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Procleus ,

“Hi! I’m the news! Today, the Russian government did a bad thing!”

—Every day, it seems

This comment isn’t meant to trivialize the action, it’s just becoming almost comical how much the Kremlin is taking a dump on human rights.

Historical_General ,
@Historical_General@lemmy.world avatar

The funny thing is, it’s the BBC reporting. That institution beholden to a party that is committed to making the issue a volatile political football.

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Call it what it actually is: genocide

Agoraphotaku ,

That’s not what that is.

OrnateLuna ,

Well it really depends on what definition of genocide you use. If genocide for you is the systematic killing of a certain group then perhaps not. However I don’t find that definition that particularly useful bc it just points to the end result of these discriminatory laws. If you use the border definition “Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.” It better highlights the complexity of genocide and how it comes to be.

I got that definition from here and it even has a list of specific actions that count as genocide.

Stan ,
@Stan@lemmywinks.com avatar

It’s called mass murder, we don’t need some etymological euphemism.

Agoraphotaku ,

I certainly agree that genocide doesn’t have to be restricted to killing. China is genociding every non Han group by enforcing mandarin and banning local schooling. But LGBT people can be any race, religion, nationality, ethnicity, culture. It is not a genocide. It’s horrible and backwards, but not genocide.

OrnateLuna ,

I find excluding LGBTQ people from a group of people which can be genocided awfully strange. Like sure unlike those groups LGBTQ people will always pop up so to speak so you can’t eradicate us like you could with cluture or ethnicity but does it actually matter when talking about genocide? What matters is the harm and the degree of harm done on to the group not which type of group it is.

notavote ,

While I am utterly against laws like this, “genocide” is too much.

What you are doing is just wiping of history of genocide done by different countries (mostly western), by using word for something that is much less than systematically killing millions and even hundreds of millions, just take this as an example: en.wikipedia.org/…/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples and than decide which word you will use.

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Pointing out the genocide of trans people doesn’t erase the history of other genocides…

bobman ,

This isn’t genocide.

Nioxic ,

So this is next step for american republicans?

Ruphies ,

You mean the previous step? It seems to be what they’re working on now

gundog48 ,

Have they actually got something in the pipeline.

Tough fucking luck. If healthcare is private in the US, it’s none of their business, the state doesn’t get a say.

lolcatnip ,

Just like they have no say over abortion, right? They won’t be held back by principles.

Compactor9679 ,

Lets hope

ZILtoid1991 ,
@ZILtoid1991@kbin.social avatar

Technically yes. Previous laws were also drafted with the help of some republican-adjacent organizations, not to mention that CitizenGo, the dhristofascist org that pushed the Ugandan gay genocide law, is being bankrolled by both Russian and US far-right adjacent oligarchs. Any free country that does not consider CitizenGo a threat to safety, liberty, and secularism, are committing suicide.

Grant_M ,
@Grant_M@lemmy.ca avatar

The global RW fascist insurgency are tied at the hip with moscovia

lucja808 ,

Can we add a rule where all articles should be archive articles to avoid incidentally paying a shitty company ad revenue. In this case an organisation that houses and protects child predators.

Lenins2ndCat ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

Sup, you might want to raise that within feedback channels within your instance. Threads like this one are seen by many instances so there’s going to be disagreement in the votes. It’s a perfectly fair thing to do though, years ago we banned direct links to the BBC in the UK left’s largest subreddit /r/greenandpleasant (i mod) for its transphobia.

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

God I miss greenandpleasant; it’s really the only thing I miss from Reddit. :(

Lenins2ndCat ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

Here was being considered as a potential lifeboat although getting people to migrate would be slow and any new community would be small, but the soft on meta position of the instance made a mess of internal thoughts on what to do.

pohui ,

Seen many ads on the BBC website lately?

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I mean bbc.com is ad-driven; bbc.co.uk isn’t.

bbc.com is the website the majority of people will access though.

lemmyshmemmy ,

Sad that so many people live under such an oppressive government. Some people have started hating Russians but I feel bad for most of them.

They’re a huge country with all kinds of resources. If the government supported the people instead of keeping them under their heel, Russia could be an advanced, wealthy country with a rich culture. Instead we got Mafia in the Kremlin.

avater ,
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

don’t make the mistake to think this is a government only problem. Sure not all Russians are pro-war or pro-putin but a majority of them supports their leader, his efforts and this mindset, they are basically fine with all that crap.

So again to blame all russians is wrong but this is also not only putins fault, a lot of russian people are also heavy involved in this kind of lifestyle.

sciawp ,

Well it’s hard to blame the people when information and propaganda are controlling their lives in such a specific way.

Manufactured consent is a very real thing

gressen ,

Do they know they’re being subject to propaganda?

notavote ,

Do Americans and Europeans?

notavote ,

I never understood why people can see it locally, but can not understand when applied to Russia and China.

Sauvandu59 ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    IHangBananas ,

    Good. Your gender can not be changed and pretending that it can be is absurd. These surgeries just create broken people.

    EnmaAi22 ,

    Your caregivers created a broken person.

    IHangBananas ,

    Amusing take.

    such_lettuce7970 ,
    @such_lettuce7970@kbin.social avatar

    The person you're responding to has also commented "You are obviously referencing hitler, a man who lead his country to the greatest heights it had see in a long time, until the western world decided he was evil."

    Their opinions are obviously worthless.

    such_lettuce7970 ,
    @such_lettuce7970@kbin.social avatar

    The person you're responding to has also commented "You are obviously referencing hitler, a man who lead his country to the greatest heights it had see in a long time, until the western world decided he was evil."

    Their opinions are obviously worthless.

    such_lettuce7970 ,
    @such_lettuce7970@kbin.social avatar

    I'm in a better position to know than you, and you're just wrong. I suspect deep down you know that though; you're just a bigot.

    IHangBananas ,

    Nope, you are wrong. There are 2 genders and the one you have can not be changed. That is a simple biological reality. You are just ignorant.

    GataZapata ,

    You are conflating sex and gender. It is you being ignorant. Not surprising from someone who thinks Hitlers nazi Germany was the height of a state though.

    Learn more https://cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/48642.html

    IHangBananas ,

    There is no confusion because there is no difference. You either think you are what you are, or you have a mental illness. No amount of mental gymnastics or surgery will change the fact that if you were born with a penis, then you are a man.

    Anybody trying to tell you that there is a difference is working an agenda and pushing the trans rhetoric which is outright dangerous to society.

    MoonManKipper ,

    I can’t tell if you’re serious or not. I hope you’re not. The fact that you’ve made two scientifically verifiable errors, gender = sex, and asserted it’s only a binary scale, suggests to me you’re not, in which case you should rethink joking about this - not everyone will get it.

    such_lettuce7970 ,
    @such_lettuce7970@kbin.social avatar

    I love that my simply existing can trigger a nazi like you so easily. You must know your anger changes nothing at all. Just a scared angry little person you are, raving and ranting.

    eskimofry ,

    Biology is more complicated than your poor attempts to draw lines and parcel up stuff nicely so your brain won’t hurt. Transgender people have existed from before you were born.

    Compactor9679 ,

    What is a woman?

    oatscoop ,

    What’s the context?

    Are we talking about “woman” as femininity in a social context? Reproductive?

    Compactor9679 ,

    I dont understand why you would need “context” to define a woman

    oatscoop , (edited )

    Same reason as why dictionaries have multiple definitions for a single word. The specific meaning of a word is dependent on the context it’s used in. Languages also evolve as we discover more about the world we live in – new words are created and old ones get updated to better fit reality.

    Sometimes people willfully ignore that in an attempt to force a discussion to a conclusion that isn’t true. They don’t like nuance or context, because those are the death of a bad argument.

    Compactor9679 ,

    So, can you tell me what a woman is?

    bobman ,

    A woman is a mature female human.

    A girl is a young female human.

    LwL ,

    …because that’s how language works?

    If someone shows me a person and asks if that person is a woman, it will depend on “whether i perceive them as a woman in that moment”

    If we’re talking about gender as a social concept in society, a woman is “a person the majority perceives as a woman”

    If we’re talking about one’s identity, a woman is simply “someone who perceives themselves as a woman”

    If we’re talking about genetics, a woman is a person with 2 x chromosomes, if we’re talking about primary sex characteristics, a woman is a persob with a vagina (or do we wanna limit it to having had one from birth? Both yes and no answers might be relevant depending on the context), etc.

    even if you take gender out of the picture entirely and pretend like someone who looks like a woman, sounds like a woman, behaves like a woman somehow isn’t a woman, you’d still need context to define it.

    It’s also a question that I have never fucking asked myself in my life in a general sense, because it’s utterly irrelevant except in very specific contexts.

    bobman ,

    Comment removed for asking ‘what is a woman?’

    The censorship on this sub is hilarious, lol.

    oatscoop ,

    Because the mods aren’t stupid and understand exactly what they were doing.

    This isn’t Reddit, and this community isn’t going to tolerate bigotry thinly disguised as “just asking questions” and “polite” behavior.

    Compactor9679 ,

    But, what is a woman?

    bobman ,

    Ok. I guess they won’t facilitate normal discussion, then.

    oatscoop ,

    It facilitates good faith discussion. Sealioning isn’t that.

    bobman ,

    No it doesn’t. It facilitates and echo chamber where people are literally afraid to ask questions to achieve a greater understanding.

    such_lettuce7970 ,
    @such_lettuce7970@kbin.social avatar

    Generally speaking, usually someone who is a mature female. However, some females turn out to be trans men, and some males turn out to be trans women (hence, "trans").

    Glad I could clear that up for you, not that I'm dumb enough to think you were asking in good faith. It's pretty easy to answer when you don't need everything to be laid out in black and white terms because you can't handle the diversity of the human experience.

    match ,
    @match@pawb.social avatar

    explain why you keep jerking off to trans porn then

    IHangBananas ,

    That is an interesting attempt at an insult, not really sure where it came from.

    seliaste ,
    @seliaste@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Stfu

    JeffCraig ,

    Ok so there you go. If you ever need to help someone understand why their political viewpoints are bad, you can just show them what Russia is doing.

    Skellybones ,
    @Skellybones@lemmy.world avatar

    No they’ll defend them to the bitter end for some reason

    feedum_sneedson ,

    That’s some real “Hitler was a vegetarian” logic there.

    histy ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    anteaters ,

    When in crisis just choose a minority to shit on and the majority will be happier.

    Shardikprime ,

    That’s the point they are so few people why care either way

    TheRealBob ,
    @TheRealBob@lemmy.world avatar

    I legitimately can’t imagine how awful it must be to be trans in Russia. Well, pretty much anywhere really, now that I think of it. Trans people just can’t catch a break. I feel so bad for them.

    VisualCicada ,

    Like you said, I think it’s pretty awful in the majority of countries with few exceptions

    RippleEffect ,

    I imagine this is why many people that might consider it just dont. It’s easier sometimes to just do the expected things at the expense of one’s self.

    DreamerOfImprobableDreams ,

    True, but there are definitely places where it's much better to be trans than others, and Russia's near the bottom of the pack.

    Quill7513 ,

    Russia is a tough place to be human

    electrogamerman ,

    Unless you are a white straight russian man

    feedum_sneedson ,

    I’m sure all the teenagers getting drafted to die in Ukraine agree!

    cupcakezealot ,
    @cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    And even then, if you don’t support Putin you’ll probably be accidently falling out a window.

    meldrik ,

    It’s also tough being a Slavic Russian, but still worse to be of any other ethnic group in Russia I think.

    ilfi ,
    @ilfi@lemmy.world avatar

    Not really, there are no laws prohibiting any ethnicity to work in the government. Ethnic language and culture is allowed and supported in these ethnic regions.

    meldrik ,

    aljazeera.com/…/russia-putin-is-using-ethnic-mino…

    ilfi ,
    @ilfi@lemmy.world avatar

    Official Russian sources stated that draft took place mainly in central and western regions. And well, Victoria Maladaeva is stating all this information while living abroad, so I wouldn’t trust her.

    lolcatnip ,

    Oh cool, so there’s no racism in Russia, then? /s

    such_lettuce7970 ,
    @such_lettuce7970@kbin.social avatar

    Here in Ontario is pretty good for me as a trans person, well at least in terms of my being trans. I feel fortunate.

    floofloof ,

    I’m glad you feel comfortable in Ontario. I hope we can keep it that way here.

    CyPhD ,

    You and me both, fam. I can’t even imagine how it must be for a trans person to live in the US south - it is just mind-baffling to think of what it must be in other countries that barely even recognize any of those rights or are even outright hostile to the identity.

    NakariLexfortaine ,

    I can’t speak for every trans person in the South, but for me, it’s pretty fucking awful.

    Part of it is my area(lot of old white conservatives). They really don’t give a fuck. I have had to listen to 10 minute rants about gender politics because they want a pink gender reveal cake.

    We did multiple cake variations for Valentine’s. All stick figures. We “dared” to put rainbows on a couple of them. We had to get rid of them because people complained about STICK FIGURES under rainbows.

    I have to make sure I’m in a safe place to even begin feeling like myself.

    vendetta ,

    most of russian people doesn’t support lgbt whatsoever

    and it’s prohibited by law to promote lgbt

    BettyWhiteInHD ,
    @BettyWhiteInHD@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Lenins2ndCat ,
    @Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

    Unfortunately they’re right though. The majority of the population is.

    The fact that it’s prohibited by law certainly contributes to that though, and actively preventing any attempt to change it is politically popular.

    mojo ,

    I have no idea what it’s like to have gender dysphoria, but I’d imagine they’d just not come out. But idk how that works, or if they’re willing to get bullied by like every Russian ever.

    seliaste ,
    @seliaste@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    It can affect everyone differently but not coming out and getting things done can lead to terrible mental health and depression, leading to suicide. Transitionning is the only way we know to supress those symptoms.

    sickpusy ,

    That isn’t entirely true. Transitioning is very recent idea. Being trans and transitioning is also intimately tied to pharma capital complex.

    There were many ways of being queer and trans which have been erased over time. Simply consider the native American stuff and also Indian motions of hijra.

    Though not this precise point a good text to read : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testo_Junkie

    oatscoop ,

    Probably because those people didn’t have a choice due to the limitations of medicine.

    Same as how treatment for depression was “suck it up or abuse drugs/alcohol” and the treatment for serious trauma was “die”.

    sickpusy ,

    Again depression is a modern conception which is a symptom of a society that has erased notions such as melancholia and mourning.

    Reference: books.google.co.in/books/…/The_New_Black.html?id=…

    The point is that these new ideas pretend that they are all neutral and they have arrived at the truth. In the process the constitue their own subjects who are interpellated in these frames. The people who believe and fall for this new discourses are produced by these new technological and scientific advances. It isn’t a truth waiting to be grasped out there.

    The point is that alternative routes of making meaning of these phenonemon have been erased and other alternative pathways are blocked by suggesting that this is it.

    feedum_sneedson ,

    Alienated not only from the products of our labour, but increasingly the original tool of our labour; that is, our bodies. That’s the likely cause of the ideological cart overtaking the materialist horse when it comes to gender. At least, in my opinion.

    sickpusy ,

    You put it well. Thank you for that clarification.

    Historical_General , (edited )
    @Historical_General@lemmy.world avatar

    How about we decide to do the sensible thing and take advantage of modern medicine??

    sickpusy ,

    Yes. Not against modern medicine. While you are at it please also look into the pharma complex which oversells modern medicine.

    Historical_General ,
    @Historical_General@lemmy.world avatar

    Of course, but that’s the case for medicine in the US across the board. It’s not so much a problem elsewhere.

    lolcatnip ,

    Hey, germs are a modern conception, too, so I guess it would be fine with you if surgeons stopped washing their hands.

    sickpusy , (edited )

    There is no analogical reasoning between germ theory and psychiatry. Psychiatry chooses to individualize a problem in however coded manners at the expense of the social. I am honestly quite astounded by the response that transitioning is the only way to be trans nowadays. This echoes the overall codification of queer behaviour the world over where the normative western queer body language now dominated. If you don’t behave or are like them you are not queer.

    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Hormonal transition for those who want it is scientifically proven to be beneficial in improving in quality of life and decreasing suicidality.

    Queer people have always existed in many forms. Estrogen replacement therapy and testosterone replacement therapy have only existed for the last hundred years. But I would make no mistake that trans people are a real thing and for many of us who are binary the desire is not “i want to be perceived as genderqueer” rather it is “i want to be perceived as a man/woman”. Youre also definitely wrong that those things have been erased. Two spirit people and hijira still exist. And non-binary people do as well, who live entirely new lives made up of entirely new queer experiences.

    Which is great, and I’m happy people are able to live how they want to. I’m just a woman though. I’m just a binary transgender woman. In a perfect world I would never transition at all, I would have just been assigned female at birth. To that end I’ve been taking estrogen and t blockers for over 8 years. I had surgery so that I now have a vagina. I didn’t do those things because of ‘pharma capital complex’, I did them because this makes me happy. Because I am happy with myself and my body like this. I would not be happy if I did not have typical hormone levels for women, I would not be happy if I still had a penis. No one made my want those things, I have spent my entire life since I was a young child wishing for those things. And now that I have them I have the opportunity for a happy life. I would likely not have lived this long had I been born before the advent of medical transition. Whatever life I would’ve lived would have been absolutely miserable and likely ended by my own hand once I could no longer numb myself to my own skin.

    such_lettuce7970 ,
    @such_lettuce7970@kbin.social avatar

    Couldn't have said it better myself <3

    Snowpix ,
    @Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

    Lots of transphobes and bad actors spamming downvotes too. Yet too cowardly to actually have a response.

    cupcakezealot ,
    @cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    For the record, I tried not coming out for about 25 years and it wrecked my mental health and increased my depression. :(

    JuliusSeizure ,

    Being mentally ill sucks anywhere.

    Jonna ,

    At the very best that’s an “all lives matter” kind of comment. But if you’re implying that being trans is mental illness, FO.

    eupraxia ,
    @eupraxia@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    It’s pretty damn great where I am, where I have access to medical and mental care. Just sucks that some think they know what to do with us better than we do.

    TiredCapybara ,

    I really hope some countries will provide asylum, but I doubt that

    theacharnian ,
    @theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

    This reminds me how during the later stages of WW2, while the Nazis were losing the war, they kept spending resources on the Holocaust.

    AllBlue22 ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Chetzemoka , (edited )

    It's not. It's a completely historical comparison. Delusional is pretending like the very clear repeat of history isn't happening because the idea of modern Nazis makes you uncomfortable.

    "Adolf Hitler was named chancellor on January 30, 1933, and enacted policies to rid Germany of Lebensunwertes Leben, or “lives unworthy of living.” What began as a sterilization program ultimately led to the extermination of millions of Jews, Roma, Soviet and Polish citizens—and homosexuals and transgender people.

    When the Nazis came for the [Institute for Sexual Research] on May 6, 1933, Hirschfeld was out of the country. Giese fled with what little he could. Troops swarmed the building, carrying off a bronze bust of Hirschfeld and all his precious books, which they piled in the street. Soon a towerlike bonfire engulfed more than 20,000 books, some of them rare copies that had helped provide a historiography for nonconforming people.

    The carnage flickered over German newsreels. It was among the first and largest of the Nazi book burnings. Nazi youth, students and soldiers participated in the destruction, while voiceovers of the footage declared that the German state had committed “the intellectual garbage of the past” to the flames. The collection was irreplaceable."

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/

    schroedingershat ,

    It’s not a godwin if they are literally nazis performing a literal genocide whilst literally losing a war of agression in Europe.

    SpaceCowboy ,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    Yeah I think we’re gonna have to pause the godwin thing for a while. Too many people in power running plays right out of the Nazi playbook nowadays. A stigma against comparisons to Nazis isn’t preventing discussions from degenerating to name calling (the original intent of the rule) it’s just preventing conversation from happening.

    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    They literally said that letting trans people transition and get gender reassignment surgery will “destroy our nation”. Its literally fascist rhetoric. They’re banning changing your gender on documents, something only 3000 people have done since 2016. The country has 143 million people.

    This is genocidal rhetoric. This is a transparent attempt to promote conspiracies against trans people intending for average people to think “trans people are going to destroy my society” and “trans people are a threat to families and children”. It’s literal fascist genocidal rhetoric.

    Ignacio ,

    And tankies feel comfortable with that way of thinking. BuT nO, uKrOnAzIs.

    Blamemeta ,

    Why are the so many people on this site white washing Nazis? It seems so concetrated here.

    theacharnian ,
    @theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’m very curious about what it is that you think the word “whitewash” means.

    skates ,

    I googled it after reading your comment cause I realized I didn’t actually know what it meant.

    There were a few definitions but I’m guessing this is the one the person you’re replying to meant:

    “deliberately attempt to conceal unpleasant or incriminating facts about (someone or something).”

    Idk why they thought someone calling out Nazis for spending resources on the Holocaust up until the very end meant that people are whitewashing Nazis though.

    peanut_boy ,

    I think the comparison is, in the eyes of Blamemeta, between a thing that is very severe and a thing that is somewhat less severe. If that’s the case, equating the two must either exaggerate the severity of the latter or minimize the severity of the former. So I think Blamemeta is trying to say that it cheapens the severity of the holocaust, not realizing that the word “whitewash” implies that it’s deliberate, i.e. that Acharnien also agrees that Russia’s law isn’t a big deal and want to use it to downplay the holocaust. But I think it’s more likely they just meant to say “cheapens” instead of “whitewash” lol

    theacharnian ,
    @theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

    I am not equating though, I just wrote “this reminds me”. They’re being dramatic.

    Blamemeta ,

    Making something seem not-as-bad. Nazis literally genocided 11 million people. Russia is being awful about medical care. Theres an ocean of difference.

    theacharnian , (edited )
    @theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

    – Hey those kids are good at playing soccer very defensively. It kind of reminds me of when Greece got the 2004 Euro Cup under the management of Otto Rehhagel.

    – How dare you compare the two things. One was a major international professional soccer competition, that shaped a country’s sports for a generation, the other one is just some shitty kids kicking a deflated ball in a school yard.

    – Well, yea, sure but they do both win by playing quite defensively. Noticing that takes nothing away from Greece’s epic historic win, what kind of idiot would think that?

    Aux ,

    You’re whitewashing Putin’s regime right now.

    gundog48 ,

    Sorry, what? Are you saying that this comment about the holocaust makes the Nazis look… better?

    Blamemeta ,

    More like equating the holocaust to bad medical care is trying to make the holocaust look better. Im exergeratting of course, but im hate when people call everything nazi.

    theacharnian ,
    @theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

    I didn’t “equate” anything. I said that one thing reminds me of another.

    SpaceCowboy ,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    The scary thing is that it actually wasn’t a lot of resources. Most genocides in history have happened in places that aren’t industrialized. In those cases, yeah it did take a significant amount of resources and involves a lot of people.

    For an an industrialized country, genocide on the scale the Nazis did is actually a tiny percentage of the resources available. Think about how many people you can put in just one train. Even if that train runs just a few times a day, well… there’s some extremely dark mathematics about it.

    The politics of hate is so incredibly dangerous in an industrialized country. Industrialized genocide can kill millions without impacting other priorities.

    Scary to think about.

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