There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

cmnybo ,

Touch screens should not be used for any controls needed to operate a car. You can’t use them without taking your eyes off the road.

DreadPotato , (edited )
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Technically the only thing you’re allowed to fiddle with, while driving, is what you can operate from the steering wheel. You’re not supposed to fiddle with radio, AC etc. from the center console while driving even if it’s physical buttons.

I know people don’t drive like this, but you’re only allowed to take your hands off the steering wheel for changing gears if driving a manual, otherwise it’s two hands on there at all times…technically

Mog_fanatic ,

Clarify allowed. Is it actually illegal in the EU to turn on the radio or air conditioning while driving unless the buttons allow you to do it from the steering wheel?

baru ,

Is it actually illegal in the EU

What’s allowed differs per country.

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

It differs from country to country, but where I live you can technically be fined for it. You will also fail your drivers test if you do it.

Link ,

Where I live changing the AC is a task they can ask you while on the test.

If you do it dangerously such as swerving or taking your eyes off the road for extended periods then you can fail the test.

Pips ,

Is “you’re the passenger, you do it, please,” an acceptable response?

knatschus ,

Of course

Damage ,

“I won’t always be here to passenge for you!”

Jramskov ,

What country is that?

ekky ,

I’m more concerned about fog lights, emergency lights, and Window heating, as law usually requires you to be able to use them if conditions require it.

IdiosyncraticIdiot ,

Hands on 10 and 2 while operating the 2 ton death trap!

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Phew im good then, my car weighs 1 ton so i can just drive with one hand right?

Soggy ,

The math checks out.

Wizard_Pope ,
@Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

Actually your hands are supposed to be at 9 and 3

GarlicToast ,

This differ by countries. Here I’m required by law to operate the car as needed to operate it safely.

If the cloud vanish, I am allowed to put sunglasses, if I get vapor on my windshield I am allowed to push the button to remove it and so on.

But you have to do it safely and smartly. If you get in an accident that you would have been able to prevent otherwise, you may be found at fault. Even if you didn’t cause it.

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

The wording is probably similar here, but very few critical systems are not controllable from the steering wheel.

Wipers, volume, AC, cruise control are all controlled from the steering wheel of modern cars, there’s really not anything you need to do from the centre console to drive safely. If it’s not a critical system, you shouldn’t be using it, physical buttons or not.

Ilovethebomb ,

I’ve never seen a car where you can adjust the AC from the wheel.

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Mine can 🤷‍♂️ thought that was just about normal these days actually.

Ilovethebomb ,

How much crap is on your steering wheel? What model of car is this, anyway?

candybrie ,

Are you counting the stalks behind the wheel as on the steering wheel?

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yes, you can operate them without letting go of the steering wheel or taking your eyes off the road.

candybrie ,

I’m definitely taking my hand off the wheel to operate things like headlights or wiper speed, which are dials on the end of a stalk. It would be really difficult not to.

atrielienz ,

It’s funny that hazard lights are not included in the list and while they’re not part of a touch screen interface for any car as far as I know, I also know some older cars used to mount that button on top of the steering wheel and I kind of wish we could go back to that.

ekky ,

Same, I’ve got an Opel Corsa from 2016, so it’s pretty much brand new.

The only things in the wheel are the speed control, wipers, and default lights.

For everything else required for driving, such as fog lights, emergency lights, front and back Window heating, AC, radio, and of course the shift stick, I’ll need to remove a hand from the wheel.

Luckily for me, the Touchscreen in the middle only handles less important things like navigation and external music sources.

Ilovethebomb ,

Wait, you don’t even get radio volume, next track etc on the wheel?

ekky ,

Oh right, I do actually have track, volume, and “take call” on the wheel. I think I did use them once, but it just never stuck since they felt awkward to use.

GarlicToast ,

Is there any place left for your hands? I have never, ever seen a car that is built like that.

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Its all placed in the left/right spokes of the steering wheel, your hands shouldn’t grab that part…how the hell do you grab it if that stuff is in the way!?

zephr_c ,

If you read the article this is specifically about things needed to operate the car. Radios and AC or whatever is fine, but car manufacturers are starting to move things actually needed like turn signals into touch controls, and that is not okay.

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yes touch controls, but the comment I replied to mentioned touch screens (so usually the centre console), which only contains thing you don’t really need to manage while driving.

zephr_c ,

The comment you replied to also specifically said “controls needed to operate a car.”

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Suggesting he is confusing the point of the article.

miss_brainfarts ,

Wait… what? What???

zephr_c ,

Yeah, thank Tesla for that one. Because of course it was Tesla.

miss_brainfarts ,

Seems like a few countries should go over their laws again and prohibit those models from being sold. I don’t know what else would be effective

redcalcium ,

Tesla is very confident their customers won’t need steering wheel anymore soon, so they went ahead and fuck the steering wheel even though the autopilot can’t work in all circumstances yet.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Autopilot never will, you’re thinking of FSD.

onion ,

Didn’t Tesla put the wiper settings on the center console

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

It’s always been a button on the left stalk at the steering wheel, and for quite a while wiper speed has been adjustable from the left scroll-button on the steering wheel as well.

atrielienz ,

So if my windows fog over I shouldn’t be able to put the defrost on?

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

You should have configured your AC before you started driving.

I haven’t had windows fog up during a drive spontaneously since forever ago when AC became standard in even cheap vehicles since they dry the air.

archon ,

You’ve never driven in a humid tunnel, or live in a place with changing weather do you?

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Oh I do, we have almost 200 days of precipitation yearly, and temperatures fluctuating wildly between days all seasons of the year.

archon ,

Some tunnels where I live explicitly instruct you to adjust your AC before entering.

I’m allowed to adjust anything within arms reach as long as I keep my eyes on the road. It is my responsibility to familiarize myself with the controls before departing so I can do so.

atrielienz ,

I’m driving. There is not a drop of rain in the sky. 2 hours into my drive it starts raining and my windows fog up. Your answer is I should have turned on the defrost before I left. Interesting. Against reason and human nature. But interesting.

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

What kind of shit-buckets are you people me riving that requires you to turn on defrost just because it starts raining!?

I regularly drive in conditions that go from sunny to rainy, or even sunny to snow/slush…that’s pretty much all our weather is where I live. I never have to start defrost mode while driving, ever. I use defrost to defrost and remove ice from the the car before I start driving, the AC keeps everything fine without me adjusting anything no matter the change of conditions while I’m driving.

atrielienz ,

I generally get cold. I don’t turn on the A/C unless it’s hot out. So generally what happens is, in winter (because of where I live and the amount of daily precipitation) I either leave the climate controls off or I turn them on when I get cold or when my windshield starts to fog over. Not everyone who drives a car drives a nice brand new car with nice modern brand new features.

I don’t know what kind of car you do drive but I will say your experience is probably not the norm and certainly not enough to justify your original statement. You keep using the term A/C which suggests to me that you have climate controls that either automatically adjust to a specific setting when you start the car, or you turn the A/C on every time you get in the car.

How much condensation builds up depends on a lot of factors. Your own body chemistry can add to it. I have a friend who runs hot and every time he gets in the car he cracks the window because if he doesn’t him sitting there will fog that window up.

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

AC also keeps the car warm you know…and yes, I tell it to keep my car at 21°C and it does just that. Its a Peugeot 308, medium trim level, that’s more than a decade old with +250k km on it, I’m not driving a nice new car at all. My wife’s VW up is exactly the same, also not new and definitely not a “nice” car.

atrielienz ,

The AC does not keep the car warm. The HVAC system does. The AC settings specifically do two things. They lower the temperature of the car, or a blend door is used to allow air cooled by the AC system to mix with air heated by the heater core to provide temperature between the absolute maximum heat and the absolute maximum cold.

But regardless, you tell it to keep your car at a specific temperature. That’s not how I or seemingly most people use their climate controls.

On days where I used to have drill, my drilling station was something like 70 miles away from my home. If it’s not raining and in comfortable I don’t turn on the climate control system at all. But weather absolutely can be much different there than it is at my home. Climate control is there when I need it. Same as manually controlled headlights, or, wipers, or the map light. I don’t need to take my eyes off the road to press the dedicated defrost button. I drive a manual car so taking my right hand off the wheel for shifting is normal and I really don’t understand why anyone would advocate for changing any of those settings to a touch screen.

bigMouthCommie ,
@bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

"allowed"? where do you live with such laws?

ColeSloth ,

Technically, you know vehicles went 80 years without any steering controls? Buttons on the wheel still isn’t a requirement.

Hyperreality ,

Suspect it depends on where you live, but you're not wrong.

I think I've driven a million kilometres by now, it's all become so fucking boring and second nature, that you start really being sloppy and distracted. Because you gained so much experience, you start to (unconciously) overestimate your skills.

But the two hands thing really is necessary for if you hit something slippy or need to make an unexpected manoeuvre. The risks of driving are incredibly low, but if shit does hit the fan you're in for a world of trouble if you're doing something else.

omgitsaheadcrab ,

This is a win for consumers, touch screens are bloody awful when driving and take away far too much of your concentration

Dudewitbow ,

IMO the capacititive buttons with no feedback are even worse than the touch screen. at least with the touch screen, you will likely have a colored UI element on screen to press. with the cars that replace all the buttons with capacitive buttons with no feedback, theyre all the same color.

merde ,

no feedback? 🤔

either the button or an indicator lights up or you see/hear what the button is supposed to activate or stop

Rinox ,

*haptic feedback. The touch and press should be two different actions, not the same action. Otherwise, you need to look at a button to know where it is and if it did what it was supposed to do, which distracts you from driving.

Touchscreens are not that much better in this regard, IMO

merde ,

do you also need haptic feedback with light switches at home? How do you know if they work or not?

datavoid ,

Light switches are physical objects, when you touch them you are going to feel them moving.

So… yes.

poppy ,

Additionally, I’m not flipping light switches while controlling a giant machine capable of killing people. Not sure why they compared the two.

Reverendender , (edited )

I think it’s because of the way that they are

merde ,

thanks for the help :)

it was to say that tactile buttons in cars don’t need haptic feedback either

Rinox ,

Of course I do. Imagine for a second not feeling the different light switches in the dark and turning on all the lights in the middle of the night just to go to the bathroom.

Sure, I know which I’ve touched AFTER I’ve touched it. I need to know BEFORE I press it, without having to look.

Thorny_Insight ,

I’d be fine with one that works like the Taptic engine on iPhones or how ever the trackpad on my Macbook does. It’s a solid surface with no moving parts but it clicks when you press it and it feels 100% the same as pressing a physical button. It’s way different than haptic feedback done with just the vibrator motor.

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

That doesn’t work well in a car though. It works in a phone because you’re holding it, or a trackpad because you’re putting a lot of pressure on it. In a car it’s already shaking from the engine, road, etc. Plus those taps are generally much shorter and lighter and less likely to feel the vibration.

Damage ,

Just have it swerve when you press a button!

Markimus ,

I do agree with you, though why not just not buy cars which have touch screen controls? You don’t need legislation to filter your purchases.

catch22 ,

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ffd7c42-0040-485e-8431-31c62c73623a_850x400.jpeg

rottingleaf ,

The hand was fine until some point for most purposes, just like Newtonian physics were fine.

It did work as expected before that. The funniest thing is that the Soviet system started smelling of piss at the same time.

So libertarian and marxist views on economics were both like “now our enemy’s flaws are not much worse than our own, but it will get apocalyptic for them and we’ll win”, and somewhere in 60s it started getting apocalyptic for both. Damn funny.

BakerBagel ,

What’s funny is thay Adam Smith predicted all of our late stage capitalism before Marx and Engles were even born. He warmed that leaving capitalists to their own devices would destroy the economy, but instead he is regarded as the father of free marker capitalism by morons who never even read* Wealth of Nations. *

fine_sandy_bottom ,

Who’s taking about legislation?

ceiphas ,

Because it is a dependency for most things that buyers want in their cars. Not a technical dependency but cou cannot get Climate Control without a Touch screen in Some Cars for example.

doesn’t make sense

Rinox ,

You do though. Without legislations, cars wouldn’t have safety features by default like crumple zones, airbags etc. Without legislations, companies could do whatever they want to pad their bottom line. You need laws to define what is and isn’t acceptable, especially when it comes to safety.

Mirshe ,

Before we started legislating car safety, more often, if you got in a crash at speed, you would be either dead or seriously injured. It was not uncommon for a front-end collision to shove the entire steering column into, in some cases THROUGH, people’s ribcages because there was no shock absorption. “Defensive driving” - avoiding a collision at all costs - was taught mostly because of this sort of problem.

I’ll speak to the effectively of modern safety engineering myself - I was involved in two serious accidents within the past two years that, were I in a vehicle without safety features, would’ve left me dead or crippled for life. One, my Jeep spun out on a patch of wet road and got slammed by two other vehicles in a pinball situation - airbags deployed and I was left with some soreness and a thoroughly-wrecked vehicle. The other, my work van got T-boned by a semi truck at speed while crossing an intersection - once again, the airbags deployed, the seatbelt locked me in place, and the fact that the rear of the vehicle was designed to squish in on itself saved me from, at the very least, a severe case of whiplash, and more than likely some severe head injuries.

atrielienz , (edited )

As Teslas and cars like it become more popular (especially in the EV space), more automakers will be adding touch screens. A lot of Fords new cars have them for instance. I was in a Hyundai rental a few months ago and it has a touch screen. I personally think it’s a trend that will at some point be checked by the NHTSA or similar because they already know interacting with a phone slows reaction times, is distracting, and contributes to accidents. Why putting what is essentially a larger version of a smart phone on the dash should be better somehow is a question I’ve had since Tesla first started doing it.

jkrtn ,

I won’t. And I don’t need legislation to filter my purchases. I need legislation to filter the number of drivers using a touchscreen behind me on the highway.

Markimus ,

Oh ok, sure, I didn’t think of it that way 🤷🏻‍♂️

andros_rex ,

It’s really hard to find a car to buy that doesn’t use touch screens - they slap them on everything. Car quality in general has declined tbh - my modern Honda Civic was a fucking lemon.

summerof69 ,

I feel like I’m the only one here who is driving a car and not a spaceship. What’s there to interact with while you’re driving? Key multimedia buttons are already on the wheel.

maynarkh ,

Some Teslas have their windscreen wiper settings on the touchscreen.

marx2k ,

That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard today

blackn1ght ,

I think the latest models also have the gear selector (or whatever they’re called for automatics / EVs) on the touch screen, so you need to swipe up to put it into drive.

marx2k ,

So… the entire car is bricked if that screen malfunctions and the car is not usable by those with poor motor skills in their right hand?

blackn1ght ,

Or left hand for right-hand drive cars, but yes.

I watch the CarWow channel on YouTube and they review a lot of EV’s, and the host struggled with it - it would take him several attempts to get it into drive as he’d swipe up but not all the way so it would never actually engage. I guess in that case a software fix could be applied to make the control more sensitive but it’s still fucking stupid to have it there in the first place.

Also for more WTFs, on that same channel, they do these challenges where they drive a bunch of EVs on a route and see which one goes the furthest, which has the closest range to what the manufacture claims it’ll do and what happens to the vehicle when it runs out of battery. There was an instance where the Tesla ran out of charge, but they couldn’t open the recharging port because the little door is electronic.

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Making it “more sensitive” could be awful. Imagine the carnage of suddenly dropping into reverse because a shirt sleeve brushed the button while reaching for something else.

Critical controls all need to be physical. Period. Putting something like rbgd mood lighting on… okay. That kinda makes sense.

But anything a driver might need while driving…. Dont have to reinvent the wheel. Which, is probably the biggest issue with Tesla’s. They were more interested in finding new ways of doing things than doing things well.

Damage ,

Eh, many automatics nowadays just have electrical switches to change between p, n, d and so on, if those break it’s the same… Normally a switch would be more reliable still than a screen, but this is Tesla we’re talking about…

Jramskov ,

Nope, there are alternative buttons, but I agree it’s not an improvement that they have removed the stalks.

HonoraryMancunian ,

Holy shit that shouldn’t be legal

AA5B ,

It’s actually one of my biggest gripes …. Washer and single wipe are on a control stalk but wiper speed is on touch screen.

I think the theory is that wipers are automatic so you don’t usually need to control them manually, but that automation doesn’t work very well or maybe the rain sensor doesn’t work very well

maynarkh ,

The problem with automation is usually that while it can do 90% of the cases well, and that’s where it brings value, for safety critical stuff, like critical car components, there needs to be a way to quickly and easily override it.

In the 1994 Ford Mondeo I used to drive, if a truck with a poorly secured load and a questionably awake driver was barreling down the highway at 110-120 in a rainstorm, if I wanted to get the car ready to pass, it was one move to click the wiper into “wipe for your life” mode before the truck started to powerblast the windscreen with water splashing up from the tires.

I’m not sure if I could do that in a Tesla, especially since if it does it only when it would already be needed, that’s too late. And the thing is, even if the automation did work, how do I know 100% it does work when I do something that would be dangerous if it did not work?

AA5B ,

Actually just now on my way home discovered a new feature ….

If I click the button for a single wipe, it also pops up the wiper dialog on the touch screen, so all the configurations are right there. You have to act fast before it disappears , so it’s possible that it’s always been there but I didn’t look at the screen right after pressing the button. Anyway, that greatly simplifies the process. While the controls are still touch screen at least I don’t have to click through the menu to find the controls

sky ,

You can use the left scroll wheel on your steering wheel to adjust the wipers once you’ve pressed for a single wipe. Just click it right for more, left for less. No need to look at the screen at all really. There’s a little graphic on the wiper controls showing you this.

AA5B , (edited )

Is that what the little arrows onscreen are meant to say? I’ve been trying to click on them, since it is a touchscreen and I expect to click on controls

Edit: sweet . Thanks for the tip. I think the timeout was just too fast for me to have discovered it

marx2k ,

…while you’re driving…

Jramskov ,

I’d be okay with it if the auto wiper function worked great, but they decided to drop the rain sensor and use the autopilot cameras for it instead and they simply haven’t been able to make it work.

AA5B ,

Temperature control or defrost

In my Subaru, hvac is three large distinctive knobs I can use without looking. In my Tesla, it’s more automatic so I need to change it less, but it’s all in touch screen menus

iheartneopets ,

Cherish that Subaru, because it’s not that way in them anymore. At least, not in ours, which was purchased in 2021. Now hvac is all touch screen; it’s awful.

Damage ,

When even the Japanese car makers fall to the temptation of stupid gimmicks, the whole industry must be at a crisis point

scytale ,

I have a 2024 Subaru and the A/C contols are on the screen now as well. The temp control and defrost are still buttons though, so while I would prefer physical buttons, the current setup is manageable and I’ve gotten used to it. I just make sure to set everything before driving, then use the physical temp controls to adjust when needed.

Damage ,

TBH my old Subaru’s auto climate control is so good I never change it from auto 20.5°C.

scytale ,

I actually want to use the auto so I can just set and forget. The problem is, at least for my 2024 model, it turns on the foot vents as well. I wish you could set it to auto but only using the face vents.

iheartneopets ,

The problem is that even the fan speed settings/airflow settings are touch now, which require divided attention while driving to adjust. That defrost button turns the setting on full fucking blast, when most of the time there’s no call for that, so I have to look and find the fan speed part of the touch screen. Adjusting the temp is only one small part of climate control in the cab. Plus, if you start out your drive with the seat warmers on, but now they’re sweating you out while driving, you have to navigate into a separate menu via touch to turn them off.

Not to mention the never ending battle of adjusting the brightness via touch if it’s blinding my eyes while driving at night VS barely being visible during the day.

It’s all just so frustrating, and I wish there were at least options to take the damn thing out.

scytale ,

I get it, I wish the fan speed setting was a physical dial as well. Having said that, after 2 months of driving, I pretty much was able to figure out a routine where 99% of the time, I just need to adjust the temp and not have to fiddle with the fan speed. It’s not ideal of course, but stil better than literally everything on the screen like a tesla.

For the 2024 models at least, the heated seats are now controlled by switches next to the shifter, so no need to go through the screen to adjust or turn them on/off.

I personally haven’t had issues with the brightness, probably because my windows are tinted, so I can make it bright enough for visibility during the day, and not too bright at night at the same time.

Your complaints are valid though, and I agree, all hvac controls should be physical switches/dials.

Emerald ,

Now im imagining a spaceship with all the controls only on one big touchscreen

Hamartiogonic ,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

Imagine what happens one morning when you’re having your morning coffee while walking to the big screen. You suddenly slip, and the coffee mug hits the display, decorating it with a spider web of cracks and a splatter of coffee. I hope you can make it to the next space station using nothing but voice commands.

Emerald ,

No, you cannot use the voice commands because you didn’t log in with Google.

Fishytricks ,

If its Google, it would already been cancelled

Hamartiogonic ,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

Just before arriving to the orbit of Callisto, Google Landing AI got discontinued. Fortunately, Google Thruster is still operational, so we’ll just have to use the manual override to land safely. Let’s hope Google doesn’t kill that project any time soon.

XTL ,

That would be the starship Enterprise.

candybrie , (edited )

There’s actually a good number of things: windshield wipers, blinkers, cruise control, climate control, defrost, headlights, hazards, and gear (prndl). You’d be surprised at which of these some companies have tried to put on the touch screen.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Not really a “win” for anyone since it’s nothing but a suggestion:

Euro NCAP is not a government regulator, so it has no power to mand

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines
    •