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NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

This is nuts. This better not be some bullshit to manufacture consent for war escalation.

BestBouclettes ,

Days after Putin’s reelection? Sounds very suspicious indeed.

gravitas_deficiency ,

Remember: no Russian.

rottingleaf ,

Would be suspicious days before his reelection.

anarchy79 ,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Why do it before the countrywide protests? Good thing those are over now under the curfew.

thawed_caveman ,

A lot has been said about Call of Duty MWII, but if your theory is correct then we’ll have to say that, of all things, its plot was prescient. And i’m not ready for that

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3a5986e8-760b-4aa0-9eaa-d201b4b2101a.jpeg

Kecessa ,

As mentioned in another comment, wouldn’t be the first time

…wikipedia.org/…/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings

kautau ,

Yeah, art often finds inspiration from the world, and since the world can infinitely be sad, plenty of art has gleaned inspiration from it. It’s way more sad when world -> art -> world though, we are doomed to commit our misdeeds repeatedly

Zahille7 ,

Art imitates life imitates art.

Gradually_Adjusting ,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

Sufficiently advanced remembering resembles precognition

SkybreakerEngineer ,

All these things have happened before, and will happen again

anarchy79 ,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Oh come on, Russia wouldn’t lie about anything.

DarkThoughts ,

I don't think so. The US actually warned about imminent terror attacks by ISIS in Moscow a few weeks ago.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah at this point it seems pretty clear this is a ISIS terror attack.

Tinidril ,

That doesn’t mean it wasn’t allowed to happen for other purposes.

anarchy79 ,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Or directly funded through back channels.

rambling_lunatic ,

From the article:

The official said U.S. intelligence agencies had gathered information in recent weeks that the IS branch was planning an attack in Moscow. He said U.S. officials privately shared the intelligence earlier this month with Russian officials. The official was briefed on the matter but was not authorized to publicly discuss the intelligence information and spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity.

…

The Kremlin didn’t immediately blame anyone for the attack, but some Russian lawmakers were quick to accuse Ukraine and called for ramping up strikes. Hours before the attack, the Russian military l aunched (sic) a sweeping barrage on Ukraine’s power system, crippling the country’s biggest hydroelectric plant and other energy facilities and leaving more than a million people without electricity.

Dmitry Medvedev, deputy head of Russia’s Security Council, said that if Ukraine involvement was proven, all those involved “must be tracked down and killed without mercy, including officials of the state that committed such outrage.”

Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, denied Ukraine involvement.

EdibleFriend , (edited )
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

Has anybody claimed responsibility for this yet? This doesn’t sound like the Ukraine. They hit strategic shit.

whotookkarl ,
@whotookkarl@lemmy.world avatar

Not seeing anything yet but it can be hard to get accurate news reporting from a country that kills subversive journalists and is in a war. I think most are assuming it’s either an internal or external paramilitary group related to the war in Ukraine, or domestic terrorists related to the recent elections, I think targeting a concert is more likely the latter but we’ll see which group takes responsibility if any.

empireOfLove2 ,

But Russia will immediately blame it on Umraine and the west anyway lol

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Likely despite US intelligence warning about imminent terror attacks in Russia earlier this month.

ObviouslyNotBanana , (edited )
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

Maria Zacharova (Kremlin) seems to think the most important thing right now is that the whole world condemns the attack, which I find to be a kind of weird priority since the thing just happened and we have no fucking clue what is going on.

jonne ,

You can still condemn it even if you don’t know exactly who’s behind it.

ObviouslyNotBanana ,
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

Absolutely! It wasn’t my intention to insinuate that you cannot. My point is that she was very quick to come out and demand it be done. Of course terror attacks should be condemned. All I’m saying is that the Kremlin has some weird priorities when there’s an ongoing attack. Almost like they’re trying to control the discussion and steer it towards something else.

anarchy79 ,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah not an extemely useful propaganda plot device at all then. You’re not with the terrorists, are you? You better stand up and clap your hands and stomp your feet in sympathy.

avater ,
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

Maria Zacharova (Kremlin) seems to think the most important thing right now is that the whole world condemns the attack

nah I don’t condemn anything. Either it was some pro-ukranian group (fair, bring the war to russia!), or more likely, some covert op from the fsb so that this russian cunt in charge can order a new drafting…

halva ,
@halva@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

fair, bring the war to russia

ah yes, “bringing war to russia” now means shooting innocents, because responding to terrorism with even more terrorism works so well

gotta fuckin love reddit

avater ,
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

gotta fuckin love reddit

this is lemmy.

ah yes, “bringing war to russia” now means shooting innocents, because responding to terrorism with even more terrorism works so well

Yes innocents die in war, thats what happens. It’s cruel, it’s not fair but this can happen if you attack other countries, although I don’t believe that this is caused by ukranians…

halva ,
@halva@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Yes innocents die in war, thats what happens. It’s cruel, it’s not fair but this can happen if you attack other countries

I’d love to see you say that if someone gunned down your compatriots. Or better yet, your family. Surely your condescending Realpolitik tone wouldn’t falter, right?

although I don’t believe that this is caused by ukranians…

Neither do I. ISIS has taken responsibility for this.

this is lemmy.

Quaks like a duck.

avater , (edited )
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

I’d love to see you say that if someone gunned down your compatriots. Or better yet, your family. Surely your condescending Realpolitik tone wouldn’t falter, right?

Like parts of my family we lost contact with in Ukraine because of Russia? So pardon me if I don’t have that much sympathy for Russia.

Fuck! Because of your username I now have a strong desire for some nice halva, didn’t eat some in ages. Damn you!

halva ,
@halva@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Like parts of my family we lost contact with in Ukraine because of Russia?

So have I, I don’t exactly have the government in high regards either. Quite the opposite. But the people that were at the concert hall were not the ones because of whom I lost my family. I see no point in seeking vengeance through shooting random civilians.

The only violent vengeance that would help is Putin being hung on a gas station railing. But that’s not happening any time soon, he’s probably gonna end up same as Stalin if anything.

avater ,
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

The only violent vengeance that would help is Putin being hung on a gas station railing.

I highly doubt that. Russia is mostly rotten to the core, there are too many for way too long in line with Putin. After him there would be another one and most of the people will continue to support these atrocities.

Also the Band was Piknik, quite the supportive band of the russian government so I assume most of their fans are also part of this group. Still civilians though…

halva ,
@halva@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Also the Band was Piknik, quite the supportive band of the russian government so I assume most of their fans are also part of this group

Frankly speaking, I’ve not heard of them being either supportive of the madmen in charge, nor being against them directly. The only source for the former is Zakhar Prilepin and he’s as reliable of a source as a cheap headphone wire is reliable for bridge construction, and a concert in the Crimea they’ve held in 2016 but a long time has passed since and people tend to change.

Wouldn’t count it out, though, can’t imagine being able to play at a fairly large venue in Moscow comes without concessions. By the very least, they’re required to keep their mouths shut in case they do theoretically disagree.

Jaderick ,

The article mentions the US warned of an imminent attack last month and the Russian state dismissed it. Russia also has a history of utilizing false flag operations to start shit, so I’m leaning towards that atm (before more details come out)

gravitas_deficiency ,

I mean… Putin did get into power by running false flag terrorist bombings on his own country, so there’s that angle too.

TopRamenBinLaden ,

Yea, but to stay in power all he has to do is rig the elections, so that theory doesn’t really make sense. I am not saying that a false flag attack is out of the question, but if it is a false flag, the reason for doing it is probably not to keep Putin in power.

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

Per the article, no one claimed responsibility

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

Yep, was hoping for updated news.

Wilshire ,
@Wilshire@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    NOT_RICK ,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    Source?

    Wilshire , (edited )
    @Wilshire@lemmy.world avatar

    www.cnn.com/2024/03/22/europe/…/index.html

    Update

    cbsnews.com/…/moscow-concert-hall-crocus-russia-a…

    rambling_lunatic ,

    The linked article

    NOT_RICK ,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    24 hours ago that wasn’t the case.

    rambling_lunatic ,

    Oh

    SeaJ ,

    Russia is not against doing false flag terrorist operations. That is how Putin came to power.

    uis ,

    Also Putin is not Russia

    DolphinMath ,

    It wouldn’t surprise me if this was Putin’s doing. He has a history of committing violence against him own people and blaming others.

    jonne ,

    This would have the opposite effect for Ukraine. It would cause Russians to actually rally around the flag and be more pro war. The Ukrainian strategy has been to just kill Russian combatants and hope they kill enough that Russians themselves start protesting the war on the home front.

    TransplantedSconie ,

    And blow up oil refineries that fund the war machine.

    McBB ,

    PSA. It’s Ukraine, just Ukraine. Not “The Ukraine”

    FordBeeblebrox ,

    That and Kiev/Kyiv have been enlightening since this whole thing kicked off. I’ve got a couple Russian language textbooks but think it’s time to update to some Ukrainian

    rottingleaf ,

    It’s like Cologne/Köln, doesn’t make sense as a point of contention.

    Poem_for_your_sprog ,

    Where did “the Ukraine” come from? Was it spawned from the Google?

    Lhianna ,

    IS has apparently claimed responsibility via telegram

    phoenixz ,

    US intelligence wanted them weeks ago about an impending attack

    Gunmen went in armed, met zero resistance, were busy for over an hour, no police ever showed up.

    IS claimed responsibility pretty much immediately.

    Putin ignored all that and obviously blamed Ukraine because of course.

    This is no false flag operation, Russia would never.

    anarchy79 ,
    @anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

    Poor Russians, always the target of unprovoked attacks. How did the US know beforehand anyway? Super sus!

    Diplomjodler ,

    Chechens finally making a move?

    empireOfLove2 , (edited )

    It could be. It certainly tracks with the separatists’ move into guerilla tactics later in the second Chechen war.

    Out of any time for them to start striking again, this would be it. Russia is stretched thin in manpower and supplies, and their attention is very focused on Ukraine and the West. Their ability to dump resources into the southern Caucus to tamp down a potential Chechen War #3 is definitely going to be limited. And coupled with the completion of Putin’s sham election, it sends a very strong message against Russia’s outward facade of “unity”.

    homesweethomeMrL ,

    What, is Kadyrov not a lapdog anymore? He would seem to be the first hurdle, not a later one. Of course maybe he’s dead or something, idk, i haven’t checked tiktok in a long time.

    DarkThoughts ,

    Why would they attack random civilians instead of pulling a Wagner move towards the Kreml? Russia already showed that they wouldn't have much of a resistance to show for it.

    qaz ,

    A terror attack requires a couple of guys with small arms. A move towards the Kremlin requires significantly more manpower and equipment.

    Death_Equity ,

    They might have beards, hard to tell from the footage I’ve seen.

    May be Islamic terrorism or a bad ol’ fashioned Russian false flag. I doubt Ukrainians or Ukrainian supporting people would do a random terror shooting, they like to be more targeted and the shooting was at random people. There was a foiled group of Islamic terrorists arrested earlier this month, maybe another group.

    We will have to see what Russia says.

    pancakes ,
    @pancakes@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Yeah, Ukraine hasn’t done anything civilian targeting attacks so i highly doubt it was them. They know how important optics are when it comes to getting international support.

    Aceticon ,

    Well they targetted civilian targets (the refineries) but have not targetted civilians (i.e. people).

    borari ,
    @borari@sh.itjust.works avatar

    The distinction is not between civilian targets and military targets, it is between “civilian objects” and “military objectives”. Targeting a civilian infrastructure such as refineries, and even civilian power stations can be considered valid military objectives if they make an effective contribution to military action or offer a definite military advantage. The refineries being hit by Ukraine definitely meet that definition.

    reuters.com/…/when-are-attacks-civilian-infrastru…

    Aceticon ,

    Just pointing out that what Ukraine does not attack is civilians or in your nomeclature “civilian objects”, but unlike what might be understood from the post I was responding to (because it used “civilian” rather than “civilians”), it does attack civilian infrastructure (when it is a “military objective”, as you pointed out).

    Personally I think the attacks on Russian refineries should already been happenning for a long time and I find it’s a disgrace the limitations most European countries and the US placed on Ukranian use of the weapons they provided inside Russia. Strategically it’s ridiculous that Ukraine has had to suffer its infrastructure and its Economy being destroyed whilst Russia needed not at all worry about having it’s productive and economic infrastructure degraded: since Putin doesn’t seem to care at all about human lives, until Ukraine finally made their own weapons with range enough to hit Russian Economic Targets and started targetting Russian refineries, this invasion of his had been almost risk-free.

    borari ,
    @borari@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Ah ok, I misinterpreted your post then. I thought you were insinuating that because refineries are civilian infrastructure Ukraine shouldn’t be targeting them. We’re in agreement here, don’t target actual civilians and slam as many drones as possible into refineries and any other valid targets within Russia.

    boyi ,

    Could be Chechen fringe separatist group. or Ingushetia.

    uis ,

    The Third Chechen War

    Wilshire , (edited )
    @Wilshire@lemmy.world avatar

    Warning, graphic videos

    streamable.com/c/w6wis1

    BaroqueInMind ,

    Remember, no Russian.

    sordidone ,
    @sordidone@c.im avatar

    @Wilshire @BaroqueInMind You you are a perfect example of how easy it is to program people with video games and movies lol

    BaroqueInMind ,

    I didn’t commit those crimes to the innocent people in those videos, you dipshit.

    paraphrand ,

    I think it’s more representative of someone suffering irony poisoning.

    sordidone ,
    @sordidone@c.im avatar

    @paraphrand They believe this wholeheartedly (they elaborated and deleted), that the Russians conducted a false flag attack on themselves to get support for a war they are already conducting. You could only believe it if you were completely addicted to propaganda.

    paraphrand ,

    Damn.

    feedum_sneedson ,

    I don’t know what that means but it sounds a bit unkind.

    DarkThoughts ,

    I kinda struggle to show empathy for this, after the last couple years of them doing & supporting this kind of shit in Ukraine.

    somethingchameleon ,

    Probably because your a tribalist and think everyone else is, too.

    I see it all the time and don’t expect more from you people at this point.

    DarkThoughts ,

    No, because Russians are modern day Nazis. Guilty to the bones.

    BreakDecks ,

    If you can’t show empathy for murdered civilians just because of their nationality, are you really any better? This was a concert hall, not a military base. Think about what you are tacitly endorsing here…

    ClamDrinker ,

    They said struggle - not that they couldn’t. Dont just attribute such a horrible thing based on your own reading. You can have all the empathy for the Russian people but no empathy for the Russian state. After all, the Russian state is also directly responsible for the continuous cold blooded murder of Ukrainian civilians. Not like they gave much warning on February 24th 2022, or in 2014.

    DarkThoughts ,

    Are you expecting me to tolerate the intolerant? No thanks. They don't have any empathy towards Ukrainian civilians either. They rather encourage what is happening, be it torture, rape or murder and have imperialistic ambitions that stretch far beyond Ukraine, wanting to do the same to my country and others. So why should I care? If two scumbag factions murder each other then that's a win win situation.

    BreakDecks ,

    Just to clarify, you hold ethnic hatred towards all Russian people?

    DarkThoughts ,

    Russia holds almost 200 different ethnic groups (potentially less since they ethnic cleanse their own populations in the Ukrainian meat grinder), so no. I hold hatred towards a terrorist state.

    BreakDecks ,

    That’s a lot of words to say “yes”.

    DarkThoughts ,

    Tankies once again proving they live in an alternative reality where they can just spin everything to whatever suits their confirmation bias.

    BreakDecks ,

    “Everyone who disagrees with me is a communist”, lmao.

    DarkThoughts ,

    I said Tankie, my rashist lemmy.ml dude. And my thoughts aren't a matter of your opinion either. That's literal mental gymnastics.

    BreakDecks , (edited )

    I joined this instance a long time ago back when it was one of the largest. I’ll admit that it has become more niche since the Reddit exodus. Consider being less tribalist.

    Edit: FYI, lemmy.ml is the instance run by the core lemmy devs. If that makes it a Tankie instance, then Lemmy must be Tankie software, so I trust you’ll be deleting your account and joining a Kbin instance asap.

    DarkThoughts ,

    And you feel the need to defend a literal terrorist state. Would you have done so with Nazi Germany too?

    FYI, lemmy.ml is the instance run by the core lemmy devs. If that makes it a Tankie instance, then Lemmy must be Tankie software

    The Lemmy devs are indeed literal Tankies, which is a quite well known fact. They also own lemmygrad, which is more or less the same as lemmy.ml except that it isn't pretending to be something else. lol

    so I trust you'll be deleting your account and joining a Kbin instance asap.

    I'm literally using a mbin instance right this moment. I never really used Lemmy, one reason being that the devs are Tankies. Nice collection of self owns my guy.

    BreakDecks ,

    I’m not defending the state, I’m defending its people. You need to learn the difference.

    And whatever fucking instance you’re on, you’re clearly confusing lemmy.ml with lemmygrad.ml.

    DarkThoughts ,

    I'm not defending the state, I'm defending its people. You need to learn the difference.

    Rich of you to bring "learning" into this. If you're already this ill informed about Lemmy, then it's clear that you also have no fucking idea what you're talking about in regards to the Russian populace either.
    The majority is in support of what is happening in Ukraine, there's literally intercepted calls between wives & soldiers, accepting or even encouraging them to rape, torture or even kill Ukrainian civilians, including kids. You can even go watch street interviews. Even in Moscow & St. Petersburg, which arguably are the most "moderate" Russians, you'll find the majority wanting this not just for Ukraine but the rest of the world too.

    And whatever fucking instance you're on, you're clearly confusing lemmy.ml with lemmygrad.ml.

    Mbin is a kbin fork, it's not a Lemmy instance.
    And no, I'm not confusing lemmygrad with lemmy.ml. They're both hosted by the developers and lemmy.ml is notorious for its Tankie users. Just look at how many of them are in the lemmy.ml worldnews community, spreading disinformation & direct personal attacks on regular people and their opinions. The mods literally do nothing about either, because they have the same mindset. That instance merely pretends to be something more legit, but that falls apart immediately when you actually take a look at it. It's just lemmygrad in disguise.

    somethingchameleon ,

    Videos seem busted. I hit play and they don’t play.

    qaz ,

    What was that thing at 0:20? One of them dropped something and the other one picked it up.

    EDIT: 2nd last video is very graphic

    autotldr Bot ,

    This is the best summary I could come up with:

    Russian news reports said that the assailants also used explosives, causing a massive blaze at the Crocus City Hall on the western edge of Moscow.

    Video posted on social media showed huge plumes of black smoke rising over the building.

    Russia’s state RIA Novosti news agency reported that at least three people in combat fatigues fired weapons.

    Extended rounds of gunfire could be heard on multiple videos posted by Russian media and Telegram channels.

    Another one showed a man inside the auditorium, saying the assailants set it on fire, with incessant gunshots ringing out in the background.

    Andrei Vorobyov, the governor of the Moscow region, said he was heading to the area and set up a task force to deal with the damage.

    The original article contains 202 words, the summary contains 123 words. Saved 39%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

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