A European here. Aside from going in the right direction, I have a question: Don’t the rich already pay most of their earnings as taxes? So the problem is not that they are not getting taxed, but rather that they avoid paying them through loopholes? Or is that a billionaire problem?
Yeah. The problem is that the richest people have many loopholes to avoid paying taxes. Getting a minimal salary and then just taking loans against their assets is one of them.
And to add to it. If you were making 10 million dollar and someone approached and said that they could make it so that you keep 1 million in taxes if you pay them 100 thousand you would most likely be one of the ones doing it.
If you make enough money you can afford hiring people to find new ways to keep your expenses down. Tax is an expense as any other to many rich people.
“After all, you made your fortune without getting any help so why should your earnings go to p1eople who use the system”
What do you propose the government should limit/stop spending on to reach over 0.5% of the real yearly earnings of Gates, Musk, Bezos, the Waltons and all their billionaire friends?
(Note that I’m not even asking about if the actual real yearly earnings of millionaires.)
What I know or don’t know is irrelevant . You came with unsubstantiated claims and I asked you to own up to your claims.
So let’s try it once more: what exactly do you suggest the government stop spending money on each year to reach savings equivalent of 0.5% of the real yearly earnings of Gates, Musk, Bezos, Waltons and their friends?
If you want to change this person’s mind, perhaps you would have better luck providing actual evidence or examples of government waste, rather than insulting them.
While true …. We have different income tax brackets where those with a higher income pay a higher percentage, for federal tax. However Massachusetts had a flat tax rate on income: we all pay the same percentage. Now that state tax will be more progressive, at least to the extent that rich people have “income”
Thanks for your answer to my question! Simple and to the point, without getting into politics, like a few others have. I had a more general knowledge from a few years ago, so a specific for this case helped.
Again, thank you and the others who took their time to answer me.
Part of it is loopholes, but an equally big part is that we tax the way the rich earn their money differently. Most working- and middle-class earners make their money from a wage or salary, which is taxed as income. However, the rich make almost all of their money through dividends on stocks, low- or no-interest loans backed by assets, and selling stocks through the market or companies (that they have a seat on the board) doing stock buybacks. All of the income made from the above are taxed differently as “capital gains tax,” which is usually taxed at a much lower rate than income.
Thanks for your answer to my question! More specific answers like this one really help reinforce what the other told me. I also appreciate you not going into politics, like a few others have.
Capital gains tax isn’t ‘much’ lower, it’s like 5% lower, depending on the bracket.
Loans make it possible to avoid taxes–temporarily. You eventually have to pay off the loan, at which point you’ll pay taxes. Of course, if you’re making more from your investments than you’re paying in interest (and with plenty of collateral, you can get lower-interest loans), it makes sense to just pay the interest and never the principal of the loan. Of course, if loan interest rates shoot up (which they now have), this can suddenly stop working.
And right now, there is a loophole related to carrying loans–but it requires you to die. When you die, your heir is allowed to sell assets to pay off your loans without paying capital gains tax (or not as much? I don’t quite remember).
Even ignoring every singly loophole, we tax the ways the rich collect and store their wealth at a much lower percent than actual income. Meaning even if the rich didn’t dodge taxes, they end up paying much less % wise.
Adding in loopholes they pay nothing or next to nothing.
Don’t let anyone tell you high income earners don’t pay tax. I’m a CPA (tax) and most of my individual clients are high and ultra high net worth.
One of my biggest clients is a group of four hedge fund managers in NYC for example. They earned about $50 million each in the last few years. Idk what their net worths are but I’d imagine it’s at least a few hundred million each. They pay at least 37% federal, plus investment income tax (Obamacare), plus 10% to the state of NY plus NYC. It’s a lot and winds up being over $25 million a year. I don’t shed any tears for them because they are left with $25 million to play with (each, per year), which they should be able to scrape by on.
You can certainly argue it should be higher or lower or whatever but there’s this idea out there that wealthy people don’t pay tax and it’s just absurd. Also frankly it makes my job harder because people think I’m a magic anti tax wizard that just makes it go away, I’m just sitting here like you made a fuckton of money and owe a fuckton of tax, what’s the question? ¯*(ツ)*/¯
Do you ever get a sense of whether your clients ‘get’ just how disproportionate there income is compared to the median?
According to this $50 million puts them comfortably in top 1%, receiving median annual US income in just under two hours (if my math is good: (40*52)*(46,001/50000000) = 1.91?).
Yeah it’s really hard to see that in the context of kids literally starving.
Regarding your question, it’s a mix. I would say many if not most understand they are extremely successful and fortunate. The variance is how out of touch they are. Some are incredibly generous, while others are grumpy or miserable. Some actually want higher taxes, some are Scrooge types.
I once had an UHNW individual who consistently donated so much to charity that he exceeded deduction limits. I had to research ways to optimize his giving, which was refreshing.
Then there was a trust fund beneficiary worth at least $100 million, a really nice guy who lived modestly, bought the whole office lunch and dressed casually. Very down to earth. We were in the process of setting up a charity trust for him before I left that firm.
Other end of the spectrum, I had a paranoid and unstable client who repeatedly pushed us to do unethical and illegal things, making everyone uncomfortable. We fired him even though he was a ~100k/yr client for us. Easy decision.
Thanks for the answer to my question! I did not really look into this for a few years. And those that I did were when I really got into US politics. Thankfully I did 180 on that, but my knowledge from that time is untrustworthy to say the least.
Your answer really clarified and added a lot rather than repeating what others said, along with it being from a professional, which is well appreciated. So again, thank you and the others for taking the time to answer my question.
The issue is more likely that taxes aren’t being used in ways that benefit the public, like they are in other countries. But also many Americans don’t want that because grrr filthy socialism
the Record requested access to the probable cause affidavit — the document that would outline why the judge saw reason to authorize the raid — from the Marion County District Court. But the court's written response [...] indicates that document may not exist. "This Court is unable to respond to this request as there is not a probable cause affidavit filed," judge Viar wrote in response to the newsroom's request.
Yeah, update on this: the court has "found" the probable cause affidavit. The only problem is that it seems to be mostly identical to the search warrant. Instead of what a normal sworn affidavit looks like, which is a chronological summary of the facts that establish probable cause.
His lead over Republican presidential rivals has widened since the New York charges were filed in April, according to Reuters/Ipsos polling. But in a July Reuters/Ipsos poll, 37% of independents said the criminal cases made them less likely to vote for him, compared to 8% who said they were more likely to do so
How can someone see Trump been charged again and again, as something that makes him more compelling to vote for. I know the Republicans have put their egg in that basket(case), but as an independent, seeing all those charges, and think “Well, that works for me!” I don’t get it…
In the Foundation novel, Hari Seldon described the Empire as a dead tree branch has all the appearance of strength until the storm blast breaks it into two.
I’ve been pretty much shocked by a lot of the things that have happened in the last decade or so … kind of like “nobody would ever ever have predicted that, before ….”
If you look at our history, there has always been a sort of club where those involved in wrongdoing end up being shielded from real accountability. There are no other examples of a president being criminally prosecuted for anything.
People say that is because the founders never imagined that a criminal would be elected president, but given the lack of mention of slavery until the 13th amendment I have a feeling that’s not quite the case.
Also, it’s quite possible he’s headed for pre-trial detention, because he’s incapable of keeping his mouth shut. He keeps spouting off attacking the judge and witnesses, and can’t help but release privileged evidence to social media. If so, it’d be all but impossible for him to run a campaign.
I suppose the fear is we will get a jury, in Georgia, where I suppose there is a high chance to get a MAGA fanatic, and you only need one asshole to sabotage the entire trial. This is always the risk with all jury selections, and the lawyers are very aware of this when they do voir dire
I think this one has the potential to stick. Not just because it’s a state charge that can be easily pardoned. But I think it tells a story that even Conservatives in the South can relate to: a bunch of elites from the North storming in and acting like they’re the ones in charge.
I put conviction for some felony at 99% going to real prison at 1%. There are so much that can go into this. Years of appeals, pardons, arguments for house arrest, etc.
The most deliscious thing (and worrying if I’m being honest) about all of this is that his biggest cheerleader, Magic The Gathering Majorie, is a representative of Georgia. Either this all happens under her watch and she’s powerless to “take the heat off a guy” or she will pull every favor she can in her own state to reduce anything she can for him.
I forsee not only there to be many hiccups, but maybe even Watergate type charges for her office for meddling with the courthouse itself to try and fuck with the system. I would like to be wrong but this is a case that brings, perhaps not the actual charge but the spirit of, treasonous behavior. Anyone willing to end the democratic way of doing things for a dictator, will absolutely come to bat if it fails to try again.
Not in a monogamous society. Rapists don’t want to get tied down to only a single child wife. Also, there’s no dowry in our society for the rapist to take the burden of raising the girl off the parents’ hands.
"The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act is a United States federal law that provides for extended criminal penalties and a civil cause of action for acts performed as part of an ongoing criminal organization. "
DeSantis said. “They are suing the state of Florida. They are going to lose that lawsuit. So what I would say is, ‘Drop the lawsuit. You have the state that even CNBC ranks as number one of all 50 states for economy.” -Looks up list of states with the highest GDP… Florida comes in forth place.
You have to make a decision. Either he’s incredibly incompetent and incapable of accurately quoting one of the most basic stats a govenor should know about their own state or he lies so much that he’s completely incapable of telling the truth, no matter how stupid the lie is.
Actually, you don’t have to decide, it can be both. Dumb and evil. Door #3
Is that because Florida has no state income tax? Hmmm, I wonder how they’re able to run their state budget? Hmmm, do you think it has anything to do with what goes on there in central Florida? Nah, I’m sure they’re just doing a bang up job of running the place.
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