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eya ,
@eya@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

artix my beloved

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t use Arch, btw

azvasKvklenko ,

No longer* xD

Zink ,

I use mint, btw.

(…Not really but it fits the joke the best. I have used it and it’s an excellent distro whether you are a beginner or just want something stable and full featured. )

grrgyle ,

Mint is such a pragmatic distro. Honestly I admire people who are just happy with their Mint and don’t feel the need to distro hop to ever more esoteric package ecosystems just to feel alive

yamapikariya , (edited )
@yamapikariya@lemmyfi.com avatar

The only reason I stopped using mint is some of the programs didn’t exist or were outdated. I’m about to settle at NixOS.

Edit: I ended up going back to my intermediary between mint and nix: Arch Linux

John ,

You could use nix on mint btw.

NostraDavid ,
@NostraDavid@programming.dev avatar

I’m slowly learning Nix, and I’ve learned that Nix has more packages available than any single distro could ever deliver: repology.org/repositories/graphs.

It even has more than AUR (Arch User Repository, BTW)

beirdobaggins ,

I use Debian everywhere but if I need a Live Linux environment to recover files, clone a drive, wipe a drive, or really anything else I use ventoy and a Linux mint iso.

monsterpiece42 ,

I work in a PC repair shop (mostly Windows stuff) and I do the same with Ventoy and Mint. I especially like it for gParted but have a variety of things I use on it.

anarchy79 ,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

What dist to you use btw?

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

I use BTW btw

user1234 ,

Is that the one from the Korean boy band?

dog_ ,

No, that’s the Bangladesh Toilet Service

linearchaos ,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

NixOS, it has a lot of the same pain points as Arch, even steeper learning curve for installation and configuration. And lose support for even more software titles.

If it’s not 1995 slackware difficult I don’t want it.

corsicanguppy ,

True story. SlackWare was why I considered Debian in 1998. Briefly.

MyNamesNotRobert ,

I couldn’t figure out how to make the wifi on my Debian machine reliable so I replaced the default wifi manager front-end and backend with iwctl, the same thing Arch uses by default. It seems to be working but now I have an unholy abomination of Debian spliced with Arch DNA.

AstroLightz ,

A simple fix is to replace the rest of Debian with Arch.

caseyweederman ,

Every distro is an unholy abomination made by plugging the maintainers’ favorite parts together

pmk ,

It’s perfectly fine to use different ways to do things in Debian, just don’t mix incompatible repos.
wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#IWCtl

0x4E4F OP ,

Lol, that’s normal in Arch, Void, Gentoo, LFS.

Almost every proprietery software there is out there has only Debian/Ubuntu packages, yet we run them in Arch, Void, Gentoo… as long as the dependencies are there, it doesn’t matter what distro you run the software on.

TrickDacy ,

I’ve used arch on one machine now, am a total noob to it, and I really like it. I see what people are raving about and I see no reason to shit on it. I don’t really care if 6 years ago some people were annoying about it

0x4E4F OP ,

Arch is good, no doubt 👍.

Void is better 😁.

TrickDacy ,

How?

0x4E4F OP ,

Faster, more stable, no systemd, supports musl and architectures not usually supported by most distros. It’s probably the most stable rolling release distro out there.

Theharpyeagle ,

What is the benefit of no systemd?

caseyweederman ,

It’s too popular and it works too well.

0x4E4F OP ,

Not true, doesn’t work well at all. It’s bloated and full of bugs.

throwwyacc ,

What are the systemd bugs that are so bad? I kinda get the bloated comment, but I don’t really mind when it serves its purpose

0x4E4F OP ,

Closing handles on services that for god knows what reason, just hang. Also stopping and starting services again doesn’t always work as intended.

throwwyacc ,

That’s interesting. I’ve never had any issues with systemd directly mainly with poorly setup default configs I’m a big fan of a centralised place to manage services. Works super well with podman quadlets

But I’m not too invested use whatever works for you I reckon

0x4E4F OP ,

I’m also a fan of centralized places to handle things (I prefer having just one package manager, not the package manager and flatpak and pip and god knows what else), but there are other init/service managers.

flying_sheep ,
@flying_sheep@lemmy.ml avatar

I literally haven’t run into a single one in the whole time Arch has been using it.

(I installed Arch shortly before it switched to systemd and have been using it since without pause)

0x4E4F OP ,

You must be running hardware not older than 4 or 5 years. Try running it on hardware 10+ years old.

AlpacaChariot ,

With the price of energy being what it is, people need the systemd flame wars to keep them warm!

0x4E4F OP ,

No, I just don’t like systemd. It’s bloated and full of bugs. Just because almost every distro out there uses it, doesn’t mean it’s good.

AlpacaChariot ,

I’m feeling warmer already, thanks!

0x4E4F OP ,

OK, I have to admit, i kinda fell for it 😂.

AlpacaChariot ,

It made me chuckle, so thanks for that!

zloubida ,
@zloubida@lemmy.world avatar

Boasting, mainly.

Theharpyeagle ,

I have no horse in this race, I don’t have strong feelings about it either way as long as it works. But I can’t help but notice that OP skipped replying to me.

flying_sheep ,
@flying_sheep@lemmy.ml avatar

OP said “bloated and full of bugs”.

I’ve been using Arch since shortly before they started using systemd and literally never ran into a systemd bug.

I have no clue at this point what “bloated” means. Maybe if everything works and you don’t have to hack up your own solution all the time, that’s “bloat”?

DickFiasco , (edited )

The main benefit is that when people get tired of distro flame wars, they can move on to init system flame wars.

mexicancartel ,

Does it support glibc while it supports musl?

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Yes. From their website:

C library diversity

Void Linux supports both the musl and GNU libc implementations, patching incompatible software when necessary and working with upstream developers to improve the correctness and portability of their projects.

mexicancartel ,

“Patching incompatible software”

What does that mean? If glibc is supported why there is a portability issueand requirement of patches?

TheEntity ,

Presumably so it can work with either libc implementation.

mexicancartel ,

Well if glibc is supported all glibc softwares must work right?? Patching the software to support musl would not be needed if it does support glibc

TheEntity ,

Even if it’s supported, it doesn’t mean it needs to be installed in every system. If the user wants to use a Musl-based system, the software working only on glibc needs to be patched. At least that’s how I understood these statements.

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

But the Void Linux team specifically wants to support both glibc and musl

0x4E4F OP ,

Some patches are there for software that reauires systemd or parts of it.

mexicancartel ,

I have checked the void website and it does NOT support glibc. Here is it:

Wait edit: there is musl variant and glibc variant…

Incompatible software

musl practices very strict and minimal standard compliance. Many commonly used platform-specific extensions are not present. Because of this, it is common for software to need modification to compile and/or function properly. Void developers work to patch such software and hopefully get portability/correctness changes accepted into the upstream projects.

Proprietary software usually supports only glibc systems, though sometimes such applications are available as flatpaks and can be run on a musl system. In particular, the proprietary NVIDIA drivers do not support musl, which should be taken into account when evaluating hardware compatibility.

glibc chroot

Software requiring glibc can be run in a glibc chroot.

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

They are likely referring to musl. Patches might be needed for some programs to work with musl.

0x4E4F OP ,

Not just musl, software that depends on systemd (or parts of it) as well.

We also need to patch binaries as well sometimes 😁. It is fun though, cutter and/or iaito are great tools.

0x4E4F OP ,

Yes, there are basically 2 builds for every architecture. One is glibc, the other is musl. I haven’t used the musl builds that much, just toyed with them a few times (mainly because of lack of software), but if you only use open source software that doesn’t specifically depend on the GNU toolchain, yes, you can daily drive it, no doubt there. And yes, it is faster than the glibc builds.

mexicancartel ,

Yeah different builds. Not what i expected

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Many programs aren’t packaged for Void though

0x4E4F OP ,

Repackaging is easy though with xbps-src.

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Tell me more about it. Let’s say I have an Arch (AUR) package that I want to repackage for Void, how do I do it?

0x4E4F OP ,

The syntax is a bit different, but everything else, more or less the same. In fact, if you just wanna repackage a deb or an rpm, it’s even easier than in Arch, xbps-src can handle deb and rpm automatically, it detects dependencies and does repackaging on it’s own. You basically just have to feed it the deb/rpm file in a one liner, that’s it.

I should probably give an example. Here is the template file (they’re called templates in Void) for Viber. You basically just feed it the deb, do a vcopy (copy operation specific to xbps-src) and that’s it, everything else regarding the repackaging is done automatically by xbps-src.

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Thanks for the explanation. How does xbps-src handle dependencies? I.e. does it somehow detect the dependencies in the original package and find corresponding Void Linux packages? What about dependency versions? What happens if a dependency is not available in the Void repos?

0x4E4F OP ,

How does xbps-src handle dependencies?

Regarding feeding it rpm/deb packages, it reads the dependencies from the deb/rpm package and uses the equvalent names in shlibs (shared libraries). That’s basically a list of libs that some applications expect to find, so xbps-src just makes a symbolic link to the equvalent lib with the name that the app expects to find. Look at the example I gave above with libtiff.

Regarding everything else built from source, there are 3 types of dependencies, since the packages are built in a chroot: hostdepends - dependcies that are requires by the chroot system, makedepends - dependencies that are required to build the package, depends - dependencies that are required to run the package. The ones that are required just to run the thing are the just depends, the other 2 are required for building only.

What happens if a dependency is not available in the Void repos?

You find the equivalent lib in Void (the xtools package is a great help for a lot of things, including repackaging), add it to shlibs and that’s it. If it’s proprietery or Void doesn’t have it (higly unlikely if it’s open source… I have yest to run in a case like that), you have to put in the template as a distfile (if proprietery and only binary versions are available), or you have to compile from source (also done automatically by xbps-src once it detect there are distfiles for the lib and is not present in the repos).

Building from source is also easy in most cases (when no patches need to be applied). xbps-src has build styles (gnu-make, meson, etc.), so you just define that in the buildstyle parameter and it does everything automatically, including adding missing build dependencies.

xbps-src goes through a lot of trouble to make packaging and building as automatic as possible.

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Thank you very much for this in-depth explanation. I will definitely consider Void as my next distro of choice.

0x4E4F OP ,

I think you’ll like it 😊.

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I’ll put it on a spare SSD on my PC tomorrow. By any chance, is it possible to install Void on an Apple Silicon MacBook? I’m really annoyed by Fedora Asahi and I’m looking for a better distro to put on it.

0x4E4F OP ,

IDK, depends on the CPU architecture… I’m not that famlilar with Macs, but if it’s x64 capable, yeah, no problem.

I think there was a list of supported architectures on the website 🤔…

Can’t find it now. Anyway, x86, x86_64, ARMv6/v7/v8 are all supported out of the box. PPC is also supported, but you have to build everything yourself from scratch (there was one maintainer that maintained a PPC build, but he gave up on it a year or so ago, he went on to form Chimera Linux), which can be done by crossbuilding on any of the supported architectures using xbps-src… but that’s a lot of work to be honest, if it’s a PPC architecture, you’re better off using Chimera Linux.

I do recommend trying the glibc version first, since you’d have to run everything that depends on glibc in a chroot, on a musl install. Yeah, it is doable, but if you’re not really experienced with this, just use the glibc version.

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Apple Silicon is ARMv8. It needs a custom kernel with custom drivers though. Would it be possible to repackage the Asahi kernel and other packages from their Fedora COPR repo using xbps-src? I’ll definitely try this out at some point because it looks interesting. For now I’ll try Void on my x86 machine though.

0x4E4F OP ,

Yes, that should be possible.

But, I would first try the naked Void install with additional firmware. lspci and lsusb should point you to which manufaturer you’re missing drivers for and you can install the additional firmware from the non-free Void repo, (you can add that manually to the repos, it doesn’t come bundled with it). If that deosn’t work, hey, you can always try repackaging 🤷. Just remember to remove the non-free firmware first, so it doesn’t conict with the repackaged stuff from RH (yes, things like firmware packages or drivers can conflict with each other, especially since you’re taking them from a repo xbps knows nothing about).

Yeah, just test it out on old x86 hardware, that’s what I did at first as well.

TrickDacy ,

Interesting. I will have to try it some time. I just know on my raspberry pi 5, out of the few OSes I could get to run on it, Arch was the fastest and smoothest running, and gets updates all the time. All this, even though rpi5 is not even officially supported yet!

0x4E4F OP ,

Void runs even faster, I’ve tried (on an older RPi, but still).

anarchy79 ,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Oh great so now i have to unlearn systemd again?

0x4E4F OP ,

Runit is even easier than doing things in systemd.

youtu.be/PRpcqj9QR68

It really is that easy. Runit is probably the simplest init/service manager there is out there.

Titou ,

Gonna give it a try one day

jroid8 ,

How is it faster? You mean every program runs faster or what?

0x4E4F OP ,

No, just bootup and general responsivness of the system. Software is still compiled by the ssme compilers used in other distros. Everything is not magically faster.

Though on the musl build, yeah, it is faster. Trouble is, you can’t run glibc software on it. Through chroot, yeah, but natively, no.

56_ ,
@56_@lemmy.ml avatar
  • The package manager is extremely fast
  • The lack of systemd reduces startup time
  • The musl libc marginally speeds up programs
HottieAutie ,

What’s so good about it?

TrickDacy ,

Basically just the fact that it’s very lightweight, I was able to install it on an rpi5 (not officially supported), install only what I needed, and was able to resolve all the issues I had for my niche use-case.

There is a quite noticeable difference in how snappy it feels versus the official rpi OS. Arch runs way zippier on it. Those devices are a little limited hardware-wise so it makes a big difference in what it feels like to use that system.

I also like knowing that the updates flowing in so quickly, I get the latest fixes and new features before I would on any of the other distros I’ve used. I have always been a little scared of rolling releases but over the last couple months I haven’t seen any breakages yet so fingers crossed! A lot of people have tried to tell me rolling release can be solid, but I was skeptical.

bort ,

snappy it feels versus the official rpi OS

I blame the desktop manager. Once I ditched the default von on the pi, and replaced it with standard gnome, the pi became almost as snappy as my regular notebook.

in general: standard debian should be exactly as light-weight as arch.

TrickDacy ,

Good to know. Yeah, I actually did try to install debian iirc but I didn’t have any luck.

TrickDacy ,

Oh I misread what you wrote in the first paragraph. Yeah I actually did try that route too, installing Gnome on PI OS lite. I used this guide: forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=276512

It actually was pretty slow for me for some reason. I had some weird crashes and things too, so I abandoned that.

bort ,

for me it was on a pi5. maybe the amd64 was what made it work for me? idk.

ByteWelder ,
@ByteWelder@lemmy.ml avatar

The existence of ArchWiki and the Arch User Respository (AUR). And rolling releases, if that’s your thing.

ILikeBoobies ,

It fits me

anarchy79 ,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

It’s a bit tounge in cheek, nobody actually got mad at the arch namedropping. More like “I’m a platinum level player in LoL”. Lol.

TrickDacy ,

I always got the impression that it was more of an “Oh god one of THESE insufferable people”. I’m just saying from my experience – they have a point. Arch is pretty nice.

tla ,

Lel

Riven ,
@Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Damn you’re calling me out. It’s emerald now.

FreshLight ,

I was asked what I think of the distro “Arch btw” since everyone recommends it. Gold.

backhdlp ,
@backhdlp@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

She learned NixOS

0x4E4F OP ,

Look at the sub 😉.

JargonWagon ,

I saw you post that a couple of times and didn’t realize you meant the sub within the picture, I was trying to find the significance of this being posted in linuxmemes lol

0x4E4F OP ,

Meeh, it was funny… not a meme per say, but still, funny 😁.

sayitghoul ,

I don’t see what the problem is with Arch Linux and why it gets so much flak. I am not a Linux expert by any measure, but I use EndeavourOS and find it really use to use (don’t ask me to install from scratch). Its extremely stable and I like the fact that it gets updated constantly.

The only other distro I really liked is MX Linux. My main gripe was that I don’t want to reinstall every so many years. I want to set up an OS and just use it without worrying about it being a temporary thing. But maybe I’ll change my mind in the future.

I’m not for or against any distro really, maybe except Ubuntu and its bloat. I just use what best suits me, which is the whole point of all the different distros.

Communist ,
@Communist@lemmy.ml avatar

Manjaro is truly the worst distro of all time and probably helps give arch a bad name

user224 ,
@user224@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I use Manjaro, btw.

jupiter_jazz ,

Samesies

pixeltree ,

Oracle Linux exists

NOPper ,

I had like 2 issues that took literal minutes to fix over the years I ran Manjaro, I know there were some silly misconfigurations years ago but I never paid much attention then the hate and it ran all my stuff just fine. 🤷‍♂️

Built a new rig a few weeks ago and decided to check out EndeavorOS, but would have stuck with that Manjaro install for a while if I hadn’t.

Communist ,
@Communist@lemmy.ml avatar

if you want to know my problems with manjaro, see this discussion: lemmy.ml/comment/9214664

It’s a super problematic distro made by an insanely incompetent team, I promise you have been lucky, i’ve given it to many people and spent years using it, it’s garbage.

tubaruco ,

i think its just people taking the “i use arch btw” meme too seriously and thinking its bad to show or even use it all

0x4E4F OP ,

Look at the sub in which this is posted 😉. That was the joke 😉.

Shareni ,

Its extremely stable

This is why people make fun of arch users

56_ ,
@56_@lemmy.ml avatar

I don’t think this is an “Arch is bad” post, but rather a “Void is good post”. I think the sticker is remove because it’s not relevant to them anymore.

mkuznetsoff ,

Became straight

varnia ,

Tips Fedora.

TxzK ,

m’lady!

bjoern_tantau ,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

Friendship ended with Arch. Now Void is my best friend!

0x4E4F OP ,

Yeah, I don’t think everyone got that from the pic 😂.

psud ,

That space where the arch sticker was

Norgur ,
@Norgur@fedia.io avatar

Ugly, apt-induced breakup I suppose? :P

backhdlp ,
@backhdlp@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

no way anyone would voluntarily use apt after using pacman

Norgur ,
@Norgur@fedia.io avatar

well, for 90% of users it makes literally no difference whatsoever. It's just the command you have to type in so you can get new software.

zarenki ,

As someone who used to use Arch a decade ago: I still use pacman for devkitpro at least, and I do miss how fast its parallel downloads get, but the tool I use to manage packages is far from the most important difference between distros to me, even if you assume not needing AUR.

NostraDavid ,
@NostraDavid@programming.dev avatar

I unironically prefer apt over pacman, simply because my monkeybrain got addicted to running pacman -S (that was how to update, right?) and I dropped in productivity. apt is just “nah fam, there’s nothing new for you” most days, which gives me the quiet time I want and need.

I ran Manjaro BTW. It was nice while it lasted, but Debian is my new friend now.

backhdlp ,
@backhdlp@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

The difference here is more between release types, I think. Arch is rolling, so there are updates you can get every few minutes. Debian is a rock, and rocks aren’t known for moving a lot.

(The command is sudo pacman -Syu btw)

0x4E4F OP ,

Look at the sub 😉. They switched to xbps 😁.

locke ,

!btw

chrishazfun ,

Environmental storytelling

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