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captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

I tell you something that will make a big difference for titles pre-2005 or so: playing on a CRT television.

Especially on SNES titles which I played a lot as a kid, the extremely sharp look you get from emulators on flat panel displays just looks wrong.

Zink ,

I’m probably in the minority, but I love that crisp sharp look with perfect geometry that you get on a modern display with no filters enabled.

I’ve always been a visually nitpicky person. When I was a kid I tweaked the hell out of the whole 3 setting knobs and switches on my crappy old CRT. In Nintendo Power, the screenshots were taken off nice computer monitors or something and looked so much better.

If kid me got a chance to play ActRaiser or Super Mario World or even NES stuff like Simon’s Quest, in perfect clarity on a big colorful OLED and using an Xbox elite controller, it would have blown my mind. So now I live it up!

I’m not against original hardware if people want to use it though, especially for speed running.

root ,

Those screenshots were taken on Sony studio monitors which are much more precise than home equipment. They’re still available fairly cheap, I picked up a pair a few years ago for $35 each. It’s the best of both worlds.

Valmond ,

How did you take screenshots from a monitor? With a camera?

Usually you just copy the backbuffer, you don’t need a screen to do it.

DarthBueller ,

Nintendo power had tons of images taken directly from photos of CRT‘s. Some of them may have used your Method, but many of them (Especially contests) Specifically asked readers to send in photos to show whether they’ve done certain things.

Valmond ,

You can photograph a TV but making a screenshot was usually done by blitting the backbuffer somewhere.

DarthBueller ,

Did screenshots taken with the method you mentioned have bloom, Like you would see from an image taken from a CRT? I associate bloom in screenshots from being directly Photographed from the CRT.

Valmond ,

I guess you can do both ofc ! And maybe you had to with say the C64. The PS1 you could do it through the devkit IIRC.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

Are there CRT filters to blend the pixels?

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Sort of. They do add things like blur and scan lines, some even distort the frame to try to simulate the bulbous screen of a CRT. But it’s a bit like that VHS filter that Gen Z is so inordinately fond of; it’s artificially emphasizing the worst qualities of the medium, while still not achieving the benefits.

Plus, input lag is real. A lot of modern games are designed to take the lag between the console and the display into account, retro games aren’t. Playing Donkey Kong Country on an LCD TV made me feel like my reflexes had aged 50 years, hauling out my old CRT fixed that (but made my back feel like it aged 50 years).

Ashtear ,

Some filters are better than others for certain tastes. The glow effect on CRT Royale is what gives me the nostalgia buzz, but it looks much better on 4K displays. On my 1080p displays I use a package that adds a bezel for the display to reflect off of which gives me a similar effect.

I’d rather have a native CRT display, but I’m used to larger displays at this point and I couldn’t physically handle anything even in the high 20 inches range.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

I didn’t consider lag. That’s more than aesthetic.

Valmond ,

The artists also took that into account, used it in their favour.

Source: worked with pixel artists early 2000.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

The artists did and the engineers did.

For example, the Apple II achieved 16 onscreen colors via NTSC artifacting. The 8-Bit Guy did a great video on this; programmers could choose like 4 colors, but if you put them next to each other in certain combinations they would turn other colors. Which is why white text would turn green and/or purple at the edges.

The IBM CGA card took it to a whole other level; it had a 4-bit digital RGBI video port for computer monitors and a composite port for televisions. When plugged into an RGBI monitor, you got a sharp picture that would display in one of four four-color palettes: black, white, cyan and magenta, or black, yellow, red and green, both in bright and dark. But if the artist dithered the graphics properly, and the card was plugged into a composite TV or monitor, the same graphics would appear softer, but in 16 colors. Text was harder to read, but games looked better, so business customers could buy an RGBI monitor and gamers could use a TV.

In the 16-bit era, I can cite titles on the SNES and Genesis that took advantage of the limitations of the NTSC standard to get graphical tricks done that the console couldn’t actually do. Like transparent water. I think it’s in Emerald Hill Zone in Sonic the Hedgehog 2, and in some levels of Super Mario World, where you can enter and exit water that is drawn by rapidly jiggling a dithered pattern back and forth. On a CRT television this blurs into a translucent effect, when viewed on an entirely digital monitor it looks like an opaque checkerboard or grille.

Valmond ,

No one is listening to us 😅

DarkMetatron ,

The CRT flicker gives me headache in no time, even with good maintenanced expensive studio monitors. I didn’t had that problem as a kid in the 80s but now as I am older, and used to flicker free flat screen monitors, it is really bad.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

What kills me the worst is how piercingly bright some flat panels are. Even through my astigmatism I’m one of those dark mode all the things kind of guys. CRTs never bothered me, I could stare at a bright white blank Word document all day, but my Gigabyte Gaming panel feels like staring into the sun.

RizzRustbolt ,

I can see the appeal for that… Except for the NES.

I gave my last cartridge blowie a long time ago.

Redkey ,

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to stick to original hardware, if you already have it or can afford to buy it.

Setting up a Pi or other single-board system as a dedicated retro game emulator is also an absolutely valid choice IMO. It’s a fun, generally affordable little project that you can tinker with forever, e.g. changing cases and controllers, UI tweaks, ROM file organization, per-game settings optimization. But I don’t think that it’s ever been the “best” emulation option for anyone who didn’t already have their heart set on “doing something fun and interesting with a Pi”.

The smartphone you already have, dedicated retro gaming handhelds, Android TV boxes or sticks, and cheap/secondhand/already-owned PCs (desktop, notebook, or kiosk) all arguably match or exceed the performance and value-for-money of any Pi-based system.

Yet in any thread where someone new to emulation is asking for advice, there’s always a flock of folks who suggest getting a Pi like it’s the only game in town. It honestly baffles me a little. Especially because almost all of them are just running a pretty frontend over Retroarch, and Retroarch is available for virtually every modern consumer computing platform (and so are a lot of pretty frontends, if that’s a selling point).

For context, I’ve got a dozen or so retro systems, but I prefer to emulate as much as possible.

Trainguyrom ,

Emulation is nice because it removes a lot of the friction between deciding I feel like playing a given game and actually playing it. Dealing with worn out controllers, dead parts, wonky connections just to squint at a fuzzy screen. I much prefer seeing it upscaled on my modern screen and grabbing whatever controller is convenient to play with

MeDuViNoX ,
@MeDuViNoX@sh.itjust.works avatar

That’s really cool and I’m glad people want to maintain the heritage of gaming, but I’m the exact opposite. I never want to play on old hardware or even use old style controllers again if I don’t have to.

Grimpen ,

Some controllers are almost integral to the experience. Intellivision and Colecovision come to mind. Having said that, emulation and modern controls are generally great, and generally my preference.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

It’s difficult to play N64 games without an N64 controller.

Daxtron2 ,

I like to use controllers that have new tech but the old layout for the beat of both worlds

Trainguyrom ,

This is kinda sacrilege, but old games kinda suck by modern standards. They lack a lot of quality of life stuff that has long since become standard and tend to be more focused on providing a difficult and frustrating experience.

There seems to be a sweet spot in the early 2000s 2D games and later 00s 3D games, where games started to become more forgiving, included meaningful mechanics, and the graphics were getting good enough that you’re not just squinting to try to figure out what this blob is supposed to be. Plus that’s also the timeframe that a lot of current major franchises were started or at least got perfected so you’re now digging into current franchises backlogs

nek0d3r ,
@nek0d3r@lemmy.world avatar

I have a friend like this, I’m a Nintendo collector and enjoying the hardware is my hobby. I know it’s an expensive endeavor, and I don’t expect anyone else to do it. I genuinely think any game should be up for piracy and emulation support, and it’s incredible what can be done to make games look, sound, and play better than the original. But when I’m sitting there having fun with Metroid Fusion on my GBA SP and you sit there going “why would you ever do that when emulating is cheaper and better” I don’t think you’re conversing in good faith.

nek0d3r ,
@nek0d3r@lemmy.world avatar

Side note, if anyone knows how I can play Splatoon on an emulator using my Wii U gamepad, I’m all ears lol

JPAKx4 ,

Do you have original hardware? I hacked my Wii u recently and it’s so easy. Pretendo just let’s you play like normal, no problems

nek0d3r ,
@nek0d3r@lemmy.world avatar

Definitely, I think there was even a hacked splatfest at one point, which would be SO cool to do regularly. I just meant to say that, as far as I’ve seen, the gamepad can’t easily be used to play with if you were to emulate.

mightyfoolish ,

Are you trying to use your gamepad as a second screen while you emulate Wii U games on your PC? Unfortunately, I don’t think that has been done yet. I believe the Wii U uses Wifi to send video to the gamepad and no one has made PC software to handle that yet (to my knowledge).

I had heard of people using the Gamepad to mirror the game playing on their PC.

If you are trying to use your gamepad as a second monitor for Wii U games you would probably have better luck getting a Steamdeck (Youtube link may contain helpful comments).

I sold my Wii U already so I don’t think I can be of actual help to you.

nek0d3r ,
@nek0d3r@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, effectively I’d want to use it as you could on Wii U, both displaying the second screen and interacting with the touchscreen. Splatoon in particular is extremely underrated with second screen use, being able to see and interact with the map in real-time is so much more useful than blocking your screen in future Splatoon games

BigPotato ,

The best of both worlds, I’ve got Flash Carts for all my retro consoles and I’m (slowly) working on ODEs for the others! In the cases where an ODE removes the disc drive, I have secondary consoles! My partner hates that the entertainment stand is covered in video games but loves that most of the boxed games are in storage!

Fondots ,

A dream project for me, when I have the space for it, is to have a set of Ikea kallax shelves with a cubby for each retro console with some LEDs inside hooked up to a retropie emulating those consoles so those cubbies light up when that console is being emulated.

I have a lot of the actual consoles and they’re in working order, but it’s a bit of a pain in the ass to get them hooked up, swap cartridges, etc. sometimes. And I have just enough programming and electronics background that I feel up to the task of trying to make it work, just don’t have the space for a big display shelf at the moment.

I can appreciate the experience of playing on the actual hardware and the cases where it’s superior, but for me the experience emulating them is 99% as good with significantly less effort. Totally cool if others prioritize things differently though.

The_Picard_Maneuver OP ,
@The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world avatar

That’s an amazing idea…

Fondots ,

Yeah, I like to bring it up and put the idea out into the world whenever I get an opportunity because part of me is kind of hoping that maybe someone out there will do the hard work and write the code and share it online so someday when I have the space for it all I have to do is wire up the lights

Also when it comes time to fill in the gaps in my collection, I can save some money and still get the same effect because the console doesn’t even have to be in working order, it just has to not be too beat-up looking. I could probably even 3d print some dummy consoles to hold me over (though of course I’d prefer to have actual working consoles if possible)

The_Picard_Maneuver OP ,
@The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not super techy, but I have an idle raspberry pi and tons of retro consoles… The idea is now in my head.

Fondots ,

If you take up the project and decide to make my dream your reality, all I ask is that you share the code

I haven’t done a deep dive into how I’m going to make it happen, my programming is rusty as all hell, and I’ve never tinkered too much with a pie or this kind of project

But on its surface it seems like an easy enough problem, just need to turn on the appropriate lights when an emulator starts.

Easier said than done I’m sure, I also suspect you’d probably need some kind of led controller or maybe an Arduino or something between the pie and the lights, I don’t think the 3.3v it puts out from its GPIO pins would be enough for some light strips.

If someone had a lot of money to throw at the project, I imagine you could also do a pretty cool setup with smart lights like Philips Hue that would be pretty clean and require minimal tinkering with the physical electronics side of things, but you’d probably be throwing as much or more at it in bulbs as the rest of the project put together.

fernandu00 ,

30 bucks?! Where?!

mightyfoolish ,

To be fair the meme just says “Raspberry Pi”. Nothing about the four or five! 😂

fernandu00 ,

O wouldn’t dream of buying a pi 5…a pi 3 is like a month’s salary in my country (damn shitty hole) so if you have a 3 selling by 30 dollars I’d try to buy.

mightyfoolish ,

Sorry, I don’t have any rpis. Is it possible for eBay or AliExpress to ship to your country? I see Rpi 3 on these sites for $30 to $36.

kittenzrulz123 ,

I feel like its the opposite, people keep talking about how original hardware is “better” despite old consoles and games being so expensive a proper collection is basically a luxury.

specialseaweed ,

Something about the wire on a NES controller that makes it feel right.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

I never really cared until I emulated Super Mario RPG and literally could not make a specific jump in Booster’s Castle because of the frame skipping. I never have any trouble on an actual SNES there. Can’t ever make it emulated. :/

Mozingo ,
@Mozingo@lemmy.world avatar

Why do you even have frameskipping enabled on a snes game? Surely you can emulate it at full speed?

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Can’t turn it off on the android version of snes9x, where I usually emulate retro games.

mightyfoolish ,

I would try RetroArch personally. It’s more complicated to set up (due to it being a mult-system emulator) but the pay off is worth it.

DadVolante ,
@DadVolante@sh.itjust.works avatar

There’s also emulation station for Android now, as well! On top of retroarch, it makes for a great experience

mightyfoolish ,

Emulation Station is such a better way to launch games compared to RetroArch. I didn’t know it got an Android port, thank you. Is there something like emudeck on Android to even make the process even more easier?

DadVolante ,
@DadVolante@sh.itjust.works avatar

Not that I’m aware of. Still easy though. Download arch, download Emulation station, then play to your heart’s content

Redkey ,

I have been emulating many different systems (including SNES) on lots of platforms, and have almost never been bothered by lag in the emulation itself.

But one day someone was harping on about lag in an SNES game, so I loaded it up (Android RA SNES9x core) just to double-check before arguing with them… and indeed found the lag quite noticeable. But I also found two ways to reduce the lag significantly.

The first thing is to try different cores. There are multiple versions of SNES9x available on most versions of Retroarch, and there’s a reason for it. The different cores can give surprisingly different results for a single game.

The second thing (which had the greater impact for me) is to enable Retroarch’s look-ahead emulation for one or two frames. Just as it sounds, this will cause the core to emulate the next n frames with every possible combination of inputs. It increases the processing requirements exponentially, but for something like the SNES, many platforms can handle it. I know it seems counterintuitive (if it can emulate hundreds or thousands of possible frames in realtime, why can’t it do just one?) but it worked for me. It must be some kind of throughput vs. latency thing.

Mozingo ,
@Mozingo@lemmy.world avatar

Sorry, that’s almost it but they don’t emulate hundreds or thousands of frames, you’re right in thinking that would be implausible. Basically what happens is retroarch makes a savestate every frame and keeps a running list of the last few. When you press a button, retroarch will load one of those states from a few frames ago, press the same button then, then disable video and re-emulate those “rewound” few frames in fast forward. Then once it’s caught up to the present it re-enable video rendering. The end result is that you see the effect of your input happening the frame after you press it, instead of the normal input delay of 2 or more frames. It’s pretty neat. But yea, this means that they’re only emulating an extra 3-5 frames or so not hundreds, and they only have to do it when you press a button, not all the time.

Redkey ,

Ah, that makes much more sense. Thanks!

ATDA ,

Both are awesome.

One for general use, not scuffing up my gear or games, travel, etc.

The other when I want to really have a beer and just retro out for an afternoon.

ArmokGoB ,

Can it emulate Crysis?

Crashumbc ,

Probably, but at one frame a minute…

callouscomic ,

How well does it emulate Metal Gear Solid 4?

kibiz0r ,

Miyoo Mini

https://midwest.social/pictrs/image/fa3cce2f-6b80-4eba-bddd-feb78f1ec24d.gif

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