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We’re now finding out the damaging results of the mandated return to the office–and it’s worse than we thought

Surprising no one but the mgmt teams…

Unispace found that nearly half (42%) of companies with return-to-office mandates witnessed a higher level of employee attrition than they had anticipated. And almost a third (29%) of companies enforcing office returns are struggling with recruitment. In other words, employers knew the mandates would cause some attrition, but they weren’t ready for the serious problems that would result.

Meanwhile, a staggering 76% of employees stand ready to jump ship if their companies decide to pull the plug on flexible work schedules, according to the Greenhouse report. Moreover, employees from historically underrepresented groups are 22% more likely to consider other options if flexibility comes to an end.

In the SHED survey, the gravity of this situation becomes more evident. The survey equates the displeasure of shifting from a flexible work model to a traditional one to that of experiencing a 2% to 3% pay cut.

tym ,

WFH 4lyfe. I can’t believe I used to let yall breathe on me.

curiousaur ,

It’s awesome being at a permanent remote startup that’s hiring right now, we get the cream of the crop that is leaving those other companies right now.

applejacks ,
@applejacks@lemmy.world avatar

Can concur here.

My company, at first, decided to ask everyone to come back into the office.

They were also trying to hire more people, but almost every candidate dropped out once they heard they would be expected to go in.

They’ve now reversed course and let people work from anywhere.

EnderMB ,

I work for the Rainforest company.

I genuinely believe that they are hoping, if not praying that RTO results in a huge chunk of people leaving. Alongside forcing people back to the office, they’re now pushing people to relocate to main offices, and limiting teams from hiring internally.

I’d say the same is for many big companies. They’re absolutely desperate for people to leave in order to cut costs and look lean to investors while they take in record profits.

SargTeaPot ,

I’m a mechanic, I’m yet to find spanners long enough to work from home :(

valen ,
@valen@lemmy.world avatar

Not everyone can have the luxury of working from home. Most knowledge workers can. Cooks and waitstaff, teachers, mechanics, etc. have to work at the “office”.

WheeGeetheCat ,
@WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works avatar

As someone who contributed to the ‘high level of attrition’ during a forced return to office: it was my pleasure and I’ll do it again.

danielbln ,

Thank you for your service (‘-’)7

helixdaunting ,

I regret that I have but one job to quit.

corsicanguppy ,

Same here. Took a 3% pay cut for 2 years and also upgraded my management team from ‘fuckwits’ to ‘really great’. So, win-tax-win.

Onfire ,

I used to do 3 hours round trip commute. I was always exhausted. Can never do that again after i tried work from home.

figaro ,

Fuck that lol. I wake up at 7:55, open my laptop, clock in at 7:56, then bring my laptop into the kitchen and eat breakfast.

Corporations who are pushing the narrative that people don’t like this are out of their mind.

corsicanguppy ,

Don’t pitch a WFH by bragging about how you’re doing personal stuff (breakfast) on work time.

Also, it’s really beneficial to the workflow if you don’t do work in the kitchen, and don’t eat meals in the home office. Get the downtime, and preserve the separation, while also being adequate on your time-management.

chameleon ,

At the office jobs I’ve worked at eating during work hours was fine. Why would WFH be any different? I’m perfectly capable of reading emails and slacks over a bowl of cereal, be it in the office or at home.

TurboDiesel ,
@TurboDiesel@lemmy.world avatar

If you think office drones are 100% productive for all 8 hours I have a bridge to sell you.

There’ve now been several studies showing WFH is a net good for productivity. Instead of hiding in the bathroom to scroll Lemmy, people are taking their 5 minute breaks to do laundry, clean the house, check on the baby - I can’t see how that’s anything but a good thing.

EssentialCoffee ,

When we were in the office, people were in the kitchen at all hours to get something to eat. I’m not sure how that’s any different than home.

it’s really beneficial to the workflow if you don’t do work in the kitchen, and don’t eat meals in the home office.

Who’s workflow? If you have an issue getting your work done, that’s something that you need to address. If someone else isn’t, then why should they change what they’re doing because you have issues?

figaro ,

I bring my laptop to the kitchen and take calls if they come in. I check my email while eating.

I get everything done I need to do. My boss is actually great and encourages us to prioritize being happy, as long as we get everything done in a reasonable amount of time.

Everyone wins this way.

Cyyris ,

I do not WFH and unabashedly eat breakfast at my desk every single day lol.

Not a single person has said a word to me, and my direct supervisor and their supervisor have both seen me doing it. Not a word.

My philosophy has always been - and I’ve told the employees who work under me many times - as long as you complete the tasks assigned to you, and are performing the role that you were hired for, I don’t particularly care what you’re doing in the interim (as long as it’s not something that is explicitly against the Code of Conduct). Giving people a little breathing room, and, ya know, treating them like human beings instead of soulless automatons, goes a long way. My team is generally more productive, and is nearly always the front runner for task resolution times compared to the other offices.

Onfire ,

My old schedule were wake up at 7:10. Out the door by 7:40. Be at the office by 9:00ish. The most painful part if not the 90 min train ride but the 25 stops… I counted those stops for 5 years.

Branny ,

With around 15 years of experience working remote-only, I will never accept a job that mandates a day in the office.

If the role isn’t 100% remote, it is not considered.

Simple as that.

MaDeX ,

That’s fine if your job actually is 100% remote.

MapleEngineer ,
@MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

My job is 100% remote because I won’t accept anything else. I always ask recruiters if 100% flexibility will be written into my contract. If it won’t I withdraw my name from consideration.

Borkingheck ,

I’m assuming you have a set of niche skills not readily available on the market place that must make that easier to enforce?

icesentry ,

Pretty much every programming job can be easily done 100% remotely. You don’t need niche skills for that.

eldavi ,

programming is a niche skill; that’s why it pays so well.

devil_d0c ,

I don’t mean to be contrary, but is it fair to call programming niche when there are degree programs and tech programs (bootcamps) that are widely available? Plus, in some cases, you don’t need a degree or certificates, just a portfolio.

eldavi ,

Boot camps and training programs are popular, but the bar to professionally practicing programming is artificially high and it will remain a nich so long as that bar remains artificially high.

devil_d0c ,

… I mean… I went to a four year university and got a Batchelors. Now I work as a software engineer. How’s that different from any other career path involving a 4 year degree?

Borkingheck ,

If the skills aren’t niche and many people have it, it is easier for an employer to stipulate office work and ignore a candidate demanding remote work.

corsicanguppy ,

That’s like saying “being a lifeguard is only okay if you work near a body of water or a pool.” It goes without saying.

So, no need to state the mind-numbingly obvious?

Branny ,

Lots of people in the industries I’m in are still trapped in offices or have been forced to return in some capacity.

Lots of jobs can’t be done remotely, and I make it a priority to learn enough to avoid them.

PersnickityPenguin ,

I think this is funny, there are a ton of jobs and careers out there that you cannot do remotely. Or, at least the remote aspect suffers.

Every time I read these threads 90% of the posters who are advocating for WFH are programmers who have $25k to drop on a nice shiny home office, and no need to ever interact with another human. Try WFH with a baby for 12 months and you’ll want to jump off of a bridge.

NuPNuA ,

Yeah, bit why shouldn’t jobs that can be done at home be done there even if other jobs can’t? Seems like a very crabs in a bucket mentality.

ada ,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I can’t do my job remotely, but I would if I could. I don’t need to see other people forced in to the office just because I have to come in.

jackofalltrades ,

I am on my second child since starting working from home… Never been more productive, never been less stressed out…

partial_accumen ,

Unispace found that nearly half (42%) of companies with return-to-office mandates witnessed a higher level of employee attrition than they had anticipated.

One aspect these articles don’t usually address beyond the attrition rate, is the quality of those leave is usually the highest. So its a double whammy. Not only are you losing workers, you’re losing your best workers. Those best workers have mobility because they are in demand for their skills or ability to execute. So what an employer is left with is even worse, many of those remaining that are lower skilled or less ambitious so their can’t leave or choose not to because they aren’t interested in high achievement at work.

The company’s most valuable asset is their workers. Return-to-office is a loud screaming message to all the company’s workers that “butts in seats” or extraction of the worker’s dollars for corporate tax cuts from municipalities are more important that the worker’s comfort and preference. That leads to the death of companies.

Stumblinbear ,
@Stumblinbear@pawb.social avatar

I don’t often toot my own horn, but this is basically me. My work is pushing for people to move to LA into the office after being almost fully remote for a few years. I’ve never set foot in LA, and was hired fully remote. They’re struggling to hire junior devs because their frontend is almost wholly custom JavaScript and nearly completely undocumented. They’re currently stuck with expensive senior devs. I could easily take my title elsewhere for more than they’re paying me, but I like the lax work environment enough to stick around.

The last I heard about the move back to office was February, and they just hired more people out of state. I don’t think they’re pushing for it anymore, haha

ultratiem ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

100% this. We literally lost our best and brightest and the end of the pandemic. When I bailed it was B and C grade. Made the last few months very difficult.

It was absolutely brutal!

asdfasdfasdf ,

Not only that, but your best workers often help the others get better, as well as do code reviews, etc. which means the less good workers will also not be as good in the future, and you’ll spend more time fixing their mistakes.

corsicanguppy ,

the quality of those [who] leave is usually the highest.

That’s the Dead Sea Effect. Those who can leave the easiest, do so next in each cycle (once the company crosses the fuckit line). These will be the most valuable.

en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_effect

Pulptastic ,

Many companies, including my previous one, assume their position is stronger than it is. Then they complain and blame millennials’ work ethic when people don’t hang around for their torture like they used to.

ubermeisters ,
@ubermeisters@lemmy.world avatar

SMH people don’t hate thier personal lives enough anymore

-companies

LightningHaqeem ,

At that point, the company called me to help as a hybrid work expert who the New York Times has called “the office whisperer.

Eh - what is this

Key_incite ,

Just had to throw that in there didn’t they? Ha.

synae ,
@synae@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I’m glad they did, it helped me identify a bunch of bullshit

Tylerdurdon ,

I work at a pretty large HQ and they don’t enforce anything either way. In fact, they said we just work from certain states for tax reasons, but beyond that, there’s nothing else. I come in once a week for a change of pace, but prefer the battlestation at home. I have a better setup, less distraction, and tend to work longer hours.

Bringing me back in would not make things better in any way, but I almost feel bad for them having a large building that sits empty so much.

Clbull , (edited )

Oh it’s been very damaging and a major reason for high staff turnover. Since COVID I have worked in transactional finance roles where the staff turnover rate has been has high as 95% - meaning that for every 20 hires, only one would stay with the company beyond twelve months.

A trend I noticed is that companies which refuse to embrace remote working will greatly struggle to hire staff.

It’s more baffling how a lot of companies respond to these issues not by raising wages to market levels or improving working conditions/workloads, but by buying the team pizzas every month or two, pushing tighter RTO mandates and adding lengthier notice periods into new contracts.

COVID-19 had one saving grace and that was proving that many roles could be performed remotely. The pandemic has made remote working an expectation of today’s workforce that corporations have either embraced or fought long and hard to reverse. It’s the companies that embrace remote work which are going to thrive.

Who knows, that may be a good thing in the long run. We don’t need ludicrously expensive luxury office space, which my city is full of. But you know what my city desperately needs? Homes. Bristol has the second-highest property prices in all of the UK behind London. Our rents are quickly approaching London levels because all the Londoners are fleeing the capital to clog up our housing market.

GBU_28 ,

Longer notice periods? Nah dog. 2 weeks if I like my team, and there’s a potential reference out of the job, otherwise cya

frankhorrigan ,

I can’t even imagine accepting an employment offer that requires a notice period; it’d be a pretty good indicator that the employer’s attrition rates are high.

Pantoffel ,

In Germany 3 months are standard, from both sides. It is a good thing, because they cannot just put you on the street by tomorrow, but have to pay for another three months. This goes vice versa. Is that any different in the states?

the_sisko ,

Can’t speak for the whole country but my employment is at-will, meaning it can be terminated by either side at any moment with no notice.

It is considered polite and relatively standard to give two weeks’ notice prior to leaving your job, but there’s no requirement in any of the jobs I’ve had.

Of course, employers don’t have that same “polite standard” of two weeks, it’s not unheard of for people to be fired on the spot. Though it’s definitely unusual. For broader layoffs, it’s pretty common to get several weeks of notice and pay.

Strawberry ,

In the united states, it is customary for a leaving employee to give 2 weeks notice, but a firing employer does not usually give any notice at all. They do just put you out on the street tomorrow.

altima_neo ,
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

Also the 2 week notice is not actually required. It’s just “best practice”.

aesthelete ,

That varies depending upon state law. California has the warn act which gives you some rights if you’re let go as part of a large wave of layoffs.

frankhorrigan ,

I’m in Canada, and typically an employee will give two weeks as a minimum, more in some circumstances. Employer’s requirements vary by province, and may require notice or severance pay.

aesthelete ,

California has the warn act which is supposed to mandate an employer to either provide notice or give 90 days compensation. It’s not always followed and not always applicable, but it’s similar to what you’re talking about.

In our case it’s slightly better for the employee though, because nobody can force you to continue working here. It’s customary to give two weeks though, and that’s generally followed so that you can use previous employers as a reference.

Jayb151 ,

I work for an Irish company and I believe 2 months is the norm. That said, I’m in the US and don’t have to follow those rules.

Valmond ,

Maybe it’s not only the WFH that matters but hideous enough managers enforcing not liked non productive rules that plays part in big turnover too…

CoderKat ,

Yeah, I think those go hand in hand. The kind of leadership that would push RTO is the kind that frequently would also do other bad things (or let their managers).

drewofdoom ,

Then there’s my employer, who is giving us WFH for the foreseeable future. They might even sell our office building and move our datacenter.

We do a monthly small-team in person, and the occasional all-staff in-person, but otherwise it’s just “come in if you want, or don’t, lol.” Like, I technically have a desk. It’s just got a couple monitors on it collecting dust, though. I’m only really ever there (aside from the infrequent in-persons) when my rabbit has to go to the vet, which is closer to the office.

We actually showed more productivity after moving to WFH, so they said ‘let’s just keep it.’ So my only restriction is living in the state, since it’s a publically-funded org.

xtremeownage ,

My company is the same way.

They realize many of us will leave, and they would lose a ton of money trying to replace us.

Kecessa , (edited )

14% increase in productivity in my department yet they won’t get rid of our office, just in case…

My boss seems to start to understand that if they ask me to RTO then I’m gone because I don’t live anywhere close to where I did when they hired me.

hrimfaxi_work ,
@hrimfaxi_work@midwest.social avatar

No picture of the rabbit, though? ☹️

partial_accumen ,

Right? They didn’t pay the rabbit tax.

drewofdoom ,

Shit, sorry, missed this earlier! This is one of them.

corsicanguppy ,

only restriction is living in the state, since it’s a publically-funded org

The job I fled to as soon as the fuckwits at the old place revealed they’re too dumb to manage remote people whose butts they can’t count visually each day (and that’s not a creepy fixation) is publicly funded.

Soon as COVID hit, they went from ‘Office Space’ to ‘gtfo without paperwork to come onsite’. And they stayed that way. WFO-first is now in the union contract. They sold the desks and ditched the lease. 100% WFH except 2 hotel spots and one rotating freight-receiver post. A Sears kiosk has a bigger footprint.

It used to be “stay in this region,” but that’s changed: new hires coming online are from across the country. No barrier as long as it’s still within fed borders.

I need to move out East so I can take a ferry to France or cross the land border to Denmark; but also for the crazy cheap housing and beautiful scenery.

Anyway, public funding doesn’t preclude a Detroit mansion.

EssentialCoffee ,

Public funding can definitely come with strings though and location can be one of the strings.

Also, the more locations you have folks, the more you have to deal with taxes in other states. They might just not have the funding to do that additional work.

drewofdoom ,

Except I work for a state’s community college system. Working for a state org, they want you to pay taxes in that state.

FWIW, they let me work from Georgia for the first year and change during the pandemic.

HR_Pufnstuf ,

The next battle: 4 day work week or Work from home. Your choice.

You wait, they’ll try that shit.

NotAnonymousAtAll ,

Both, both is good.

Gawanoh ,

It would actually be very nice. After a short while people would start to ask for both because the infrastructure is in place for that. At some point they need to give in and we win.

Kecessa ,

My choice is “Same work, same wage.”

youtu.be/DwbzxemJZIc

SnowBunting ,

I’m hoping to see 3 day work weeks. Work 24 hrs a week.

some_guy OP ,

Keen insight.

Sackbut ,

Say you prefer the 4 day week and then don’t go in.

TitanLaGrange ,

I’d be ok with that. From home I’m probably only actually working 3.5 out of 5 days anyway, and I think it would be good to get companies comfortable with 4 day workweeks.

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