There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

Has google stopped working for finding anything?

Google search failed to even find a hollywood movie, even after 1 hour of attempts. I don’t really care about the movie, but I am terrified by the prospect that google now ceased to function on this basic level. Why is this happening?

I understand the explanations of seo and other stuff like spam content. But why are there NO relevant results at all.

I wouldn’t mind having to start wading through results at page 2 or even 10 but now it utterly fails to find even the most basic things.

Things you found on the first attempt even just a year ago. Now they are effectively hidden.

To me functionally the entire internet has now vanished. I cannot access anything that I am searching for. Might as well not exist at all.

Has anybody found a way around this?

Is this on purpose? Is this an attack on the free internet, herding people to just the top 5 sites like facebook, youtube, tiktok, and so forth?

Are there search engines that still work?

Supervisor194 ,
@Supervisor194@lemmy.world avatar

Everybody is blaming SEO, which is true - but Google is also hamstrung by walled gardens.

Before Facebook, most content posted to the web was open. It could be viewed by anyone without logging in. Reddit even uses this paradigm.

But then Facebook started putting everything behind their account login and suddenly, Google can no longer spider a significant amount of the conversation going on on the Internet - and it can’t link you to it either, because the link would be dead if you weren’t a logged-in Facebook user. And of course it’s not just Facebook.

This is why appending site:reddit.com has come into fashion in the past couple years. Reddit, being open, viewable without a login, is a fantastic source for finding people who are talking about exactly what you’re searching for.

And it’s another reason why Meta is cancer: all the conversations going on about whatever problem you are experiencing that made you do a search in the first place, if they exist in private groups on something like Facebook - they are useless to you and useless to anyone but the members of that private group. We are losing our giant public knowledge base because capitalism.

Aurix ,

You really need to add Discord to this list as it is soaking up gigantic amounts of information about video games as a forum replacement. One could argue for actual community games like MMO’s it is perhaps slightly different, but for the majority it is a huge problem.

Dkarma ,

But u can login to discord and if the room is public you can see the content. Even if ur logged into FB if ur not in the private group u can’t see the content.

Dozzi92 ,
@Dozzi92@lemmy.world avatar

I think the point is you can’t put a search term into a search engine and get results from some random Discord. No body is going to go trawling through Discords to then use the search function to potentially find information from it. Now, if chats were somehow archived and could then be searchable, different story, but I don’t think that’s what people using Discord want from Discord.

mesamunefire ,

In 10 years, when we move off discord for “the next big thing” all that info will be gone yet again. It happened to slack and it will most likely happen to discord. None of it will be indexed too. Fun times.

nilloc ,

Where are the data hoarders when you need them?

FractalsInfinite ,

Tools for backing up servers already exist: github.com/Tyrrrz/DiscordChatExporterBut unfortunately discord can’t be easily scraped in one coordinated attempt unlike reddit due to the massive number of private servers and existing verification/anti-bot mechanisms. As a result, only the communities that have data hoarders will be actually archived.

caseyweederman ,

Reddit keeps asking me to use their app and they are very clearly making the mobile browser version worse and worse.
Just last week I couldn’t view a thread I found on Google without signing in. It wasn’t adult content and didn’t require verifying my age. The reason given was very vague and had something to do with the content not being vetted (despite being old).

The Reddit garden wall is already here and is currently being rolled out. For your own good, of course.

CommanderCloon ,

I use a browser extension to redirect to old reddit, which doesn’t have all this crap yet

Nastybutler ,

Which extension?

heyfrancis ,
@heyfrancis@lemmy.ml avatar

There are some extensions you can try - duckduckgo.com/?q=old+reddit+extension+firefox&t=…

But I’m using LibRedirect - libredirect.github.io

If you’re using Firefox mobile (Android), you could try this github.com/octonezd/oldlander

FlatFootFox ,
@FlatFootFox@lemmy.world avatar

The signal to noise ratio has seemed particularly out of wack with Google lately. The amount of blog spam SEO nonsense that crops up into the top 4 results has been pretty noticeable.

I’m not sure it’s entirely a Google thing. Reddit’s decline has made it harder to find quick answers for, “My washing machine’s making this weird string of beeps?” Niche hobbies moving from forums to Discord chats means, “How do I safely remove a keycap without damaging the switch?” is becoming a pinned message in a server you have to hear about via word of mouth. Basically any technology troubleshooting topic has moved from a blog post / forum to a YouTube video. And a 10 minute long one at that. Gotta hit those higher ad tiers.

For what it’s worth, I’m starting the new year off giving Kagi a try. It’s a startup trying to make a paid search engine work. You get 100 free searches to give it a try. After that it’s $5/mo for 300 searches, or $10/mo for unlimited. I’m not sure I’ll sign up for it just yet, but it seems pretty nice. No ads, custom components for things like Stack Overflow and Reddit, and some other nice touches for people who care about search. Their image search actually has a “View Image” link in addition to the “View Page” link. It’s hard to quantify how “good” a search result is, but I’ve been pretty impressed with it so far.

antonim ,

The last part of your comment sounds like an ad straight out of those overlong YT videos.

xantoxis ,

Kagi is very good and I’m happy to be paying for it, but you were right in your second paragraph. It’s not all google. Signal to noise in the web has gone way off. We need to throw out this Internet, it’s gone bad

send_me_your_ink ,

Story time! There is series by Tad Williams called “otherland” - it’s a rift in the standard stuck in vr story.

Anywho. There is a group of hackers, weirdos and nerds who did not like the corporate vr experience and built their own (treehouse). In all honesty it’s an expansion of the tor project.

But it’s what I hope for. A place to end up in the web that’s not saturated to hell and back by corporate interests, and you need to know someone for the ladder to be let down and you to be let in.

merc ,

Google search failed to even find a hollywood movie

Do you understand what a difficult problem this is though? You’re searching for a movie without knowing the title, the release year, the studio, the actors, or anything else.

The medium you actually want to search is the entire back catalogue of Hollywood movies. And, we’re talking the movies themselves – not text, but motion pictures, audio and video. Finding a way to search audio-visual content is extremely challenging because you effectively need a computer to “watch” the movie and understand it.

Failing that, a second-best way to accomplish what you want is to search the movie scripts that were used to film the movie. That’s a much easier problem in that they’re text. But, it’s a hard problem because the movies, the scripts, etc. are all owned by Hollywood studios who are notoriously against any new technology they don’t control, that changes the paradigm in any way, etc.

If that isn’t possible, the only remaining way of doing this task is to search through the web for commentary about the movie. For a big movie that made millions and has tons of reviews you might have some luck, because there might be a body of text that reflects what happens in the movie. You’re basically relying on reviewers / discussions translating the audio-visual medium of the film into text that the search engine can find and index. But, you need enough discussions of the movie to make that possible.

A user here actually recognized your description of the plot and identified the movie as “John Dies at the End”. Again, without relying on someone who has seen the movie, can you imagine how hard this would be for a search engine to do? It would have to watch and listen to something in an audio-visual medium, and understand what it saw enough to form a plot summary. Instead, you were lucky enough to come across a human who had seen and remembered the movie.

But, the movie you were searching for shows why it was so hard to find. This is a 2012 movie that grossed $141,951 according to IMDB, with an opening weekend of $12,467. This movie made $0.1 million, meaning almost nobody saw it. If you had known that Paul Giamatti and Clancy Brown were in it, you probably could have found it relatively quickly by searching their IMDB pages. But, as an aside, it’s pretty amazing they did a movie that was made on such a tiny budget. Normally just getting one actor like that would blow through hundreds of thousands.

Anyhow, I think what has happened is that SEO has become better, walled gardens have blocked off Google from indexing huge areas of the web, and, most importantly, people’s expectations have become much higher. Back when John Dies at the End was released, nobody would have expected to be able to find a movie based on searching for a vague description of the plot, unless they were using the exact right keywords and expected to find reviews using those keywords.

The kinds of things major search engines can do today are frankly like magic. You can search for a vague description like “actress who was in the movie with the blue people”, and holy shit, of the text links, Avatar’s Wikipedia page is the first one, and Zoe Saldaña’s is the second. I mean, just stop for a second and think about how amazing that is.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

I mean, I used to be able to ask Google “hey, what’s that song that goes do do do do do do do” and it very often got it right. With just text, mind you; not the assistant and humming some bars. That seems like it should be just as hard as figuring out what movie I’m talking about with a plot description, which is usually summed up on IMDB or Wikipedia well enough that OP should not have had much issue finding it.

elxeno ,

Darude - Sandstorm

volvoxvsmarla ,

I used to be able to ask Google “hey, what’s that song that goes do do do do do do do” and it very often got it right

You just got me trying to find that one song I heard in an indie disco 11 years ago that goes like “candy canes and apples” again… and again I failed.

burgers ,

i am struggling to either parse or believe this. you have successfully gotten an answer to the search query “what’s that song that goes do do do do do do do”?

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

It used to be a meme how good it was at doing that.

pbbananaman ,

I swear people here are either too young or didn’t use the internet 8 years ago. All of this stuff was super common to search and get the first result back as the right answer.

linuxPIPEpower ,

was it a qoo wop song?

cabron_offsets ,

Two more “do”s and I’d be certain you’re referring to the final countdown.

gamermanh ,
@gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

A search engine does not have to watch a movie to know things about it, that’s absurd and never how its worked

merc ,

I didn’t say that, read again.

gamermanh ,
@gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

It would have to watch and listen to something in an audio-visual medium, and understand what it saw enough to form a plot summary

I read it again and found that, where you say exactly what you said you didn’t

merc ,

You apparently lack reading comprehension. Try again.

abracaDavid ,

If it’s so difficult, then why was Google able to find the answer to questions exactly like this 6+ years ago?

That was why everyone switched to Google. The search engine just worked.

And frankly a large portion of your post is just incorrect. What you’ve described is how a very bad programmer would build a search engine. It’s overly complicated and requires too much data.

Dethedrus ,

I always love a random Jason Pargin reference ;)

OfficerBribe ,

Agree, assumption that this movie should be found based on OP’s provided description is a bit ridiculous, it all depends on keywords and how unique they are and popularity on medium. Read the summary of this book and found the book later with query “magician monster dimension book movie adaptation”. Keyword magician most likely helped here.

Tried to find Equilibrium with “movie with guns karate” and it was mentioned in first page as well.

systemglitch ,

It got so bad, I mainly use duckduckgo (95%) as of about two months ago

Xabis ,

I don’t get why everyone espouses ddg but shits on bing when bing is the underlying source.

vonbaronhans ,

That explains why my DDG searches have been less than helpful… it’s just as unhelpful as Bing. I usually find myself trying other search engines, but run back to Google when I can’t find anything relevant to the problem I’m trying to solve (most of my googling is tech help stuff).

Xabis ,

Exactly.

As much as I’ve seen threads here on lemmy complaining about how terrible Google search is, Bing isn’t any better.

AlphaOmega ,

The biggest issue I have is that half my results come back as videos. Video results should be in the video tab. I don’t want to watch a half hour long video just to find out how to make a healing brew in ark.
One paragraph would convey the information 10x faster than any video could

ilinamorato ,

But then how would they RETAIN YOUR ATTENTION?

Bgugi ,

Don’t forget to COMMIT WAR CRIMES AGAINST the bell and IRREPARABLY VIOLATE that like button!

flatplutosociety ,
@flatplutosociety@lemmy.world avatar

It’s wild that in the few instances where the generative AI feature would actually work quite well (summarizing lists of distinct instructions), it often pushes long-form video instead.

Pyr_Pressure ,

I fucking despise video results.

But most of them are from YouTube, which surprise surprise, is owned by Google! So they don’t give a damn, it’s promoting their products in spite of the wishes of their consumers.

Kalladblog ,
@Kalladblog@lemmy.world avatar

Exactly the same for shopping results. There’s a designated tab for that as well but often half of the first page tends to be a link to Amazon, ebay or promote a product

Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

I was trying to Google “Best way to shave your head with low or no water pressure” because I was staying somewhere rural for a bit and my razor kept clogging.

All I got were straight razor blog spam and dozens of other completely unrelated shit.

I tried the shake it in a bowl method, 1/10 razor still clogged with hair.

Mathazzar ,

I get specifically pissed at all the AI generated answers.

banneryear1868 ,

Google was really valuable before web services were so monopolized and consolidated like they are now. It’s almost more useful to use the specific websites search function for many things now. Before this, you could run searches and it would have all these personal and small websites indexed. Oh look, here’s a guy who lives his whole life as Peter Pan and has a website about it, cool… now it’s just a profile on some social media site same as anyone else.

merc ,

It’s almost more useful to use the specific websites search function for many things now

Except Amazon’s search of their own store has been so enshittified that it’s normally better to search for a product on Amazon using Google.

this_1_is_mine ,

I do the same except once I find it I go to that specific manufacturer and I buy it directly from their website more often than not

wrekone ,

That’s a good way to do it, whenever possible. Unfortunately most of the results on Amazon these days are from companies with word salad names, like ENGRTSIAL or LOFRABTAN.

SeaJ ,

Do not use Amazon unless you know exactly what you want. The reviews are almost all fake. What’s annoying is that if you search for review sites on a type of product you do not know much about, they funnel you back to Amazon’s “highly rated” ones and get a kickback of you but the no name garbage. Also annoying is that those words salad companies are all the same manufacturer for the most part. They set up a ton of different names to flood the search results and then throw up a bunch of fake reviews. Some of that shit can be dangerous. Louis Rossman just did a video testung out some highly rated fuses and one of them by Nilight did not blow until 5x its amperage rating. That can easily lead to a fire. He also did one on crimping cables a bit ago that absolutely failed to crimp. Amazon removed his negative review.

bjoern_tantau ,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

I’ve finally switched to DuckDuckGo because of this. Even though only about two months ago I said here somewhere that it’s garbage. Google just managed to convince me that they’re more garbage.

coffee_poops ,

That’s because DDG gets its results from Bing.

ebits21 ,
@ebits21@lemmy.ca avatar

I came to the exact same decision a few months ago.

DDG used to be worse; now it’s better.

ColeSloth ,

So you’re using Bing.

WarmSoda ,

It may be bing under the hood, but it gives simple results without having ads and giant boxes everywhere.

CobblerScholar ,

Over the last year of me using DDG as my primary search engine it has noticeably improved, give it another and we might see a trace of that spark Google had

caseyweederman ,

I find my DDG results are only getting worse with time.
Same problem as with Google, and then some.
Carefully craft search string and submit.
Click through to a result, scroll and try to find the part that addresses my question.
Get frustrated and Ctrl+F for the active part of my search string.
Don’t find it.
Hit back to search results to repeat (but now the results are shuffled for some reason?)
Eventually give up and put the active parts into quotes to force their inclusion.
Same results.

Why am I getting these results if they don’t even match my search string?

KpntAutismus ,

been using duckduckgo for a while now. it definetely could be better, but google is just hot garbage.

Rhynoplaz ,

I’m really surprised that you couldn’t find a Hollywood movie in an hour. Can I ask what the movie was? Was there a specific question you couldn’t find the answer for?

jettrscga ,

I understand OP’s sentiment that google’s getting worse, but this sounds like ragebait. No examples of what they searched for an hour.

kaschan ,

I just registered an account here specifically because I’ve noticed it a ton recently and I wanted to reply to this since it’s been on my mind. From my experience, google’s quality has been going down in general for a while now, but very recently (the last few months or so?) it hasn’t been just unusable in a figurative sense, it’s been quite completely literally useless to the point of basically being broken.

I really wish I could remember some specific examples of what I was searching for, but I’ve had more than one experience where it felt like if it couldn’t find something on reddit or wikipedia (which I usually have to give it some assistance anyway with the site: filter), it was like that thing just didn’t exist. It was just pages and pages of what looked like fake AI generated articles that were only maybe slightly adjacent to the topic I was searching for. If it happens again or I can remember a specific case I might try to update my response.

Disclaimer: I use bing 50% of the time depending on which browser profile I have open. No real specific reason here, just that I didn’t bother updating the search engine settings on all profiles. Ironically, bing, which I had always regarded as inferior, does manage to give better results in some cases, but even still I feel like the quality has (somehow?) managed to go down as well.

Lately I’ve been trying to use mojeek, which (to my understanding) unlike other sites like DDG actually has its own crawler whereas most alternatives are just frontends for google/bing. The results are kind of wonky a lot of the time, but at least it’s not so much fake unrelated garbage.

I do have an adblocker on all the time. Perhaps that’s related. Maybe I shouldn’t be surprised that my experience is so shitty given that I’m clearly not their target audience, if we’re just talking about advertising.

Just this morning I noticed that ChatGPT (which I usually hate using) was giving me better results than google. Not just in a little way, the experience was about 100x better. Theory: they’re trashing their search engine product to try to force people onto their “AI” products. Probably not that far-fetched. If they really want to push one product over the other you can either make one product a lot better than the other or make the other product a lot worse.

SkyeHarith ,

Check out Kagi!

kaschan ,

Seen it recommended quite a few times in other comments here as well, will definitely take a look!

dutchkimble ,

Game changer, once you try it you get hooked

MashedTech ,

Yeah, with chatgpt you can search for “thing that was link thing but not like other thing and I think it had these traits” and if it’s not extremely obscure it can find it for you.

wheels ,

unlike other sites like DDG actually has its own crawler whereas most alternatives are just frontends for google/bing

Just so you know, DDG does have its own webcrawler (DuckDuckBot). It takes results from that, and the Bing API, and other sources, to generate results.

Also, they pay Bing for results from the Bing API (which as I understand it gives configurable access to the Bing index) and so even the results that do come out of Bing are quite different than you’d get compared to just a “frontend for Bing”.

kaschan ,

I see, I appreciate the clarification

MintyAnt ,

Welcome!

Mojeek ,
@Mojeek@lemmy.ml avatar

Lately I’ve been trying to use mojeek, which (to my understanding) unlike other sites like DDG actually has its own crawler whereas most alternatives are just frontends for google/bing.

This is correct, there aren’t many, and we recently passed 7.7bn pages. You can actually help with any wonkyness through feedback, but also we have this page which we trial new algos on; there’s a large update sat on it currently.

Raiderkev ,

Duckduckgo.com is my go to solution for when Google wants to give me trash results.

Mighty ,
@Mighty@lemmy.world avatar

yeah no. i am WILLING duckduckgo to work as a search engine, but the results are so bad, it doesn’t do phrases well. i just searched “blue sign construction”, thinking i’d find infos about blue signs in construction sites. literally the whole first site is about “bluesign”, something to do with textile production. and the picture results are 99% just construction signs in all different colours.

Gallardo994 ,

This. One of the reasons I couldn’t use DDG for more than a week, and I still kept using !g inbetween. Kagi is the way to go for me.

omnomed ,
pkill ,

brave or searxng

MadBob ,

I get the feeling this’ll be an unpopular suggestion but I’ve used Ecosia for something like ten years and it’s never failed me. I use Duckduckgo on my Linux laptop because it came bundled and it’s still not worth changing.

Daefsdeda ,

Ecosia has been my standard for a long while now, not realky hear many people mentioning it either.

MadBob ,

I’ve long felt like it gives me better results than Google too but I’ve never really tested that idea!

Daefsdeda ,

When using noscript I see bing in between and I think they make use of their API. But yeah I also have the idea that it works better.

Nadru ,
@Nadru@lemmy.world avatar

I’m using Duckduckgo for a while now. Pretty good

ilinamorato ,

DDG is great for privacy, but their results are mostly just Bing results. Which is usually fine, but rarely excellent.

werefreeatlast ,

It’s a ruzzian company right?

Nadru ,
@Nadru@lemmy.world avatar

I think they’re french ?!

werefreeatlast ,

Perplexity AI says: "Answer No, DuckDuckGo is not a Russian company. It is an American software company based in Paoli, Pennsylvania, United States. It was founded by Gabriel Weinberg and offers a private search engine and other privacy-oriented software products. "

Well, in that case, fuch google, I’m out.

Nadru ,
@Nadru@lemmy.world avatar

Yea don’t look back

vsh ,
@vsh@lemm.ee avatar

For me it’s a bigger hit or miss. I never found what I wanted on DDG.

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Google search failed to even find a hollywood movie, even after 1 hour of attempts.

That’s just not believable. What was your search criteria?

diffcalculus ,

I smell a load of shit from OP

abs_mess ,
@abs_mess@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Like google ain’t great, but like… What were you searching for?

funktion ,

Yeah come on OP let us test what you’re saying.

douglasg14b ,
@douglasg14b@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve had this happen more often recently. An hour, or multiple hours, isn’t unexpected anymore with search engines (not just Google, but Google is the worst offender).

It’s incredibly frustrating.

My job & hobbies involves research 20-30 hours a week, over the last 15+ years. It’s been a gradual decline in quality and usability since 2016 or so. I started complaining about it on forums and reddit, and not many people noticed, or thought the same. Only in the last 5 years or so have I seen others take notice, and even make articles about it.

It’s a real thing, and those of us that do a lot of research for real information that isn’t just today’s news feel it first.

Search engines like Kagi are a light at the end of the tunnel, they tends to actually work.

CosmicCleric , (edited )
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

An hour, or multiple hours, isn’t unexpected anymore with search engines

I’m not debating that search engines are not as good today as they were in the past, but I got to push back hard against the OP, as well as yourself, as far as the temporal measurement in hours, for trying to do a single search.

That’s just not believable. You and the op have to give some real world examples of that.

UnityDevice ,

They’d tell you what the movie was, but they’d have to search for it and don’t want to waste an hour.

Jokes aside, I believe them, I spent close to an hour recently finding a YouTube I knew existed but I could only remember vague details. Ended up having crawl back months though my YouTube history in the end.

It used to be that you could just describe a movie to Google like "movie where " and it would be really good at finding that movie even if it was some obscure one. Now if you’re trying to find that one movie you saw years ago where you just remember one scene, be prepared to spend that hour.

KeenFlame ,

I don’t believe them. And I don’t believe that it’s to save us an hour, but because it’s hyperbolic

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@kbin.social avatar

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Even the CEO has acknowledged this. They serve you what makes THEM the most profits, not what YOU wanted, ever.

For years now, the only way to find something technical related was to add "Reddit" to the search. But then Reddit imploded as well, chasing profits over the needs of its customers.

And Twitter/X likewise is now chasing profits over the needs of its customers, causing many to flee.

As too is happening in so many other places, such as Stack overflow, and most of Hollywood itself was on strike for months, bc they have been chasing profits over the needs of its customers.

Managers think they know better than customers what you want, or at least what you are willing to put up with.

And now they are pushing AI to the rescue, to put even above the SEO results, but soon they'll have to think about actually monetizing those answers, and the cycle will repeat at the level of SEO'd AI answers.

DuckDuckGo works, for now. Maybe one day there will be a hostile takeover and it won't anymore.

Btw this phenomenon is called https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification of the internet - yes that's the official term afaik!!:-)

DJSpunTheDisc ,

Is there any hope of this getting better? I rely on the internet for most of my knowledge so it sounds like I’m doomed.

MashedTech ,

I would be very interested to know exactly what you were searching for.

AmosBurton ,

deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • lrnz92 ,

    Thirded

    Mr_Dr_Oink ,

    The film was “john dies in the end” and OP didnt knownthe title, they were searching for the movie using a description of what they could remember from the film.

    This is something i would very likely do in chat gpt these days.

    winkerjadams ,

    I used to be able to find songs on google just by remembering a few lyrics but now when I try to do that all I find is garbage unfortunately.

    Firipu ,
    @Firipu@startrek.website avatar

    Try to hum the song to Google assistant. Chances are it’ll get it right with just 3-5 seconds of humming. L2use the tools at your disposal tbh

    winkerjadams ,

    I don’t use google assistant and it’s disabled but thanks for being condescending.

    AmosBurton ,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • Firipu ,
    @Firipu@startrek.website avatar

    Install a 3rd party launcher?

    boomzilla , (edited )

    I just read the movie plot (which seems to differ from the book) on wikipedia and searched in a non-logged-in google for “movie horror two friends dimensions drug dealer jamaican”. First result is the wanted movie. What are people searching for that they get such bad results?

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