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18107 ,

I have a prototype self driving system in my car. It drives logically and consistently, but it doesn’t behave like a human.

This would be a really helpful feature as self driving becomes more common.

noxy ,
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

I was just thinking, gosh, it’s been awhile since a new car signal dropped. This is a super interesting idea - not sure if it’s a GOOD idea but seems worth exploring

ItsMeSpez ,

I think it’s a pretty good idea, at least for this period of transition towards self-driving vehicles. I think it’s useful information for other drivers to know that the vehicle is being controlled by a computer and not a real human.

noxy ,
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

Agreed! I would welcome that bit of additional information about a car I’m sharing the road with.

MrBusiness ,

Kinda disagree, at least in the US the trogs are going to purposely mess with these vehicles as they already do but easier to target. But at least other countries don’t have lowbrow coal rollers.

grandkaiser ,

But at least other countries don’t have lowbrow coal rollers.

Every nation has its idiots, definitely not unique to the US

MrBusiness ,

True but something like rolling coal on people I just find uniquely stupid

NikkiDimes ,

My stupid ass car has brake checked people while self driving. I wish it had this…

NigelFrobisher ,

The point of the lights obviously being to push the responsibility onto the drivers around the self-driven car, rather than the manufacturer who actually made the faulty autopilot.

makingStuffForFun ,
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

Blue bubbles?

adaveinthelife ,

Just seeing a turn signal on a Mercedes or BMW is enough for me to assume the driver isn’t the one in control.

thorbot ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    sebinspace ,

    Woooooosh

    Noedel ,

    That or it not being double parked.

    Maggoty ,

    And I live in California. Of course we’re going to help rich people avoid all consequences of their actions. Because paying attention to where your 1 ton metal missile is going is too much to ask. But only if you can afford the turquoise lights.

    mob ,

    I don’t think I understand how adding safety indicators to elevate awareness of self driving vehicles helps rich people avoid all consequence.

    As a poor person, I’d like to know if a car I’m driving by is self driving.

    Maggoty ,

    Mercedes is a luxury brand. And as the article states, in California and Nevada drivers will get a legal pass on distracted driving if the system and lights are on.

    So the drivers of these luxury cars are no longer responsible for what the car does.

    mob ,

    The article says they are allowed to test the new indicators in those States, not that they get a legal pass…

    In California, the permit will let Mercedes-Benz trial turquoise lights on test vehicles for two years. In Nevada, the automaker can start adding the feature to 2026 year production vehicles

    Do you think it’s a better scenario for less awareness of self driving cars? If self driving is part of the future, this seems like a reasonable step imo.

    Maggoty ,

    Go read the article again then. There’s a whole section about distracted driving.

    mob ,

    Ive read those 7 paragraphs a couple times now, and I don’t see anything about getting a legal pass. Maybe you could quote it for me?

    I have missed things due to ads covering things up on mobile on the past.

    Maggoty ,

    As a Level 3 system, the driver is permitted to take their hands off the wheel, their feet off the pedals, and divert their attention away from the road. Most other driving systems require you to keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention. With Drive Pilot engaged, users are free to browse the Internet or watch videos on the vehicle’s central display.

    To be fair I’ve had that happen with ads too and it’s infuriating.

    Grimy ,

    That isn’t at all what you were saying buddy

    Maggoty ,

    If the state says you can look away from the road. How are they going to prosecute you for looking away from the road?

    Grimy ,

    Yeah that’s a good point

    mob ,

    Oh my bad. I somehow thought you were implying the light was going to give them the pass… You are talking about self driving cars in general though.

    That’s been a thing though, would you like that progress to stop? I guess /fuckcars is a real popular movement online so we can have different opinions on that.

    Maggoty ,

    No, this is the first level 3 system. With Teslas, for example, you are still required to act as a driver in every way except actually providing input. You have to have your hands on the wheel and be ready to brake at any time.

    mob ,

    I understand. Self driving is making progression, and I can understand the concern.

    Like I said, I thought you were saying the indicator was the issue, not the self driving. I don’t know the facts behind self driving, and it’s definitely above my paygrade, so I have no room to give opinions. I think progression is cool though, if it’s proven safe

    To be fair though, you did skip the limitations.

    that can only be used in limited situations and in certain (geo-fenced) areas, like in heavy traffic on select highways at speeds of 40 MPH or less. Drive Pilot is also limited to daytime use and during clear weather, and cannot be used in construction zones. Furthermore, the driver is not allowed to fall asleep or leave the driver’s seat

    Maggoty ,

    I did, because even at 40 mph a car is deadly.

    noxy ,
    @noxy@yiffit.net avatar

    The article states no such thing.

    Maggoty ,

    As a Level 3 system, the driver is permitted to take their hands off the wheel, their feet off the pedals, and divert their attention away from the road. Most other driving systems require you to keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention. With Drive Pilot engaged, users are free to browse the Internet or watch videos on the vehicle’s central display.

    Come on dude.

    noxy ,
    @noxy@yiffit.net avatar

    That describes how the system works. Does not describe liability implications. Which I am really interested in learning about, so if you know of some other source that goes into detail around liability after a crash while this system is engaged, please share it.

    Maggoty ,

    If the government specifically allows you to look away from the road, how can they then prosecute you for looking away from the road?

    noxy ,
    @noxy@yiffit.net avatar

    Exactly the question I have, and it remains unanswered.

    feecoomeeq ,

    I think it would be also cool to have an indicator if the car in front of you has cruise control on

    Grimy ,

    That would be great for the driver himself. The amount of times I’ve had to play leap frogs with someone only to be given a dirty look when hes the one that constantly slows down and accelerates.

    ULS ,

    Watch this turn into a status thing that starts trending.

    Epzillon ,

    As someone living in a country which haven’t seen any self-driving cars I’d just be a lot more cautious/careful if I’d ever get close to anything with those lights.

    Knocturnal ,

    AI with all those sensors prob drives better than many city drivers I interact daily changing lanes and doing parallel parking.

    danque ,
    @danque@lemmy.world avatar

    And don’t forget the human panic response. One of my primary reasons to only allow ai driving. People that kick on the gas in an emergency situation should not be allowed to drive ever, unless hitting the gas was the right choice of course. But seeing people not stop but hit the gas in a panic is the worst thing to see happening.

    LifeInMultipleChoice ,

    Years ago (maybe 2009ish) my mother got rear ended 4-5 times by the same person at a red light. They hit her, and kept accidentally hitting the gas instead of the brake over and over. It probably happens more often than we think… but there will always be people lying to themselves and others that they are good drivers.

    Maggoty ,

    California has had several high profile problems with self driving cars. This is going to be a disaster, physically and politically. This is literally just rich people buying a legal defense for hitting pedestrians. There’s going to be outrage the first time it happens and it turns out the driver wasn’t even looking at the road, or was drunk.

    Knocturnal ,

    Ofc there are gonna be issues but I kinda asume drunk driver and person who lack observation has lower chance of hitting someone with car that has any kind of assistance. There are prob more times driving assistance helped than caused problem.

    Maggoty ,

    Sure, but that shouldn’t absolve them of responsibility. They should still be required to pay attention and apply the brakes or take control if required. These systems do not have a 100 percent safety record. So to say we don’t need the human as a check anymore is bonkers.

    Gestrid ,

    “I have the turquoise checkmark light on my car, and you don’t.”

    therealjcdenton ,

    That’s actually a fantastic idea

    KpntAutismus ,

    tells me what cars i need to be extra careful around.

    yes i know people are horrible at driving, but at least the average person is predictable.

    Rule #1: constant foresight and respect to other drivers

    Rule #2: Expect mistakes, illegal u-turns, and people taking right of way

    HexesofVexes ,

    Aye, credit where it’s due; this is a great way to differentiate between human and machine controlled devices. It’s detectable by both, and can help in cases where people blame the autodrive, or car companies claim human error.

    mlg ,
    @mlg@lemmy.world avatar

    Do the same thing, but hook it up to a camera that detects if your eyes are on the road lol.

    KredeSeraf ,

    Most FSD cars have that. People just ignore the warnings and popups.

    aStonedSanta ,

    The car should pull over then. Lol

    KredeSeraf ,

    Should, but when has that ever stopped businesses from doing what is cheap/easy?

    jo3shmoo ,

    My aftermarket Openpilot setup does this with a camera pointed at the driver. I’m good about paying attention but apparently if it alerts too many times that you’re distracted it will disable itself until you restart the car.

    froh42 ,

    The reason for these lights is that Mercedes has Level 3 autonomy, so the car can self drive without the driver taking attention - for example here in Germany it is illegal (and there are photo traps) to use your phone on while driving. The lights are a solution to the exemption that you are allowed to use your phone while your car is on Level 3 autonomy.

    On level 3 you need to be able to take over again within 30 seconds after the car actively asks you to do so.

    KpntAutismus ,

    30 seconds is a LOT of time.

    Maggoty ,

    Yeah that last bit. That’s unacceptable for at least another decade. Drivers should be responsible for their vehicles at all times.

    leviathan3k ,

    The level 3 autonomy is under extremely limited circumstances, which are basically on the bighway under 40 mph. These are basically the safest possible conditions to have level 3, and it is the right place to start.

    Maggoty ,

    I’m not against them starting it. I’m against them telling the drivers they can take their hands off the wheel, their feet off the pedal, and watch media on the center console. We aren’t there yet.

    froh42 ,

    Level 3 autonomy is exactly that. Mercedes allows you to do other things than driving in specific situations like specific (!) highways etc.

    BMW also has Level 3 on low speeds on specific highways.

    This is not autonomy in all situations but only during the day, no rain etc.

    For limited situations the car fully takes over and in case of an accident it is legally Mercedes’ or BMW’s responsibility not the driver.

    That specific situation is indicated by the lights.

    It will not drive autonomously in a city or so or where pedestrians are.

    Assman ,
    @Assman@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I for one would like to know when another car isn’t being driven by a human.

    Steve ,

    Eventually the reverse will be equally important. So this will be a good idea for decades at least.

    quo ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    KpntAutismus ,

    because the’re mostly tested under extremely safe conditions, and current self driving regularly asks you to take back over (you also have to still pay attention and have your hands on the wheel) which makes it level 2. by definition, the human is driving.

    Poem_for_your_sprog ,

    I’ll just stick some turquoise lights on my car

    vaultdweller013 ,

    If your car is obviously old and you just bought some shitty magnetic tow lights and simply swapped the color it would be extra funny.

    AA5B ,

    Seems like a bad idea - you know someone is going to figure out how to take advantage of that.

    • Scofflaw - ai has no pride or ego so I can cut them off at will and they will always back down
    • scammer - manufacturer has deep pockets - where’s my neck brace?
    KevonLooney ,
    • Scofflaw - Why does the person in the self-driving car care? They’re just chilling. Zooming ahead of other cars doesn’t get you more than a few minutes ahead. If that’s really important to you, you should have left your house a few minutes earlier.
    • Scammer - These cars are covered in cameras and radars. These are the opposite of the cars you want to jump in front of (except Tesla, which sucks). They’ll probably just film you launching yourself from the curb and stop before they hit you. I guess you can get on America’s Funniest Home Videos?
    filcuk ,

    I’m sorry, but I can’t actually imagine that happening where I live.
    Do people who cut others off care who’s driving?

    ridethisbike ,

    He’s referring to a group of people they intentionally cut others off and slam on the brakes to induce an accident that they can sue over. And it happens a lot. Dash cams are saviors.

    otp ,

    I’m sure some people take age, gender, and/or race into consideration when deciding who they can cut off

    witheyeandclaw ,

    You might be giving them too much credit for thinking about what they’re doing.

    otp ,

    Or you might be underestimating the lengths racists would go to just to inconvenience someone who looks like a foreigner

    KrankyKong ,

    I sure don’t

    LazaroFilm ,
    @LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

    Wow I’ve been thinking about that for a while now. We should be able to tell when someone is driving or an Ai is.

    I_Miss_Daniel ,

    This could be useful as a communication medium where the car transmits data through the light to the neighbours.

    el_abuelo ,

    If only there was some kind of universal communication technology that didn’t require line of sight, worked over distances out to say 100m and was reasonably inexpensive to implement…then we wouldn’t need to communicate using the modern equivalent of semaphore.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    But what about the IOT? The 5G! Connect all the things!

    kier ,

    dang, maybe something related with electricity and this crazy magnets we have?

    lolcatnip ,

    Magnets? How do they work?

    postnataldrip ,

    Brb, wiring up a set of these so I can blame the car for missing a speed sign

    LifeInMultipleChoice ,

    … the ticket would still exist. Are you thinking you would be able to send it to your car manufacturer so they can look into what happened?

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