told you is my position.

    Madison420 ,

    It’ll take however many times I have to tell you you’re being a bigot it seems.

    I’m saying they likely wouldn’t given you know the whole genocide thing being kind of a big issue for their family. You’re actively arguing against logic.

    Indeed. So you not see how her being a Jew could be related to a Jewish nation genociding people like a ostensibly Catholic nation genocided the Jews… It’s not irrelevant or anti semitic to say Israelis out of all nations should know what genocide looks like. Ok, what statue works better for you? Hitler, Himmler, are you suggesting they go vandalize the Holocaust museum. Seriously I’m interested, what person or place is more iconic in relation to Jews being genocided than the most famous genocided Jew?

    I am, I’m not however telling you to do anything. I’m hoping you see how bigoted it is to say she can be a icon of genocide but can’t be brought up because she’s Jewish. You’re the bigoted one, you just don’t see that your weird white knight attitude is keeping you from seeing the forest for the trees.

    Ed: to be clear I think you mean well you’re going so far away from trying to be bigoted you ended up bigoted.

    ShepherdPie ,

    What’s antisemitic about it? The same thing that happened to her is happening to Palestinian children right now and this message is just highlighting the disparity between the two in the response from the rest of the world.

    atro_city ,

    This is how people confuse Jews with Zionists and Israelis. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes they are only one of the options, but they are not synonyms.

    Streamwave ,

    Appalling but antisemitism is becoming increasingly mainstream in Europe unfortunately

    DMBFFF ,
    @DMBFFF@lemmy.world avatar

    Which makes the idea of a Zionist state all the more justified. Happy, or more aptly less sad, the European Jews who spent the years between 1935 to 1945 in Palestine, and not the antisemitic shithole that was Europe (and by “Europe” I also mean United Kingdom and Russia/the USSR).

    Streamwave ,

    Haviv Rettig Gur put it very accurately and concisely, if brutally, in a lecture he gave recently:

    For Jews In the 21st century, you either learned English or Hebrew or you were killed.

    As a Brit myself (English, Catholic, English as far back as Ancestry can tell etc.) I’m really ashamed of this country since October 7th. It’s as if we felt that we had been impervious to the very deep, ancient cancer of antisemitism due to WW2. And that seems to have left us even more defenceless than many other European states which have at least tried at points to contain this.

    cygnus ,
    @cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

    Brave anti-imperialists at it again!

    RampantParanoia2365 ,

    Netenyahoo should be responsible for cleaning it

    MediaBiasFactChecker Bot ,

    CBS News - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)Information for CBS News:
    > MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: High - United States of America
    > Wikipedia about this source

    Search topics on Ground.Newshttps://www.cbsnews.com/news/anne-frank-statue-amsterdam-defaced-pro-palestinian-graffiti-second-time/

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