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sudo42 ,

Why does this feel like another “voice assistant” that we’re supposed to talk to all day?

If we worked from home, maaaayyybe voice control could be a thing once it’s 100%? But Boss Man wants us back at work. Are we really going to be a open-office with everyone talking to their computer like some sort of crypto bro boiler room?

It’s sorta like the “video phone” that everyone was dying to have for decades. We finally got it and everyone went “meh”. A few grandparents use it to talk to their grandkids. Hell, most of the current generations don’t even use phones anymore.

It’s one more technology that’s being pushed out before it’s baked and will likely be only really useful in niche applications. Really fucking good for those niche applications, but just too expensive and awkward for anyone else.

SpeedLimit55 ,

The video phone is now facetime, skype, zoom, google meet etc…

sudo42 ,

Yeah, FaceTime. But how often do people use it in practice?

Good point about Zoom. Business clearly like Zoom for meetings, but big business is still hammering BTO hard. Will Zoom be marginalized when they finally force in-person meetings?

Also, the last few companies I worked for that did Zoom meetings, everyone kept their cameras off.

Bartsbigbugbag ,

It’s not every day for everyone, but I used video calling every day to talk to my foreign spouse, and to talk to my little brothers when I was overseas. It’s pretty amazing overall.

Reyali ,

There are some demographics where its usage is extremely common. I’ve come across multiple people who are on FaceTime calls while in public. Just walking around on video and speaker, talking to someone else. I can’t conceive of using it this way, but in some social circles it’s totally normalized.

This page has some interesting quotes. Reading through, it sounds like while it’s hovering at or below the top 5 most common video chat tools. There’s a lot of bias towards quotes about 2020 usage so that’s obviously skewed, but that year at least it there were 9-25% of various demographics cited using FaceTime daily.

I use FaceTime 2-3 times a year to talk to my nephew, and maybe 3-5 times a year to screen share or show my mum things. But I do use Teams video calls literally 5 days a week (I try to avoid the video part when I can, but there are a few in leadership who really push for it. My company is never doing RTO, so I’ll accept a bit of video calling for the sake of permanent WFH!).

SpeedLimit55 ,

My kid and his friends use FaceTime instead of calling and will often be on it for hours while gaming. It’s much easier than a call for 3+ people. We are in the US but I imagine they use whatsapp or whatever the same way other places.

I work for a smaller org (less than 50 ppl) and we are generally required to have cameras on in meetings.

Blackmist ,

To do:

Cheaper headset

Actual controllers

Make it work with PCs

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Apple: nah

Joelk111 ,

I still don’t understand how Windows got the PC name. A Mac is also a personal computer…

Also, apple isn’t going to make it work with other OSs any more than they have their other products, not sure why you’d even list that.

immutable ,

In case you are wanting the history. IBM actually coined the term PC with their IBM Personal Computers

At the time most computing platforms were incompatible. Software written for a commodore computer wouldn’t work with an apple computer wouldn’t work with an IBM PC.

The IBM PC was popular enough though that people started building “pc compatible” machines. A very popular configuration for this was intel chips with Microsoft DOS. While these machines started out as “pc compatible” after a while the IBM PC wasn’t a big deal anymore so saying “we are compatible with a machine released in 1981” just slowly morphed into “it’s a PC” as shorthand for “intel chipset with Microsoft OS”

Now why didn’t apple get the pc moniker? At the time when the IBM PC launched apple was actively building and selling their own computers and weren’t interested in making them IBM PC clones so they never went out and marketed themselves as “pc compatible” because for the most part they were not.

Thanks for attending my Ted talk

Joelk111 ,

Thanks for the history, very interesting! I still hate how the term is used today and refuse to use it.

VindictiveJudge ,
@VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world avatar

Nowadays I mostly think of it in regards to how much control you have over the hardware. If you can Ship of Theseus your way to a completely different machine with completely different specs, that’s a PC to me. If you’re stuck with what you paid for, then it’s something else. A Mac Mini is not a PC in my book, but a Hackintosh is even though it’s the same OS and general hardware architecture.

But that’s just how I use the term.

Joelk111 ,

I still struggle to read personal computer and not think of any phone, laptop, etc as a PC. Hell, a calculator is a rudementary PC.

JohnEdwa ,
  • Don’t make it out of a solid chunk of aluminium and glass so it weighs a ton and has nothing to balance it out on the back.
riodoro1 ,

Bro, just one more year. Let them come up with just another pair of goggles bro, trust me bro, one more year and we will be in VR future bro.

enleeten ,

In the year 2000…

JustARaccoon ,

Quest 3 adoption is super high compared to where quest 1 or 2 were at years ago, the apple vision pro wasn’t meant to create mass adoption anyway, not at that price point.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

I’m still waiting for:

  • good Linux support, including apps/games
  • not too expensive - $500-ish
  • relatively privacy-friendly, so anything Meta is out

Valve Index is close, but it’s expensive and Linux content is very limited. Bigscreen VR Headsets looks interesting since it seems more comfortable than Index, just as privacy-friendly, and should work on Linux, but it’s still a little expensive ($1k) and there aren’t many Linux VR apps AFAIK. I might get it though, still deciding.

cadekat ,

This requires an Apple iPhone XR or newer, as the face scan utilizes the TrueDepth sensor.

I’d rather take a plaster mold of my face than have to use a specific phone to order a VR headset.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

I could probably borrow my wife’s iPhone, but agree, this isn’t great and is part of why I don’t own one. I’m guessing the custom cushion is a significant part of the price (and the appeal), so hopefully they make an alternative at some point.

TonyTonyChopper ,
@TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz avatar

“borrow my wife’s iPhone” has to be the #1 way people order these. It makes no sense to assume your PC VR enthusiast market has a recent Apple phone on hand

sugar_in_your_tea ,

I also happen to be a Linux enthusiast, and since it’s SteamVR compatible, it should just work. There aren’t a lot of Linux compatible headsets, so I’m guessing Linux users would disproportionately be interested, and they’d disproportionately not have iphones…

01011 ,

You mean they’re doing what everyone said they should have done to begin with - release an affordable consumer product that will in turn attract more developers?

AdrianTheFrog ,
@AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world avatar

Everyone knew that they would release a cheaper model, and it was always their plan. That’s why it has ‘pro’ in its name.

01011 ,

And my point is that maybe they should have established a market by releasing a cheaper model first.

Snapz ,

BUT THE SHAREHOLDERS!!!

Cossty ,

The only thing I could see myself using it for, is being in bed and watching a movie. I can do that with ar glasses for 300$.

dutchkimble ,

I myself use a 9 US$ gooseneck phone holder that gives me a great tv watching experience in bed. Came across it as a lemmy recommendation and it’s improved the quality of my life much more than some high end gadgets.

TonyTonyChopper ,
@TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz avatar

you can get a giant 4K TV for $500 (1/7 the Vision price)

basically one TV for every room in your house

werefreeatlast ,

I made the right choice back in 2019 when they were recruiting optimechanics experts. It’s a dumb idea.

potustheplant ,

Weird flex, but ok.

echodot ,

Yeah right. Surely it would have been a good idea to take the money for the last 5 years.

werefreeatlast ,

Why? I got a way better job that I like and it has no end in sight. I could retire on this one. Maybe.

qevlarr ,
@qevlarr@lemmy.world avatar

Good for sticking to something you believe in. Highly underrated quality in engineers. “Take the money and run like a thief” is such a bullshit attitude

werefreeatlast ,

Yeah the best jobs are all about doing something you like. The moment you stop caring much about being employed there, quality drops and your own reputation is on the line. It’s much better to do what you love. Getting paid 🤪 for it, that’s my wife’s job. She pushed me in the negotiation phase to the point where I was so uncomfortable. But now I feel like that was ok based on the change I brought to others in the company. My pay bump raised the pay for several others. But anyway, do what you love and get paid doing it, like Chris Rock said once…or twice while getting paid to say it.

HubertManne ,

Im not an engineer but I am in development. I will do the best I can to make as good a product as I can based on the requirements but when it comes to what I will work on I am a total whore. Show me the money and tell me what you want honey. Ill do anything for the right price. No weapon stuff though.

kratoz29 ,

I watched a YouTuber telling something like:

“I cannot believe Apple’s biggest premium VR tech wants to change the world… And they are advertising it with… Fucking spreadsheets”

I am paraphrasing ofc, but the meaning was that this could have been a pretty good toy for everyone, but they are trying to sell it as a work-buddy thingy, yeah seeing those spreadsheets focus was kinda dystopian (like in Ready Player One where they are caged doing work or something hah), watching movies in crazy sites yeah, that was what would have sell it more for me, and other ppl, if it wasn’t crazily expensive.

Klear ,

It’s not for gaming and it’s not for porn… what were they thinking?

kratoz29 ,

If it fails it is totally on them.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

Samsung gear vr is the best vr /s

simplejack ,
@simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

Apple has suspended work on the second-generation Vision Pro headset to singularly focus on a cheaper model

That seems very reasonable and like what they probably should’ve been doing all along.

echodot ,

I still don’t understand who the pro was actually for. Everyone who had one said exactly the same thing about it which was they couldn’t understand how to use it productively for anything.

simplejack ,
@simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

IMHO, it’s a fancy dev kit.

Natanael ,

Exactly. Not promoting it as a dev kit was a major failure. This is the kind of product where you CAN’T do without external feedback, not everybody will use one in a clean office (or even one that stands still), not everybody has the same spatial awareness or motor skills, not supporting controllers locks out numerous people with limited hand movements, etc… As a dev kit it could’ve worked much better at getting the kind of feedback they need from devs working on useful AR stuff

echodot ,

The problem with it being a dev kit is that I don’t know what features are and are not going to be on the more consumer model, so I can’t really develop anything for it.

Will the consumer version have the truly excellent depth tracking or will it use the cheaper but more traditional point tracking system, because that will inform my UI decisions. Will it have iris recognition for logins or will I need to build that functionality in, will they please include controllers, will they please fix it so that you can pin things to a location, and not have them close just because you leave that location? I don’t know, as they haven’t communicated anything about it.

Natanael ,

The point of such an early dev kit isn’t to commit in advance but get people to try out what works, then select what will be in the final product (and maybe releasing updated dev kits on the way). They’re would be a general plan, but this isn’t like a game console dev kit where almost all specs and major features are set in advance, so you’d expect devs to implement multiple variants of each software feature and see what they require of the hardware, how people use it, how popular they are, etc.

ssj2marx ,

I guess the idea is that it’s an entire imac but in a VR form factor, trouble was they didn’t have anywhere near the app support that you would need to make that idea work

dustyData ,

The kind of people who would go around driving a Cybertruck with a Vision Pro on their faces and an humane pin strapped on.

Regrettable_incident ,
@Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world avatar

For one glorious moment of misreading there I thought there was a humane pin strap on.

M500 ,

Companies have been pushing VR so long now. I’ll say that I think the tech is cool and the idea is cool, but I will literally never use them.

I can’t wear them while working as I am in meetings 99% of the time.

I would not wear them in my free time, as I do not want to disassociate from my wife and cats.

Wanderer ,

This is just a price to function issue.

If the price was 0 everyone would have one.

But the cost of it is way too high for what it is. Price and weight etc will come down. Uses will increase.

DJDarren ,

I don’t think the cost is too high at all. But I also don’t think it’s a consumer device right now. It’s a dev kit with none of the cost savings of production at scale.

greenskye ,

Have one != Use one. I own two and stopped using them ages ago. All of them are too clunky and I realized I’m generally too lazy to want to interact with stuff in VR vs my more comfortable media consumption on a TV and a couch.

Maybe if they were super lightweight and I could legitimately do real exercise with them they’d be useful, but as is they’re too hot, too uncomfortable and too limited.

Omega_Jimes ,

My issue is, aside from gaming, I’m not interacting with the content or data in any meaningful, improved way.

VR for real life is just a series of flat two dimensional screens, usually with a novelty background of a waterfall.

AdrianTheFrog ,
@AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, I think it could be useful for CAD or 3D art (with proper software) but I can’t think of many other jobs where it would be all that helpful.

Omega_Jimes ,

I demoed a system that let you input construction plans and walk around/ interact with ar wires/plumbing/walls once. But it was so cumbersome to implement it was more like a neat tech demo.

Maybe once the tech is small enough to fit inside safety glasses…

kureta ,

I would only use VR in racing, flight sim, or space sim games. probably once a couple of months after the initial excitement.

M500 ,

That’s a good point. I’d have loved this for elite dangerous.

dev_null ,

I love VR. So I use it for gaming maybe once a week, for 1-2 hours, usually as an activity with my SO so we can switch who’s playing each “round” depending on the game. That’s the maximum I find fun instead of tiring. I can’t see using it for long periods or for work, that sounds like a nightmare.

daddy32 ,

Aren’t the meetings pushed as one of the basic function of these? But I guess it only makes sense if most of the participants use them and software has the support.

M500 ,

If most people have them? Ok, I’ll tell all my clients to get a pair 😂

TonyTonyChopper ,
@TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz avatar

yeah the software they developed only works between Vision owners… perfect for meetings between all your millionaire friends I guess

jj4211 ,

I have found my headset useful for work, when working from home and I don’t do camera on meetings anyway.

At home it’s pretty nice, and since my ears are open I can actually talk, so my wife actually prefers it over me wearing headphones. But all things in moderation, I wouldn’t wear it constantly.

Despite being a huge fan of the concept, I still couldn’t go for Apple’s headset, it’s heavy, it’s expensive, and lack of controllers are all deal breakers. The Quest 3 is lighter, has good controllers, and is more affordable. It may not have the displays as nice as Vision, but that doesn’t make up for the rest of the stuff.

Starkstruck ,

It’s absolutely phenomenal for gaming or vr “experiences” (basically movies made specifically for vr). But the corpos are really hellbent on making everyone use it for meetings for some fucking reason. Which is truly the lamest, most unnecessary use of this tech.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

The current iterations have far more potential than the past.

But the hardware is stil too power inefficiënt and the display pixel density is expensive to produce.

TORFdot0 ,

If they can’t get the headset to fit the size and weight of swimming goggles, I don’t think it can get mass adoption

555 ,

The front screen is what no one wants in a cheaper version. Don’t cut back on sound and cameras ffs

casmael ,

Rip

downpunxx ,

no one wants to wrap themselves in a head cocoon

nickwitha_k ,

That’s what they were SO close to getting. Solutions like Xreal Air and Viture are just much more comfortable and less isolating.

UntitledQuitting ,

Was about to comment this. Those products are actually usable versions of apples vr. And they can be used with any device. Apples use case is so narrow that other companies overtook them out of the gate.

Natanael ,

Apple Vision Pro is the best virtual sandbox headset.

Almost nobody needs the best virtual sandbox headset.

Natanael ,

Viture looks neat, still missing some things I want to see but they seem to understand what this kind of device needs

nickwitha_k ,

Curious from your perspective what you’d like to see. From mine, Viture and Xreal are nearly perfect, with the exception of Xreal failing to be supportive of open APIs.

Natanael , (edited )

I like that the viture has dimming, lens adjustment, an optional android based neckband device, and miracast is neat, etc.

If all you want is a compact screen that’s pretty good, and I’m considering getting one, but I want to see some more stuff like integration with your other devices. I see they have remote desktop stuff for gaming, etc, but I’m thinking a bit deeper integration like using a phone app to relay notifications like a HUD, and I want a bit more spatial awareness (might need to rely on stuff like radio beacons for that like UWB). The navigation also seems to rely on either your phone, buttons on the neckband, or a paired 3rd party controller (no official wireless controller), you could make it a bit easier with something that’s maybe keychain sized?

Imagine if the headset could piggyback on your phone’s AR support + UWB direction finding to let your phone calculate where it is relative to the world, then relay it to the headset which calculate its offset to tell where IT is in the world, it would immediately make Google Maps Live View infinitely more immersive (and overlays don’t need to be perfect, just need to not drift by too many degrees). It would probably be annoying to have to keep scanning with your phone to keep the map accurate though 🤷

555 ,

Speak for yourself.

downpunxx ,

have fun stormin the castle

555 ,

It would take a miracle.

kevincox ,
@kevincox@lemmy.ml avatar

I don’t know why everyone is so negative. The gameplan seems pretty clear to me.

  1. Make expensive fancy product. This is effectively a “devkit” that companies can use to start experimenting with AR software.
  2. Make lower cost product. There are now a few decent apps available and early adopters will be willing to buy it to be one the leading edge.
  3. Now there is a bigger market, leading more companies to be willing to develop apps.

Apple is hoping that this is enough to break the chicken-and-egg cycle. Enough to get a few powerful apps such that more regular consumers will be willing to buy which again increases the addressable market which makes it more attractive to companies.

qjkxbmwvz ,

Basically sounds like the Tesla game plan, which was super effective: roadster (which is purely a toy for the rich) and a little later the Model S (practical EV), and then introduce an affordable model.

This implies that eventually people will strap rusty boxes to their head though, so grain of salt with the analogy…

WolfLink ,

They did something similar with Apple Watch and Apple TV and Home Pod and jt worked out well enough for them.

MrSpArkle ,

HomePod is still mid. But people really sleep on how terrible the first Apple Watch was, and how AppleTV is a media juggernaut now.

TrickDacy ,

Yep that’s exactly why they had started the 2 then changed their mind lol. Alllll part of the plan

dustyData ,

It’s all 5D chess, just like Elon.

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