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Logitech CEO Wants to Sell You a Subscription-Based 'Forever Mouse'

During a recent episode of The Verge’s Decoder podcast, Logitech CEO Hanneke Faber shed some possible insight into the company’s view on one of its most important products. Saying that “the mouse built this house,” Faber shares the planning behind a Forever Mouse, a premium product that the company hopes will be the last you ever have to buy. There’s also a discussion about a subscription-based service and a deeper focus on AI.

For now, details on a Forever Mouse are thin, but you better believe there will be a catch. The Instant Pot was a product so good that customers rarely needed to buy another one. The company went bankrupt.

skyspydude1 ,

Instant Pot was a product so good that customers rarely needed to buy another one. The company went bankrupt.

Bull-fucking-shit. That’s just not how any of this works.

There are plenty of companies that make appliances that last a long fucking time, and don’t have to rely on fucking DLC micro transaction AI bullshit. The reason Instant Pot went bankrupt is the same reason a ton of popular companies have recently had issues: They got bought by private equity (who also owned Pyrex and fucked them over), saddled with a shitton of bad debt, squeezed of every bit of brand value they had, and then left to fall apart as the PE firm made off with millions.

The fact that the writer correlated “quality, durable good” with “unsuccessful business and bankruptcy” is absolutely one of the worst takes, and really shows just how pervasive this disgusting idea of “must be disposable to be profitable” really is.

TheReturnOfPEB , (edited )

Thank you for typing this up because I was not capable of doing it because vitriol messes up my WPM.

Cethin , (edited )

Partially true, but also they wouldn’t invest in something that lasts forever (without it costing an absurd amount of money or the subscription requirement). I like this video that shows the issue pretty well. (TLDW: Communist Germany made glass so durable it didn’t break as a product to sell to the west. No company would purchase it though because they made most of their profit from selling replacements. The glass is now what we call Gorilla Glass, which is really only available on phones, which are designed to be replaced every few years anyway.)

ColeSloth ,

100 years ago there was a meeting amongst lightbulb manufacturers that all collectively agreed to only design light bulbs to last about 1,000 hours. They were known as The Phoebus Cartel and Included Phillips and GE. Up until this agreement lighbulbs were typically lasting up to 2,500 hours. The manufacturers essentially created the concept of planned obsolescence because people weren’t buying as many lighbulbs as they wanted and it was decided to stop making longer lasting bulbs with higher costs. The whole thing started falling apart (competition of non members that were making bulbs, but they were all small operations, as well as patent expirations that GE had) and the start of world War two pretty much broke it up, as the Cartel couldn’t keep everything regulated and tested due to all the travel restrictions and such. But it still remains as the first global wide creation of planned obsolescence.

Extra fun fact: the common light socket screw design/size has remained the same since 1880.

Cethin ,

That is mostly a myth. They did agree of the lifetime, but it wasn’t planned obsolescence like people act. The lifetime of a bulb is directly related to how bright it is. If you make a really dim bulb it lasts a long time, which is how that one in the firehouse is still alive. It’s so dim it’s effectively useless. The group met to decide on a luminosity target, which also is a lifespan target effectively.

PanArab ,

I will continue buying cheaper (and wired) mouses from no-name Chinese brands.

Buffalox ,

I have a Steelseries Rival 3 I’ve used for years now, it’s a lower end cheap one, but the quality is really good, and it’s still as good as new.

SaltySalamander ,

I'll never buy a wired mouse again 🤷‍♂️

winkerjadams ,

I never want to have to worry about charging my mouse 🤷‍♂️

Fuzzy_Red_Panda ,

A mouse that takes AA batteries are the best! No charging needed, just replace the battery once or twice a year.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Or use rechargeable AAs.

I am getting sick of one-off proprietary batteries in a form factor I’ll never see again or worse are permanently baked into a device.

ScreaminOctopus ,

I’m not sure Logitech can build a forever mouse anymore with the way their QA’s gone. Who’s buying new mice regularly anyway?

Krackalot ,

I’ve owned a g502 for over a decade now. I know their products are such shit now, I don’t know what I’ll do when it breaks. Definitely not get a mouse subscription, at least

systemglitch ,

I was a flunky of Logitech for most of my life, but after multiple mice in a row that developed the double click issue in far too short a time, I have vowed to never buy another.

I’ve been super happy using simple, cheap assed mice and I can’t tell the difference in the slightest.

$20 mice ftw.

GooseFinger , (edited )

If you have basic soldering skills and care enough to do this, the mouse buttons can be replaced for less than a dollar each. Not that this excuses Logitech’s poor QA, but my g502 g305 will last damn near forever if I keep replacing the switches like I have been.

Smokeless7048 ,

Yep,

I tried this, but damaged my middle click in the process.

did you ever watch the youtube ‘deepdive’ into the double click?

Turns out they are using an older switch which, while great at the time, wants a higher voltage than modern, electricity diet, mice.

youtu.be/v5BhECVlKJA

GooseFinger ,

I haven’t, but I’m also an electrical engineer so I’m pretty familiar with the issue haha

Fun thing you can do, is open your mouse and look up the PN of your switch on DigiKey. Filter for components with the same package/footprint, then sort by actuation force. Get a few different ones and try them out. They sell good brands there.

I play a lot of shooters, so my left click is real easy to press, and my right click is ~3x harder.

Smokeless7048 ,

the video makes a point that the wetting current for the switches Logitech uses is… i think 5v, however modern mice use much lower voltages. He doesn’t attribute it to malice, more “we have been using this part for 2 decades, why switch”

I ordered in these myself: www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004754399010.html but damaged the middle mouse click during disassembly.

eronth ,

My latest issue is the rubber on the g604 is starting to warp. No idea how I’ll ever fix that in a satisfactory way.

aesthelete ,

The true Achilles heel of Logitech gear is their rubberized feeling coatings on things. My mouse’s coating started to fail from daily use in a couple of years.

SaltySalamander ,

Mine started rubbing off after ~6mo

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

oh man that’s what killed my MX Ergo. I’m back to using M570’s with a simple plastic shell because they don’t rot.

systemglitch ,

I really should have done that. I replace capacitors in monitors and do other bits of soldering, including making my own audio cables. Seems like a natural extension. I bet I still have those mice in a storage tub.

wjrii ,

I have an old M560 that I actually really like. Other than ABS shine, the only sign of age is that the “back” button you click by nudging the scroll wheel from right to left does double clicks. Do you happen to know if that is similarly fixable?

Kekzkrieger ,

Another proof ceo’s that most of those cunts in charge either got there by winning the birth lottery or bullshitted their way up and are complete clueless idiots. Any sane person with an idea of what they are doing knows its all bullshit.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

looks down at right hand resting on a Logitech M570 I’ve made several repairs on

I can see their strategy. Keep using microswitches rated for 1,200 clicks and you might need a subscription to these things if you don’t know your way around a soldering iron.

Astronauticaldb ,

This reminds me: I got a Logitech mouse as a gift a while back, and to get it functioning I needed to install a settings app for it for some reason. Today, I find in my Task Manager that they somehow installed an AI assistant platform thing using that settings app. I’m currently in the market for a new mouse lol.

LinusSexTips ,

Man the Logi settings app was utter trash, so slow to run or even change settings.

Ratbagd + Piper gave me the ability to change my DPI (no switch on the super light) without any bloat.

Astronauticaldb ,

That sounds perfect for what I need actually. Thanks for sharing that!

LinusSexTips ,

Was another perk switching to Linux, my keyboard I can bake in profiles (using a windows VM) then dispose of that VM once my keyboard is setup the way I wanted.

SteelSeries software is horrendous, up there with the Razer.

lemann ,

The first thing I did after purchasing an MX Master a few years ago was block the update server, after realising it downloads update binaries over plain HTTP and tries to automatically run them on boot 🤡

Very nice mouse tbh, just such a shame the company and their software is toilet water

barsquid ,

No.

Gerudo ,

Guess I’m either stocking up a couple extra 502 mice now, or I need to find a new mouse. I’m not looking forward to trying to find a new mouse, the 502 is perfect in my hand.

homesweethomeMrL ,

Bite my shiny metal PS/2 adapter

InternetUser2012 ,

Hard pass.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

Magnesium mouse

OR

Forever subscription

Hard to decide here, fellas. Idk.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

And now I no longer wish to buy Logitech products…

wolfshadowheart ,

I no longer wished to use Logitech products after using G-Hub. Most horrible software.

CatZoomies ,
@CatZoomies@lemmy.world avatar

Since we’re pretty much all in agreement that Logitech has enshittified with the Great Ones like Ubisoft, Hewlett Packard, and more, let’s talk about our last great products they made that we will no longer recommend! 😃

These are all my products that I love, and have been extremely high quality. All of them work just fine to this day!

  • Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum mice (I own two, bought in 2018 I believe and still using)
  • Logitech C920 1080p 30 FPS webcam
  • Logitech G613 Lightspeed Wireless keyboard (great keyboard I use for work, hate that the keys are painted and will eventually wear away)
  • Logitech G603 Wireless Mouse (for work, works fantastic!)
  • Logitech Litra Beam LED lights (I own two)

Oh Logitech. Why can’t you just make products we can own instead of following the greedy “As a Service”? Ah well! Bound to happen one day (Steam, please please don’t ever become public).

Restaldt ,

The aggressive enshittification of everything is why I’ve started downloading games from gog instead of steam.

Its why i have a jellyfin server.

Now its why ill have to find a new favorite mouse to use and have multiple backups of (once my g502 wireless and the backup finally die)

CatZoomies ,
@CatZoomies@lemmy.world avatar

Hello fellow GOG fan! I own 620 games on GOG, and I license 214 games on Steam. Granted some of those Steam games do not have DRM, so consider that an estimate.

Man you sound almost exactly like me lol. A lot of angry persons who have been burned by companies are becoming like us. What sent me over the edge was when Ubisoft threatened to shutdown their legacy activation servers, which would have led to me losing the DLC I purchased for my physical Wii U copy of Splinter Cell Blacklist. They backpedaled after significant fan backlash, but now I’ve been radicalized. I avoid “as a service” to the best of my ability and am deliberately hostile to these corporations.

floofloof ,

I use their webcams and I’m not very impressed with the results. They haven’t updated the technology in a decade or more.

CatZoomies ,
@CatZoomies@lemmy.world avatar

That’s a fair point. It’s interesting because this month I was considering upgrading my webcam to a 1080p 60fps one and certainly was going to consider them. I probably would have lightly researched a new Logi webcam and then bought it considering their track record and how wonderful my products have been.

I want to give companies my money in exchange for good products, but it’s weird! My morals won’t let me for some reason. It’s like I don’t agree with Logitech or something! Oh well! I’ll keep my money in my pocket and save it for a better product that doesn’t treat their customers like cattle.

barsquid ,

It’s such a pain to find things. Would be nice to just have a list of products that work decently without subscriptions or printer ink economy bullshit.

CatZoomies ,
@CatZoomies@lemmy.world avatar

When enough people are burned, that list will arise spontaneously. I’m sure there are some that are out there, but they probably are not well-known yet.

For example in the privacy community, Privacy Guides is one of the golden sources. I expect we’ll see something soon for products that avoid enshittification.

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

If you don’t mind spending money on a good product, the Insta360 Link is a fantastic webcam. It has a 3-axis gimbal which lets you pan, tilt, and rotate. It has an AI feature that’s actually useful - it can follow you as you move around.

Their control software only works on Windows and MacOS but I’m working on something similar for Linux.

CarbonatedPastaSauce ,

I bought half a dozen G502’s when I found out they were changing them many years ago, and I’ve only opened 1 of them. Pretty sure I’m good for life at this point.

I like the M705 for my work PC. Wireless and the batteries literally last for years. They do eventually die to the ‘double click of death’ so no points for longevity of hardware.

Also have a G13 that I like. Never found a better gaming half-keyboard but they stopped making them a long time ago.

Smokeless7048 ,

did you ever watch the youtube ‘deepdive’ into the double click?

Turns out they are using an older switch which, while great at the time, wants a higher voltage than modern, electricity diet, mice.

youtu.be/v5BhECVlKJA

CarbonatedPastaSauce ,

I have not but I’ll check it out later. Thanks!

CatZoomies ,
@CatZoomies@lemmy.world avatar

Dude, the G502 is such a great mouse. Mine has lived through so many years of gaming and is still chugging!

If you get ~7 years of life out of the M705, I would consider that to be quality since it would last through thousands of hours of usage. Any less and I would consider it a dud product, but that is certainly my opinion only there.

Never heard of the G13 before, so I looked it up and I think that’s pretty cool! This would have been a product I would have to try to see if it would fit my use case for gaming. A mini keyboard with a joystick seems cool, and admittedly I’m hovering my left hand in the air and trying to mimick what that would be like. Hard to conceptualize without actually trying it! I hope you got good use out of it, it does seem really cool.

If Logitech didn’t enshittify, they should’ve made their own version of the Power Glove. 😀 The Power Glove was way before my time on Earth, but man that would’ve been cool to see for PC.

CarbonatedPastaSauce ,

I have never found anything as nice for my hand as the G502, and it has the perfect amount of buttons. That’s why I had to stock up!

The G13 got really popular AFTER Logitech discontinued it, because there really hasn’t been anything like it on the market. I went looking to stock up on those too, but I was too late - they will go for a couple hundred bucks or more, used, when you can find one!

CatZoomies , (edited )
@CatZoomies@lemmy.world avatar

Such a shame too because I always recommended the G502. I love the feel, the ergonomics, and the button placement. I love the customizeable weights you can swap in. I used to play with all the weights, but then over the years I took them all out and now use none. My aim got better in FPS games - I went from steaming hot garbage to just regular garbage LOL.

I’m going to watch a couple review videos of the G13 to see if it’s up my alley. And if yes, I’ll add that bad boy to my watch lists and pick up a used one if I can score it for a decent price.

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

They do eventually die to the ‘double click of death’ so no points for longevity of hardware.

Interesting… I’ve had one for 10 years, use it nearly daily, and haven’t had any issues.

CarbonatedPastaSauce ,

I’m on my 3rd or 4th one now. They still always last a good 5 years.

Smokeless7048 ,

I have a Logitech G710+. After years (like 8) of use, the keycaps were starting to crack with age. I reached out to Logitech and they sent me all new keycaps, free of charge, despite being several times past the warranty period.

Truly amazing customer service.

CatZoomies ,
@CatZoomies@lemmy.world avatar

That’s quality right there. You probably would have bought those key caps, but they just sent them to you for free. That’s going above and beyond, and that’s how you keep a customer. Noctua is all about that, and I’ll continue to buy their products and recommend them.

Such a shame, Logitech. You were great but now you’re turning into crap.

Smokeless7048 ,

yea, would have happily paid for keycaps, since i was so far past any kind of warrenty.

Ended up buying some nicer, PBT kecaps 4 years after that anyways. Still use this keyboard, even if part of the backlighting has failed in the… 12 years.

i.imgur.com/anIU1RQ.jpeg

CatZoomies ,
@CatZoomies@lemmy.world avatar

That’s a good looking keyboard right there mate.

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Nice keycaps! Can you please provide link to them? Thinking of getting some fancy ones myself.

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Same with me! I bought that keyboard because at the time it was the cheapest mechanical keyboard I could find that wasn’t an Aliexpress special, and it’s still working well for me.

The keycaps for that keyboard have a known design issue - the plastic part that connects it to the key is too thin and breaks easily - which is why I think they’re willing to send out free replacements.

Brkdncr ,

My previous logi mouse lasted for a decade before giving up.

My current MX mouse lasted almost 3 years before the rubber started separating from the case at the palm area.

I don’t know if I will buy another logi mouse.

CatZoomies ,
@CatZoomies@lemmy.world avatar

I hear you dude. That 10+ year reputation is what drove me to buy their stuff, along with all the glowing user recommendations.

I heard that you can make the rubber last longer on mice by periodically cleaning them to slow their chance of breaking down, but I never experienced the rubber actually separating. That happened to my spouse’s Razer mouse (heh, that rhymes).

But I suppose that, apart from this whole post’s focus on “as a service”, that possibly Logi products have begun to go downhill quite recently. I wouldn’t know, all of mine have been great. Sucks for your MX mouse, but I feel you on the uncertainty of buying future Logi mice.

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

“This is a premium feature. To unlock the right-click menu, just enjoy this 30 second ad, or click to add to your monthly subscription.”

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