Where did they say the government handed out credit scores? The meme was pointing out a double standard, not saying the government hands out credit scores.
This entire comment is just you admitting you have below average reading comprehension.
Yes FOSS is communism, spontaneously arising under capitalism, requiring zero bloody revolutions.
Marx was right about the need for people to be nice and give things to each other, but he was wrong about it being necessary to destroy capitalism before this happened.
he was wrong about it being necessary to destroy capitalism before this happened
I thought it was more that (using modern terminology) he viewed socialism as an emergent phenomenon that would arise due to the unresolved contradictions within capitalism. So socialism doesn’t require the destruction of capitalism in order to start, it’s more that once it emerges, it’ll supersede capitalism. The Leninist approach of destroying the old order, then building the new one at gunpoint didn’t work all that well (to vastly understate), leading to a long period of totalitarian state capitalism, where workers had no control over the means of production (which is the main attribute Marx ascribes to socialism) and degeneration into nationalism, imperialist nostalgia and cronyism.
But so far, along with failed revolutions hijacked by totalitarians, the main thing we’ve seen is that spontaneous emergence of working, non-coercive socialist organizations such as co-operatives has been met with strong and sometimes murderous opposition from the incumbent capitalists.
Marx believed this unresolved phenomena would lead to violent revolution, Lenin only added his analysis of Capitalism’s evolution into Imperialism, and his theory of Revolution, which focuses on the idea of the most radical workers forming a vanguard to bring the other workers up and help direct them. Marx believed the Revolution would happen and from it Socialism would emerge, hence him advocating for “siezing the Means of Production.” He also pointed directly to the Paris Commune, a hostile takeover of government aparatus, as the Dictatorship of the Proletarait he advocated for in action.
Lenin wasn’t just “hey, let’s ignore Marx and do this at gunpoint,” it was more “hey, let’s listen to Marx, and do this at gunpoint.” Lenin actually addresses this utter de-fanging of Marx in bourgeois society in the opening section of The State and Revolution:
“What is now happening to Marx’s theory has, in the course of history, happened repeatedly to the theories of revolutionary thinkers and leaders of oppressed classes fighting for emancipation. During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the “consolation” of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it. Today, the bourgeoisie and the opportunists within the labor movement concur in this doctoring of Marxism. They omit, obscure, or distort the revolutionary side of this theory, its revolutionary soul. They push to the foreground and extol what is or seems acceptable to the bourgeoisie. All the social-chauvinists are now “Marxists” (don’t laugh!). And more and more frequently German bourgeois scholars, only yesterday specialists in the annihilation of Marxism, are speaking of the “national-German” Marx, who, they claim, educated the labor unions which are so splendidly organized for the purpose of waging a predatory war!”
As for the USSR, it wasn’t totalitarian. Workers did have control, there were no real bourgeois elements, no competing markets, and the state was not an “other” compared to the Workers. They had democratic measures in the form of Soviets, and the consequences of this were free education, healthcare, high home ownership rates, and so forth. Was the USSR perfect? Absolutely not, but it was history’s first major attempt at Marxist Socialism, and we can study it for that. The revolution wasn’t “hijacked,” it was led by the Workers and continued to be until corruption took hold over time and the USSR collapsed, being hacked up and sold for parts as a part of “Shock Doctrine,” plumetting life expectancy, GDP, and causing 2 million excess deaths.
Co-operatives are met with hostile action because it’s easy to crush them when you have the state and monopoly on your side, hence why they will never likely be a leading force for Socialism within Capitalism, even if they should still be supported by Socialists everywhere.
FOSS isn’t communism, Foss hasn’t eliminated class relations. Using an free open source library to make more money for your boss isn’t communism. While I love FOSS, it’s definitely not communism.
Marx never said people aren’t nice and don’t give things to each other under capitalism as far as I know, where are you taking that from?
And the existence of FOSS is reliant on a few key sectors which capitalism could very well destroy or mutate into something much different than what they are now. I don’t see far-fetched the idea that the entire physical infrastructure of the internet will one day be privately owned, and companies will be able to decide who takes part and who doesn’t, what kind of content is allowed… The fact that the capitalist overlords still haven’t eliminated it, doesn’t mean they possibly can’t.
You mean the system that makes it illegal to have an abortion or to marry the person you love if they happen to be the same sex as you? Sign me up then cause, yeah, only bad people suffer in that system
Ugh… Here we go again with the social credit… It’s been debunked so many times that it’s not even funny anymore. You can ask any Chinese person about it and they don’t even know what it is because it’s really not a thing. Financial credit scores on the other hand…
Yeah, it might have been funny the first time 10 years ago, but repeating the same joke over and over again, often makes it annoying and unfunny, as is the case with your comment, especially when it’s not even accurate.
The current American debt is more than the current GDP. That would be fine, if we were paying it down, but it’s growing faster than ever.
It would also be fine if it was healthy debt. Debt taken to improve infrastructure in meaningful ways, improve education, shit, even a war debt to create an old school tributary state (economically speaking).
And it would all be fine if everyone in the room were adults, and there wasn’t a significant portion of America actively and willfully trying to cause governmental collapse.
The American citizen, on average, will spend $37,000 in the next decade to pay the interest on that debt, $12.4 trillion in total.
All without universal healthcare mind you. Or, on average, a reasonable retirement age.
You need to start asking yourself whether the people who keep assuring you not to worry your pretty little head about the APR on your loans, and they are ultimately partly your loans as a citizen, are actually acting in your interest.
Your comment stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of public institutions and how money works.
It doesn’t matter that the debt is higher than the GDP if it’s debt in the currency that the state creates. Japan has a debt of 250% of the GDP and it’s always going to pay for it. Why? Because it’s in Yen, and the Japanese public sector is the ONLY institution in the world capable of creating Yen. If they wanted, the Japanese central bank could quite literally perform 100 keystrokes on a keyboard, and repay all debt early tomorrow, at a cost of exactly 0 yen to the taxpayer.
Taxes aren’t the way a state funds itself. Again, the state creates its own currency, why would it need tax collection to get that currency if it can create it at will at a keyboard’s stroke? Taxes serve many purposes, such as forcing people to use your currency in the private sector (they will need that currency to pay for the taxes so it’s the one they will use), such as disincentivizing certain behaviours (tax on tobacco for example), or such as reducing inequality (progressive income taxes), or also importantly, removing money from the private sector to reduce or prevent inflation. But the one thing taxes don’t do is funding the state budget, since the state’s budget is unlimited in theory. There are practical limits, but availability of currency really isn’t one of them.
The American citizen won’t spend a single dollar paying back state debt, in fact it’s exactly the opposite. The state creates the currency with which it pays back the debt, and it’s private citizens and corporations who the state owes the interest rate to. If you buy a bond for $1000 at an interest rate or 3%, next year you’ll have $1030. The state, through debt, literally creates money for the private sector. It makes people and companies wealthier. Taxes make people and companies poorer, but taxes and debt are completely unrelated to one another, since the state really doesn’t need taxes to pay the debt.
I fully agree with your analysis of the poor usage of the state budget and people not getting the welfare state they deserve by right, but that’s not something that has to do with debt, it has to do with the government representatives not acting for the benefit of the majority but a select elite of capitalist owners. Debt is purely a financial tool that serves purposes such as creating money, or controlling the interest rates of the country so that people and companies will take more or fewer loans, which has an effect in the economy.
The other person who responded to me made a very all written post but it gets a core assumption completely wrong.
They seemed to think that tax revenue in some way has to happen for spending to happen. That’s why they think GDP has anything to do with our ability to service debt. But the federal government creates money ex nihilo.
Money has to be created before it can be destroyed through taxation. Spending and back stopping creation of money by private banks through the reserve system comes first. You can’t destroy something you haven’t created.
It’s sad, really. Economists and politicians have blinded everyone with what I think of as “the money delusion”.
It doesn’t matter if the money can be “gathered up” to be spent on things we need. We do not rely on the money of the wealthy. What matters is actual, real resources and services we can provide.
The national “debt” is a misnomer. That’s the amount of dollars left in circulation that have not been destroyed through taxation, as well as the “dollars” that pay interest which we call bonds.
I’m glad to see at least a handful of other people who understand. Fight the good fight, fellow human.
I get your point, but they cant just “print” currency so we could actually not be able to pay when people/countries stop buying the bonds or lose faith in the system.
Then stop selling bonds and start investing directly (build schools, repair bridges, pay your employees, etc.).
Countries don’t have to take the detour through state bonds because they can make money out of thin air. State bonds are a self-imposed and there’s no law of nature that mandates using them.
Serious question? Money today is nothing more than a number in an account. When a country needs more of its own currency, it can increase it’s account by that amount.
Why would that happen? There’s no proof that printing money (while considering the boundaries of the real resources like available work force) automatically leads to hyperinflation.
I guess there is no proof, but thats not really possible to prove. But what we can see is how much inflation the US has gotten just under the Fed, and then look at examples in the past like germany that used printing of the mark to pay of debts.
Okay, but even if the USA can’t change the law regarding states bonds, it is virtually impossible that people stop buying US states bonds since the US Dollar is kinda like the most established currency in the world.
I hear what you are saying, but that is changing, america is losing its strangle hold on the world. That became most evident with what we tried to do with Russia after their invasion and the cracks in our system are starting to become more obvious. Unless you think that the US will be the worlds reserve currency forever, there will be a time when it falls.
I see what you mean, but this is not about having a strangle hold on the world or being the world’s reserve currency. This is about having your own currency and collecting taxes in this currency. As long as a country collects taxes in its own currency there will be demand for that currency.
The economist ewww. The limits to how much money you can print is defined by the productive capacity of your country. If you print more money to increase productive capacity then it’s generally not a problem. The debt is simply an accounting fiction at that point.
…except that it used to be that your ability to secure a loan was based on where you went to school, how firm your handshake was, and if you happened to have the right skin color and sex organs.
The current system certainly isn’t perfect; and if you’re denied a loan you have a legal right (in the US) to know the reason.
There are systemic issues, to be sure. But the nominal goal is absolutely better than what we used to have.
We can’t ignore that there are other ways of doing it besides credit scores or overt racism. Some countries have no credit scores at all and just base loan eligibility on your salary and employment history.
And how exactly is guessing your credit worthiness based on those factors a better system than literally keeping track of what happened each previous time money was lent to you, when it comes to making a decision on lending money to you?
This is like arguing it’s a better idea to select NBA players by their height, than by their performance in high school and college basketball games.
Sorry, I’m not sure how to answer “how is measuring your credit worthiness based on your income a good way to determine how much to lend you.” I would think it’s pretty obvious that your capacity to repay a loan is dependent on your current income, not how many loans and credit cards you’ve had active in the past.
1 in 4 households earning over $100,000 a year live paycheck to paycheck–not because they can’t make ends meet, but because their money management sucks. A high income has very little relationship with responsible borrowing, despite what many would assume.
I’d definitely recommend getting a credit report (not from the websites that advertise with an insane jingle, but from the actual credit bureaus — you’re entitled to a free report). Mine had debt from a relative with a similar name; I was able to get that removed. They will also tell you in more detail what goes in to calculating it.
I agree that it’s not perfect, and often very opaque, but you should be able to get some understanding of why she doesn’t have good credit.
Just because you refuse to learn doesn’t mean it’s magic. It is very simple to understand why exactly you have the credit score you do. Maybe mommy isn’t being entirely truthful with you.
Does your mom have debt that she pays on time? Is her “doing everything right” visible to credit scoring agencies and aligned what statistic says about good borrowing customers?
Credit score doesn’t mean “runs a good personal economy” it means “likely to pay their loans on time, consistently, based on statistics that are observable”.
Most people who think they understand how credit scores work…don’t understand how credit scores work.
The biggest things are loan-to-limit, payment history, and average age of accounts.
Loan-to-limit is easily achieved by keeping balances below 50%, and ideally below 30%. It’s also helped tremendously by not carrying a revolving balance (paying the statement balance in full each month) and not closing idle cards.
Payment history is of course helped by making payments on time.
And AAoA is probably the easiest. Just don’t close cards. Call and “downgrade” a card if it isn’t worth the annual fee. If there’s no annual fee, there’s no reason to close a card.
Just make sure you use it every now and then and pay it off. I sock-drawered one of my oldest cards a long time ago and it just closed last month from being idle, and that took a hit to my score (high limit gone and it’s no longer incrementing time in my AAoA).
It’s also worth mentioning that credit scores don’t matter until you are looking for credit. Credit cards are probably the easiest way to build credit, as long as they are used properly. But they’ll give a basic card to any schmuck. Where it really matters is getting mortgages and larger loans like cars. That’s where having a good score matters. And also better cards that earn more points/miles/cashback and have other fringe benefits.
Only people who are bad credit risks ever come up with this take, lmao.
The sole function of credit scores is to benefit people who are reliably ‘good for it’ when they borrow money. Without them, everyone is treated as just as high a risk as the worst borrowers who are least likely to pay back their debts, and you gain no benefit from reliably paying back your debts. But with them, your good borrowing is kept track of, and good reputation means lenders trust you more to pay your debts back, so they’re willing to lend more, and they are willing to charge less interest.
Removing credit scores changes nothing for bad borrowers, and hurts good borrowers.
The thing is you’re forgetting who are good borrowers and who are bad borrowers. A person with a low income with a precarious job will be a very bad borrower, and imposing a higher interest rate on them on top of that is just the final nail in the coffin. We generally believe universal healthcare is good, and we don’t want to discriminate “good health” and “bad health” people and make unhealthy people pay more, do we?
imposing a higher interest rate on them on top of that is just the final nail in the coffin.
That’s the only way to justify loaning to people like that at all, given how much more often they default (and the lender never gets repaid at all). If lenders were forced to give the same interest rate to everyone, that would cause them not to lend to “A person with a low income with a precarious job” at all.
If the lenders operate with the purpose of maximizing profit, then yeah, it makes sense not to loan money to people in precarious situations except at high interest rates, that’s my whole point: that’s evil, the profit motive leads to evil decisions. Let’s have public banks instead, where interest rates for loans are equalised, in the same way that every taxpayer gets identical access to healthcare regardless of how much they contribute through their income.
You’re discounting the people who have always lived within their means and so never took on debt. They also don’t have good credit. They’ve never missed a payment. They’re good for the money. But they don’t have a history showing that because they’ve never needed that.
You’re discounting the people who have always lived within their means and so never took on debt.
No I’m not. Those people are unknown quantities, and so also suffer if credit scores go away, because bad borrowers are worse than first-time borrowers, so without credit scores, first-timers will be treated worse.
Technically, at least where I live in Canada, you have to pay taxes on crypto income and capital gains. It’s possible for goverments to track crypto transactions.
That being said, if you think normal fiat currencies are without crimes and illegal activities, you’re kinda stupid.
I’m not talking about the current way, I’m talking about the possibility of a privacy-focused crypto, issued by the state, where transactions can be made private with the Blockchain. This crypto, as it would be used for normal transactions, wouldn’t have more variability or speculation than the variability and speculation in converting US Dollars to UK Pounds. The post talks in hypotheticals, I do too.
I don’t think fiat currency isn’t used for illegal activity, I think crypto is mostly not used for normal transactions.
It’s not even about reputation, it’s mostly about taxes. You enforce the private sector using the state’s monopoly of violence to pay tributes in a currency that you create. This way, when there are transactions in the private sector, the main currency that people will want to use (provided it’s stable enough) is the one that lets them pay their taxes later. You can’t pay taxes with dollars in Hungary, which makes Hungarian people use Hungarian currency instead of Chinese Yuan even if the Chinese Yuan is a much stronger currency.
And yes, the state having the monopoly of violence and enforcing taxes is a good thing, before anyone accuses me of being an anarchocapitalist.
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