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Zelenskyy thanks US after House passes aid bill

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and other European leaders have applauded the US for passing a vital €89 billion aid bill which has been struggling to make it through the House of Representatives for months.

The House swiftly https://www.euronews.com/2024/04/20/us-set-to-vote-for-foreign-aid-for-ukraine-israel-and-taiwan#:~:text=The%20large%20aid%20package%20for,Ake%2FCopyright%202022%20The%20AP. roughly €89 billion in foreign aid for Ukraine, Israel and other US allies in a rare Saturday session as Democrats and Republicans banded together after months of hard-right resistance over renewed American support for repelling Russia’s invasion.

With an overwhelming vote, €57 billion in aid for Ukraine passed in a matter of minutes, a strong showing as American lawmakers race to deliver a fresh round of US support to the war-torn ally. Many Democrats cheered on the House floor and waved blue-and-yellow flags of Ukraine.

Fidel_Cashflow ,
@Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml avatar

Hey, no problem Big Z, I didn’t need healthcare, schools, or infrastructure anyways :)

DragonTypeWyvern ,

1: Unlike some nations, we can do both if we want to.

2: They weren’t going to do those regardless, because our oligarchy doesn’t want to.

Fidel_Cashflow ,
@Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml avatar

Damn, the united states sucks lmao

DragonTypeWyvern ,

🦜🇱🇷

Anaphylactic_Gock ,

We have the freedom to to go into financial destitution from medical bills then die hungry, and untreated in the street. USA USA

anticolonialist ,

Now he can afford the higher quality coke again

FiniteBanjo ,

Mister Coke-Connoisseur, I have to inform you that he actually fights to defend his people. He doesn’t sit around in Moscow taking phone calls for updates about an unjust invasion like that fuckwit Putin.

anticolonialist ,

While making speeches glassy eyed and coked up

PlantDadManGuy ,

As an anticolonialist, shouldn’t you oppose Russian attempts to colonize Ukraine?

drathvedro ,

As if Ukraine was at some point NOT a colony of Russia…

Honytawk ,

Hasn’t been since July 16, 1990 when Ukraine became independent by democratic vote of 355 in favour and 4 against.

drathvedro ,

This implies that Belarus is also not a colony of Russia. Do better.

PlantDadManGuy ,

Belarus is not a colony of Russia. It’s an independent nation, and has been for the last 33 years. Read a history book before spouting nonsense you ruski bootlicker. history.state.gov/countries/belarus

drathvedro ,

Tell that to a million of Belarusians who were persecuted and exiled for opposing Russian puppet at the head of state.

history.state.gov

You must be fucking kidding me. How far up your ass your head is, if out of all sources you chose the US’s department of state?

frezik ,

No, silly, only America does colonialism /s.

anticolonialist ,

Who here is defending Russia?

btaf45 ,

Now Putin’s Evil Empire will be fucked.

3volver ,

He doesn’t need to thank us, he deserves our thanks for fighting against fascism. Some of the best money the US has ever spent. Now, redirect all money from Israel to Ukraine.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Well, it’s just being polite.

Demdaru ,

Exactly. And showing he doesn’t feel entitled to help, and actually appreciates it greatly.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Two western proxies, Israel and Ukraine, holding off two supermember states of the modern Axis of Evil/Group of Friends: Russia and Iran. Gaza and the West Bank are to Iran what Belarus and Crimea are to Russia, just further along; Russia already has a working nuclear weapons program and have parked nukes in Belarus and taken over reactors in Crimea. Nobody is going to let Iran get that far. Russia says they are fighting fascism, too. Why do you believe it when Iran says it but not Russia?

phoenixz ,

You do understand that Israel is the aggressor here? Yeab yeah, they had a huge terror attack. After 50 years of continued treating Palestinians like shit and randomly killing them whenever they want, stealing their land, and so on, they (foolishly) strike back and give Israel a bloody nose. Yes, on the personal level, it’s a huge tragedy, but on the level of a country, they got a fucking bloody nose. They then proceed to commit genocide, murder thousands of children… You’d think that of there is a single country that knows better, that it would be Israel, but alas, here we are.

Iran is basically being opportunistic here, bit also just responded to Israel bombing it’s embassy. All Ayers here are dirty as shit but You CAN’T claim Israel is even remotely a hero in any of this. Israelites are just happily stealing more land.

JustZ , (edited )
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Nah I don’t see it that way at all. Gaza’s political and community leaders put their kids in harm’s way and and then celebrate their deaths as “martyrs,” which is just coded speech for “human shields used by fanatical warlords to increase the human price of Israel’s strikes against Hamas members and the hundreds of miles of tunnels they built under neighborhoods and schools.” Lying about it to everyone and coming to the international community with crocodile tears is the only weapon for Hamas and it’s many pan-Islamist ideological allies, other than straight up hostage-taking, indiscriminate rocket attacks, mass shootings, and suicide bombings.

Hamas would scuttle the tunnels and surrender if they had any concern about human lives in Gaza, other than their own. Maybe Gaza could have elections and international ports of entry again, bring in all the food and medicine they want, you know, if they had a legitimate legal system and government, if they ever even one single time treat a war criminal as a criminal instead of as a hero, maybe they could develop an economy based on something other than spending everything on weapons to kill Jews while the entire population is malnourished and living philanthrope-to-philanthrope.

Don’t need to think Israel is the heroes to understand, as a country, it has redeeming qualities.

I_Fart_Glitter ,

Last time Palestine held an election the elected officials were in favor of maintaining peace with Israel. Then the Israeli government came in and kidnapped or killed the elected officials. They were replaced with unelected, not pro peace officials, and here we are, no more elections, no more peace.

phoenixz ,

Seriously, even if Israel wasn’t evil, it could still quite easily do whatever it’s doing by itself. Even if it wasn’t evil, it doesn’t need help doing what it does.

Yet here we are.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

he deserves our thanks for fighting against fascism

Its 1980 again and my man is the Saddam Hussein of the 21st Century.

Moneo ,

0/10

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2e60959b-0871-4043-be23-c47bbceee13c.jpeg

nyctre ,

Rofl… Are you at least paid for this shit? Cause if not… Imagine being so fucking dumb that you actually believe that shit and on top of that, instead of preaching somewhere where you’ve got a chance, you stay on Lemmy. It’s so fucking sad, man… can’t you see it? You’re trying to sell meat to a bunch of vegans, it’s hilarious.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Imagine being so fucking dumb that you actually believe that shit

So stupid you’re familiar with US history prior to 1991?

If you think the Saddam story is unbelievable, wait till you learn about Noriega.

It’s so fucking sad, man… can’t you see it?

Why do folks who want to sound incredulous just sound like they’re high as fuck?

jaemo ,

Why do folks who want to sound incredulous just sound like they’re high as fuck?

That’d be your inner narrative embellishing fucking reality with filigree and lace to fit your shit-ass perspective.

Jim Jefferies said it best: “That’s the problem with crazy people; they don’t know they’re crazy”. Way to illustrate his insightful point by telling us you hear our voices in your head, dumbass.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

That’d be your inner narrative

Sure thing, Cheech.

nahuse ,

You’re correct about the missteps of US foreign policy.

But your argument is a nonstarter because the people you’re talking about were literal dictators in authoritarian systems.

Ukraine is literally fighting to engage with the liberal West, over authoritarian East, against a foreign aggressor. And it’s done a very good job of keeping and even improving its democratic institutions through this war (I’m referring more to transparency of laws and changes to how corruption is dealt with, specifically).

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

the people you’re talking about were literal dictators in authoritarian systems

We’re heading dick first into the meat grinder of another Trump administration. And that’s nationally. Nevermind all the tinpot governors we’ve got running around the Gulf Coast and Midwest. What do you think happens when they’re back in charge of the national military again?

That’s before we get into the finer points of “authoritarianism” when you’re funding a proxy war overseas by rubber stamping a government takeover of a social media company at home.

Ukraine is literally fighting to engage with the liberal West, over authoritarian East, against a foreign aggressor. And it’s done a very good job of keeping and even improving its democratic institutions through this war

They’re in a turf war over the Donbas. But the deadline for elections in the Ukraine was constitutionally mandated for March 31st of 2024. We’re three weeks past that with no plans for a vote in sight. I would say Ukraine is officially off the board as a “liberal democracy”, at least as long as martial law lasts. And with the new arms shipment looking to close off the possibility of a ceasefire, that suggests elections are postponed indefinitely.

nahuse ,

Ah, so you’re just not inclined to see reason, and toss in a little bit of whataboutism with your replies that minimalize a full scale invasion of a sovereign country as a “turf war.”

It’s my mistake for engaging with an obviously disingenuous poster. You can go fuck yourself.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

you’re just not inclined to see reason

If you think its reasonable to amp up the war machine and then hand it over to Cheeto Mussolini, I guess we’re working with different definitions of the phrase.

You can go fuck yourself.

My man, try touching some grass. You’re way to invested with this thread.

nyctre ,

“My man, try touching some grass. You’re way to invested with this thread.”

Says the “person” with at least 15 replies in this thread… See, I may sound high, but at least I can admit when I’m wrong or crazy… You can’t even see how sad you are anymore.

btaf45 ,

If you think the Saddam story is unbelievable, wait till you learn about Noriega.

Yes we are all well aware that Republicans have a long history of appeasing dictators. Same as now.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Republicans have a long history of appeasing dictators

Not just Republicans…

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/73df5e4f-8d71-460c-b35e-785dd76ee58d.webp

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/643e05ec-31f3-4c81-93bb-9382edb2e3da.webp

The flood of weapons going into Israel, Ukraine, and Taiwan is going to fuel the same kinds of conflicts that arms sold to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and Jordan fueled 40 years ago.

When the building conflict between Poland and Ukraine goes hot…

When some of the enormous third-party arms market ramped up in these countries spills into neighboring Egypt and Turkey…

When someone with a MANPADS and nefarious intent gets within striking distance of a civilian airport…

Shit is going to pop off in a way folks just watching TV and clapping for their favorite team simply aren’t prepared for.

btaf45 ,

I see a Republican shaking hands with a dictator. Exactly like the Butcher Putin appeasers now.

…nyt.com/…/24ukraine-briefing-Russianprotestssub-…

beardown ,

They posted a picture of Obama and Clinton. They aren’t Republicans

frezik ,

Next, you’ll misinterpret 1984 to describe this as a “we were always at war with Oceania” moment".

btaf45 ,

Its 1980 again and my man is the Saddam Hussein of the 21st Century.

Yes we know Butcher Putin is your man. And yes he is a lot like that other tyrant dictator.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Yes we know Butcher Putin is your man.

Me and my close friend, Vladdy Daddy.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/643e05ec-31f3-4c81-93bb-9382edb2e3da.webp

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Sigh, the simpler times of 2012, the neoliberals really thought they’d won that one, that Russia would stop simping for dictators, start drinking democracy juice, and focus on exploiting labor instead of conquering it.

Honytawk ,

Lol, couldn’t even find a picture where they smiled or even looked at one another.

Ultragigagigantic ,
@Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world avatar

Any way to give Ukraine 2-4 years worth of stuff at a time?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Not at the rate they use it up. The Ukraine military budget has historically been measured in billions ($4-5B/annually going back to the end of the USSR). We’ve been giving them traunches of aid in the $50-100B range for the last three years. And that’s not including the logistical support we’ve provided out of the Pentagon’s baseline budget.

2-4 years of Ukraine aid at the current scale would be on the order of trillions of dollars. That’s what we’re spending to play tag in Bakhmut at the cost of hundreds of lives a month. Not even what it would cost to “win” back the Donbas (or what would be left of it) in its entirety. Never even mind Crimea.

CableMonster ,

What would be the end goal other than waste all of our money to get more people dead?

TacticsConsort ,
@TacticsConsort@yiffit.net avatar

Hot fucking damn, the russian bots are really out on parade in this comment section aren’t they?

…Welp, not like they can parade IRL, so I guess they’ve got to take what they can get!

Shame the TikTok ban went through, but a 60 billion package should give some fresh strength to the defenders of Ukraine.

ChunkMcHorkle , (edited )
@ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world avatar

deleted by creator

EdibleFriend , (edited )
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

Problem is you people suck ass at figuring out if you are talking to a bot or not. I have been called a bot several times, here and on reddit. My favorite was when I was talking shit about the MCU. Someone honestly believed there was a bot designed to say the MCU has gone to shit since endgame.

In the end I doubt there really is much of a ‘Russian bot’ presence on lemmy because…well…we are a itty bitty little insignificant corner of the internet.

edit- OH also one of my favorites, also MCU related. I remember this dude on reddit said he was positive wolverine would be in infninity war and when he got downvoted he blamed Disney bots.

Kedly ,

Or maybe being able to talk to whomever you please isnt a right, and some of us prioritize our mental health above talking to loud idiots. Theres a huge difference between not liking a marvel movie, and celebrating violence and genocide btw I have no idea how you made that leap. Anyways, if we end up blocking an idiot, whether or not they were a bot is a technical detail

edit: Also sorry Chunk, I know I never ended up responding to that last comment a few months ago, it ended up reaching a length of time that it felt too weird to respond anymore

EdibleFriend , (edited )
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

We are talking about bots tho. And I made the leap because I was bringing up the time I criticized the MCU too much and someone came along and said ‘this is clearly a bot do not engage.’

If you want to talk about blocking people about being horrible that’s different. But this was a discussion about how supposedly bots are astroturfing this weird little tiny corner of the internet and I was pointing out that people are more often than not wrong when they claim they found a bot by describing my personal experience.

Kedly ,

I guess thats fair. I guess personally I dont take the term Russian Bot too literally, as it also works as an insult that undermines anyone dumb enough to repeat russian talking points. So I read Tankie and Russian Bot interchangably

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

Eh understandable

anticolonialist ,

They call everything they disagree with a bot or a Russian. They have a child’s understanding of the world and believe everything the mommy and daddy politicians tells them

btaf45 ,

You’re the one who said something completely disconnected with reality dude lol.

Can you understand this?

…nyt.com/…/24ukraine-briefing-Russianprotestssub-…

roguetrick ,

I hate this calling idiots bots stuff. It’s like calling people NPCs. I think I’m getting old.

Big_Boss_77 ,

If you’re lucky, your are…

fuckingkangaroos ,

Kremlin propaganda is a huge problem and sticking your head in the sand isn’t helping.

roguetrick ,

You’ll have to clarify what you’re accusing me of here. Are you arguing that the people who support Russia’s invasion on this platform aren’t real people? That they’re not actually a combination of bootlickers and folks that actually believe any harm to American hegemony is a positive? Because there are a whole lot of the latter here because they’ve gotten banned from many other platforms, and not a great reason to spend the resources on the former.

fuckingkangaroos ,

I’m saying that your hand waving away the idea that there are bots on here is short-sighted and ignoring the problem is a terrible idea.

roguetrick ,

I’ll keep hand waving it unless you point to a real instance of a propaganda bot program on this laughably small slice of the Fediverse. A few comments are not fucking AI driven. The entire concept is ridiculous. Nobody’s building auto-reply bots to respond to many articles when we’ve only got a handful of people, like @MicroWave , who even bother to post the fucking articles.

Asafum ,

I fucking hate the NPC thing specifically. The bots is one thing, you may not actually know if it’s an honest person or a paid bot, but to call someone an NPC is just dehumanizing people.

You do all sorts of shit to an NPC in a video game you’d never do to a real person. I hate that it’s normalizing dehumanization.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

At some point, the “russian bots are really out on parade” comments are practically a Markov Chain response in their own right.

Honytawk ,

There would be less talk about them if there weren’t so many and Russia wasn’t known for botting propaganda every chance they get.

They are really obvious at this point.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Of all the automated posting tools circulating in the US, how many of them are Russian?

oatscoop , (edited )

Yeah, the majority of them aren’t “bots”. It’s mostly people acting as useful idiots, parroting talking points put forth by Kremlin backed trolls. The shit reeks of 2018’s totally organic “Walk Away” movement – the arguments and slogans practically rhyme.

I don’t like the “bots” thing either since it’s inaccurate to what’s actually going on, but at the same time I don’t know a concise way to call out pretty obvious Russian state backed AstroTurfing.

RunawayFixer ,

I think we really underestimate the amount of trolling that professional trolls do, I don’t think the amount of useful idiots online is that big. While the Russian IRA was knocked offline during the 2018 usa elections, I found that the discourse on reddit was radically different. Subreddits like walkaway or the Donald were suddenly absent from my front page and discussions seemed more civil.

A professional working a 9-5 job of making troll posts, who is using professional tools, who has scores of accounts and spreadsheets with prepared talking points that are based on data analysis, who is working to hit kpi, … That single professional is able to make a lot more posts and have a much bigger impact than a large group of geezers shitposting on their smartphones.

oatscoop ,

I agree that there’s a lot of direct trolling online, but I wouldn’t discount the number of “useful idiots”.

Remember Q-anon? The core of that entire “movement” was a handful of people on an obscure website steering discourse and pumping out conspiracy theories to a few hundred dedicated direct followers. That audience served as both a testbed for ideas and a free “localization service” – they’d take an unpolished core idea and through discourse transform it into something marketable for wider consumption. Said followers obscure the source of the messaging, amplify it, spread it to traditional social media / the real world, “fight” dissidents, etc.

Those “useful idiots” are a fundamental part of an efficient, cost effective, and successful disinformation campaign.

Malek061 ,

The useful idiots are pumped up by bots upvoting.

lltnskyc ,

Zelenskyy thanks US for opportunity to kill some tens/hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians more, as well as pocket a few billion dollars for himself and his friends.

nexusband ,
@nexusband@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, let Russia walz right through Ukraine and then Moldova - what could possibly go wrong! Apart from that, Russia is the one loosing hundreds of thousands soldiers. The difference in the way Ukraine mourns their lost ones is such, that calling Russia “Civilized” in any way is just a blatant lie. Russia is utterly disgusting.

lltnskyc ,

Yeah, let Russia walz right through Ukraine and then Moldova - what could possibly go wrong!

You know that Zelensky is the one that is not willing to negotiate and just wants to murder as many people as he can?
For a war to end there needs to be a negotiation (with some quite rare exceptions of totally conquering another country or stalemates like in Koreas), and Russia is constantly saying (even when it’s winning) that it is willing to negotiate and end the war, in contrast to Zelensky.
How hypocritical do you have to be, to be on the side of those who are not willing to negotiate and continuing the war despite everything, and yet accuse the other side of wanting to conquer the world?

Takios ,
@Takios@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Putin has started the war and can end it at any time he pleases by removing his forces from the occupied regions of Ukraine.

lltnskyc ,

The hypocrisy here just reached a new height.

The comment by another guy here says

Apart from that, Putin is not willing to negotiate - they are willing to dictated terms

And you say

Putin has started the war and can end it at any time he pleases by removing his forces from the occupied regions of Ukraine.

Which is exactly dictating terms instead of negotiating, and exactly what I am talking about when I say that you are on the side of those who are not willing to negotiate.

Takios ,
@Takios@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

You’re pulling an argument of another person into my argument and accuse me of hypocrisy based on that.
You are arguing in bad faith, have a nice day.

lltnskyc ,

Ok sorry, both comments were heavily upvoted so I assumed this is the collective position, my bad.

jaemo ,

You’re terrible at lying, not convinced at all. 2/10.

lltnskyc , (edited )

So what is it I lie about?
What is this leftist fetish of accusing people of lying, and not point out what they consider a lie (and I’m not even talking about proving the opponents wrong by providing some arguments, this clearly requires too much intelligence, right?)?..

nyctre ,

Because it’s just easier to down vote and move along. We’re not being paid like you are. Plus, fascism is incredibly hard to stomach for normal people. You wouldn’t understand.

lltnskyc ,

Sure, everybody who disagrees with your opinion is getting paid

nyctre ,

You’re right, you could actually be a fascist and do it for free. Shrug Or you actually believe their propaganda, I guess… But if I were you I think I’d rather people believe I was being paid.

lltnskyc ,

You’re right, you could actually be a fascist and do it for free

What a wonderful time we live in, expressing an opinion that murdering people is not OK is now considered fascist :)

Or you actually believe their propaganda

Again, you did not even specify what propaganda do I believe? Seriously, why is everybody here so incapable of having a discussion?
Ok I’ll bite and play a guessing game with you.
Do you consider that “Zelenskyy is the one not negotiating while Russia has repeatedly said it is willing to negotiate” a propaganda?
If so, just let me know and I will give you sources for that, I just though that it is widely known?

nyctre ,

The point is that it’s a shit argument because you don’t negociate with terrorists. If I come into your house and claim the kitchen as my own because it used to be mine 50 years ago, will you say “ok, fine, keep it, but promise me you won’t take the bathroom or the living room later”?

lltnskyc ,

If I come into your house and claim the kitchen as my own because it used to be mine 50 years ago

Do you really not see the irony? Not even the smallest bit? Holy shit…

You can’t claim my kitchen because it was your 50 years ago, but Ukraine can claim Crimea because it used to be theirs 10 years ago?
So the period where you can claim something as your because it belonged to you some time ago is greater than 10 years but smaller than 50 years, is that right?
Okay I actually know the answer to that question - it’s “whatever USA says it is” (rephrased to something like international agreements or UN stuff), sure.

Anyway, this is offtopic. Calling each other terrorists (yeah Russia does that as well) is as counter-productive as it gets, but let’s discuss it anyway.
Definition (from wikipedia, not mine!):


<span style="color:#323232;">Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of intentional violence and fear to achieve political or ideological aims. The term is used in this regard primarily to refer to intentional violence during peacetime or in the context of war against non-combatants. There are various different definitions of terrorism, with no universal agreement about it.
</span>

Regime of zelensky uses violence (in the form of kidnapping people on the streets and sending them to the meat grinder) and fear (people fear to go outside because they can be kidnapped at any time, fear for themselves and for their family) to achieve political aims of conquering territories (you can read it as “reclaiming”, does not matter).
So isn’t it the west that shouldn’t be negotiating with zelensky and instead sending military aid to Russia to deal with terrorists as soon as possible?

nyctre , (edited )

See? This is why nobody talks to you. Because you think Russia “owns” Crimea because they took it 10 years ago. Because you think Russia owns abkazia and south Ossetia because they took it in 2008. Chechnya in 2000 and Transnistria in 92.

You don’t wanna admit it, because as I’ve said, you’re either getting paid or you’re too dumb to see it, but the common denominator is Russia here. They’re the aggressors.

And let’s not pretend that all the Russians that have suddenly showed up in western countries aren’t running away from getting drafted. All the poor ones that couldn’t are doing what? Living happily in Russia or are sent to the front? Ofc you’ll say they’re all happily serving. Except for all the ones that have surrendered and claimed they weren’t even told they were going to war. But that’s all Ukrainian propaganda, right?

Everything Russia does is fine and normal and everything Ukraine does is kidnap, kill, corruption, etc. Right? Makes perfect sense… When you’re being paid by one side… Shrug I’m done… Hope you get whatever it is you deserve :) bb!

lltnskyc ,

And let’s not pretend that all the Russians that have suddenly showed up in western countries aren’t running away from getting drafted

Thank you for proving my point! Yes, you are right, they are running away from getting draft.
Because they can! They have a choice! Ukrainians don’t. Ukrainians are trapped in Ukraine and slowly getting butchered thanks to the support from your government.

nyctre , (edited )

Ahahahha… running away from draft = they had a choice. No, if they had been given a choice they would’ve stayed home. Unlike all the Ukrainians that were forced to flee from the invaders. Because there’s plenty of those as well. But I’m sure you’ll have something to say about that as well… russians in Europe= they have a choice. Ukrainians in Europe = what? Please tell me, I’m sure it’s not “because they can! They have a choice!” Is it?

Also nice dodging of everything else I’ve said. It’s great to see your conversation skills. You’re almost as good as a 3 year old…" Noooo, why won’t you people have a discussion?! Why?! Is it because I’m a vatnik?! What?! Noooo, I’m not, I’m trying to have a discussion but I only bring up lies and twisted bullshit that I’ve been paid to say and ignore everything else, noooo… "

Anyway, let’s keep going, let’s get you some more rubles. Or is it monero for you? xD Tell me more.

lltnskyc , (edited )

running away from draft = they had a choice. No, if they had been given a choice they would’ve stayed home.

They have SOME choice. Ukrainians have none.

Unlike all the Ukrainians that were forced to flee from the invaders.

They CANNOT (at least legally) flee from the invaders. They are locked in a west-sponsored prison called “Ukraine”.

russians in Europe= they have a choice. Ukrainians in Europe = what?

Russians in Europe = they bought a ticket, boarded a plane and landed in Europe. As simple as that.
Ukrainians in Europe = they either

  • gave a HUGE bribe to get out (it’s reported that right now it’s about 25k dollars btw, this is the price of a life of a Ukrainians in case somebody was wondering), and got lucky that it actually worked, because often even giving a bribe doesn’t get you out of this prison
  • managed to cross a border through a wild territory and did not get caught by “heroes” guarding it from either side (I’ve heard that thousands of people have died trying to do so, but I do not have a source for that)
  • happened to be on occupied territories (either because they stayed, or managed to convince authorities that they live there / have a family there / need to go there for some other reason), and simply went to Russia (you know, that monster machine that wants to kill and enslave all Ukrainians, as opposed to west that tries to save them) and then simply went wherever they wanted (some of my family successfully did that).
  • simply were already there before the war started (that’s me)
  • belong to a category that is not (yet! there are more and more talks that everybody should be imprisoned, and just according to Russian propaganda they should “fight till that last Ukrainian”) imprisoned, e.g. women, men under 18, those having 3 children or more, etc.

So - yes exactly, just like I said, people on the territories controlled by Russia have a choice, on territories controlled by Ukraine - they are imprisoned.

I only bring up lies

That is quite funny, because I’m constantly being accused of that, yet nobody even pointed out what exactly I lie about let alone disproving those lies… Weird, don’t you think?..

Also nice dodging of everything else I’ve said

What exactly would you like me to respond to? It’s mostly Ad Hominem about me being stupid, or the usual western “you have different opinion than me so you must be a Russian bot / paid by Russia”, I don’t think it makes sense to respond to that.

Everything Russia does is fine

I’ve never said that, if that’s what you want me to respond to.

nyctre ,

Let me bring it up again then, because if you didn’t ignore it before then you must’ve simply not noticed it. Russia took Crimea and that was fine because it was theirs to begin with or whatever right? Georgia Ossetia and Abkhazia ? Chechnya? Transnistria? All of these democratically elected to be “independent” or to be russian right? Definitely nothing going on there.

And well, I personally know plenty of Ukrainians that aren’t hiding and they haven’t been drafted yet. So I don’t see why they’d need to resort to kidnappings to get people on the frontlines.Go on twitch and other streaming services and you can talk to them yourself. And not talking about the popular ones, there’s people with 0-3 viewers, so you can’t claim they’re public figures and they’re exceptions or whatever .

lltnskyc ,

Russia took Crimea and that was fine because it was theirs to begin with or whatever right? Georgia Ossetia and Abkhazia ? Chechnya? Transnistria? All of these democratically elected to be “independent” or to be russian right? Definitely nothing going on there.

I am not saying either of those things are okay or not okay (as well as other countries annexing other countries’ territories btw), because it depends on whether the people there wanted to part of Russia or not (and we cannot know this for sure, as different sides will claim differently).
As for the Crimea in particular though, I was there a few times while it still belonged to Ukraine, and the people I’ve met there were mostly extremely pro-Russian and some were openly saying they would like to be a part of Russia. But of course this is a hearsay, and you may have heard different things (which wouldn’t mean that either one of us is wrong!), but as I said before I do not assert that this is okay or not okay, I am only saying that I find it quite possible that in case of Crimea it was indeed will of the people (which would make it okay).
The same applies to Donbas - while I have never been there, I’ve met people from there and some of them were pro-Ukrainian some of them were pro-Russian, I met more pro-Russian ones (but again, I agree that this is a hearsay).
As for the other annexed Ukrainian territories and the countries/regions you’ve mentioned - I have never spoken with people from those territories, so again I do not assert it was fine or not fine, as it depends on what people of those territories think - and I do now know that.

And well, I personally know plenty of Ukrainians that aren’t hiding and they haven’t been drafted yet

Everybody I know who hasn’t managed to escape and is of the draft age and isn’t a college student is trying to hide.

So I don’t see why they’d need to resort to kidnappings to get people on the frontlines.

And yet they do.
uadraftmuseum.ch
Because Zelensky’s propaganda repeated by western media is saying that everybody wants to fight Russia and everybody volunteers, while the reality is completely different, and who could have thought - people want to live instead of dying for their politicians (which is what Zelensky with support from the west is doing). And speaking out this fact, that people want to live, and that it is not okay to kill them, makes people call me fascist here. To clarify - I am not saying there are no volunteers, I even have some distant relatives who have volunteered, but they are a minority, the regime needs to kidnap people from the streets in order to survive.

Go on twitch and other streaming services and you can talk to them yourself.

I have no need for that, it’s only logical that not everybody has been kidnapped yet, they do it when they need more people for the meat grinder.
And as I said - for now not everybody needs to fear being kidnapped at any time, as they are not touching some groups of people currently. But they already lowered the age of acceptable kidnapping from 27 to 25, and some even say that kidnapping 18 year olds is only a matter of time (I’ve read stories about how they have already kidnapped a few kids, and even girls, it’s just that for now they let them go when they discover their age/gender, but for how long? let me know if you want me to try to find those stories :) ). Some say that women should get the same treatment.

nyctre ,

Yeah, but see… All the people in russian occupied territories weren’t given a choice. russia occupied and that’s that. Regardless of people’s wills. And they’re doing the same in Ukraine. Except Ukraine is fighting back. If they were to negotiate peace it would simply mean giving up on the people there, because russia would never give them back, getting more territory was the whole point of the attack. So if the people are pro russia sure, those people won’t mind. But if they’re pro Ukraine? What happens to those people? And what happens in a few years when russian forces will have regrouped and they’ll have enough ammo and weapons to attack again? Because history shows they’ll attack again…every few years they take more land. Should everyone from Ukraine just move somewhere else and leave the land for russia to avoid bloodshed? Then maybe Poland and Moldova should do the same, because russia will want that land too. Maybe we should all just become the russian federation. That way for sure no more blood will be spilled. And of course all of this is on Zelensky because he’s the one that attacked. It’s all because of him. If he were a good puppet like lukashenko none of this would’ve happened. That fucking Zelensky… Fuck him for standing up to russia and trying to steer the country towards the EU and NATO, right? It’s all his fault. Before him everyone was pro russia. He could stop putin if only he’d give him what he wants. It’s that simple. Right?

lltnskyc , (edited )

All the people in russian occupied territories weren’t given a choice. russia occupied and that’s that. Regardless of people’s wills.

That’s a fair argument.
But comparing that (simply living under a different government, which is actually extremely similar to the old one) with killing people is not fair.

So if the people are pro russia sure, those people won’t mind. But if they’re pro Ukraine? What happens to those people?

I don’t know, what happens?
They have a choice to do as they please - they can sell their real estate (if they have any, if they don’t then it is even less of a problem) and move to unoccupied Ukraine territories (although it would be a very weird choice, because there they would be trapped, and wouldn’t be able to go back, so this is a one way trip…), or they can continue living on the occupied territories like many have done.

What happens to those people? And what happens in a few years when russian forces will have regrouped and they’ll have enough ammo and weapons to attack again? Because history shows they’ll attack again…every few years they take more land. Should everyone from Ukraine just move somewhere else and leave the land for russia to avoid bloodshed? Then maybe Poland and Moldova should do the same, because russia will want that land too. Maybe we should all just become the russian federation

This is a speculation of what will happen, and unfortunately I’ve lost my crystal ball so it’s not possible for me to confirm whether you are right or wrong.
As for regrouping of the forces… I believe that neither of us is a military expert (let me know if I am wrong), so in my opinion it is Ukraine that needs regrouping (even the western media seems to be predicting their fall now, but of course I can be wrong there), in your opinion it might be the other way around, it’s hard to debate on that.

And of course all of this is on Zelensky because he’s the one that attacked. It’s all because of him.

Please point me to the message where I said that?
The causes for the war is a whole another dimension to discuss, that would include a “war” against Russian language in Ukraine (when it is the language spoken by half of the population, give or take, and that was considered being set as second official language), the glorification of Bandera (you can look up his deeds during WW2, Poles love that guy), and lots of other stuff, but as I said it’s a different topic to discuss.
Russia indeed is the one that attacked Ukraine and I’ve never said otherwise.

That fucking Zelensky… Fuck him for standing up to russia

Indeed fucking Zelensky. Not for standing up to Russia though, but for murdering other people to achieve his political / ideological goals. If he wouldn’t kidnap people and treat them worse then dogs, I would support him (at least to some extent - as I said previously I believe that in case of Crimea and Donbas it was the will of the people to join Russia, but I don’t think it was the case with the other annexed territories), and possibly even donate. But in the current situation - supporting him is equivalent to supporting killing of my friends, family and every other Ukrainian still trapped there. How can I do that? Other people would support him as well. But for now, don’t you think that it is absolutely logical for Ukrainians who dare to want to live - to actually support Russia? It is in our interest for Russia to win, because this is the scenario where we get to live, and in the other scenario we die. This is why I (and many other people, it’s just that you won’t hear that in western media, because that is not the current narration. Surprisingly, you might actually start hearing more about that, because now even some of my very pro-Zelensky friends started to wake up as well. Unsurprisingly this happened because now it started to affect them as well, it was okay for them when it was other people’s problem) hate Zelensky - he makes it impossible for us to support our own fucking country, supporting the invader is the only logical choice if you throw emotions out of it.

and trying to steer the country towards the EU and NATO, right?

In the last negotiations before Zelensky had forbidden negotiations with Russia, it was agreed that Russia doesn’t mind Ukraine joining EU.

nyctre , (edited )

Doesn’t mind joining EU? Oh, because I assume 2014 was a coup and not people being mad at the president refusing to sign a trade agreement with the EU and choosing closer ties to russia despite promises right?

Like those negotiations where russia promised not to attack Ukraine if they gave up their nukes, yeah.

Also, you need a crystal ball to see whether russia will keep doing what they’re been doing for the past 30 years? You’re so cute.

And I find it hilarious that you’re rooting for the perpetrators of the Bucha massacre. I guess none of your friends were there so that was fine. Well, if that’s what your logic dictates, very well. Good luck with that.

But yeah, either you’re a very naïve ukranian or more likely what I’ve been saying from the start. Guess it doesn’t really matter.

lltnskyc ,

Doesn’t mind joining EU?

Why are you asking me? It’s a publicly available info, not my opinion.

Oh, because I assume 2014 was a coup and not people being mad at the president refusing to sign a trade agreement with the EU and choosing closer ties to russia despite promises right?

From wikipedia:
A sudden appropriation of leadership or power; a takeover.

Seems to suit that definition.

Like those negotiations where russia promised not to attack Ukraine if they gave up their nukes, yeah.

Yeah, they did that. Now, would you please be so kind to tell me about a country that never broke any internation laws, agreements, etc.? Pro tip: you can’t.
Does it mean that nobody should negotiate with each anymore because we all did bad things in the past, and we should instead just kill each other?

And I find it hilarious that you’re rooting for the perpetrators of the Bucha massacre. I guess none of your friends were there so that was fine. Well, if that’s what your logic dictates, very well. Good luck with that.

Yes, thankfully none of my friends were there.
But this is again an unfair comparison!
According to the wikipedia - a few hundred people were murdered there. Let’s add to that a few thousand more civilians that were killed by Russian forces. Let’s say it is a ten thousand, give or take. This is a horrible number. Yet the number of people killed/wounded by Zelensky’s regime is an order of fucking magnitude greater than that! Estimated to be in hundreds of thousands!
If you were given an option where you could die with 1% chance or with 10% chance, which option would you choose? I think for most people the answer is clearly the former. My logic indeed dictates that, and I would choose it every time. Does your logic say otherwise?
So you’re damn right I’m rooting for the “perpetrators of the Bucha massacre” instead of “perpetrators of mass genocide of Ukrainians”. If there was a good side to root for, I would. But there isn’t. So I support the side that I consider the lesser evil, the side which gives Ukrainians a hope of survival.

But yeah, either you’re a very naïve ukranian or more likely what I’ve been saying from the start.

Could you please explain to me, how does “rooting for” the side that increases the chance of survival for my family and all the other Ukrainians mean that I am naïve?
Or if you think what you’ve “been saying from the start” (basically that Mr. Putin pays me to write comments on lemmy), why do you think so? Why isn’t it logical for a Ukrainian to hope that Russia will win? I argumented my position, that it’s as simple as increasing the chance of survival for oneself and their family. Isn’t that the most precious thing one has?

nyctre ,

First of all, what putin says and what putin does are 2 different things, that’s the whole point. Actions speak louder than words and his actions have been that of a fascist dictator. I don’t give a fuck what he claims he’s open to before submitting a peace proposal that he knows nobody will accept.

Secondly, I was referring to the russian propaganda that claims it was an American coup as opposed to a people’s revolution. Both are technically coups, but usually coup is used when a military or o elite group takes power, as opposed to the people getting fed up with a corrupt government. “a coup, is typically an illegal and overt attempt by a military organization or other government elites to unseat an incumbent leadership”

Third. Please spare me… You’re literally saying 100 people getting raped and murdered by an attacker is better than 1000 people dying for the freedom an entire country. Also, “31,000 killed, 7,000–8,000 missing”, definitely not an order of magnitude greater. And again, you’re attributing the blame on Zelensky and not on putin who attacked or the russians that killed them. That’s fucked up. Imagine if the US had stayed home instead of helping Europe during WW2. That would’ve meant a lot fewer people killed too, btw. You’re literally rooting for a miniHitler. Only difference is that now Hitler has nukes and NATO are afraid of those. Anyway, I’m really done now. Can’t really talk to someone that admits the Bucha massacre was a thing and argues that those people should win the war. There’s literally nothing I could say to that. If you don’t think that’s wrong, then I don’t know what to say to that. I’m out, bye.

lltnskyc ,

There’s nothing I can say to arguing that “killing Ukrainians is okay because they are killed ‘for the greater good of stopping a miniHitler’” as well. I don’t find it morally correct to kill people that done nothing wrong.

And also,

“31,000 killed, 7,000–8,000 missing”

Is lower than even Ukrainian propaganda is saying, it’s twice that number for the first year of war (US estimate), so about 4 times that number as of now, by US estimate.

nexusband ,
@nexusband@lemmy.world avatar

Why would you even try to negotiate with a terrorist (and whatever else attributes Putin has attributed to him)? For a war to end, there needs to be a winner and a looser - Russia HAS to loose this, because they have been disregarding rules set by most international communities for over 100 Years.

Apart from that, Putin is not willing to negotiate - they are willing to dictated terms. That may just a be a tiny difference to your pea brain, but it’s a pretty huge one in reality. How cynical and fucked up does one have to be, to be willing to negotiate with terrorists? Not only that, how utterly depraved of any civility, intelligence and decency has anyone be, to accuse Ukraine of being “the bad guy” here?

lltnskyc ,

they have been disregarding rules set by most international communities for over 100 Years.

Everybody is breaking them whenever it is convenient.

Putin is not willing to negotiate - they are willing to dictated terms

Well but how do you know that if you don’t negotiate? Your media told you so? Oh then it must be the truth, because it’s the other’s side media that spreads propaganda, the one that you listen to speaks the truth, am I right?

pea brain

Why is almost every negotiation with the “clearly intelligently superior westerner leftists” boils down to Ad Hominem? Why do you never have a convincing argument and have to resort to personal attacks of people you disagree with?

how utterly depraved of any civility, intelligence and decency has anyone be, to accuse Ukraine of being “the bad guy” here?

Are you seriously talking about civility and decency while supporting a regime that hunts and kidnaps people on the streets sending them into the meat grinder? If this is what you call civility and decency, then I am indeed depraved of it.

nexusband ,
@nexusband@lemmy.world avatar

Everybody is breaking them whenever it is convenient.

That’s what Russians are telling themself to cope with the reality, that they don’t want to see. The reality is: Nobody is breaking them like Russia. Even China doesn’t do it like Russia does. For the most part, there is accountability in the rest of the world, corruption isn’t as rampant as it is in Russia.

Well but how do you know that if you don’t negotiate? Your media told you so? Oh then it must be the truth, because it’s the other’s side media that spreads propaganda, the one that you listen to speaks the truth, am I right?

No, you couldn’t be more wrong. “The Media” told me nothing, they just translate what Russia, Putin and his cronies are talking about and there are enough people speaking Russian to raise flags if they translate something wrong. Another thing Russian propaganda is trying to do, but failing for the most part. Sure, interviews can be taken out of context, but actions also speak louder than any words anyone can utter and what russia is doing is terrorizing innocent people, displace innocent children and rip families apart.

Why is almost every negotiation with the “clearly intelligently superior westerner leftists” boils down to Ad Hominem? Why do you never have a convincing argument and have to resort to personal attacks of people you disagree with?

Because “we” are fucking tired of all these stupid antics that can’t even withstand a long hard view at the facts. All that shit about shifting the blame and goalposts, disregarding everything that was “before” is just exhausting and it doesn’t work/help anything, because every argument is met with more lies, propaganda, egoism and whataboutism.

Are you seriously talking about civility and decency while supporting a regime that hunts and kidnaps people on the streets sending them into the meat grinder? If this is what you call civility and decency, then I am indeed depraved of it.

See? That’s what is so utterly infuriating about you - there is not a single shred of evidence supporting this. No Report from anyone has ever talked about this, no interview with the people, no interview with soldiers - nothing. While the evidence Russia is doing exactly that is utterly crushing - there is absolutely zero doubt, because numerous people, outlets, pictures, satellite surveillance and various money laundering schemes reported independently the same thing over and over again.

And for what it’s worth: I’m not sure if i’m talking to ChatGPT or a proper human being, but if i’m talking to a real human being, nothing i will write here will get you off your high horse anyway, so this is more to all those people reading this in the future (if any), but let it be known that enough is enough and “the silent majority” is done being quiet.

lltnskyc ,

there is not a single shred of evidence supporting this

uadraftmuseum.ch

btaf45 ,

Everybody is breaking them whenever it is convenient.

Putin’s Evil Empire isn’t “everybody”.

supporting a regime that hunts and kidnaps people on the streets sending them into the meat grinder?

Yes why do you support these guys? And why do you hate the Free World?

…nyt.com/…/24ukraine-briefing-Russianprotestssub-…

lltnskyc ,

Yes why do you support these guys?

I support neither Russia nor Ukraine.

And why do you hate the Free World?

Because the Free World is currently conducting a genocide on Ukrainians

Honytawk ,

The only ones conducting a genocide on Ukrainians are the Russians.

They could pull back any time they wanted and end the war this instant. But they choose to keep killing.

lltnskyc ,

The only ones conducting a genocide on Ukrainians are the Russians.

Nope, it’s Zelensky thanks to the support from the west. The only ones that can be considered killed by Russians are killed civilians and volunteers (those two groups together are barely a meaningful number). People who are kidnapped on the streets and sent to army are dead thanks to Zelensky and your (rather your government) support of him. If it were not for that, they would be alive (or at least they would have a much higher chance to be alive). If you are going to deny that, please take an effort to argument your position, as it is quite tiring to speak to a wall :/

btaf45 ,

And why do you hate the Free World?

Because the Free World is currently conducting a genocide on Ukrainians

You cannot tell the difference between Russia and the Free World? What is wrong with you man?

lltnskyc ,

You cannot tell the difference between Russia and the Free World? What is wrong with you man?

Is it Russia that kidnaps Ukrainians on the streets and sends them to die? The last time I checked it was Zelensky’s regime.

btaf45 ,

Nope. It is Russia that has kidnapped almost 20,000 Ukrainian children. That is the side you are on.

en.wikipedia.org/…/Child_abductions_in_the_Russo-…

lltnskyc ,

Ah, so justification is - they do something bad, so we will do something bad as well (not towards them tho).
Got it

drathvedro ,

The difference in the way Ukraine mourns their lost ones is such

The fuck you’re saying, man? Have some conscience, don’t say shit like that

that calling Russia “Civilized” in any way is just a blatant lie

It’s not the Russian soldiers who pick up the phones off enemy soldiers to humiliate and blackmail their relatives and wives(or widows). It’s not Russians who are breaking into every single Ukrainian public conversation to remind everyone that they do, in fact, celebrate deaths of innocent people. This is something that is unfortunately rather common among Ukrainians, and something that I’ve witnessed first hand on multiple occasions.

btaf45 ,

You are on the side of these jackbooted thugs.

…nyt.com/…/24ukraine-briefing-Russianprotestssub-…

Honytawk ,

The only ones killing Ukrainians are the Russians and their bloodthirsty lapdogs they send against their will into war.

lltnskyc ,

Answered another one of your comment, but I’ll reiterate it here as well - the ones that are killing Ukrainians are Zelensky and his regime supported by the west, by “sending against their will into war”.
If not for that, those people would live, so their blood is on your hands.

ZK686 ,

Republicans are not against aid, and they ARE NOT in bed with the Russians. This is just ignorant talk by people on Lemmy and Reddit. Republicans want accountability about all the money that is being sent all over the fucking place. If it was up to Democrats, they’d just send, send, send…no questions asked. Keep in mind that Ukraine was once considered one of the most corrupt countries on the planet, so yea, let’s just keep sending them billions and billions without making sure the money is actually being used for what it’s supposed too…

LuhimeWired ,

How’s that boot tasting?

disguy_ovahea ,

Russia disagrees.

washingtonpost.com/…/russia-propaganda-us-ukraine…

washingtonpost.com/…/e7843591-08c7-4dab-98e1-d6fa…

btaf45 ,

Republicans want accountability about all the money

How idiotic can you get?? The accountability is that Ukraine will lose their country and their lives to Putin’s Evil Empire if they lose the war. So stop with the nonsense.

Remember that guy George Bush that you voted for? When he sent $8 billion in US currency to Iraq that was instantly stolen, did you or any other Republican raise a finger? NOPE.

Keep in mind that Ukraine was once considered one of the most corrupt countries on the planet

Nope. Russia is considered 10x more corrupt. Ukraine is somewhere near the median of 200 countries.

Retrogrademer ,

Give money 🤑

Badeendje ,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

Now the Senate still has to pass the bills. Hopefully this will work out.

FiniteBanjo ,

Yeah, I was gunna say, they’re gunna need to learn to put the mortar before the shell once they get their funding. Thanking us for something that might never come is a little out there.

I just hope the senate is able to vote on the components separately like the House was, because Fuck Russia but also very much Fuck Israel.

AngryCommieKender ,

Hey, Republicans, do y’all remember Red Dawn? Those two movies you made about The USSR and Russia being the ultimate evil enemy that was going to invade and must be stopped? You do? Good.

My real question is, why in the name of all that is Murican, ARE YOU ACTIVELY HELPING RUSSIA WITH THEIR ILLEGAL AND UNPROVOKED INVASION‽‽‽

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

“Red Dawn” is the most compelling reminder here…?

AngryCommieKender ,

I know several conservatives that swore that movie was a very probable scenario in the 80s-00s. AFAIK they’ve all left the party.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

I just figured instead of a mildly popular cold war era fictional book/movie, a better reminder would be the, you know, cold war.

CableMonster ,

Well if “several conseravtives” believed it…

ZK686 ,

Republicans are not helping anyone, you’re spending too much time on here buddy. Republicans simply want accountability for the aid. They ask questions, because if it was up to the Democrats, they’d just send, send, send…

aesthelete ,

They ask questions, because if it was up to the Democrats, they’d just send, send, send…

Sounds like you, who rolled all up and down this thread and c&ped this same bullshit and hit “send send send”.

rusticus ,

Nice try comrade. There are so many Republicans bought and paid for by Russian oligarchy dirty money it’s hard to tell the difference now. How does it feel to be a traitor to the United States for your butt buddies in Moscow? Confederates, all of you.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Well, you’re half right…

“Republicans are not helping anyone”

ZK686 ,

They’re helping me. I’ve worked my ass off for what I have in life…it seems to me that the only party that continues to have their hands out are Democrats.

sgnl ,

So you’re in the 1%. Cause if you’re not that’s blatantly incorrect.

Katana314 ,

I’m just asking questions

btaf45 ,

want accountability for the aid.

The accountability is that Ukraine will lose their country and their lives to Putin’s Evil Empire if they don’t win the war. Why do you hate freedom and the Free World?

eran_morad ,

The republican traitor filth should be sent to the front, to fight for their motherland.

ZK686 ,

Oh geez…you’re spending way too much time on Lemmy/Reddit…Republicans are all in favor of helping Ukraine, they’re just more careful about sending billions and billions and it becomes an endless money pit…that shit happens all the time, and the Republicans are the “traitors” for questioning why and where all the money is being sent. If it was up to Democrats, there’d be NO questions… just send money!

eran_morad ,

Get back to servicing putin’s dick.

ZK686 ,

Hey man, I’m all in favor in helping Ukraine, I think we should absolutely do what we need to do…as do most Republicans. However, if history has taught us anything, it’s also that we cannot be an endless money pit for European affairs. I have no issues giving Ukraine money, but I think it’s always a good thing to question everything.

saltesc ,

Exactly Bernie Sanders’ reasons behind his view on foreign policy and why that money should go to improving the well-being of those that work for it.

I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. I thought Lemmy’s self-proclaimed left-wingers loved Bernie. Apparently they hate him now.

fuckingkangaroos ,

“First, it is imperative that we support Ukraine’s valiant effort to defend itself against Putin’s invasion. If Ukraine falls, it will be a signal to Putin that he can continue to expand his authoritarian aggression against democratic nations” -Bernie Sanders

saltesc , (edited )

What does that quote have to do with anything?

There is no correlation. You can be fully supportive of Ukraine and be fully supportive of US expenditure being domestically focused, cautious of foreign aid plans, exactly ZK686’s position as well.

Yes. Bernie massively supports Ukraine. Obviously.

But, Bernie was also part of the reason the bill kept being delayed.

😲

Sanders, Welch Break with Democrats to Vote ‘No’ on Israel, Ukraine Aid Package - sanders.senate.gov

And why was that? Well, now we’re finally back on topic… Sanders has always been opposed to foreign aid and foreign policy when American public are in need. This especially to not emptying money with no plan into “a bottomless pit.” If you’ve somehow missed it in his speeches and debates over the decades, you can read more about it in his letter which specifically covers this topic amongst others…

…senate.gov/…/prepared-remarks-sanders-expresses-…

It is mirroring what ZK686 is saying.

But because ZK686 seems to have identified as a republican from “the other tribe”, when they say it it’s horseshit and woffle and we get the spears and rocks out, amiright?

This place sometimes. Absolute circus… Every village has its idiots; whether red or blue makes no difference.

btaf45 ,

if history has taught us anything,

…it is that appeasement causes far greater problems in the long term. We need Churchill not Chamberlain.

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy ,

I didn’t see them pinching the pennies when they were trying to build pointless their 2000 mile border wall

ZK686 ,

“The United States needs to stop getting involved in everyone else’s business” - Sincerely, The World

“The United States needs to do more to get involved in everyone else’s business” - Sincerely, The World

I swear… if it’s not a war that’s supported by the Left, than we’re all traitors for questioning the finances behind it…

SuddenDownpour ,

I like it when people and institutions do good things, I dislike it when people and institutions do bad things, simply enough. If there’s one or two good things the US does at the geopolitical stage, and they hesitate, I’m just going to sigh in dissapointment.

anticolonialist ,

Dont lump democrats in with the left, we see them as right wing

btaf45 ,

Ukraine is supported by the entire Free World. Putin’s Evil Empire and imperialist war of aggression is supported by neofascists.

GelatinGeorge ,

I’m genuinely thankful you’ve made it this obvious how much of a fucking moron you are as I can block you immediately and get on with my day.

ZK686 ,

Let me guess, only left politics and democrats are your happy place? God forbid anyone disagrees…

Harbinger01173430 ,

Why are you being down voted? Is this place becoming an I support the current thing place too?

Retrogrademer ,

Always has been. Full of Biden cock suckers

Harbinger01173430 ,

Fucking old cock. Disgusting

corsicanguppy ,

If the current thing is the least worst option, then yes. If you can’t see it’s about least-worst and not branding, you may need to repeat some courses.

jaemo ,

It might be a commentary on critical thinking, who knows? Definitely not you!

Harbinger01173430 ,

Critical thinking was not taught to me in school or university. Just memorize, spew nonsense to score more points on ‘analysis’ questions and google the fuck out of everything.

ZK686 ,

Yes, it’s Reddit 2.0: “This is a Liberal/Democrat site ONLY!”

corsicanguppy ,

Here’s the facts:

  • freedom is hard and expensive
  • the conservative “I got mine;fuck you” doesn’t work when it’s ‘others’ in need; it doesn’t even work when it’s poorer Americans in need
  • the sea lion questioning is a stalling tactic; always has been.
  • Republicans can’t even keep a Senate leader, and this guy was right up their seditious theocratic enslaving-women hell-hole alley. They will readily agree to nothing that doesn’t fit their cruel and narrow ideological dependencies.

It always was going to BE a money pit, as that’s the alternative to Normandy and ditching the UN shackles (which is a terrible idea but required).

Time to spend 1/10th as much on Ukraine’s military as America spends on its own, and solve this shit.

obviouspornalt ,

House of Representatives majority leader, not Senate.

But otherwise, yes.

fuckingkangaroos ,

Good points, with noting that the aid to Ukraine can easily be justified from a selfish perspective. The fact that it’s also a truly just cause isn’t really part of the equation for a lot of those politicians.

psycho_driver ,

Anybody who will actually take the time to read your comment by this point knows you’re full of shit. Republicans aren’t the party of fiscal responsibility. The only situation in which they actually care about saving money is if it saves money for their 1% handlers.

ZK686 ,

So, there should NO questioning funds that are sent all over the world? The US should just say “here, take whatever you want!”

psycho_driver ,

Funding this proxy war is probably the absolute smartest thing the US could do. The Ukrainians are badasses (read up on their ice fortress revolution in 2014) and are fighting for their homeland. Russia is our second most powerful adversary in the world (and are far more adversarial with us than China) and this war is draining their morale and economy.

disguy_ovahea ,

Russia disagrees.

washingtonpost.com/…/russia-propaganda-us-ukraine…

washingtonpost.com/…/e7843591-08c7-4dab-98e1-d6fa…

ZK686 ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    ZK686 ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    ZK686 ,

    Who cares what Russia says? They’re also claiming Ukraine is rightfully there’s…the point is to make sure the funds are doing what they’re supposed too. If both sides just say “here, take whatever you want!” what good is that? It’s about checks and balances, we don’t want this to turn into another Vietnam…

    absentbird ,
    @absentbird@lemm.ee avatar

    That’s not what the republicans blocking the aid have been saying: www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67649497

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    Now I have you tagged as “liar”

    Honytawk ,

    Every dollar send to help Ukraine will save about 10 dollars you don’t have to spend in a full out war.

    It’s an easy calculation only a Russian shill or the people dumb enough to believe their lies would dispute.

    Shadywack ,
    @Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

    Fuck Russian scum, I hope the US missiles and tanks fuckin hurt. Putin is a goatfucker too.

    beardown ,

    Fuck Russian scum

    This should be banned for hate based on national origin

    You have more in common with the Russian working class that is being sent to die in Ukraine than you have in common with American billionaires.

    Putin, Russian Oligarchs, and American Oligarchs are your enemies. Not the common Russian men that are conscripted against their will to die for no reason

    Shadywack ,
    @Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

    Cry harder that the Soviet Union collapsed and left the majority of Russian males a bunch of hopeless drunks obeying a piece of shit dictator like Putin. Cry harder that Ukraine resisted an unwarranted invasion based on fear of Russia’s continually waning power. Cry harder that Wagner almost kicked Putin’s ass and caused the Kremlin to have to backtrack.

    When I say “fuck Russian scum”, there are plenty of good hearted Russians, but the scum, fuck them. Putin is scum, btw, a piece of shit goat-fucking wannabe BITCH.

    beardown ,

    the Soviet Union collapsed and left the majority of Russian males a bunch of hopeless drunks obeying a piece of shit dictator like Putin

    If that’s true, then aren’t they victims of the lottery of birth who deserve our compassion and pity? There but for the grace of God go you or I; we could have easily been born in Russia instead of here - and would be suffering the consequences accordingly

    Putin’s actions are a seperate issue. But the common Russians are largely blameless for the actions of their country

    Shadywack ,
    @Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

    If that’s true, then aren’t they victims of the lottery of birth who deserve our compassion and pity?

    Did I say they don’t deserve compassion or pity? Deserving of it they may be, that alone might be even more insulting to them than what I said. One thing that didn’t change from Soviet era is that everyone must follow the political platform with a figurative gun to their head. It’s ok to say that the Russian invasion is wrong, and the US’s missiles and tanks will be blasting servicemen to bits who do not deserve to be blown to bits, but they will be violently killed, as it is a war.

    Asking them nicely to stop invading isn’t going to work.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    The republican traitor filth should be sent to the front

    Its curious to see someone propose that the punishment for opposing a war is to fight in it. But the reward for supporting the war is to profit from it.

    CanadaPlus ,

    Its curious to see someone propose that the punishment for opposing a war is to fight in it.

    Isn’t that literally the Russian policy?

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    I think the Russian policy is to conscript anyone currently in jail. But the Russian Federation has one of the highest prison populations in the world (475 per 100,000). The lion’s share of that population is guilty of petty theft, illegal drug use/sales, and vagrancy/illegal encampment.

    The US gave up on this conscription strategy after the Vietnam War, when a bunch of minority community groups like the Black Panthers and the Raza Unida Party started cropping up.

    CanadaPlus ,

    I can’t find what I was talking about now, but I’m sure there were reports about mobilisation being used as a punishment for speaking out against the “special military operation”.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    There’s definitely instances of Russian political dissidents being thrown in jail. And from there, they’d get sucked up into the jail-to-combat pipeline.

    This isn’t strictly unusual for government agencies. The California state fire patrol is composed largely of prison labor. But training dissidents and vagrants in the art of war carries its own basket of problems. It only works if you do the Iran-Iraq War trick and have your dissidents-turned-soldiers in the worst possible conditions (in that case, Iranian Revolution student protesters were turned into shock troops expected to run across Iraqi mine fields).

    In the current state of the Ukraine-Russia War, its the Russians hiding behind the mine fields and the Ukrainians charging across them. But I’m more than confident that there’s some other low-skill high-lethality job for them to do. Maybe playing “The Most Dangerous Game” against Ukrainian drones, so Russian anti-drone units can target and shoot them down.

    eran_morad ,

    Fuck off with this disingenuous horseshit. They’re not opposed to this war. They’re opposed to helping the resistance to Russia’s imperialism, because they’re russian puppets.

    CableMonster ,

    If this war is so important to you, why are you not over there right now fighting instead of a conscripted Ukrainian?

    eran_morad ,

    Get back to servicing putin’s schlong, traitor.

    CableMonster ,

    Oh wow, what a unique insult…

    bradorsomething ,

    Sorry we’re late, we let the stupid people plan things and… you know.

    VEGAN__MEAT_SHIELD____ ,

    Hitler would be proud

    TimeNaan ,

    Account created: 21.04.2024

    Ok bro

    QuarterSwede ,
    @QuarterSwede@lemmy.world avatar

    Did Zelensky really think the US wouldn’t take another chance to play war games? Nah, we like instability too much. Can’t have Russia gaining too much power/resources now. Sorry we’re late, as usual.

    julianh ,

    The war is already happening regardless of what the us does. Would you rather we just sit back and let Russia destroy ukraine?

    QuarterSwede ,
    @QuarterSwede@lemmy.world avatar

    Lots of hate for how the US does business here. But of course I want them to help Ukraine in the end. Doesn’t make all of their politics right. It’s all a big game and if you don’t believe that you’re sadly naive. Our politicians are addicted to the game of chess, it’s not just the power.

    ugjka ,
    @ugjka@lemmy.world avatar

    https://newamericangovernment.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/why-attack-hitler.jpeg

    QuarterSwede ,
    @QuarterSwede@lemmy.world avatar

    Apparently my main point is getting buried. I agree.

    Syntha ,

    That image is very likely to be fake, btw.

    Snowpix ,
    @Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

    Prove it.

    Syntha ,

    USHMM historians suspect that the protest march has been staged for the March of Time camera. People appear to pose for the camera, speeding up to get into the frame and practicing. There were quite a number of anti-interventionist groups on the left and the right at the time. However, the only references to the “American Union for Organization Against War” relate to this film, and the “organization” does not show up in any of the literature of isolationist groups from the period.

    disguy_ovahea ,

    I’m American, and can say it’s likely real. There were strong calls for isolationism after WWI. The US waited over two years to join the allies in WWII. It’s important to know of our government’s failures as well as successes, or we face repetition.

    Syntha ,

    The Holocaust Memorial Museum disagrees.

    disguy_ovahea ,

    Then the museum is wrong. WWII began September 1, 1939, when Germany invaded Poland. The US entered in response to the bombing of Pearl Harbor which occurred on December 7, 1941, over two years later.

    Syntha ,

    The fuck are you talking about? The historians who investigated the origins of this photo conclude that it is likely to be staged. It’s completely irrelevant when the US entered WWII

    prettybunnys ,

    “half” of the political interest in this nation would have preferred to not give Ukraine a penny and allow Russia to take what they want.

    Right now there is a very real risk that the USA will stop coming to their aid. I am ASHAMED as a US citizen that right now we’re hemming and hawing about getting involved.

    My entire fucking life has been war on foreign soil and NOW when we have a chance to be the honest to god fucking good guys and half of the nation would rather restrict human rights then defend them, it’s sickening.

    BabyVi ,

    I feel this, it pisses me off so much. The scumbags are jingoistic as fuck up until the conflict is an ANTI-imperialist one.

    assassin_aragorn ,

    the conflict is an ANTI-imperialist one

    The conflict has become a litmus test on the left for if someone is actually anti imperialist, or if they just dislike the West

    Lianodel ,

    Preach. Those people drive me up the fucking wall. And especially since their idea of praxis is being a dick on the internet and not voting, then claim to be the only true leftists.

    assassin_aragorn ,

    Yeah, they’ll say the system can’t be used to fix the system and we need a violent revolution, but they ignore how all the previous leftists successfully made good changes to the system. Civil rights, women’s suffrage, gay rights, workers rights – they were all accomplished through voting and the first amendment.

    Lianodel ,

    Yeah. It can be simultaneously true that voting is a fundamentally broken system that will only allow for so much change, and that elections have life-or-death consequences. It can also be simultaneously true that both the parties are terrible, and that the Democrats are less bad.

    I would give them more credit if they ever did any organizing, or even talked about organizing, but it’s just crabs in a bucket.

    Oh, and in another thread, they were complaining about “theft.” It was the seizure of Russian assets to fund the defense of Ukraine. They were defending the foreign bank accounts of billionaires. Real clown shit.

    Transporter_Room_3 ,
    @Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website avatar

    It’s bullshit that they’re being thanked for table scraps that the children had to slap fight over how many scraps are allowed…

    Of course anything other than 100% gratitude would be touted by the shittier child for the rest of their life regardless of whether the scraps ended off starvation or not.

    My metaphor got a little weird but what the fuck.

    OpenStars ,
    @OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

    While true that the timing is shit, the amount is nowhere close to “table scraps” - this seems like it will legit be helpful, maybe even enough to turn the tide in Ukraine?

    Also, it’s not like Congress fed its own and then waited months to feed the dog - rather, dinner for the entire family was delayed from the start of the fiscal year 2024 in October 1 until just a few weeks ago, involving the ousting of one Speaker of the House and almost doing so to the second as well. And now, this aid package for Ukraine may likewise finish the job of getting the Speaker kicked out, bc any time the government is “functional” is considered bad by some elements.

    But the timing from passing the federal budget itself to passing this aid package is actually quite short. Yes it’s half a year late, but it did eventually happen, and the amount of aid is large, so is a “success” by multiple metrics, and all the more so given the opposition. If we do end up having a civil war as people like MTG are calling for, this may well be the last aid package that the USA ever manages to pass in the final stages of its democracy.

    So imho we should take the win and be happy - we may not get to celebrate Congress doing routine activities like “passing budgets” very often in the future, even six months late.

    natural_motions , (edited )

    A large amount of the money goes towards paying the DoD to replenish stuff for US stock they already sent, so while it’s not nothing it’s also not really 60 billion in practice.

    We are going to need to do this again in a year because every delay extends the war and pushes Ukraine further from being able to regain the initiative. It’s the same way the delay on the F-16s crippled the effectiveness of last summer’s offensive by Ukraine. The US delayed and delayed until the window for the F-16s to be effective had passed and everything became entrenched again over the winter and thousands of Ukrainian reserves had been spent on a largely ineffective push.

    It’s now spring, and the aid probably won’t really get there for months, so I foresee this stalling things yet again.

    Zelensky is right to still kiss asses, but it’s got to be really frustrating to have your fate hang on the likes of doddering old fools and fanatical religious zealots.

    OpenStars ,
    @OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

    There’s a lot we could unpack there - e.g. it makes me all the more glad that they passed this, since we’ve already spent it either way!?

    One quick item: Biden has stated that the aid can be there this week. He was prepared to spring on this. As you already said, this package was mostly to replenish already-spent funds, not as much directly to push forward with new ones. Although with that replenished stamina, I would expect to see new pushes happen as well.

    Another big item is that Ukraine is not a member of the EU or NATO. As such it is “entitled” to nothing - everything that is being offered is purely voluntary. So, compared to nothing, $60B USD is quite a lot? Hence why he is grateful, and rightly so.

    Another is that the USA does not need to be the sole provider of this aid - not that I am glad for the pause, but given that it happened anyway, I was heartened to see other nations rise up and cover the slack. And now for the USA to join the right side of history - well, better late than never, and all the more so with an amount this big!:-)

    As you pointed out, the biggest one is that there is a faction within the US government that looks to be wanting Ukraine to fail, or more precisely for Russia to win. If Trump “wins” the next election, one way or another (i.e. legally or… otherwise), the USA may even go so far as to join Russia against Ukraine?! But for now, even delaying that aid may hamper it enough for Russia to finish the job. Maybe. Even so, this particular aid package got passed. Come what may, this one is a success. It is as important to celebrate success as it is to call out failures - failing to do either is biased, and therefore wrong.

    Speaking of, the USA may also fail one day, less due to direct Russian military intervention and more from an internal civil war. But not today, b/c again, come what may, this particular aid package got passed, whoo-hoo!:-)

    Eatspancakes84 ,

    The main problem is that most European nations essentially disbanded their military after the financial crisis. The European weakness has made it extremely difficult to deliver weapons so far. Thankfully the European war machine is now really picking up and is ready to take over in case of GOP shenanigans (unfortunately we are electing our own idiots and Moscow stooges so no guarantees ).

    OpenStars ,
    @OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

    Russia can be smart… in some ways, sometimes (while also simultaneously dumb in others, as aren’t we all?:-P). e.g. wasn’t it 2025 that Germany was scheduled to eliminate its dependence upon Russian oil (or was it rather all?) for energy. Knowing this does seem likely to have influenced the timeline of events somewhat, seeing how in that regard at least (and some others) it was the perfect time to strike - i.e. if they had waited longer it would have become far more difficult?

    And let’s be blunt: if they had managed to take over what they wanted in that “three-day” timetable as initially planned, wouldn’t Europe have simply let them have it? As we consider that, let us not kid ourselves here b/c this invasion has gone on for a decade at this point - Georgia, Crimea, the area west of Crimea, etc. - each time citing “no, I swear, this was all that I wanted, I won’t do this ever again, I promise”. So if EU nations are somehow shocked, Shocked I tell you, SHOCKED, that those leopards would not one day turn and eat THEIR faces off, then I don’t know what to tell them…

    However, I was pleased to note how e.g. Germany quickly turned its economy upside down and started mass-producing weapons. They tend to be a very smart and technically-minded people, so I for one have no problems believing that it at least could have been a strategic move on their part to “not have weapons”, when they were not immediately needed, yet also be ready to start producing them at a moment’s notice when the need for such became apparent - as you pointed out.

    Likewise but with very different factors involved, those nations physically closest to Russia may have wanted weapons yet been afraid of enraging the bear by having them? So what I am trying, probably ineptly, to say is that it may not “purely” be due to willful ignorance on behalf of every EU nation, to lay down those older-style weapons that cost a lot yet haven’t been necessary for literally decades. A better cost-to-benefit ratio may have been to invest in something like energy independence, so long as the military factor was covered at some very minimal level.

    Plus technology changes so fast… as we are seeing live in Ukraine, “tanks” were not the big thing, especially as Russia heavily misused them at first, compared to drones, right? So EU nations were “not prepared”, in the specific sense, but by investing into robotics and batteries and such, the converse does not seem quite true either i.e. we cannot say that those same nations were not entirely “unprepared” either?

    That is why it is so amazing that Ukraine is holding off Russia, essentially acting as the shield for the entire fucking world, making Russia expend all of its military might & resources upon it, which could otherwise be put to use elsewhere, into saving up and preparing for the next target, which they ofc according to Russa “we have no plans for, b/c Ukraine is all that we want, we promise”!

    Ukraine really does deserve aid then - they’ve earned that. But… there are >100 Republicans who seem to believe rather that Russia has “earned” the right to take whatever they want. And that should worry us all, around the world.

    btaf45 ,

    Speaking of, the USA may also fail one day,

    And yet so far the USA has been the most successful country in the world.

    OpenStars ,
    @OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

    I mean… that depends on what metric you are going by, I suppose.

    Not by personal happiness, or by health outcomes, or “freedom”, or safety, or education, or (non-military) technology, or … well the list gets rather extensive.

    To be fair, the USA did used to lead the world, e.g. being first if not to space then to the moon, and we sequenced the human genome, and computers were invented here, and there’s Hollywood serving up movies and culture all over the world, etc., so I am not knocking any of the past achievements. Notably, after WWII we did get a bit of an “uneven” start compared to countries like the UK that were bombed by Germany whereas the USA emerged fairly unscathed, and yet we took that headstart and really went for it! We indeed were the most successful country in the world - unquestioned by almost anyone.

    However, lately… well, “the economy” is still booming, but most average people are going to die significantly sooner than their parents generation did, possibly by a terrorist event such as a school shooting that we have nothing whatsoever to try to stop, health outcomes are abysmal, and many millennials and especially Gen-Zers strongly doubt that they will ever be able to afford a home, seeing how homes have become “investments” rather than places to live in, colleges costs have quintupled, most jobs today for younger people are “temporary” positions in the gig economy, etc. etc. etc.

    You do bring up a good point: compared to the rest of the world we still do have it pretty good, in some ways. It is just that compared to how we ourselves used to have it e.g. 50 years ago, we are doing significantly worse, relatively speaking.

    Look at almost any list, e.g. the top 10 scientific discoveries, or engineering accomplishments, and America barely makes those lists anymore. Other nations with drive & heart like India or China are sacrificing so that they can outpace us. That’s fine I guess, they needed their turn:-). But at some point we should ourselves: what exactly makes us “successful”… these days?

    You might think that I am one of those that hates America, but I do not think of myself that way, it is just that I am questioning our place and how it has changed over the years. Though perhaps I am simply paying attention to the wrong sources, so if you want to send me something to read or watch that answers that, I would like to learn. So far though, everything that I have learned lately ends up just depressing me b/c it at least appears to be a decay, and not just morally.

    TheMusicalFruit ,

    How much money do you think Ukraine is entitled? After this influx of “scraps”, the USA has contributed more in total dollars than the rest of the world combined. Here is a good source, keep in mind this data is from February and doesn’t include the latest funding: cfr.org/…/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-a…

    Zoboomafoo ,

    All of it. I want the AFU to have so much US-supplied ordinance that it makes Helldivers look prophetic

    khannie ,
    @khannie@lemmy.world avatar

    the USA has contributed more in total dollars than the rest of the world combined

    This is incorrect.

    Here’s another link that doesn’t include billions more from other EU countries since January.

    Also European money is overwhelmingly being sent as cash. US aid is overwhelmingly spent inside the US.

    TheMusicalFruit ,

    This graph is only good through February as well and doesn’t include the latest aide packages from the US and EU. I found that the EU added another 50 billion euros in feb and the US another 57 just now. So I’ll adjust my statement, the US has given as much as the EU. The spirit of my original comment still remains. Why all the hate on here for a very generous aide package?

    khannie ,
    @khannie@lemmy.world avatar

    No hate here. I’m delighted it’s coming. I think there’s a lot of frustration with the lives and ground lost over political wrangling.

    rusticus ,

    You’re right. Block all the funding. Wait, what will you do when China goes after Taiwan? And Russia goes after Poland and Scandinavia? There is historical precedent for your type of lunacy. Hitler was just going to stop with Poland, right?

    TheMusicalFruit ,

    You’re jumping to conclusions, I actually support the aide packages. What I don’t support is an attitude of entitlement and calling what is a very generous aide package “scraps.” Yes it came later than what would be ideal, but it came and will help.

    btaf45 ,

    We literally spent many trillions of dollars keeping the Kremlin in check during the Cold War. Helping Ukraine now is a marvelous bargain for us that will save us a far greater amount of money later.

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