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phoenixz ,

So does that mean that NATO can also start deploying troops there? I mean, so far we’ve kept out to not escalate this, but if actual foreign troops will set foot on that front line, you can only wait so long for the other side to do the same…

FiniteBanjo ,

No, because Ukraine is not a NATO member because they cannot join while already at war. If the USA got involved directly then the international community in the UN and even NATO itself would have mixed responses, perhaps even leading to NATO withdrawals and economic sanctions.

However, the USA have started allowing private mercenary companies to participate directly in the conflict, and they’ve had indirect support specialists from the US Military in the region for a long time.

phoenixz ,

You’re right, but I meant it more sarcastically. Russia started the conflict and is escalating it at every turn that it can, hoping the west will back down and too ma y times we have. I’m pretty sure that the backing down is just about over by now, though

TheBigBrother ,

If US and NATO are supporting Ukraine I didn’t see what’s the problem if China and North Korea support Russia…

AmbiguousProps ,

It’s almost like Ukraine is better than NK, from a moral and logical perspective. Ukraine isn’t starving their own people, nor are they “disappearing” the local Muslim population á-la China. They’re simply defending themselves.

TheBigBrother , (edited )

According to you logic US it’s supporting Israel so I believe your “moral” and “logic” is pretty twisted…

AmbiguousProps ,

The US isn’t sending troops into Gaza. This story is about NK sending troops into Ukraine. It’s not hard to see the clear difference.

TheBigBrother , (edited )

Nice slippery slope…

Edit: Israel didn’t even need soldiers, Palestinians didn’t even have weapons to defend themselves and are starving to death, so money and weapons will do the work to continue with the genocide.

AmbiguousProps ,

Huh? In what way was what I said a “slippery slope”? This article is literally talking about NK sending troops to Ukraine. I wasn’t even the one to bring up NATO or the US in the first place.

I wholeheartedly believe Palestine should be freed and that we shouldn’t be supplying weapons at all. The genocide is disgusting. But at least the US isn’t using US troops, nor are they doing trade deals to send more poor people into Gaza (like NK and Russia are doing in this article, except in Ukraine instead of Gaza).

small44 ,

Sorry but sending arms or soldiers is equally bad

nova_ad_vitum ,

It’s definitely not.

homesweethomeMrL ,

Best to block and move on. There’s no useful dialogue to be had - many have tried.

homesweethomeMrL ,

There they are! The gENoSiDe JoE contingent. Still a bunch of y’all wandering around unblocked. Not to worry!

Ferrous ,

Remind me how many Neo-Nazi battalions are in the DPRK? Or where in the DPRK constitution there is a provision to protect their gene pool?

AmbiguousProps ,

What does that have to do with anything? Are you attempting to say Ukraine has those and therefore all of Ukraine deserves to be killed? Good job attempting to change the subject, I guess. Better invade every country on earth since Nazis are literally everywhere, civilian casualties be damned. Better invade your own country too.

PS. Russia does not actually care about Nazis, they have their own after all. They only want Ukraine’s land, ports, and people.

btaf45 ,

The Neo-Nazis are in Russia working with NK.

The Axis of Evil

Treason Trump - War Criminal Putin - Caligula Jong Un - Comrade Xi

calcopiritus ,

Good old Russian propaganda.

mozz ,
@mozz@mbin.grits.dev avatar

I don’t think anyone is saying they shouldn’t be allowed to do it; just that they think it’s going to go poorly

Also I would add that it’s a moderately dire sign as far as the state of Russia’s manpower levels. Every country at war desperately wants more soldiers at all times but some desperates are more desperate than other desperates.

dogslayeggs ,

You don’t see the difference in supporting a country defending itself from being invaded versus aiding a country that is invading?

banghida ,

They probably don’t see it, no.

jaybone ,

Tankies are too busy being edgy to care about glaring nuance.

bluGill ,

If China directly supports Russia NATO will throw sanctions on them and that will hurt China. China is supporting Russia, but they are walking a find line as China cannot afford to make NATO mad. (NATO also will hurt, which is why NATO is looking the other way, but how long will NATO put up with China is an open question)

jaybone ,

All the west should sanction China. But we need to have toilet paper production back onshore first.

Hubi ,
@Hubi@feddit.org avatar

Financial support and sending foreign soldiers directly to the frontline are two very different kinds of involvement. Imagine the Russian freakout if NATO actually sent soldiers to fight in Ukraine. Maybe the North Koreans will actually speed that process up.

Duke_Nukem_1990 ,

Go home vatnik

Bremmy ,

Of course you don’t see the problem. You can’t seem to see the problem with a lot of issues. Your average post score is -20. Maybe you should do some self reflection, or maybe you’re just a naive 20-something and will grow out of it

nondescripthandle ,

We’re getting a lot closer to a bigger global conflict as NK troops and American Military contractors begin to enter the fray. Anyone else feel like were inching closer to World War than we’ve been since the last one ended?

mecfs ,

We’ve been inching closer and closer ever since 2014. Is not an excuse to abandon Ukraine though. Russia won’t stop cause we give them some land.

catloaf ,

Appeasement didn’t stop Hitler in the 30s and 40s. It won’t stop Putin now. It never works.

nondescripthandle ,

There’s a literal world of space between appeasing Putin and putting foreign soldiers on the battlefield. It’s not an either or.

KevonLooney ,

This isn’t going to do anything. First of all, North Korea is probably not going to send battle ready soldiers to a foreign country. There’s really no reason for it. They might send ditch diggers for trenches.

Second of all, this isn’t going to move the needle on the battlefield. Russia already has more troops than Ukraine. They need more and better arms and ammunition, plus better support, training, airplanes, missiles, drones, commanders, etc. Basically Russia needs a completely different military.

nondescripthandle ,

I don’t think what the soldiers end up doing makes it less international of a conflict. The point was there’s going to be sizesble amounts of foreign boots on the groun on both sides. That necessarily increases the international scope of the conflict beyond funding a proxy war.

intensely_human ,

WW3 started two years ago

givesomefucks ,

I hope everyone that keeps down voting me for talking about WW3 are right…

But man, it really is starting to look like WW3

Reverendender ,

To me, it does not seem wise to just let these two continue along this path, but I am certain there are numerous internet experts out there who can explain to me why we should not intervene.

givesomefucks ,

You mean Russia and NK?

Or you meant the two countries in the middle of illegal invasions: Russia and Israel?

dactylotheca ,
@dactylotheca@suppo.fi avatar

Fuck Israel, but that being said what the hell does Israel have to do with anything here?

givesomefucks ,

Israel and Hezbollah have been exchanging rocket fire, and Israel is talking about a ground invasion.

Hezbollah has a defense treaty with Iran, Iraq, Russia, and another ME country I’m blanking on.

If Israel invaded Lebanon in an attack on Hezbollah, that draws in Russia, and likely NK.

Israel and Russia are the two countries invading others that I believe are the primary drivers towards WW3. NK is just a long for the ride until/unless they launch an attack on SK.

But I think before that happens, we’ll solidly be in WW3. I think NK is onboard now, with the promise to be backed against SK later. No one is attack NK unless NK starts some shit, they don’t need a defense treaty.

Socsa ,

Israel would solo Russia ggez.

ironhydroxide ,

How would you propose the intervention happen? Sit Kim down and say “bad boy, stop it”?

What can “the west” really do to prevent or stop troops from NK being sent to the Ukraine front?

Russia isn’t going to stop them from crossing their border.

btaf45 ,

What can “the west” really do to prevent or stop troops from NK being sent to the Ukraine front?

Drop leaflets on them inviting them to surrender and upgrade their lives to South Korean national.

ironhydroxide ,

To be honest that’s likely the most effective. Though not very effective compared to threats against family.

ssj2marx ,

upgrade their lives to South Korean national

Considering that North Korean defectors are a heavily discriminated against minority in South Korea, this is unlikely to be an attractive offer.

btaf45 ,

Considering that North Korea is literally the worse country in the world to live it, this is super likely to be an attractive offer.

ssj2marx ,

the worse country in the world to live it

worst* in*

And I dunno about that. North Korea’s average soldier age isn’t forty-five.

btaf45 ,

Nobody’s average soldier age is 45. Has nothing to do NK being rock bottom in country rankings. And the younger you are in NK, the more you are probably screwed.

ssj2marx ,

The average age of Ukrainian soldiers fighting Russia is 43-45. Ukraine is almost certainly the worst developed country to live in right now.

Plus, North Korea may be poor by western standards, but they have a lot of comforts that many third world countries lack, so even if you discount my example they’re still not the worst by a wide margin.

btaf45 ,

So like Poland was the worst country in Europe to live in at the start of WW2. Not because Poland was bad but because Germany and Russia were bad and would both soon be just as bad to live in as Poland.

ssj2marx ,

What can “the west” really do to prevent or stop troops from NK being sent to the Ukraine front?

Stop sabotaging peace talks, pressure Ukraine to accept the terms as they exist now before they get worse, lift the sanctions on North Korea in order to incentivize them to integrate with the rest of the world, withdraw US military equipment from South Korea. Kim Jong Un is often presented in American news like a crazy person, but truthfully he (and the rest of the actors in the North Korean state) is a rational actor and the “hermit kingdom” is not an aspirational goal of the DPRK but a state of affairs that has been forced upon them by decades of sanctions and isolation - give them a reason to be neutral, and assurances that they won’t be stabbed in the back (as they have been in previous deals with Western countries), and there’s a good chance they’ll take it.

ironhydroxide ,

Hmmm. While that would technically stop Russia from needing the troops in Ukraine, I don’t think that just giving a dictator sections of land because he claimed them is a good path.

“Just give up when I take your shit” is a shit take.

ssj2marx ,

Ukraine had an opportunity to keep the Donbas by implementing the Minsk Agreements. Zelensky literally ran on the promise of ending the war and implementing the agreements. This path was not chosen by Russia, it was chosen by the Ukrainians, who refused to reconcile with their Russian-speaking minority groups. With every passing day, the deal will only get worse for the Ukrainians, and the sooner they accept the better the deal they will get.

But instead America and Europe are ready to do whatever it takes to throw every single Ukrainian body directly into Russian (and North Korean) artillery.

BobGnarley ,

“They could have not gotten invaded if they just gave up their rights to protect themselves!”

Carrolade ,

To me it looks like N Korea wanting to acquire some direct combat experience to continue to develop their skills and capabilities.

But yes, personally I was not expecting this.

jaybone ,

Skill acquired: cannon fodder

pennomi ,

People forgot how long it took the other world wars to really get rolling. (Presumably because they weren’t alive when it happened.)

I’m also of the opinion that unless something happens to de-escalate this conflict it will inevitably draw Europe, the US, and China in.

sunzu ,

Everybody is already in and picked the side...

We just waiting for the other shoe to drop... Is US Marines landing in Crimea or other wild scenario where everyone goes: " well damn and that's how it turned into ww3"

Warl0k3 ,

The Somme, part two: Rasputitsa

bluGill ,

We are also hoping it doesn't turn into WWIII. It could for sure, but there is the possibility that things can calm down in a few years.

Matriks404 ,

I hope it won’t. Afterall I have CK3 campaign to finish.

givesomefucks ,

They also forget about the 4+1 treaty.

If Israel expands to other countries, it would draw Russia in on their side, and the US on Israel’s

Which now also brings NK in. And we’ve got a multi front multi country war with two distinct fronts.

People might not call it WW3, but there’s a world war coming straight ahead, and as good of a movie as it was, I dont want to recreate the Titanic

deranger ,

It didn’t take long at all for WW1 to get rolling.

June 28, 1914 Archduke Francis Ferdinand is assassinated.

July 28, 1914 Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia, beginning World War I

WW1 has an insane pace compared to WW2. Battles where a single day has casualty numbers that compare to an entire month past D-day.

DarkCloud , (edited )

Not really, proxy wars have been fought with multiple nations before.

… practically everyone was in Syria… Russia, Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Armenia, Qatar, The USA, ISIS, Al-queda, and Syrian forces.

pennomi ,

Not exactly a proxy war when Russian troops are personally in Ukraine. That’s just a war.

Mechanize ,

Russia is actively in Syria from the end of 2015 as an official belligerent, it’s not something new for Russia to fight directly while others use only proxies.

But I can see your point; still - officially - this is only a three days military operation. When that stance will finally change in the official channels, it will mean they can’t hold the mask anymore.

Skua ,

The Korean War had over a million NATO troops and also tens of thousands of Soviet troops and, somehow, remained a proxy war. A particularly bloody one, but there was still no actual open full-scale warfare between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Even China and America remained officially at peace, despite making up the majority of the forces on each side

sunbeam60 ,

The Korean War was led by the UN. NATO wasn’t involved.

Skua ,

Apologies, I was using "NATO troops" as a shorthand for the large number of countries involved rather than the specific command structure. You are right to bring that up

DarkCloud ,

It’s a proxy war because the two major powers are fighting in an area neither of them own.

Iraq was a proxy war, even though US troops were there.

pennomi ,

I’d say not since Russia is trying to directly annex those portions of Ukraine. How is that a proxy?

theacharnian ,
@theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

How was Iraq a proxy war?

DarkCloud ,

Because Russia was funding one side, ask George Bush senior.

intensely_human ,

It’s not a proxy war between Russia and the US. It’s a proxy war between China and the US.

Russia and Ukraine are the pawns

Chainweasel ,

They didn’t start calling WWII what it is until 1944, but I think we can all agree it didn’t start in 1944.
Just like later historians placed the start of WWII on multiple different events depending on which country you’re in, the start of World War III will be long before we start calling it that.
I’m in the camp that the start of WW3 will be the Russian invasion of Ukraine if things continue to escalate the way they’re going, because that’s when you really started seeing lines being drawn between the axis and allies.
Russia, China, Iran, and NK are the most recognizable names that have aligned themselves with the axis so far.
The lines are already drawn and future events will dictate whether or not we’re currently living in WW3 today.

Brunbrun6766 ,
@Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world avatar

And some would argue that WW1 was WW2 and WW2 WAS WW3. The 7 years war/French and Indian (not French vs Indian) war are commonly referred to as the real first world war. And then the Nepoleonic wars are similarly thought of by some to have been a world war of sorts

bluGill ,

WWI was called the great war, and the war to end all wars until WWII broke out. I sometimes call WWII just the great war part 2 - the treaties that "ended" WWI were clearly setup (on hindsight!) to make the war break out again in the future when Germany got sick of those treaties.

The point is names are added after the fact and often don't make a lot of sense if you know details.

Brunbrun6766 ,
@Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world avatar

For sure, I know allll about that stuff (former history teacher)

Kyrgizion ,

“This is not a peace. It is an armistice for twenty years!”

Ferdinand Foch, 1921

deranger ,

He was right for the wrong reasons. He believed the treaty was too lenient, when in retrospect it seems pretty clear that the punitive nature of the treaty was a significant factor in Hitler rising to power and then WW2 starting.

raspberriesareyummy ,

Also, the winners will interprete who gets to be the axis and who gets to be the allies in history books…

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

Pretty sure Iran adopted “Axis of Resistance” already. Least they already know what side they are on.

Really getting sick of people deciding to just like…starting shit instead of focusing on constructive competitions like science or space races to other planets. Why do people feel the need to kill the shit out of each other and subjugate their population whilst climate change is bearing down on us? :p

raspberriesareyummy ,

I am also sick to the core about this aspect of humanity. I feel that we as a species are just about developed enough to understand how a better world would look like, and how people should act, what’s “the right thing to do” - and very much not developed enough to overcome our egoism and narcissism to make it happen, so we do the wrong thing despite knowing better far too often.

bluGill ,

For most of history you would be better off if you could kill the next village over. You want to be friends with the people in your village, but if you kill the next one you can expand your farm/hunting/gathering grounds and then leave it to your kids - while otherwise you won't have enough food for all the kids and your DNA is in danger of not getting passed on.

In our modern world we mostly have plenty of food (and when we don't lack of land is not the issue), but that isn't what our DNA is evolved to "think"

raspberriesareyummy ,

For most of history you would be better off if you could kill the next village over.

That is an incredibly stupid take. For most of history, the planet was so vast that people had plenty of room to hunt / farm / whatever. And no, killing other humans is not in our DNA, the only people who feel like that are those with brain damage / development defects.

bluGill ,

Most of the planet was not accessable. It was there but your local population grew until the land couldn't support more. There wasn't much opportunity to move as the surronding villages had the same problem.

of course when a famon came you got a few generations of peace here and there

Gigasser ,

I’m wondering what Kim gets from this though?

skulblaka ,
@skulblaka@sh.itjust.works avatar

I honestly think he might legitimately believe that a couple platoons of NK soldiers will clear this whole mess right up and then the world will have to take them seriously.

The North Korean leadership is not exactly well known for their excellent grasp of reality.

Gigasser ,

My thought is maybe either food or arms or research for arms production/nukes from the Russians.

Edit Addendum: the article says as much actually lol. This is what I get for just trying to get an idea of NK actions from the title.

echodot ,

It never leads anywhere though. North Korea has always been fobbed off with decades-old technology,it’s not like they will know.

So everyone continues to ignore them because they continue not to be a threat. It’s not in Russia’s interest to give them anything really advanced, assuming they have anything left to give them. The best thing Russia could give them would be infrastructure engineers but they’re probably not interested in their own populace enough to consider that a worthy exchange.

btaf45 ,

But man, it really is starting to look like WW3

It looks more like Crimean War II to me.

echodot ,

Pretty asymmetric that isn’t it. On one side you have a nation that is rapidly running out of, well basically everything, and on the other side you’ve got an alliance of nation states which contain among many other things the largest most powerful military on the planet.

Finally the nation that is running out of resources is now getting military support from quite possibly the worst place they could get it from.

It’s going to be one of those ridiculous situations that only happens in Civilization, where you’re bombing cavemen with nukes because your adversary has failed to advance through the tech tree fast enough.

bluGill ,

Unfortunately China is not running out of everything and they are looking like they might back Russia here. Iran is also backing Russia and not to be underestimated.

Matriks404 ,

The truth is, we don’t fucking know. No expert would tell you that Russia is ready to invade Ukraine, and here we go.

bluGill ,

Be careful here. Experts would tell you that Russia was going to invade Ukraine. However as you say Russia wasn't ready for it.

someacnt_ ,

I wasn’t even an expert but I knew they would do that just by distribution of military. Did not expect Civ 5 to be accurate, tho

intensely_human ,

I’m not an expert either and I could have predicted the invasion based on:

  • huge buildup of troops in preparation for invasion
  • 8 years prior they had invaded after saying they wouldn’t
Vilian ,

a yes, one country against the entire world, truly the ww3 of all times, we downvote your take is stupid

UltraGiGaGigantic ,

In response to that Pyongyang announced early this week that it will be sending troops in the form of a military engineering unit to support Russian forces on the ground in the Donetsk region. The troops are expected to arrive on the battlefield as soon as next month.

One engineering unit isn’t much, but perhaps there is more to come. It didn’t say anything in the article about future commitments.

Ilya Ponomarev, a former Russian member of parliament told the UK’s Daily Express that North Korea has become an important bridge between the Kremlin and China. Beijing can indirectly transfer military equipment to Moscow through Pyongyang without falling foul of Western sanctions.

As he explained: “North Korea is one of key Russian partners and the meaning of the rationale behind them becoming such a partner is because they are acting as a bridge between China and Russia.

“Essentially all the military equipment that is delivered from North Korea was developed for the North Koreans by the Chinese.

Perhaps this is less about North Korea then it appears on the surface. I wonder what Russia is giving China for this help?

Eww ,

Curious how many will defect once outside North Korea.

EatATaco ,

According to hexbear you would have to have some deranged lib mind to believe any would want to.

Eww ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/83f6d108-1378-45eb-b587-f04cc17deef2.jpeg

sunbeam60 ,

Server blocking hexbear is the only way to stay sane on Lemmy.

sparky ,
@sparky@lemmy.federate.cc avatar

We defederated them a while ago over here. Along with some right wing instances too. The extremists from either side of the political spectrum really spoil the experience.

n3m37h ,

Look @ the tankie!

/s

sunbeam60 ,

Maybe on account of the communities I subscribe to, but I’ve personally not come across right wing extremism on Lemmy. The tankies, though … so prevalent. Anyways, by server blocking hexbear it’s reduced by 90%.

barsquid ,

They sure do love authoritarianism more than they like leftism.

ssj2marx , (edited )

Most of the ones that do end up regretting it /shrug

This is wrong - it’s not that they end up regretting it so much as most of them never want to go to South Korea in the first place.

EatATaco ,

I’m sure you’ll be able to provide me with a sound study confirming this.

absentbird ,
@absentbird@lemm.ee avatar

About 18% of North Korean defectors regret it.

The number one reason is wanting to see family and friends who are still trapped in North Korea.

ssj2marx ,

The 18% figure is a biased sample from an anti-DPRK NGO. More comprehensive research into North Korean defectors by Cho Cheon-hyeon for his book Defectors indicate that most North Korean defectors simply want to make money in China, with only about 40% of defectors wanting to go to South Korea.

So I did misremember, but my point still stands on the fact that most of them don’t want to defect to South Korea, even before taking into account that even at their 2009 peak defectors were a tiny fraction of a percent of North Korea’s population and the existence of them in no way implicates all of North Korean society in secretly wanting to escape.

absentbird ,
@absentbird@lemm.ee avatar

If so few people want to leave, why are so many resources directed into preventing people from leaving? I can’t think of any other country that works so hard to keep their citizens from escaping. Usually the largest barrier to leaving a country is the policies of the country you’re entering.

blackn1ght ,

The fact they’re called defectors says it all. Anywhere else they’d be called emigrants.

blackn1ght ,

That last statement is meaningless given the crazy levels of security they have on keeping people in. If they took away all the restrictions on leaving then the numbers would go through the roof.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

About 18% of North Korean defectors regret it.

Around 20% of defectors have considered returning to North Korea. But that has less to do with the appeal of the North than the poor treatment of expats in the South.

The South Korean immigration and labor laws make finding work south of the border incredibly difficult. North Korean expats are confined to menial service sector and grueling industrial work while being largely cut out of South Korean social life due to heavy stigmas against them. Its an incredibly hard life and not remotely like the glamorous existence of social elites that Americans claim drive the periodic defections.

intensely_human ,

They need access to a better place. I suppose they just get financially stuck in S Korea? Or do the move on to other countries too, more willing to give them a chance?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

North Korean expats are functionally stateless, so it is very difficult to leave South Korea even when they do have money.

The largest portion of the Korean diaspora live in China and Russia.

explore_broaden ,

Why don’t we have a law for North Korea like the Cuban Adjustment Act that allows anyone who makes it out of the country to quickly become a permanent resident, without regard for how they got out of their country. The situation seems fairly similar, where encouraging more defectors makes the target country look bad, and it can deprive them of workers.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Because South Koreans don’t have ambitions of building up a large militant ex-pat community to try a Bay of Pigs on Pyongyang.

someacnt_ ,

Who’s ‘we’ here?

explore_broaden ,

I suppose the US, but it would probably have to involve us paying for moving them to the US from South Korea. Otherwise South Korea could have such a program so that they can become residents with actual rights (or maybe they already do).

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

NKers are simultaneously brainwashed morons who follow their leader with fanatical delusion and utterly naive children who can be lured to defection by a few pieces of candy and a charming smile.

The hexbears are too stupid to realize that all Koreans yearn for the unlimited freedom of their Southern neighbors and yet too wicked to believe the unvarnished truths of such media luminaries as Yeomni Park. They should all be sent to North Korea to eat grass and toil in the mines and get beaten to a pulp by Kim’s totalitarian police, then repatriated so that they can apologize for their ignorant beliefs.

barsquid ,

Those children are completely delusional. I saw a thread about why the entire country is unlit at night which was a parody of itself. I wonder what their demographics are, if not 100% bots.

BobGnarley ,

Surprisingly a lot of them on the Lemmy communities are also trans.

I’m not sure they’re aware how LGBT people are treated in those countries. Either that or just willful ignorance I guess

JohnEdwa ,

Very few, as North Korea hand picks everyone who gets to leave by essentially keeping their entire family hostage, and any “traitor family” will find them sentenced to life in prison/labour camp - including any children born in those camps.

And they are places you wouldn’t wish for anyone to end up in, especially your loved ones.

UltraGiGaGigantic ,

You haven’t met my family.

DontMakeMoreBabies ,

We’ll get to see US weapons killing North Koreans AND Russians? Is this Christmas?

kaffiene ,

That’s gross.

2ncs ,

You realize these are real people, war is so sad and you are comparing it to Christmas :(

vaultdweller013 ,

We aint the ones sending them to their deaths, its a waste of human life but one we cant do jackshit about without escalating which most folks dont want. So that leaves us with only a handful of options all with the same end result, fuck all. Id rather laugh than feel sick to the stomach with rage.

Fidel_Cashflow ,
@Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml avatar

Psst, your mask is slipping

Hunter_for_hunteR ,

Hahah same with my cum all over the flying squid daughter’ ass

Maggoty ,

Who let NonCredibleDefense out of their cage? Goddamnit now we need a clean up crew.

UncleBilly ,

Sometime back kim was crying so that women make more babies, now he is sending men to his friend. And we know the mortality rate of North Korea. I have never seen a country run out of people, I think I will see it soon

bamfic ,

Pyongangbang

wabafee ,
@wabafee@lemmy.world avatar

Ain’t this a good thing the more fudder sent to the front lines the high chance NK will have less capable soldiers in their country. Unless people being sent to front lines were potential issues in NK. I bet US intelligence would be interested on seeing how NK soldiers operates in actual combat.

snailfact ,

can we get 1 like for the brave soldiers

egeres ,
@egeres@lemmy.world avatar

Does north korea have actually good military power? I’ve seen their parades here and there, but does anyone know if they have updated equipment, trained military personnel, good intelligence, etc?

Aux ,

Military is the only thing they have. It might not be the most modern, but they have more artilery shells than any other country. Other stockpiles are huge AF as well. Almost 4% of their population are in active military service and 2% more are reservists. In terms of head count, they have almost as many active personel as Russia while having a fraction of population. Plenty of disposable meat!

Woht24 ,

It’s all smoke and mirrors, the majority of their stockpiles would be bordering on defunct. Modern equipment they have is far and few between, their training is subpar.

Plenty of disposable meat is certainly correct though!

TankovayaDiviziya ,

You may be right. We just saw how Russia performed in the war in Ukraine despite the prior years of flexing lol. It’s not impossible to believe that the North Korean military is the same.

Shard ,

Agreed that they have a pretty big military in terms of raw numbers. I’m not going to discuss quality because the biggest question mark here is force projection.

How are they planning on sending over any significant manpower and supplies across 2800km?

They don’t even have a navy capable of circumnavigating the korean peninsula, much less make the trip to Ukraine or the wrong side of Russia.

They have 2 transport aircraft, the bigger of the 2 has a max passenger capacity of 44 pax. Neither of those have the range to get near Ukraine when flying fully fueled, nevermind if it were fully loaded.

ammonium , (edited )

How are they planning on sending over any significant manpower and supplies across 2800km?

Rail? They border Russia and there’s a railroad over the border

egeres , (edited )
@egeres@lemmy.world avatar

I didn’t know this, damn, that’s moving a lot of troops across a length of ~8.000 km in rail

olafurp ,

Kim Jong Un has a pretty cool train also to use the rail

bluewing ,

There is rail and I’m pretty sure Russia still has plenty of cargo/transport planes that would be capable.

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Lmao

olafurp ,

They have massive amount of soldiers and are good and making artillery and missiles. It is a big black box however since they haven’t been engaged in a conflict recently so all their troops lack experience.

Their economy is practically built for conflict so it shouldn’t be taken lightly.

egeres ,
@egeres@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, I don’t think numbers is everything, lacking experience or leadership can tip the balance against you in a blink

olafurp ,

Yeah, I have a feeling that they will have very low morale because of lack of motivating factors. Desertion might also become a massive problem since this is one of the few ways to get out of the DPRK.

phoenixz ,

Few will desert as their families back home will pay the price for that.

SuspiciousCatThing ,

True, but we’ve already seen from Russia what sheer numbers can do, even under-equipped and untrained.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

It is a big black box however since they haven’t been engaged in a conflict recently so all their troops lack experience.

They’ve been deployed to Syria since at least 2019 and assisted Hezbollah in its tunnel networks going back decades.

Happywop ,

So did I hear that the US is considering letting “contractors” take Ukrainian contracts? Blackrock would ruin these morons!

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

So did I hear that the US is considering letting “contractors” take Ukrainian contracts?

The US has been sending “advisers” into Ukraine since the war began. And we’ve had intelligence officers in this country for decades.

Blackrock would ruin these morons!

Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe; for they are disunited, ambitious, and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies; they have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy. The fact is, they have no other attraction or reason for keeping the field than a trifle of stipend, which is not sufficient to make them willing to die for you.

chumbalumber ,

Someone read the prince :P

Maggoty ,

Fuck mercenaries. Time for some good old sheep dipping.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Not a single one of those support troops has any combat experience.

So good luck, guys.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

North Korea has had surprisingly close ties with various African states going back to the Cold War and NK mercenaries have served in Syria, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Zanzibar, and South Africa in the relatively recent past.

NKers also have an active role in state-sanctioned smuggling and piracy. I think you’d be surprised how much combat experience they’ve accrued.

Jimmyeatsausage ,

And they’ll still be the most experienced combat troops Putin can field. At least they get lots of practice marching up and down the square.

homesweethomeMrL ,

Not to worry! Li’l Kim’s Bestest Buddy and Honorary Number One Chief Saluter will be ready to help NK help Russia destroy Ukraine and NATO.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/28ef1c99-c671-4002-82f0-66ed9972c697.jpeg

All you MAGA service “losers” and “suckers” got quite the cognitive dissonance jam rockin’ huh.

Huckledebuck ,

That military man looked really important. Even a king would salute.

homesweethomeMrL ,

To be fair, the orange rapist found some good speed on that trip

Kbobabob ,

To be fair, the orange convicted felon and rapist found some good speed on that trip

ssj2marx ,

I hate this dunk because it’s clearly shown in the original video that the DPRK officer saluted Trump first. The president salutes like fifty Marines every single day, it’s not strange for him to reflexively salute someone else without thinking about it.

nilloc ,

Probably best not to be running on autopilot around North Fucking Koreans though.

ssj2marx ,

It was a diplomatic meeting, what were they gonna do? Kidnap the president of the united states?

tootoughtoremember ,

50 US Marines, of which he is their Commander in Chief.

North Korea has been an American rival since 1950. Imagine if any other President had done this.

But you don’t even have to, just look at the response to Obama bowing to the emperor of Japan, an ally.

ssj2marx ,

My point is that if you see people salute you and you salute them back, do it enough times and it will become a reflex. The response to Obama bowing to someone in a culture where bowing is totally normal was equally stupid, but it was conservatives doing it instead of liberals.

Etterra ,

They’ll doublethink their way out of it somehow.

Linkerbaan , (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Biden broke all ties with North Korea after Trump. Reverting to the old demand to denuclearize before for any negotiations and imposing more sanctions.

As we have learned from Ukraine. no sane country should ever give up their nukes because they become a prime target for invasion. If Ukraine still had nukes Russia would never have invaded.

Biden has also imposed sanctions on NK which were undone by Trump

Now I’m not a an NK fan but I’m not sure why people think pushing NK away would make them more friendly. Unlike the past where American sanctions spelled doom and America could bend any country to their will, China and Russia are now picking up the countries America pushes away.

zalgotext ,

China and Russia are now picking up the countries America pushes away.

Pretty sure North Korea has been allied with China and Russia for way longer than the US has been “pushing them away”.

Linkerbaan , (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Well yes because America had been pushing North Korea away.

Trump tried to lay contact with NK. He might not have had pure motives for it. He usually doesn’t. But the action itself is not the problem.

Biden hitting NK with the “new number who dis” right after becoming president certainly doesn’t make them trust us more. And thus they have been pushed further into the arms of Russia.

The classic American imperialists refuse to accept that by sanctioning a country into oblivion they will now just join China and Russia’s side. They have alternative options.

Most Americans don’t even know why North Korea is so hostile. We bombed them into oblivion during the Korean war.

tootoughtoremember ,

Well yes because America had been pushing North Korea away.

The classic American imperialists refuse to accept that by sanctioning a country into oblivion they will now just join China and Russia’s side.

Most Americans don’t even know why North Korea is so hostile. We bombed them into oblivion during the Korean war.

What the fuck is this revisionist history?

North Korea invaded South Korea in 1950, after the South refused Northern rule. The UN stepped in (90% American forces) pushing the North Koreans nearly to China’s borders, at which point China entered the war, and resulting in the 38th parallel armistice border we have today.

North Korea wasn’t pushed into China’s welcoming arms due to American anti-nuclear proliferation sanctions of the last twenty years, and “being bombed into oblivion” is often the result of picking on countries with bigger allies than you, just ask Germany and Japan.

China has propped up the Kim dictatorship dynasty for the last 70 years, feeding their starving masses while the Kims focus the country’s resources on military spending, including nuclear development to substantiate their annual saber rattling. Allowing China to maintain a buffer state, that’s kept the West at bay since 1951.

deranger ,

NK & SK were making historical progress towards reunification until Kim and Trump met. Look at the pics from the summit and the timeline of inter Korean relations and it’s clear as day. He’s the reason relations went downhill.

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