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The Google antitrust ruling could be an existential threat to the future of Firefox | Financials show 86% of Mozilla's revenue came from the agreement keeping Google as Firefox's default search engine

Mozilla has a close relationship with Google, as most of Firefox’s revenue comes from the agreement keeping Google as the browser’s default search engine. However, the search giant is now officially a monopoly, and a future court decision could have an unprecedented impact on Mozilla’s ability to keep things “business as usual.”

United States District Judge Amit Mehta found Google guilty of building a monopolistic position in web search. The Mountain View corporation spent billions of dollars becoming the leading search provider for computing platforms and web browsers on PC and mobile devices.

Most of the $21 billion spent went to Apple in exchange for setting Google as the default search engine on iPhone, iPad, and Mac systems. The judge will now need to decide on a penalty for the company’s actions, including the potential of forcing Google to stop payments to its search “partners completely,” which could have dire consequences for smaller companies like Mozilla.

Its most recent financials show Mozilla gets $510 million out of its $593 million in total revenue from its Google partnership. This precarious financial position is a side effect of its deal with Alphabet, which made Google the search engine default for newer Firefox installations.

The open-source web browser has experienced a steady market share decline over the past few years. Meanwhile, Mozilla management was paid millions to develop a new “vision” of a theoretical future with AI chatbots. Mozilla Corporation, the wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation managing Firefox development, could find itself in a severe struggle for revenue if Google’s money suddenly dried up.

LouNeko ,

I would stand behind the idea of splitting Google in it’s seperate branches with no shared assets. Basically Google search becomes is seperate corporation, Google AI, Google Webservices, Google Ad Services, YouTube. etc… This will hopefully undo some of the webs enshitification since now the essentially most powerful company on the web has to actually offer good product for profit instead of compensating bad product with more profitable one.

BrightCandle ,

That doesn’t produce any practical competition however. Some vertical splitting of the search business seems reasonable so we end up with multiple companies doing search out of it.

BradleyUffner ,

How exactly would you break up search? You can’t really do it geographically like the Bells.

Obi ,
@Obi@sopuli.xyz avatar

If if wasn’t American, I’d say nationalise it. Maybe at some point we’ll need some kind of international version of nationalising.

wanderingmagus ,

Have a UN agency run it?

jakob22 ,

In a perfect world

Omniraptor ,

played a neat game that’s basically a choose your own adventure where you play as president Bernie Sanders. It has this as a possible thing to do.

play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mollein…

nomadjoanne ,

Ah yes, cos that would lead to stellar leadership in Mozilla.

Etterra ,

Good. Open source that shit.

TheGrandNagus ,

I’m not sure what you mean, Firefox is already open source?

explodicle ,

Well then double open source it! No excuses!

yuki2501 ,
@yuki2501@lemmy.world avatar

It’s a threat to the Mozilla CORPORATION, not the Mozilla Foundation nor the browser.

Nothing to be really scared about. Move along.

bloup ,

why do you think the Mozilla corporation losing 86% of their revenue wouldn’t hurt the Firefox browser?

SturgiesYrFase ,
@SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml avatar

Well, only way I can figure it wouldn’t effect the foundation, is that the corporation is a wholly owned subsidiary of the foundation, presumably this is to protect the foundation financially and legally from anything that might happen to the corporation.

Tja ,

There was a well sourced video a few months ago that showed where the money is going. Long story short, not into development, for the most part.

bighi ,

Mozilla gotta do something.

And based on their actions on recent years, that something is probably going to be: 1) firing more developers, and 2) increasing the compensation of their CEO.

zaphod ,

I’ll add:

  1. Buying some random companies
SirEDCaLot ,
  1. Change the UI and mess with plugins.
  2. More bloat in the install package that should be optional plugins.
Sabata11792 ,
  1. Offer advertisers user data.
SirEDCaLot ,

(for absurdly small amounts of money)

rob_t_firefly ,
@rob_t_firefly@lemmy.world avatar

Also forcing in AI somehow.

SirEDCaLot ,

Spend millions developing the AI with no real goal of what it will do or why it should exist… (Seems to be the current trend these days)

zecg ,
@zecg@lemmy.world avatar

I use only Firefox / Fennec, but fuck Mozilla. The obscene amounts they paid their CEO for stupid decisions, their shitty Pocket acquisition, regressions such as saving page as pdf simply disappearing on mobile. Let that rotten corporation die, the code is open source, someone will do a Gecko browser.

Supermariofan67 ,

I don’t think it’s quite as simple as someone just forking it. Realistically, a browser is an extremely complex piece of software that requires a lot of organizational effort to maintain, deal with security issues, etc. Pretty much every other piece of software on a similar scale I can think of (the kernel, KDE, Blender, Libreoffice) has some sort of organization behind it with at least some amount of officially paid work. All the major forks of Firefox or chromium follow quite closely to upstream for this reason (which is also why I’m skeptical of Brave’s ability to maintain manifest v2 long term, despite their probably genuine best efforts to do so).

I do wish that Firefox were developed and funded by an organization specifically dedicated to developing it. This could of course happen if Mozilla dies. But that’s going to require someone starting it, which is not at all a small or cheap task.

I could also see a future where Oracle or IBM buys it 😂🤡

Tja ,

Firefox enterprise edition, now with Lotus integration!

leanleft ,
@leanleft@lemmy.ml avatar
SamB ,

It’s strange how the Internet has been flooded by this news. Like leave Google alone or Firefox gets it. Very strategic use of the media might I say.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

This article doesn’t even bother to explain the connection. I don’t get it if I’m honest.

WldFyre ,

Its most recent financials show Mozilla gets $510 million out of its $593 million in total revenue from its Google partnership.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

Obviously. Why is that threatened by this antitrust ruling ?

WldFyre ,

United States District Judge Amit Mehta found Google guilty of building a monopolistic position in web search. The Mountain View corporation spent billions of dollars becoming the leading search provider for computing platforms and web browsers on PC and mobile devices

JackbyDev ,

Wtf, no? It’s saying “Hey, it’s great that you’re angry about Google search being a monopoly, but you need to be aware and ready that this ruling could further cement their browser monopoly.”

erwan ,

Good, Baker can go find an other x millions salary elsewhere because it’s necessary for her family (as she said in an interview), and Firefox can become a community project again that still pays salary to actual developers but without the expensive bullshitting C-suite.

DirkMcCallahan ,

Fuck.

Affidavit ,

I wonder how much of their income actually goes towards development. At a glance, it seems a great deal of unnecessary administrative bloat has been added to Mozilla.

I honestly don’t see why a browser company needs to be so large (>700 employees).

Not that I want people to lose their jobs, it just seems unnecessary.

stoly ,

They do more. They are also a vpn, and they are standing up new services.

SkyeStarfall ,

Well, a browser is a massive piece of software, especially if you include the development of a render engine as Firefox does

Web standards evolve constantly, you need to keep up somehow, together with optimizations, bug fixing, patching of security vulnerabilities, etc

TheGrandNagus ,

Indeed. People severely underestimate how complex and costly developing a browser and web renderer is.

In many ways it’s far more complex than OS development.

Firefox cannot get by on user donations alone. Mozilla needs a way to generate revenue, but nobody wants Mozilla to commercialise in any way. They’re stuck between a rock and a hard place.

mke ,

And a JS engine! Firefox uses Mozilla’s SpiderMonkey, unlike every other (Blink/chrome-family) browser which uses Google’s V8.

barsoap ,

Mozilla is not a browser producer, it’s a general internet charity that earns money by producing a browser. Most of their income goes to charity and reserves of which they have about 1bn – roughly four times as much as wikipedia just for a sense of scale, wikipedia doesn’t do any business deals to get at cash but instead does annoying donation drives.

They could scale down significantly while still keeping firefox development ongoing, they probably wouldn’t have much issue finding enough donations to fund development, but the strategy seems to be building reserves and diversify commercial income, things like the revenue share they get from pocket for sending people to ad-ridden pages.

When you’re currently donating to Mozilla you’re not donating towards Firefox: Mozilla-the-company can’t receive funds from Mozilla-the-foundation, those donations are going to charity work.


And, to make this clear: None of this is a grand revelation, or new, or outrageous, it’s basically always been like that and it’s always been a perfectly proper way to run a charity. Most of the recent pushbacks comes from people hating that Mozilla funds stuff like getting women into STEM, being outraged that the wider Mozilla community is not keen on having a CEO which opposes gay marriage (very staunchly so), etc.

mke ,

Oh my, could you share more information about the homophobic CEO thing?

barsoap , (edited )

Search for Brendan Eich, nowadays he’s running the Brave browser.

mke ,

Oh, him. Thanks.

nowadays he’s running the Brave browser.

Yeah, that’s what I knew him from. Figures he would go on to lead a browser infamous for its controversies.

Cornelius_Wangenheim ,

There’s a reason why every other browser maker has given up and adopted Chromium. It’s not easy to support a browser and rendering engine across half a dozen OSes while keeping it secure, performant and stable.

VanHalbgott ,

Why can’t Firefox use DuckDuckGo instead?

foofy ,

Firefox can do without Google being the default fine. What they can’t do without is all the money that Google pays them to make Google be the default.

ech ,

The problem isn’t the search engine - it’s the money.

dingdongmetacarples ,

The problem is would DDG pay them $500 million to be the default. That’s doubtful.

FeelThePower ,

situational irony

cmysmiaczxotoy ,

I needed, I would pay $5 per month in perpetuity for access to Firefox. Fuck google

cybersandwich ,

There are dozens of us!!

LoKout ,

At least 2, at the moment.

stoly ,

Three

ThePancake ,

Four… maybe even $10/mo after the manifest v3 chaos hits in full force.

MadBigote ,

Exchange rate is a bitch, but id chime in and do my part as well.

kakito69 ,

You’d need a hundred million people sign up for that $5 subscription to make up for Google’s bribe.

brad_troika ,

You mean 510 million divided by 12. That’s “only” 42.5.

deleteme ,

Your math is off. It would take 8.5 million people donating $5 a month, to equal the 510 million a year from Google.

My math (please correct me if I am wrong):

$510 million / 1 year

$ X / 1 month?

$510 million / 12 months = $42.5 million / 1 month

$42.5 million / $5 per person a month = 8.5 million people a month

kakito69 ,

You’re right. My European ass sees revenue and salaries as monthly

uranibaba ,

Is it not

5 x 12 = 60

$510 000 000 / $60 = 850 000

$60 is one year of subscription for if user.

850 000 users need to pay 60 dollar per year to amount to $510 000 000.

(Or 510 000 000/5 = 10 200 000 users per month to reach the same amount monthly.)

theherk ,

510 / 60 = 8.5

uranibaba ,

I see that I missed a zero (510000000/60=8 500 000). That numbers didn’t seem plausible when I did the calculation.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yup, and I could do $5/month, perhaps more if they really seemed to need it. I don’t know if there are 8-9M, but maybe.

They really should be working on improving their revenue streams. I think they should work on privacy-friendly transactions, like a Mozilla Pay where I put money into some kind of bucket, then purchases are paid out of that bucket. The system would work on something like GNU Taler, and they’d take a small cut for money going into and out of the system (or transactions within the system). I could use those funds to pay for online services, avoiding ads, tips to people online, or Mozilla services.

merc ,

Also, Mozilla says that it spends only $220M on software development expenses, so if 100% of the money went to that it would only require 3.7 million people paying $5 per month.

But, IMO, if the Google money spigot is turned off, it might be that other companies that rely on web browsers (Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Microsoft, etc.) will want to spend at least a few tens of millions on Firefox. That would mean that end-users wouldn’t need to support the entire cost of developing it.

Right now, everyone except Apple uses Blink which is a Google project tied to Chrome. Since Google has been found to have been illegally abusing their monopoly, the status of Chromium / Blink has to be uncertain. It would be smart insurance for these companies to ensure that Firefox doesn’t go away in case something happens to Blink.

aggelalex ,

Everybody forgets that if chrome and chromium breaks away from Google because of this ruling, it’s going to have the same issues as Firefox, if not worse because it’s an arguably worse product. The ruling has been pronounced, but what will happen because of it is yet to be defined.

ShepherdPie ,

Why would Chrome/chromium break away? Isn’t this just about the search engine side of things? There’s no need to dump Chrome if all they need to do is drop themselves as the default search engine.

aggelalex ,
Tyfud ,

That’s not it at all. The issue is funding Mozilla. Having it as the default search engine is something google currently pays them for the right for. If the DOJ says that’s anti-trust practices, then Google stops paying Mozilla for that right, and 80% of Mozilla’s funding dries up overnight.

Scrollone ,

I feel like the real problem is Google paying Apple, since they’re both major players, not Google paying Mozilla. Firefox is not a major player at all (unluckily…)

Scrollone ,

I feel like the real problem is Google paying Apple, since they’re both major players, not Google paying Mozilla. Firefox is not a major player at all (unluckily…)

mke , (edited )

I believe I remember reading that Apple gets a share of the money from google searches by their users, too. That’s an absurd amount of incentive to sit on your ass and never try anything different.

I’ll try to add a source here, later.

Edit: it is now later:

An expert witness for Google let slip that the company shares 36 percent of search ad revenue from Safari with Apple.

Source - The Verge article

toasteecup ,

I would pay money to keep Firefox foss for other people who can’t afford to do so.

MCasq_qsaCJ_234 ,

Don’t worry, we have a possible replacement for Mozilla, meet Ladybird

aviation_hydrated ,

This project looks very cool, I hope it comes to be

FierySpectre ,

2026 though…

demizerone ,

That’s a pretty good date. Browsers are monstrous software projects. I just wish it was written in a memory safer language. Oh well.

doodledup ,

So who’s going to fund that who can’t fund Mozilla Foundation?

MCasq_qsaCJ_234 ,

Do you mean the other software projects or the other non-software projects?

If the former, there is the Open Technology Fund (OTF), but it is affiliated with USAGM which is part of the government.

demizerone ,

At least with this project when you donate it goes to direct development.

xavier666 ,

Zuckerberg : Heyyy…

coolmojo ,

Ladybird can set Google search as the default for a donation from Google. /s

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