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moitoi ,

I’m waiting for the bad faith at the keynote. It will be funny.

SternburgExport ,

Yeah if the cable ist USB-C to lightning.

7heo , (edited )

expired

SternburgExport ,

Apple would rather take a fine than complying tho.

Flumsy ,

Even if that fine is 10% of their yearly revenue? I doubt it…

SternburgExport ,

Depends. But they’ve done it before.

ciko22i3 ,
@ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz avatar

I’m out of the loop. What did they do now?

weeeeum ,

Apple could potentially force users to use a proprietary apple USB c charger instead of any random one. This can be done via a lockout chip inside of the cable itself that only apple produces and is already done on apples lightning cable (super cheap sketchy cables may not charge or have features missing).

Additionally the USB c port on iPhones will only run on USB 2.0 speeds, a standard from the year 2000 (yes, 23 years ago).

ciko22i3 ,
@ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz avatar

Universal* Serial Bus

riodoro1 ,

What if i told you Im pretty sure most of your usb devices run on those “23 year old” speeds?

player2 , (edited )

deleted_by_author

    •
    jasondj ,

    I kind of suspect that people who transfer their photos and music and whatnot over, manually, are very much in the minority compared to people who stream and use a cloud hosted photo app. And I’d suspect that a good handful of those that care enough to backup their files locally probably has OwnCloud or something similar running.

    That said, such a shitty move. I can’t imagine it would be that much more bothersome to support high speeds, on a modern device. It is more than likely an ulterior motive to get those people to assimilate or leave, and then phase out the plug entirely, a move that will be mocked by every major Android manufacturer only to have it on all their flagship models a year or two later.

    GeneralVincent ,

    Sure, I expect it if I buy a cheap USB device. But if I’m paying hundreds of dollars for the device that I use daily? Having even slightly more modern speeds is a requirement for me

    HiddenLayer5 ,

    Most of my USB devices isn’t a $1000+ brand new handheld computer though.

    FiskFisk33 ,

    not the storage ones…

    executivechimp ,
    @executivechimp@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    You’d be wrong

    littlecolt , (edited )

    USB 3.0 and 3.1 are jank and produce RFI, so using 2.0 is an excellent idea. USB 3.1 could cause interference with Bluetooth.

    Edit: I literally work with this stuff for a living, but downvote me… It’s fine.

    player2 , (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    littlecolt ,

    Bluetooth is 2.4 GHz.

    GeneralVincent ,

    Thanks for providing the first somewhat reasonable argument that Apple could make in support of that design choice, other than cost cutting. What about USB 3.2 and 4? Also does USB 2 not produce any rfi?

    I looked into it further, and couldn’t get much info. It seems the USB organization is one of the main places for information on this potential issue, and their conclusion is;

    “Improving the shielding on the USB 3.0 receptacle connector can help reduce the amount of noise radiated due to USB 3.0 signaling. In addition, shielding of the USB 3.0 peripheral device plays an important role in reducing the amount of noise radiated in the 2.4–2.5 GHz range. This is particularly critical for peripheral devices that are placed close to the PC platform, such as a flash drive. Placement of the wireless antenna should also be carefully considered on a platform and be located as far away as possible from a USB 3.0 connector and/or device.”

    Which makes sense to me. And Apple, the most profitable tech company in the world, seems to be best equipped to figure out how to shield their devices components to minimize or eliminate that issue.

    dyerat ,

    Every other manufacturer has found a way to make it work

    whofearsthenight ,

    I don’t expect them to do that, much too easy to get slapped down on by the EU. I do expect that non-Apple/MFI chargers are USB 2.0, and I do expect are limited to slow charging and might come with a nasty-gram in the OS when using one. I lean against the nasty-gram as you can use some shit-ass lightning cables and iOS doesn’t generally care, but the other two I would say are near certain. What will be real fucky is if they don’t have a faster data transfer speed at all.

    Squirrel ,
    @Squirrel@thelemmy.club avatar

    Wow, what shitheads.

    Black616Angel ,

    Apple will have a USB-C connector (capable of fast charging tech), but will only support slow 5V charging (for most non-apple chargers?)…

    Shayeta ,

    Honestly, I find this preferable. I only charge at night and a battery that charges slowly lasts longer.

    LufyCZ ,

    It’s not preferable at all.

    They’re purposefully crippling a $1000+ product.

    You’re free to buy a slow charger for $8 on Amazon, there’s tons of solutions for that.

    There’s no solution for garbage hardware

    Solaris1789 ,
    @Solaris1789@jlai.lu avatar

    Though i guess you should be used to that already if you buy apple shit

    ciko22i3 ,
    @ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz avatar

    my samsung galaxy s10 had an option to turn off fast charging in settings (for wireless too)

    slevinkelevra ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    KingJalopy ,

    My pixel does this

    pufferfischerpulver ,

    Yeah, or just a slow charger next to bed? Who doesn’t have a charter next to bed? Especially a slow one costs nothing.

    Definitely wouldn’t want to give up PD speeds to top up during the day. Well, I would give them up if I didn’t have to top up during the day.

    TWeaK ,

    I really wish we had the capability to stop charging early. I’d love to leave my phone plugged in for crazy long periods, but only keep the battery at like 70%. This way it wouldn’t degrade performance from the batteries being left at full charge.

    Toast ,

    Are you sure you don’t already have something like this? My android is a couple years old, but has always let me charge to only 85%

    TWeaK ,

    It’s not a feature commonly found in AOSP ROMs, in my experience.

    Toast ,

    That’s unfortunate, I guess. I mean, even though I do have my phone set to only charge up to 85%, I don’t really know if this is battery protective or not.

    Is it?

    I just enabled the option because the description of the feature claimed it to be. I haven’t researched this at all

    TWeaK ,

    Yes it should be, somewhat anyway. Primarily batteries wear out through use, both charging and discharging - if your phone is plugged in but not charging, then your phone is running off mains and the battery isn’t being used. However, batteries also wear out over time, albeit much more slowly. Manufacturer’s typically recommend keeping batteries in long term storage at around 70% to minimise this effect. If you’re always plugged into mains at 100% charge, then you’re not following this storage recommendation. Leaving it at 100% won’t kill the battery, but its capacity will go down quicker than if left at a lower charge.

    happyhippo ,

    Most of Apple users I’ve met master the art of turning Apple’s crap decisions into features and advantages over the competition.

    I lost all faith in those folks being reasonable.

    Shayeta ,

    Wait, you can set phones to charge slowly?

    Gladaed ,

    You can even set the cable!

    hackitfast ,
    @hackitfast@lemmy.world avatar

    If you find that preferable, you’d love the Pixel then. You can turn it on and off as you please.

    screenrant.com/use-adaptive-charging-pixel-7-how/

    Also if you’re using an official Apple USB-C charging cable on an iPhone, you can expect that it will charge at full speed (overnight or not).

    And if you’re at a friend’s house and they have any other Android phone on Earth, the fast charging cable that they use to resuscitate their own Android phone from 10% to 50% in 15 mins and will take your (much more pricey) iPhone 50 minutes.

    And the overpriced iPhone cable that charges those iPhones fast, will charge any Android phone fast.

    At the minimum, you should understand that you’re the one getting the shit end of the stick. Don’t explain how it’s so convenient for you to get the shit end of the stick, that’s what let’s manufacturers keep getting away with this anti-consumer bullshit.

    JaN0h4ck ,

    is this confirmed or just a rumor? can’t find any sources atm

    Black616Angel ,

    Nope, me neither.

    PM_ME_FEET_PICS ,

    It’s false information. It will support fast charging but have slow data transfer.

    flashgnash ,

    Who uses a cable for data transfer anymore anyway though

    currycourier ,

    I mean whether or not many people use it it’s still shitty

    black0ut ,
    @black0ut@pawb.social avatar

    It’s faster than network data transfer. I don’t know exactly how fast can WiFi go, but most if the time it can’t even exceed 1Gbps. However, USB-C 4 V2 can reach 80 Gbps, and isn’t all that affected by electromagnetic interference.

    For transfering a few photos, you won’t notice a difference. But if you need to back up a 256 GB phone, the difference in speed is actually big.

    flashgnash ,

    I guess so, I don’t see much reason why I’d need to back up my whole phone in this day and age though, photos documents and notes are all backed up through syncthing/Google photos and that runs in the background constantly so not like I’m waiting

    Contacts, installed apps and I believe some settings are backed up to my Google account and will follow me without even thinking about it

    I guess game save data but personally I don’t play games on my phone anymore anyway so that’s not a big deal for me

    Could quite happily wipe my phone tomorrow and be back up and running with all my data within 30 mins max and have never needed to plug it in

    black0ut ,
    @black0ut@pawb.social avatar

    Most people do what you say, but there are places where you don’t have a stable internet connection, or people who like to keep their storage offline.

    I don’t mean to say that there are no alternatives to a fast cable, or that most people should use it. But it’s a feature that comes with the cable, and there shouldn’t be someone trying to cap it just for profit.

    The controllers for the communication protocol probably cost something like 8 cents, Apple shouldn’t screw their customers over that little cost. Even with a feature most people won’t use, because it’s nice knowing that you have the possibility to use it if you need to.

    flashgnash ,

    Oh yeah I’m not trying to argue they are justified in doing this in the slightest don’t get me wrong apple sucks for decisions like this

    moitoi ,

    This is wrong. The iPhone must comply with Power Delivery at 100W and must use USB-C. It’s the EU reglementation. Now,the trick can be they don’t follow this outside the EU.

    Spudwart ,

    Step 1: Deliberately throttle USB C on non-pro models to convince users USB C is bad. Step 2: Release the iPhone 15. Step 3: iPhone 15 Sales plummet because of poor reviews. Step 3: iPhone 15 Sales plummet because of poor reviews.

    ciko22i3 ,
    @ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Step 4: Increase the price because die-hard fans will still buy it

    Step 5: profit

    01189998819991197253 ,
    @01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

    Oh, cool. It’s LG all over again.

    TheMusicalFruit ,

    How many of you dweebs complaining about Apple “constantly changing connectors” and “making you buy proprietary cables” with every new phone realize that they’ve been using the same connector for over a DECADE now? I’m all for reducing e-waste, but come on. If you don’t like their stuff, don’t buy it.

    FuntyMcCraiger ,

    I bought a Samsung. Then I bought a one plus. Then I bought a pixel.

    Imagine if I had to throw out my charging cables every time I changed brands. Imagine if everyone acted like Apple. It would be incredibly degenerate.

    Also, everyone brings up micro USB, but those cables still find a ton of use in my home for all the different other devices that use it. I’m not gonna find an Xbox controller that uses lightning cables for example.

    TheMusicalFruit ,

    My argument stands. The companies that don’t conform lose market share, because you don’t buy their products requiring proprietary accessories. Your example list of products exclude an iPhone, so they lost your business. The argument I’m hearing is that you feel the government should force a company to make their product nicer to transition to, or use. That is in the best interest of a company, however Apple has chosen a different path. It’s your job to let them fail or support their choices by giving them money. There are many people that use the Apple ecosystem and don’t really care what connector type is being used.

    Severed_Fate ,

    Exactly. It’s selling that means it works. If you don’t like a brand don’t give them your money. It’s so weird seeing people complain aboout all these huge corporations and capitalism, then buying their products irrespective of whatever business model they opt.

    hydroel ,

    It’s a bit of a different situation with iPhones, where so many people will buy an iPhone just because. It might be that they’re used to iOS, or that they have several other devices in Apple’s ecosystem, it doesn’t change anything: many just don’t question it, they just buy an iPhone.

    Did removing the jack from the iPhone make people switch to another brand? Far from it: it gave the Bluetooth audio devices market a boom it would never have had otherwise, despite all the drawbacks of the Bluetooth connection (battery life, shorter lifespan, easier to lose. higher price point, lower quality, higher latency…) And other brands quickly understood, and followed to get their share.

    FuntyMcCraiger ,

    Every single cable you buy for Apple products is different. Not different from each other, but different from the rest of the smart phone industry. Does it need to be? No. Is it to anyone’s benefit? Just Apple’s. Is it to anyone’s detriment? To the users and the environment.

    porkchop ,

    “Imagine if everyone acted like Apple” uh. They did until usb c came out.

    morhp ,

    Before USB C, the standard was pretty much Micro USB and before that Mini USB. Only before that, you see tons of weird proprietary connectors.

    LastYearsPumpkin ,

    This is untrue.

    20 years ago, most companies had proprietary connectors, because there was no standard. Then, slowly, they all shifted to USB Micro-B, which was acceptable, but limited charge speeds.

    Once USB-C came out, it took a while for everyone to flip over. Heck, you can still find a few devices like headphones and flashlights that use USB Micro-B (or even Mini-B). But they all flipped because the demand was there and the technology standard supported what they needed.

    Apple even flipped most of its devices over. They’re just dragging their feet on the iPhone.

    HRDS_654 ,

    I love my Logitech keyboard that I bought a couple years ago, but I will always be pissed that it is micro USB and not USB C.

    Ilovethebomb ,

    The last phone I owned that had a propriety cable, apart from Apple, was a Sony-Ericsson Walkman phone. There was also the Sony Xperia phones, but they had USB as well as their proprietary connector. This was well over a decade ago.

    random8847 ,

    So are you just going to ignore micro USB?

    audiomodder ,

    The irony is that I have a bunch of lightning cables because I’ve been using an iPhone with AirPods for years. So when I finally upgrade, a bunch of my old cables will end up as e-waste.

    Knuschberkeks ,

    or you could give them to someone who still uses an iPhone with a lightning connector. You could even sell them.

    Diabolo96 , (edited )

    Shhhhh, don’t talk logic. You can only throw perfectly working stuff in the dump. Giving it ? What’s next ? Become a communist scum ? Hell, No ! Selling it ? That would make apple poor shareholders sad…

    audiomodder ,

    I could. But the irony still stands that by Apple being forced to change connectors I’m going to have to go out and buy new cables. Honestly, though, I agree with the EU, this is a change that Apple should have done sooner. They were one of the first computer companies to completely dump the old USB connector in their laptops for the space saving. I wish they would have moved to USB-C across the board at that point.

    From what I’ve heard, they were holding out to try to move from Lightning connectors to completely wireless charging with no ports.

    secret301 ,

    Well you buy apple products so you already had a bunch of e-waste

    Gilles_D ,

    Is that any different from any other company that sells electronics, except perhaps Fairphone?

    secret301 ,

    No it’s not any different.

    klisklas ,

    If you think like this you could never chance a single thing. People coming from android will be able to use the same cables, people changing vice versa will also be able to use the same cables. People can use the old cables with old phones until they brake and they will brake sooner or later.

    AI_toothbrush ,

    Apple also switched connectors. So apple is also evil and makes ewaste. Stupid arguments stab you in the foot.

    SternburgExport ,

    Hey, just like 30 pin cables.

    Resistentialism ,

    Why just waste them? If they still work, either sell them on for a few pennies or whatever their condition is, donate them to others who’d still use them or pass them out for free.Or, I know you can in the UK, not sure aboit other countries, but i imagine EU countries would have this, and Americas probably should, but just recycle them.

    nebula42 ,
    @nebula42@lemmy.world avatar

    Context?

    Baphomet_The_Blasphemer ,

    Changing their plug design with every new generation of products has created a lot of e-waste as the older plugs are no longer usable, as well as some countries have deemed this practice as a form of planned obsolescence which they have policies/laws against. So the EU basically told Apple that if their new products didn’t switch to a universal standard plug design (currently being the usb-c), then they would not be allowed to sell them in Europe. I’m guessing Apple is now trying to pass this off as their idea.

    BB69 ,

    They don’t change it every generation. Apple has been using the lightning port since 2012.

    genoxidedev1 ,
    @genoxidedev1@kbin.social avatar

    Nothing and no-one other than Apple though, so I would welcome them being forced to use a universal standard instead of that ugly-ass fucking conglomerate of multiple types of bullshit proprietary standard they keep pushing so they can get even more money.

    I'd be way happier with Apple existing if they wouldn't always push these overly obvious proprietary money grabbing bullshit.

    BB69 ,

    I mean, yeah, but there’s no need for OP to lie about Apple swapping ports every generation.

    ChrisLicht ,

    I use 10 Apple hardware devices currently, and have owned well over 100 since my first Mac 128K in 1984. I’m a sucker for Apple shit.

    I kind of have to agree with the spirit of previous poster’s point. Apple does do annoying shit with port formats.

    Between the four MacBooks in front of me, only two share the same main power format—and, of course, one of those can’t get enough juice from the other’s PSU.

    Have two different formats for my iPads, and my partner’s iPhone and mine don’t share a format. That’s not remarkable, but the timing of the various iOS port format changes was frustrating, as certain devices made the port jump at the same time that their brethren did not.

    I would finally note the rather large bouquet of different Apple wall-warts we have collected, also in two different formats, and a variety of wattages.

    Finally, a lot of Apple’s cables have tips that seem purpose-built to fall apart, meaning even more trash in landfills.

    genoxidedev1 ,
    @genoxidedev1@kbin.social avatar

    The "purpose-built to fall apart" is real, I used to have a best friend who had to get new apple headphones every 2-3 weeks because they always somehow broke.

    My apple headphone clones on the other hand lasted at best 2 years and at worst I can't say yet because this is the second pair I got from the manufacturer and they're still going strong. And I usually handle my headphones like shit, though not intentionally, of course, but the usual wear and tear.

    ChrisLicht ,

    For all of my suckerdom, the one Apple thing I don’t buy is headphones. Between the pre-sale engineered obsolescence and the post-sale engineered obsolescence (looking at you, AirPods and your declining noise-canceling levels after software “updates” as a new model is about to launch), I managed to achieve escape velocity to other headphone brands. Love the Sony WF-1000XM series for noise-canceling earbuds.

    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

    Your friend is incredible if he’s able to kill Apple’s headphones in under a month. Unironically he should apply to work for some of these companies for QA if he’s actually capable of doing that.

    whofearsthenight ,

    “I see the problem, you’re going to want to not chew on those.”

    BB69 ,

    Apple swapped MacBooks to USB C in 2015

    2018 was first USB C iPad.

    Unless your partner is using an iPhone 4s, they have a lightning port. Not sure why you’re saying they’re different.

    Again. Not every generation.

    ChrisLicht , (edited )

    “Spirit” was the operative word.

    Your data isn’t comprehensive: Intel MB Air used MagSafe until 2017, but not same MagSafe as currently offered.

    And, I meant that, among iOS devices, iPads did not switch to USB-C at same time phones did.

    From cgpt, through 2021:

    iPhone and iPad models did not make the shift to USB-C at the same time. As of my last update in September 2021, iPads started transitioning to USB-C with the iPad Pro in 2018. Other iPad models like the iPad Air followed suit, adopting USB-C in 2020.

    iPhones, on the other hand, have stuck with the proprietary Lightning connector for charging and data transfer. As of 2021, no iPhone models had transitioned to USB-C, although the topic has been a subject of speculation and rumors.

    Zagorath ,
    @Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

    Yeah it’s a really weird reputation Apple’s gotten, but it’s completely unfair. In the time I’ve been using Android smartphones they’ve switched from micro-USB to USB-C.

    Over that same time period, Apple has always used Lightning.

    Go back a bit further and Apple’s older 30-pin connector comes into play, but that’s still just 2 cables in the entire history of smartphones so far. Compare that to the proprietary cables that could often vary by model on the various devices that existed prior to Apple and Android taking over the market and it’s a pretty good situation.

    iPads have been a little worse, going from 30-pin to lightning and starting to use USB-C in 2018. But still, even that’s been very stable since then.

    There’s plenty of legitimate things to criticise Apple for. Like their opposition to the right to repair. We don’t need to be making shit up.

    FuntyMcCraiger ,

    If every cell phone brand acted like Apple we would have like thirty different proprietary chargers.

    We shouldn’t give them a pass just because they’re the only ones brazen enough to be stupid.

    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

    USB C didn’t exist when Apple made the lightning connector.

    Are they idiots, or are they innovators and the rest are just trying to catch up?

    FuntyMcCraiger ,

    Micro USB did.

    And then instead of making a connector like USB-C that everyone could use they made their own proprietary one.

    money_loo ,

    Micro usb sucked.

    It was weird how you’d go to plug it in in the darkness of night, and it wouldn’t fit, so you’d rotate it, but inexplicably it still wouldn’t fit, so you rotate it again….and now it fits?!?

    No thank you, I don’t like cables that break the fabric of space and time and betray reality itself.

    whofearsthenight ,

    Micro-usb is just about the most garbage connector in the last 30 years. I’d damn near rather Apple have actually sent me a breadboard and some leads than have that connector.

    Afiefh ,

    USB C didn’t exist, but it was being developed, and apple was on the USB-IF forum which developed it. So literally part of apple was developing USB-C while another part decided “nah, we will make our own” and of course it takes less time to make your own than to make something everyone agrees on.

    hydroel ,

    It used to be the case, just like it was for laptops until very recently.

    01189998819991197253 ,
    @01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

    Don’t forget miniB USB before the microB.

    It went: proprietary–>open standard MiniB–>open standard MicroB–>open standard C.

    On iPhone: proprietary 30pin–>proprietary Lightning

    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

    Mini USB was a dark dark time. Please don’t bring up those bad memories.

    01189998819991197253 ,
    @01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

    Hahahahahhahaha!!! I was actually thinking how bad those times were in tech hahaha

    Zagorath ,
    @Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

    I didn’t forget it, I just have never seen a phone with mini USB. I’ve still actually got some devices that use it, but never a phone.

    Not doubting that they exist, but I was very explicitly comparing my own personal experience to the Apple one.

    01189998819991197253 ,
    @01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

    That’s fair. I do know that miniB phones were few and far between, since the microB was popularized shortly after the smartphone was starting to go ubiquitous. I know about HTC phones, since those were where my experience was with early smartphones (specifically the HTC Dream and HTC Hero, which both had miniB).

    socsa ,

    It’s not an unfair reputation at all. I still have trauma from needing to buy new 24/30pin connectors every couple iPod generations. They absolutely did that shit on purpose, and lightning might have been a more moderate version of their planned obsolescence peripheral policy, but there was no fucking reason in the world for them to stick with the inferior lightning standard, other than forced fragmentation of the peripheral market. Apple knows that the number one reason people don’t even consider switching away from iPhone is because of all their lightning peripherals

    porkchop ,

    This is a weirdly untrue comment. The iPod used FireWire for a couple generations before switching to 30 pin and never changing again throughout the rest of the history of the classic iPod form factor.

    And a cable has nothing to do with why people buy or stick with an Apple or Google device. A switch to USB C would be better for everyone and Apple knows it (otherwise why switch the iPad to usb c? Why not put proprietary connectors on macs???)

    Also? If Apple switched to USB C when it was invented AFTER Lightning, you’d be complaining even harder about how Apple keeps switching their ports to get you to buy more cables. Better late than never

    MsPenguinette ,

    Also, it’s frustrating that everyone acts like lightning has no redeeming qualities. Lightning is a postless port, meaning that the failure mode is outside the device. If you accidentally trip over your cable, the cable will break but the port will be fine. That’s why your grandma can be using a 10 year old iPhone and treat it like shit

    I think a serious argument could be made that more e-waste could be made by having a device that has a higher chance of breaking.

    I’ll be happy to have a single cable for everything but that device will have a short life overall once it hits the point where the cost of any repair on the port outweighs the value of the device.

    I’ll also have a lot of lightning cables that will become obsolete but that’s how it goes. There will be a ton of old people giving a lot of retail works a lot of shit that Apple changed ports just to make money. It happened when they went from 30-pin to lightning over decade ago and will happen again

    whofearsthenight ,

    If you accidentally trip over your cable, the cable will break but the port will be fine.

    Tbh this is thing I’m not excited about the USB-C future on. On paper, I would expect that Lightning be more problematic since the springy bits are on device rather than the connector. In practice, I’ve never seen a Lightning port fail since it’s come out. Micro-USB, which is much closer to USB-C in design (obviously with improvement) for me has basically come with an expiration date. I don’t have enough USB-C stuff yet to say if that’s going to continue, but it’s a concern for sure.

    weeeeum ,

    That reputation is definitely unfair for their mobile devices but extremely fair for their laptops. 3 different magsafe connecters, switched to thunderbolt, switched to a new magsafe connector all over again, all in 10 or so years.

    Zagorath ,
    @Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

    That’s a fair point. Though I’d point out that two of the three pre-Thunderbolt (which—and I assume you know this, but I’m adding it in for the casual reader who might not know—uses the USB-C connector) Magsafe cables actually used the same connector, so you could use them interchangeably. They just improved the way the cable itself worked to come out at an angle instead of 90º. And that the new post-Thunderbolt Magsafe laptops can also be charged using the Thunderbolt/USB-C ports, so it’s only adding a new option, not replacing one.

    So it’s definitely worse than their mobile devices, but not quite as bad as it might at first seem.

    OhStopYellingAtMe ,
    @OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world avatar

    Changing their plug design with every new generation of products

    what are you talking about? They’ve used the same lightening connector for the past 10 generations.

    BobaFuttbucker ,

    They changed the connector ONE time, 11 years ago, and are being legally compelled to do so this time.

    Please call out Apple for their shitty business practices, changing the iPhone charging port is not one of them.

    socsa ,

    People in this thread are apparently too young to remember how often the original iPod connectors changed.

    sdc ,
    @sdc@infosec.pub avatar

    You keep saying this but the first two generations were FireWire only and after that the 30-pin dock connector was used until Lightning came out.

    porkchop ,

    And even then the classic iPod never used lightning, just stuck with the 30 pin

    BobaFuttbucker ,

    And the only reason FW was even used was because at the time it was the better connection method for transferring large amounts of data compared to USB.

    When USB 2 was released and common, Apple switched to 30-pin and USB2, while still allowing those with FW adapters to continue using that medium.

    You can connect a 1st gen FW-only iPod TODAY with the appropriate adapters and still sync and use it with new Macs.

    whofearsthenight ,

    Once. Firewire then 30pin

    kadu ,
    @kadu@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Rustmilian ,
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    Just stop buying iPhones, problem solved.

    umbrella ,
    @umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

    until all the others start to copycat them, as always, simply because they can get away with it

    would love to have removable batteries again

    dumbcrumb ,

    Apparently the EU passed a bill that would require companies to have batteries that could be replaced with no specialized tools and that “the process of replacement shall be able to be carried out by a layman”. With a 2027 deadline

    Gormadt ,
    @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Yes please, I hate how hard it currently is

    umbrella ,
    @umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

    I’m aware, but i’m not in the EU nor can I expect govmts around the world to legialate away evey little anti-consumer idea those people have.

    dumbcrumb ,

    Well its not likely that the big phone brands will make specific models for just the EU because of how much extra that would cost. Like whats happening now with the USB C laws.

    mind ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    mexicancartel ,

    Btw whats the matter of blue bubble? iMessage? Who tf uses imessage especially on android? Or is it just an sms app?

    mind , (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    money_loo ,

    Ironically you can use it on android using an app called…wait for it….BlueBubbles. -Source: me using it right now.

    0x2d ,

    Bluebubbles requires you have a Mac or Hackintosh

    money_loo ,

    Yes, there are hoops, but it works.

    whofearsthenight ,

    It’s not the blue bubble, it’s that iMessage is like any other of the big message services and has it’s own things like those messaging services. I have a group chat with another iPhone user, and an Android user. Just sending texts is whatever, but when you start using the messaging features like tapbacks to like a message or replying to a specific message, it gets real fucky real fast.

    Although I am glad iMessage was created (largely as a fuck you to carrier fees) these days I wish that Apple would either make an Android app or the world (US mostly) could collectively move to a good messaging app/protocol (which includes e2e encryption and isn’t fucking Meta.)

    mexicancartel ,

    That sounds like good messaging apps doesn’t exist… Have you ever tried telegram?

    photonic_sorcerer ,
    @photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    If you get ostracized from a group for the wrong chat bubble color, that group wasn’t worth your time.

    phamanhvu01 ,

    This 100%

    mind ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    TheAnonymouseJoker ,
    @TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    FlexibleToast ,

    That’s fine. I don’t want to be friends with someone that would ostracize me for the green bubble.

    BackOnMyBS , (edited )
    @BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world avatar

    But then how will people know I am willing to blow money, implying that I have extra cash to waste, if they don’t see a blue bubble?

    0x2d ,

    I have heard people at my school criticizing Android for “green text messages”

    saltesc ,

    I’m 39 and not even so old I use native messaging and telephony styled services. Hell, not even my dad does.

    Did the kids in your school grow up in the 80s or is stuff like iMessage making a comeback because it’s retrocool?

    Serinus ,

    Kids think iPhones are cool for a good reason. If a fifth grade kid has an android, it’s probably a cheap one. There are no cheap iPhones.

    Sure, Pixels are better than iPhones straight up. But who the fuck is buying their kid the latest Pixel?

    So cool (read: spoiled) kids have iPhones. The others start on cheap androids. That stigma sticks around at least awhile.

    mint_tamas ,

    This is only a thing in the US. In other parts of the world, iphone users have to adapt to whatever messenger platform has the most people in it (likely whatsapp or facebook messenger, maybe telegram)

    mayo ,

    Not yet but one day. If I could get a phone and keep it for 20 years (with repairs/upgraded parts) then I’d switch.

    If apple removes the plug then i’ll start considering the other options when my current phone becomes unusable. Until then it’s too easy to buy an old iphone and hold onto it for 6 years.

    derbolle ,

    fairphone 5 is out :-) it is getting upgrades until the 2030s. and it is so easily repairable that it is realistic to use it for a long time

    gizmonicus ,

    I am sincerely hoping that makes it to the US. The only thing available now is the Fair Phone 4.

    mayo ,

    This is the one I’m thinking of. Love the concept. Potential challenge is that in Canada things, in particular, shipping is expensive. I’m pretty broke right now so my inclination is to save money over the long run and not be wasteful.

    I’m not a phone person though. Useful device but not something that takes up much of my day to day time.

    iampivot ,

    Google Pixel 8 will have same update length as Apples Iphone.

    audiomodder ,

    I don’t know about you, but I don’t honestly remember the last time I connected my phone to my computer to transfer data

    FuntyMcCraiger ,

    I connected my phone to tether internet since the power was out but the cell network was still going.

    audiomodder ,

    iPhones can tether via a wifi connection, so that’s not necessary. Does drain the battery a bit faster, though.

    hemko ,

    Most desktops don’t have WiFi cards + it does add more latency to WiFi hotspot. Say your internet died at home and you still want to play games or work in vdi

    money_loo ,

    iPhone can share it over Bluetooth too, if it helps.

    Resistentialism ,

    Android can as well.

    money_loo ,

    I wasn’t sure so I didn’t want to say, thanks for the information.

    hydroel ,

    All smartphones I’ve had since around 2013 could do that. Is Wifi Hotspot still locked behind an ISP paywall exclusively on iPhone?

    audiomodder ,

    Nope. That’s kinda my point though. You don’t NEED to tether.

    oldGregg ,

    Good for you! I do it at least 3 times a week

    audiomodder ,

    Mind if I ask why?

    money_loo ,

    Privately transferring large porn files?

    socsa ,

    Same. Having a 10Gb/s data link from my phone comes in handy pretty fucking often.

    BackOnMyBS ,
    @BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t do it often either, but it came in clutch this week when I re-installed Linux Mint and needed to download the drivers for my wifi card via tethering.

    Railison ,

    EU has already warned them not to throttle charging and transfer speeds just because a cable isn’t MFI

    LethalSmack ,

    It’s worth noting that the current lightning cable is also limited to usb 2.0 speeds. They’re not making the usb c version any slower than it already is.

    socsa ,

    Right, but I assume what it means is that any Apple charging cable will be generally useless as a USBC cable for anything other than charging an iPhone, which very much violates the spirit of the EU anti-waste law.

    For most people, it won’t matter. But a USBC cable which can’t support USB3 data rates probably also won’t support proper USB-PD, or USB-HDMI/DP, etc. The dream of having one universal physical standard for charging and high data rate comms will be violated in principle, even if it makes little difference in practice.

    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

    The iPhone already doesn’t support USB 3.0 speeds, or video out from the port so nothing would be lost.

    And the data rate of the cable has no impact on it’s power delivery capability. I have USB 2.0 speed cables capable of doing 240 watts. Plus the iPhone already does USB PD, just through the lightning port. lemmy.world/…/12152bd5-5977-4cf3-9dd5-c302ca78462…

    USB C is already a mess, and plenty of Android devices don’t support USB 3.0 speeds either. Apple changing to USB C port changes nothing except for the literal receptacle.

    whocares314 ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    wheeldawg ,

    Why assume the cable would have low speeds? Are those enough cheaper to justify that?

    I mean, it would be a trademark Apple kind of thing to do, for sure. They may take privacy seriously, but literally every other thing they do is pure scumbag.

    I don’t wanna assume they are 3.0 speed either, but do we know one way or the other?

    Also, is there really a use for 240W cords? I’ve never heard of a phone accepting triple digit speeds at all, and even a tablet wouldn’t go that high.

    whofearsthenight ,

    I honestly feel like it’s a mistake that USB-C means almost nothing outside of “it’s got this port shape.” The idea was that you have one port and one cable, and you plug whatever you want into it. In practice, virtually no where is this true. Is this a data port or power only? What speed for either? Does the port support Thunderbolt or no? Video or no? Does the cable support data or just power? What speed? Video? Which HDMI spec? Thunderbolt? Grab 3 random devices with USB-C and 3 random USB-C cables and see how often you get the intended outcome.

    Tbh I think the only goal that USB-C really accomplishes is that it’s less shitty than micro-usb (might as well make all of those ports/connectors out of paper mache) or USB-A (let’s make a port shape that there is no way for anyone living or dead to plug in correctly the first time.)

    jasondj ,

    Nearly every USB-A male I’ve seen has a USB logo carved into the rubber boot.

    This is on the “up” side of the cable, and would face “up” from the perspective of how the computer is intended to be used (or from the perspective of the motherboard, if we’re talking about a tower PC).

    rotopenguin ,
    @rotopenguin@infosec.pub avatar

    Legislating that everything shall be a $50 20Gbps cable stuffed with impedance matched micro-coax and shielding on top of shielding on top of shielding just means that nobody can afford it.

    USB-C is not and will never this thing that you are imagining. It is one commonly shaped hole, with all the incompatible connections of yesteryear now lurking in a mess of unreadable symbols next to each port. This one can charge. That one can thunderbolt. These can send out power, if you want to use your laptop as a $2000 portable battery. This one sends out video, but wait it’s only HDMI, and only if that port over there isn’t using its superspeed lanes.

    MsPenguinette ,

    People are transferring data to their phones via a cable?

    mexicancartel ,

    Yes

    MsPenguinette ,

    Why? (Genuine question)

    gotrandom ,

    Being able to record raw 4k60 video means huge file sizes. Transferring over what we hope will be usb3 speeds would be much faster than any other available medium to iPhone.

    whofearsthenight ,

    This is the amazingly, insanely stupid thing about the idea that at least for Apple’s Pro line, which they’ll painstakingly put together videos showing iPhones being used as actual movie cameras in big gimbal rigs and how they can capture 4k60 and put messages in the OS that shooting 20 minutes of video is going to take your entire phone storage even if you got the big one, and the options for transfer are wifi or USB 2.0. For a potential terabyte. Very Pro to sit and wait for an hour or several.

    Bytemeister ,

    Sure. It’s a super fast and easy way to transfer videos, music and images. You can also back up your phone using the cable. I used to use my for USB tethering to get around hotspot charges. It’s also handy for loading projects for development.

    MsPenguinette ,

    Thanks. Tho does surprise me to hear that backups to the computer is still a thing people do on any sort of scale. Dev projects tho, that def makes sense

    Bytemeister ,

    My partner actually just backed up their iPhone today using a cable. They don’t want to pay the extra storage fees for iCloud, and they like having control of their own data.

    rotopenguin ,
    @rotopenguin@infosec.pub avatar

    That’s usually the only way that backups will work.

    JackFrostNCola ,

    At that speed their ‘lightning’ cable doesnt sound all to lightening-ey then, more of a mild static.

    DharmaCurious ,
    @DharmaCurious@startrek.website avatar

    Not just expensive, they’re also environmentally unsound! They use more power to charge, more plastic for casing. Hooray?

    arefx ,

    Android is superior and I’ll die on this hill. Want a phone built nicer than an iPhone? Here you go. Want a cheap phone because your on a budget or it’s not important to you? Here you go. Want an operating system you can configure to your liking, or even install your own version of it? Here you go. Want a headphone jack? Here you go.

    qyron ,

    Make some room; I’m camping on the hill with you.

    TheAnonymouseJoker ,
    @TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

    iPhone only has 2 use cases: FaceTime/iMessage/AirDrop needs, or if you have Macbook, iPad, Apple TV et al (deep into Apple ecosystem).

    Android is simply superior for everything, and one of those use cases is largely only a USA problem.

    money_loo ,

    “Just want a phone that works and does everything you need without thinking about it with support past two years?..…we, uh, I’ll get back to you…,”

    Switchy85 ,

    Samsung and pixels have been doing 3-4 years of updates for a while now, and pixels are moving to 5 years with the 8 series coming out in a couple months.

    money_loo ,

    “For a while now” = Since Feb 2022.

    But yeah, that’s awesome they finally decided to support their devices!

    And Google? Well, thankfully they don’t have a track record of abandoning things, so I’d totally trust them.

    JackiesFridge ,
    @JackiesFridge@lemmy.world avatar

    IPhones are cool and all, but I’m a fan of usable file management.

    money_loo ,

    I actually use both, so I kid a lot but ultimately a phone is a phone. I find it funny when people take it personally.

    MrPenguinSky ,

    We’ll die on this hill together.

    WhyJiffie ,

    Just wait until android phone brands also remove all physical connectors

    arefx ,

    I can still buy an Android phone with an aux input I think I’ll still be able to buy a phone with a USB port. Android is about options. But nice hypothetical, it really brought a lot to the table.

    WhyJiffie ,

    Ok, they will have cables, but “Android is about options”, yet it’s hard to find a phone that does not have a rounded screen, a notch, or a screen embedded camera.
    Honestly I’m using a 7 year old phone and I’ve almost given up on finding a new one with sensible hardware. In the last years android really became much closer to iphones, and not to their advantage in my eyes.

    stonedemoman ,

    Samsung has already surpassed apple in hardware. We’re at the point where equivalent Samsung’s multi-core performance is the same, the 25% faster iGPU carries the single-core performance way beyond what the iPhone can do, and they ship with 25%+ more RAM.

    I’m hoping more people start to realize that healthy market competition is a good thing for Apple, it has already changed many of their anti-consumer practices in the past.

    Anomalous_Llama ,

    I was on Android for years. Galaxy’s and Pixels

    Without fail around 1.5 years the battery was almost useless and the usability would slow to a grind and it would get super warm. I had to upgrade often.

    Eventually decided to try iPhone. I’m on a 12 pro that I got at launch still. Never used a case or screen protector. Dropped more times than I can count. I’ve even been swimming with it several times by accident. (Twice over an hour before realizing)

    Battery life is greater than 80% of its launch life still. The phone still fucking works great, I have zero issues with it. I have saved money by using iPhone because I’m not replacing it all the time.

    I LOVE Android for its flexibility and freedom of choice etc. those things can’t be taken away from that platform. But a phone that’s built like a brick shit house that just fucking works? I found that in an iPhone.

    WoodenBleachers ,
    @WoodenBleachers@lemmy.basedcount.com avatar

    Exactly. It’s the same for virtually anything code-related; more flexibility equals more bugs. Yes, i phone goes a little overboard sometimes, but there phones aren’t just some status symbol. An android is a fine option, it just doesn’t meet some people’s needs. It’s like when people try to suggest windows or linux to me. I use each of them frequently, you know what I find the most buggy? Windows. You know what needs the most configuration? Linux. The Mac just works. “But Google can fix the issue” I know it can. I never said it couldn’t. I just like being able to turn on my device and have it work after I’ve fixed bugs all day

    Serinus ,

    Guess which one of those gets foisted onto grade school kids.

    Bytemeister ,

    It’s a drop in the bucket really. You know who has decided not to use a wireless charger in order to save money on their electric bill… Nobody.

    DharmaCurious ,
    @DharmaCurious@startrek.website avatar

    It’s not really about the tiny amount for an individual, it’s a problem when multiplied by the millions upon millions of iPhone users, and because they steer the market, the millions and millions of Android users that will follow.

    hydroel ,

    Wireless charging would be a catastrophe at that scale. It is terribly inefficient; multiplied by the number of iPhones in circulation, and we would have gigantic amounts of energy wasted because Apple didn’t want to bend to a non-proprietary port. We already live in a world where the energy is an issue and the EU USB-C law is precisely aimed at reducing waste, it would be a horrendous decision on a disastrous scale, especially as other phone makers would quickly follow.

    dubyakay ,

    Source?

    Wooki ,

    Wireless charging should be regulated. It’s a wasteful joke that burns more carbon by wasting electricity

    shitescalates ,

    The amount of electricity used to charge phones is statistical dust. If you want to save electricity there are 1000 better places to worry about.

    Ilovethebomb ,

    Yep, definitely. A bigger problem is the additional heat generated, especially if the phone is also being used at the same time.

    Wooki , (edited )

    Multiplying every phone in use by the average capacity loss at 50% that’s the best case scenario for loss ( ignoring the newer phones using significantly more power and glass to insulate). You do not have a statistically dust number of wasted carbon every day.

    shitescalates ,

    Let’s say everyone in the world has a smartphone and charges it 100% every day. Let’s say that it’s 4000 mah battery so they waste 2000 mah. This is very very generous. That’s 7.4 wh per person per day X 8b people X 365 days a year = 2.1x10^13 wh. In 2022 we used 1.7x10^17. Or 0.01% Like I said, statistical dust.

    rotopenguin ,
    @rotopenguin@infosec.pub avatar

    The energy consumption of replacing a worn out cable is pretty bad too.

    The energy consumption of replacing a whole phone when the port wears out is considerably worse.

    Oh and as a bonus, the wireless charger provides unbeatable isolation from lightning strikes or a defective power brick shorting to mains. I can’t say how many phones are saved that way, but it’s also something of an energy savings.

    Wooki , (edited )

    Delusion is strong in this one.

    “Worn out cable…. Ect ect fallacy about power loss.”

    Nice straw man argument, you are really reaching. Not only will it never happen to get close to the wireless waste but we are talking about Brand new future device.

    I abuse my charging port with headphones, 5 years not replaced. This still would not come close to the loss.

    it’s at least 50% power loss over wireless. At minimum.

    resilience.org/…/wireless-charging-a-colossal-was…

    rotopenguin ,
    @rotopenguin@infosec.pub avatar

    I’m not talking about “resistance change in a cord blah blah”. I’m talking about the power and resources to manufacture and ship a new phone, after your old phone fails prematurely. The kilowatt-hours being poured into a phone’s battery over its service life are a miniscule part of its TCO. Doubling that makes it two pittances.

    OscarRobin ,

    Apple uses the standard USB-PD standard for all existing wired USB-C charging, uses the QI standard for wireless, and directly contributed their magsafe technology to the next generation of the QI wireless standard, so there’s no reason to think they will make iPhone wireless charging proprietary.

    SirQuackTheDuck ,

    Furthermore, they’ll be shooting themselves in the foot. The EU is already curtailing wireless charging lock-in, by mandating Qi charging support. A tailor-made solution might have a higher speed, but as technologies improve, the “harmonised interoperability” will be bumped up by the EU parliament.

    Lastly, this legislation doesn’t seem aimed at just the EU. My legalese isn’t all that great, but it seems they’re highly encouraging members of the EEA (non-EU) to adopt similar legislation too.

    Source: europa.eu

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