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FlyingSquid , (edited ) in US Supreme Court rules Trump has immunity for official, not private acts
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I posted this in another thread.

I am really confused about this ruling.

“But under our system of separated powers, the President may not be prosecuted for exercising his core constitutional powers, and he is entitled to at least presumptive immunity from prosecution for his official acts.”

He’s not being prosecuted for exercising core constitutional powers or official acts. He’s being prosecuted for election fraud, inciting an insurrectionist mob and mishandling classified documents. None of those are core constitutional powers and they clearly can’t be official acts.

Edit: I just love this part-

Without immunity, Trump’s lawyer said, sitting presidents would face “blackmail and extortion” by political rivals due to the threat of future prosecution.

Trump just faces blackmail and extortion from his political allies. Like Vladimir Putin.

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

They sent it back down to the lower courts because they need to determine if he was acting officially. If he was acting outside of an official constitutional capacity he is criminally responsible. If he was doing his official duties with in the constitution he’s alright.

It’ll probably end up with him hit with some charges and avoiding others.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Why does this need to be determined? He wasn’t. He just wasn’t. Nothing he is being charged with is constitutional, which is the point.

catloaf ,

In your opinion. It needs to be determined by a court.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

It already was determined by a court. Now they’re sending it back to that court to re-determine it.

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

That’s just due process of law. The lower court can’t just wax seal issues of constitutionality with out looking at them. Doing so would be a fantastic grounds for appeal.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

They already looked at them before he appealed to SCOTUS. And SCOTUS didn’t rule that they were wrong as far as I can tell.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Devil’s Advocate: It’s been needing to be determined since fucking Nixon left office, and our entire government has been waffling about it for 70 years, because it’s a question they don’t actually want answered. It’s only convenient to them now as a reason to give Trump a legal time-out so he can make it to the election without more indictments.

The District Court in question has already defined official versus unofficial acts, which is part of why the SC released this so late on fucking purpose. Because even though the DC is ready to go with their findings, they’ll have to wait until October to kick it back up the chain to the Supreme Court when Trump inevitably appeals.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

It won’t be answered if Trump gets in. I guess that’s the hope.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

That’s the . I think it goes a little farther than “hope” with these guys. They think they can manifest reality.

We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do’.

-Karl Rove

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

They see 1984 as a manual without recognizing the warnings in Animal Farm.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

In some ways, you can almost see why trying to “erase” bad ideas is intoxicating, since humans seem endlessly drawn to them.

It’s like in tech circles, the joke goes that some Sci-Fi writer creates a horrible invention and includes a warning “DO NOT BUILD THE TORMENT NEXUS” and that warning, repeatedly, goes ignored. People are like “but we could make good profit from the Torment Nexus!”

AI is a good example. “If we don’t make the terrible AI, someone else will, so we have to make the Torment Nexus, errr, I mean AI.”

But trying to stop all these bad ideas is just Fahrenheit 451 with extra steps.

prole ,

AI is a good example. “If we don’t make the terrible AI, someone else will, so we have to make the Torment Nexus, errr, I mean AI.”

That mode of thought is a byproduct of capitalism.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I think the Soviets and the space race with the USA would prove that the “We have to build it faster, first!” isn’t just a capitalist thing.

Capitalism incentivizes it, absolutely. To be clear, I’m not making some “it’s human nature” argument, culture plays a huge role. Capitalist culture influences it greatly, but I think humans “racing” to achieve something before another does is outside the scope of just capitalism.

pdxfed ,

They don’t mind being the pigs, their only driver is to jot be the other animals who suffered with someone else in power.

dhork ,

Some of the evidence that Jack Smith has put together involve some form of Trump’s official capacity. for instance, the Times notes that one of the points of the prosecution was that Trump tried to get Jeffrey Clark installed as acting AG in the days before Jan 6, presumably because he would go along with the coup. One of the findings of the Court is that appointments like that are within the President’s direct duties, and can’t be used as evidence against him, even if it can be proven that the appointment was made to directly piss on the Constitution Trump swore to protect.

The Times also notes that Trump’s pressure campaign on Pence is similarly protected now.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The Times also notes that Trump’s pressure campaign on Pence is similarly protected now.

How can that be constitutional?

dhork ,

Because presiding over the counting of the votes is one of the very few duties the Constitution allocates to the VP, so is covered under this new doctrine. He has the absolute right to conduct that how he sees fit, without regard to whether he is upholding his oath to the Constitution or not, and any conversations he had with the President are part of that duty, and similarly protected. If it turns out he is not upholding that oath, the only remedy is impeachment. (And finding 67 Senators to agree to convict.)

Absolute power, just as the Founders intended.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Which, I guess, includes blackmailing the VP if necessary. To protect the president from blackmail.

Fades ,

because they need to determine if he was acting officially.

this was already ruled on, reelection campaign is NOT an official capacity thing PERIOD. This move is nothing but another delay to ensure this shit falls on a date post-election

EmptySlime ,

Delaying until after the election was the main point yeah. He did get a couple other goodies from it though to my understanding. Presumption of immunity and not being able to admit testimony or communications of the president and his staff being the big ones from what I’m reading.

But absolutely Remand is the big prize for Trump here. Having the case remanded back to the lower courts all but guarantees that it won’t be concluded before the election. Hopefully it doesn’t entirely gut the other prosecutions as well but I don’t have a lot of faith that it isn’t going to basically kill the other cases.

agamemnonymous ,
@agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works avatar

As for a President’s unofficial acts, there is no immunity. Although Presidential immunity is required for official actions to ensure that the President’s decisionmaking is not distorted by the threat of future litigation stemming from those actions, that concern does not support immunity for unofficial conduct. Clinton, 520 U. S., at 694, and n. 19. The separation of powers does not bar a prosecution predicated on the President’s unofficial acts.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Right, and why do the questions “can a president officially commit election fraud” and “can a president officially incite a violent mob” and “can a president officially mishandle classified documents?” need to be determined? The answers have already been determined. They are all no.

Zaktor ,

Constitutionally defined roles have absolute immunity (e.g., pardons). Other “official acts” are presumed to have immunity, but what acts are official is not well defined and as written can be very expansive. Since the Court gets to decide each one on a case by case basis, it will presumably apply more expansively to fascist allies and more narrowly to opponents. All Trump needs to do is present a flimsy excuse for how he was “protecting the election” or “making a political speech as president”. The liberal judges are correctly ringing alarm bells. “Official acts” isn’t a guardrail.

Track_Shovel , in Conspiracy Theorists Think Biden Was Hit With Directed-Energy Weapons During Debate

https://slrpnk.net/pictrs/image/18b1265e-d7a4-4e2a-9ce0-0e9d49e1fd97.jpeg

Not that I wanted the debate to go the way it did

remotelove , in A teen tech whiz nicknamed 'God's influencer' will become the first millennial saint

I was teaching people how to download porn years before that kid showed up. That should have made me at least a cardinal or something and I ain’t even catholic.

Chozo , in Two missing Georgia firefighters are found dead in a car in Tennessee

Kuhbander’s mom, Jane, posted on social media days after her son was last seen. She claimed that Kuhbander was ‘coerced’ by Anderson and that she was a danger to herself. She also claimed that Kuhbander did not go with her willingly.

Family had said the two were romantically involved but had broken up before they went missing.

For as few details as this article has, they certainly do let you paint a pretty disturbing picture of what happened.

Ltcpanic , in 16-year-old Quincy Wilson now the youngest-ever male US track Olympian

Boy, oh boy. Wow

TheDeepState , in New York City promised to build a shelter for trans people. Activists are demanding it follow through

deleted_by_moderator

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  • remotelove , in Conspiracy Theorists Think Biden Was Hit With Directed-Energy Weapons During Debate

    I don’t buy it in this particular case, but “directed energy” can do some funky things: youtu.be/J-SH18dtBlY?si=40dOJbu4O9ZWWCsZ

    (No, it’s not a conspiracy theory video or any of that crap. Benn Jordan is a musician that likes all kinds of funky sound things.)

    ToucheGoodSir , in Sudan: paramilitaries loot the village of Jebal Moya | Africanews

    Sounds like some peace keepers need to come in and get these looters in order. I doubt they’re going to be as economically productive as the people whose stuff they stole and drove away.

    dhhyfddehhfyy4673 , in GameStop investor retracts suit accusing Roaring Kitty of pump-and-dump scheme

    Pretty sure the term savvy investor doesn't apply to dipshits who baghold meme stocks lol

    HerrBeter ,

    The price is wrong

    Zachariah , in 'The way our districts are drawn is BS:' Ohio redistricting effort moves toward fall ballot
    @Zachariah@lemmy.world avatar

    proportional representation solves a lot of problems with these districts

    catloaf , in Hunter Biden sues Fox News over miniseries, claiming the outlet "distorts the truth"

    They’ve been doing it since their inception. That’s the whole point of their existence. Nobody has stopped them yet, why should it be any different now?

    randompasta ,

    Suing Fox worked well for Dominion Voting.

    clay_pidgin ,

    I mean, they won the case, but FOX got to lie about them for years and their viewers don’t care about the loss in court.

    mercano ,
    @mercano@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, but the shareholders care, or at least they should.

    catloaf ,

    And they continue to lie about everything except that one thing.

    stoly ,

    That’s true but notice that they reined in their anchors after Dominion. Many topics were no longer allowed because they don’t want to lose money.

    TachyonTele ,

    Is that the case that got Tucker Carlson kicked into his van by the river?

    Ghostalmedia ,
    @Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

    If Fox had a time machine, I bet money they wouldn’t do the Dominion thing again. They lost over 1/5th of their cash on hand when that whole thing was settled.

    Hunter Biden will be different though. That’s not as clear cut as the Dominion case, and Biden isn’t going to be able to say that he lost billions in sales because of their bullshit. They will have made more money off Hunter Biden than they spent - if they have to pay him out.

    Late2TheParty , in Two missing Georgia firefighters are found dead in a car in Tennessee
    @Late2TheParty@lemmy.world avatar

    Huh. Not how I thought that article would go.

    rhythmisaprancer ,
    @rhythmisaprancer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

    Ya. It's a pretty preliminary article, hard to say much about it.

    JSocial , in Effort to withhold Mexico funding over water crisis passes second congressional hurdle

    Do Nestle next.

    gedaliyah , in Florida prosecutors knew Epstein raped teenage girls 2 years before cutting deal, transcript shows
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    Honestly I thought this was already pretty well known

    catloaf , in Lawsuit accuses Iran, Syria and North Korea of providing support for Hamas' Oct. 7 attack on Israel

    filed in federal court in New York

    Pretty sure you can’t sue other countries like that.

    fukhueson OP ,

    FTA:

    Under U.S. law, foreign governments can be held liable, in some circumstances, for deaths or injuries caused by acts of terrorism or by providing material support or resources for them.

    The 1976 statute cited in the lawsuit, the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, is a frequent tool for American plaintiffs seeking to hold foreign governments accountable. In one example, a federal judge in Washington ordered North Korea in 2018 to pay $500 million in a wrongful death suit filed by the parents of Otto Warmbier, an American college student who died shortly after being released from that country.

    People held as prisoners by Iran in the past have successfully sued Iran in U.S. federal court, seeking money earlier frozen by the U.S.

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