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drmoose ,

Every day it feels like we’re getting closer to battery revolution. It really makes you wonder how different the world will be once we have these incredible batteries actually working at consumer level.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Every day it feels like we’re getting closer to battery revolution.

It’s been “every day” for as long as I can remember. Some new world-changing battery tech is right around the corner, but never manages to appear in consumer vehicles…

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

Battery tech has still come a long way since say 10 years ago, even though the “next gen” stuff hasn’t made it to scaled production. Looks like the is the beginning of scaled production, though.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Looks like this is the beginning of scaled production, though.

Production is a tiny link in the supply chain.

According to the article they’ve sent them to manufacturers for testing and that’s it.

Even if they were able to make them they’d still be impossibly expensive for decades, as the implications of such a technology would be gargantuan.

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

Nah, see the battery density graph here. Batteries have made great progress already, and it’s accelerating because suddenly there are trillions of dollars on the line for anyone that can make big strides in battery technology.

helenslunch , (edited )
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Nah, see the battery density graph

Yah, I see your battery density graph and the batteries in question would blow a hole in that chart:

Samsung’s oxide solid-state battery technology boasts an energy density of 500 Wh/kg, nearly double the 270 Wh/kg density of mainstream EV batteries.

That’s without even getting into the charging rates.

suddenly there are trillions of dollars on the line for anyone that can make big strides in battery technology.

What makes you think that’s “sudden”?

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

Yah, I see your battery density graph and the batteries in question would blow a hole in that chart, and several charts above it.

I’m not sure if we are looking at the same chart. The chart goes up to 500 Wh/kg, the same as this new Samsung battery as per the original article. It’s may well be the same battery that gives the chart that value, but notice the years prior it gets higher and higher up to that value.

It might be 10 years away from being the mainstream battery but the battery technology that was 10 years away 9 years ago is almost here.

What makes you think that’s “sudden”?

I was meaning how EVs created a consumer market for huge batteries where prior to that the biggest battery in your house might have been a power tool. But you’re right, there was a premium market for emerging battery tech and it increases along a scale like anything else.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

It might be 10 years away from being the mainstream battery

Yes, that was my point, thank you.

asdfasdfasdf ,

The difference is this is actually shipping to manufacturers.

Gradually_Adjusting ,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

Solid state batteries are already being produced at scale. It’s happening.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

…for testing.

GetOffMyLan ,

Battery tech is constantly having huge breakthroughs. They are just come in small steps.

I mean a smart phone is literally a battery powered computer. It’s absolutely astounding compared to what we had 10/20 years ago.

HerrBeter ,

Only thing I’m upset with is that we get more battery capacity, but not longer battery time. I want to clock my phone down to save power, but that’s not allowed.

vaionko ,

Most phones have some sort of “Ultra power saving” mode that gives a lot of battery life.

Nycto ,

It’s absolutely allowed.

It’s not as good as previous versions but I am running stock android and I have wifi power saving and phone (background) power saving modes available. I just checked and the estimate of time until zero percent battery goes from 22 hours to 28 hours with the node that limits backup processes, and that is with 59% on the battery.

There was a power save mode on my old phone that made everything grey screen and stuff that was way better. I think I enabled it for a camping trip once and used like 20% battery in 3 days.

GetOffMyLan ,

Yeah the more power phones have available the more manufacturers use.

It’s why I miss replaceable batteries.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Battery tech is constantly having huge breakthroughs. They are just come in small steps.

My guy, those are opposite things…

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

They’re coming off a pilot production line and have shipped to vehicle manufacturers to see if they want to incorporate these into upcoming models.

Problem will be the price for the first run of this tech. They’re targeting “ultra premium” vehicles until they can scale and optimize manufacturing.

merari42 ,

The market will segment away from the current tech anyway. CATL Sodium-ion with comparatively low densities but also extremely low prices per kWh will likely win the low-end market and the market for stationary solutions. This is just due to the much lower resource costs. The high-end will be up for things like this battery by Samsung (or other comparable pilot products). The current technology will likely be in a weird middle spot.

Johnnyvibrant ,

Can you imagine not having the constant traffic noise played into your ears like tinnitus, being able to maybe actually breathe the oxygen nature provides. That’s probably gonna be what it will be like. But still, ev are just a stop gap, more privately owned cars isn’t the solution in my humble opinion, it is a start towards it.

BastingChemina ,

About noise, above 30km/h electric cars are as noisy as gas powered one.

It’s better but not the panacea either.

vividspecter ,

Solution: 30km/h speed limit in cities, which is a good idea anyway for safety reasons.

BastingChemina ,

Yes, it’s better for safety and health reason.

Plus 30km/h is in the speed range of bikes, so it become much more accessible to bike around in the city and more people start to do it.

Corvid ,

It’s 30mph not kph. City streets should be limited to 20mph anyway.

superkret ,

The traffic noise will stay the same, from tires, honking and some fake engine noise they’ll mandate for pedestrian safety.
Do yourself a favor and spend some time in an area without cars. It’s amazing what it does to your mental health.

Imperor ,
@Imperor@lemmy.world avatar

Totally with you, but tire dust is one of the major pollution particles from cars, maybe even the worst AFAIK. That, sadly will not go away but it is still leagues more desireable to have everything on electric than fossil fuel. Can’t have perfect stop good enough.

Mihies ,

Yep, tire pollution is even worse with EVs due to their weight. But overall it’s still much better as you said.

vividspecter ,

It would help if cars went back to a reasonable size and not the absurdly large monstrosities that dominate the market today.

Serinus ,

It’s even hard to find an EV sedan. There are like 3 models under $70k. Everyone wants to make SUVs instead.

SlopppyEngineer ,

The tire noise EVs make is about the same as an ICE car at about 50 kph (30 mph) so it doesn’t make much difference on busy roads. It does make a huge difference in slow traffic.

porous_grey_matter ,

Building massive production capacity to replace all the cars just locks us in to having cars though

P1nkman ,

I waited 4 years for battery technology to get better before bring an EV last year. The “battery revolution”, with all the news being generated weekly for years, is still not here. I don’t give a fuck about theoretical battery range - give me the actual battery in a car, THEN it’s newsworthy. Now it’s all just theoretical, which we consumers can do fuck all about.

Serinus ,

And that’s the thing. As much as we’ve gotten used to it over the past hundred years, progress is absolutely not automatic.

If people don’t buy the current stuff, it reduces the chance of advancement for that tech. Most things will only get better if people are buying the current versions.

We’ve had solar power tech for 50 years. Solar initiatives under Carter were actually pretty good. You know who killed it, or I expect we’d have solar on most roofs today.

I recently visited Switzerland, and the amount of rooftop solar there was insane.

(Solar is of course closely linked to battery tech.)

MTK ,

One important thing to remember is the that battery capacity is unlikely to improve anymore, we should mostly improve charging, lifespan, safety, etc.

I doubt that we will ever see batteries that have much more capacity per weight than what we have now.

asbestos ,
@asbestos@lemmy.world avatar

What a piece of shit title.

Nurse_Robot ,

Care to add some substance to your complaint? I thought it was informative and succinct

asbestos ,
@asbestos@lemmy.world avatar

It would be way more informative if we got battery cycles instead of years, density instead of “600 miles” and max charging power instead of minutes.
Off topic but I learned a new word, “succinct”, thanks!

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

I agree with your comment, but also the title makes sense to me as a non battery person

asbestos ,
@asbestos@lemmy.world avatar

Actually yeah, I came out unnecessarily harsh

ABCDE ,

Battery cycles doesn’t mean much to a layperson, years, or average years, does.

metaStatic ,

relevant xkcd

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

I get the cost, but it should be an option to upgrade any current EV to this new style battery.

AmbiguousProps , (edited )

It’s not needed in today’s EVs. Things should be upgradable yes, but it’s not necessary to replace current existing lithium batteries with this and doing so would probably do more harm than good. The ones we have already outlast the vehicle’s lifespan, and go further than a tank of gas.

We don’t even know how to recycle these new types, at least we’ve made some headway with the current gen packs.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

I’m thinking less in terms of lifespan and more in terms of range and charging time.

You shouldn’t have to upgrade your entire car to get a 600 mile range and 9 minute charge time if all that’s needed is better battery tech.

AmbiguousProps ,

Two questions if that’s the reasoning: how often are you driving 600 let alone 300 miles? How often are you out of range of charging, if at all? Charging at fast chargers already only takes 20 minutes, the same amount it takes to pee and get a drink.

Charging at home makes range not matter. It’s not gas, you’re just always charged up. You don’t want to sit at 100% anyway, because again, it’s not gas.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

The object is to get people to give up gas cars, you do that by providing a better range and a “refill” time roughly equivalent with sitting at a gas pump.

And, yeah, vast areas of the country do not yet have good access to charging stations:

axios.com/…/charging-deserts-evs-electric-cars

eenews.net/…/ev-charging-deserts-are-growing-in-r…

hbs.edu/…/the-state-of-ev-charging-in-america

AmbiguousProps , (edited )

You’re missing the point: it’s not like gas, and can’t be compared as such. If you have a home charger, you never need to use public charging except when road tripping, because your car charges within 4-6ish hours (my home charger does around ~22mi/hr), or overnight if you have a slower charger. You cannot do the same with gas unless you just top off at the gas pump every day.

I’m not trying to get into charging deserts right now - frankly, most people do not live in them, and thus make up less of the EV market at the moment. We haven’t even come close to meeting your given objective of replacing gas in even populated areas. Anyway, this article is about a 600 mile solid state battery that will only be in luxury $200k+ cars (which most people in very rural counties wouldn’t be able to afford), if at all. Not charging deserts.

naeap ,
@naeap@sopuli.xyz avatar

Not everyone has a house…

I’m living in an apartment and charging at home is not an option. I do have a EV though and when we take a larger trip, I need to plan a bit more to charge up before the trip.
That sucks a bit, else it’s pretty great

Fisch ,
@Fisch@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I think landlords should, legally, have to allow you to put a wallbox at the space where you park your car. Maybe they should also just have to pay it themselves. It’s stupid that people have to pay so much more and go through such a hassle to charge their car because, I assume, landlords dom’t allow them to put a wallbox at their car’s parking space.

naeap ,
@naeap@sopuli.xyz avatar

I own the apartment and even a parking place, that’s my own. but just doing the cableing will cost me a few thousand Euros.
And I’m one of the lucky ones who don’t need to search through public parking slots.

AlexWIWA ,

If this works as advertised then it’ll revolutionize more than just cars. This is huge

Wooki ,

So long as its not 2,3,4 times the price of current cars. Otherwise put them in busses and trains. Cost is strangly missing, I’m guessing because it is prohibitive.

tiredofsametab ,

All I see in the thumbnail is delicious, forbidden makizushi

dharmacurious ,

How viable would something like this be for powering a home? Solar panels+this?

sushibowl ,

These are gonna be hella expensive for a while. If space is not a concern there’s much cheaper batteries out there. You don’t really need fast charging capabilities either.

ianovic69 ,
@ianovic69@feddit.uk avatar

Sodium will probably be better when it becomes more available.

fubarx ,

Every car show, they put out ‘concept cars’ that will never see the light of day.

‘New batteries’ are giving off the same vibe.

SeaJ ,

I posted about this a week ago. The battery pack will likely be around 150kWh (Nio has a solid state battery car that will be produced that can do 577 miles on a 150kWh battery). The 9 minute charge is from 8-80% (according to the marketing material I dug up) so it is 432 miles of charge in 9 minutes. Considering fast charge costs like $0.50/kWh currently, I’m guessing most people will not be charging up that entire portion unless they are planning on driving for a long fucking time…after they have already been driving for 9-10 hours.

But that charge rate would have to come from a charger that can output much higher than current ones. The highest output you are likely to find is 350kW which would take 18 minutes to charge that 108kWh. So while this battery can charge that fast, you are not likely to be able to find a charger with that high of output for a few years. Still great to be able to get a couple hundred miles of range in 9 minutes. Solid state batteries supposedly have a quicker ramp up period and can take the full output for a higher percentage of the battery.

tmjaea ,

There are already some charging stations in Germany offering 400kW. Still 16 minutes though. 800kW is just insane. CCS is currently capped at 500kW, so you would need MCS which is planned for trucks.

another ,

Let me know when I can buy it.

refurbishedrefurbisher ,

Yeah. I’ve seen too many battery technologies die in a lab. I need to see it to believe it.

Buffalox ,

If you own an EV factory you can:

initial batches have already been delivered to EV manufacturers for testing.

nadram ,
@nadram@lemmy.world avatar

In the meantime we can get a portable solid state power station yoshinopower.com

Varyk ,

This is the real next step, every other battery hasn’t made it to production, but if they’re sending out working EV batteries to EV manufacturers and have production line running then it’s finally real.

And as soon as Korea starts mass producing long range, quick charge solid state batteries, the factories in China are going to start mass-producing them as well.

Regardless of what it means politically, this is fantastic news, I didn’t know they were actually producing them beyond prototype stage into commercial production.

Heellll yeah.

Diplomjodler3 ,

I bet the Europeans and Americans already work on imposing tariffs.

hubobes ,

On Korean products?

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