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2024: The Year Linux Dethrones Windows on the Desktop – Are You Ready?

  • NTSync coming in Kernel 6.11 for better Wine/Proton game performance and porting.
  • Wine-Wayland last 4/5 parts left to be merged before end of 2024
  • Wayland HDR/Game color protocol will be finished before end of 2024
  • Nvidia 555/560 will be out for a perfect no stutter Nvidia performance
  • KDE/Gnome reaching stability and usability with NO FKN ADS
  • VR being usable
  • More Wine development and more Games being ported
  • Better LibreOffice/Word compatibility
  • Windows 10 coming to EOL
  • Improved Linux simplicity and support
  • Web-native apps (Including Msft Office and Adobe)
  • .Net cross platform (in VSCode or Jetbrains Rider)

What else am I missing?

noodlejetski ,

that AI-generated file really wasn’t necessary

z3rOR0ne , (edited )

There’s more than a few reasons why Linux can’t make the jump to holding a dominant position in the desktop market.

One is simply preinstallation. For companies (and therefore the general public) to adopt the Desktop Linux, they’d need it simply to be installed for them, with a Desktop Environment like Gnome or KDE.

Secondly is updates. As much as Linux users tout the control they have over when and how updates take place, and how much Windows users will always complain about having to update their systems, until system updates on Linux are made automatic (or at least given the option to be made automatic), there cannot be a mainstream Linux Desktop. This means updates that happen very much like Windows, no administrator/sudo password, just happens on reboot regularly.

The reason for this is mainly that the average user would never update unless forced, and then when something inevitably breaks, they are left, as always, frustrated that their computer just didn’t work as expected forever without any upkeep, understanding, or updates.

Lastly is support. And this is multifaceted. By support I mean software support by companies like Adobe. I also mean a much farther reaching swath of random devices that literally plug and play like on Windows.

As an aside, I’ll also say that since there is a move towards Wayland, there also needs to be a No Configuration Necessary way of running Nvidia on Wayland. This is less a Linux issue, and more a Nvidia one, but until pretty much any and all hardware works on Linux the way it just works on Windows, this sadly affects Linux Desktop adoption as more and more of the Linux Desktop ecosystem moves towards forcing Wayland adoption.

Finally I’ll say that the Microsoft corporation at large obviously relies mainly on Corporate Adoption of its products and services, and that the Windows Desktop is simply one part of that greater whole. Their approach to competing with Apple and their walled garden ecosystem has been to slowly but surely create their own, its just so much larger you forget there are walls. They have done this by absorbing more and more of the tech ecosystem either by acquisition, invention, or otherwise. Examples ot this include Bing and All Search Engines that Use it, the pushing of TypeScript into JavaScript Development, the predominance and proliferation of VSStudio/VSCode in modern software development, their heavy involvement with OpenAI and aggressive pushing of AI products/services, their acquisition of Github and subsequent further expansion of influence over software development and distribution, and much much more.

Despite the privacy invasion, enshittefication of the user experience, and their various other ways they have mistreated their users specifically via the direction they’ve taken Windows, Microsoft has established itself as THE Desktop, as THE Workstation, and as THE company that comes to mind when the average person mentions “computer”, and the majority of people associate computer related productivity and play with Windows.

For all the advances made to Desktop Linux, especially in recent years, it is unlikely that Linux Desktop adoption will ever proliferate to the kinds of mainstream adoption that its accolades desire. Until Linux (or at least a Linux distribution) can demonstrate what I’ve mentioned above (preinstallation, automatic/automated updates, and wide spread software/hardware support from various 3rd party vendors) along with demonstrating a work flow/user experience that is somehow both familiar to the user and also better than the experience on Windows, then the day of the Linux Desktop will never come.

This aforementioned demonstration, btw, would have to become obscenely apparent to the average every day computer user who just wants to get their work done, play a Video Game, and watch Netflix, all without having to ever even know what a terminal emulator is.

I love Linux, and I think the Linux Desktop is not only a superior user experience, but is just better in general than Windows. But the average user I’ve encountered generally hates their Computer if it doesn’t work as expected 110% of the time. Linux, and honestly computers, will never be able to do that, but the closer the Desktop (and user facing GUIs more broadly) get to creating that illusion of “it all just works all the time”, the more adoption you’ll see.

lung ,
@lung@lemmy.world avatar

nice doctorate thesis bro

ricdeh ,
@ricdeh@lemmy.world avatar

I think we should be thankful for having users contribute long-form thought-out content like this, instead of ridiculing them.

aStonedSanta ,

Agreed. I don’t care enough to read it all. But to anyone who does. Nice.

lung ,
@lung@lemmy.world avatar

nice tweet of support sis

FreudianCafe ,

This aforementioned demonstration, btw, would have to become obscenely apparent to the average every day computer user who just wants to get their work done, play a Video Game, and watch Netflix, all without having to ever even know what a terminal emulator is.

That sums it all up. The average user wants a PC that just works. Terminal is a big no for the average user, and while we dont get gui ways of doing everything an average user does, it will be a big barrier. Even calamares needs to be waaaaay simpler (like a “i have no idea what im doing, configure it all for me” option).

0x0 , (edited )

the pushing of TypeScript into JavaScript Development,

TIL that Typescript was developed by MS. It’s “free and open-source” though, i’d say the hability for them to cripple it are minimal?

GitHub was a blow though and it’s why i recommend CodeBerg at every chance i get. They’re on mastodon: @Codeberg@social.anoxinon.de

I’d say Ubuntu is probably the distro closer to being the “desktop linux”, Canonical’s been trying to be like MS for years.

z3rOR0ne ,

Yeah, I generally agree with all sentiments. TS is handy at times, but working with poorly written .d.ts types from 3rd party libs is Hell.

The MS acquisition of Github is sad imho. Using alternatives is nice. I’ll eventually get around to self hosting a Gitea or cgit instance.

Ubuntu, Mint, and PopOS are probably the closest to a mainstream Linux Desktop from what I’ve seen, and perhaps one day one of those really will take the mantle and push the Linux Desktop forward into the mainstream, but I just don’t see it. I do hope I’m wrong though.

Lojcs ,

Pretty sure Ubuntu does hands off updates. And neither arch or Ubuntu required me to do any configuration to get Nvidia graphics working aside from the driver selection in the installer

z3rOR0ne ,

On X11, Nvidia is pretty close to plug n’play (unless you install multiple kernels, but even then it isn’t so bad). Wayland has been a stuttery mess for Nvidia for a while now and there’s a long standing issue up that hopefully will be resolved in 550 release.

That said, linux desktop environment developers will likely have to adjust a large amount of environment variables (more than they probably have already) that thus far have had to be set by the User by hand. One has only to look at the Hyprland docs on setting up Nvidia to see the extent to which the bulk of the configuration is set on the User as it stands right now.

Lojcs ,

I’m on Wayland

azvasKvklenko , (edited )

no automatic updates

Well it’s really not entirely true unless you’re on a rolling release (which most people should if they can do basic system administration themselves). Unattended updates were a thing in traditional Linux distros with frozen release cycles since forever. On any Ubuntu-based system it’s a matter of switching a toggle, and I think it could’ve been Mint that enabled that by default (I’m not sure) at least for security updates, because users never updated their systems. They can still be done much quicker and more transparently than Windows does that, without ever forcing users to reboot in any given time.

The problem is also that once in like 5 years you absolutely have to upgrade system to a newer version to keep it updates in such scenario. Popping up a dialog with info that your system goes EOL and you’ll loose security updates and one click upgrade button should be enough.

z3rOR0ne ,

Yeah, Fedora has the closest I’ve seen to this, as they do a rolling release distribution cycle, but with a major update every year. It’s still too hands on for the average Windows user from what I’ve seen.

That said, in the particular case of the Fedora upgrade, I’ll admit I get lazy in the other direction. If I can accomplish a task from the terminal, 99.9% of the time, I’ll do it simply because it’s exponentially faster.

the_crotch ,

it is unlikely that Linux Desktop adoption will ever proliferate to the kinds of mainstream adoption that its accolades desire.

And if it does, the acolytes will hate it and start pushing for BSD adoption, because there’s a huge streak of hipsterism in the Linux community

z3rOR0ne ,

Ah BSD, the OS that probably doesn’t have an NSA backdoor in it because it’s just not worth their time, lol.

phrogpilot73 ,
@phrogpilot73@lemmy.world avatar

Pop has automatic updates now.

MudMan ,

Here's the hilarious reality:

I installed Fedora Workstation on a laptop yesterday, just to check out how that's going.

I'm probably reverting it to Windows because there is no tool to adjust the scroll speed of the touchpad.

And that's what that takes.

wahming ,

Honestly, I am so tempted to ditch Linux because of minor issues like this. No autoscroll on scroll wheel, no option for mono audio, etc etc. I do not want to set up a million scripts to customise my experience, I want the options to be there by default. If MS wasn’t screwing the pooch I probably would have moved back at some point.

haui_lemmy ,

I highly suggest windows for both of you. If minor issues like this bother you while major issues like data collection and ad pushing dont and you dont want to participate in making linux better by submitting bug reports then linux may just not be for you.

Its very much like owning a house or a ranch. You‘re free of others and can do whatever you like. But you do have to do your own maintenance.

If you want to go back paying rent for a shoebox apartment, thats your choice.

halcyoncmdr ,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

And that’s exactly why it will never be the year of the Linux desktop… you know, the claim of this entire post.

Unless Linux appeals to the lowest common denominator, like Windows, it will never become a major replacement.

haui_lemmy ,

Small apartments will always be the norm. You are right. :)

wahming ,

If minor issues like this bother you while major issues like data collection and ad pushing dont

As I pointed out, I’m using it because MS is screwing the pooch with those issues.

you dont want to participate in making linux better by submitting bug reports

These are known issues, and have been around for more than a decade. They’re not bugs, they’re missing basic features. But sure, go ahead and assume stuff.

Its very much like owning a house or a ranch. You‘re free of others and can do whatever you like. But you do have to do your own maintenance.

If you want to go back paying rent for a shoebox apartment, thats your choice.

It’s probably closer to renting a apartment vs owning a shack (or it was, before said screwing of said pooch). You can upgrade it into a mansion if you want, but that’s not where you start.

haui_lemmy ,

As I pointed out, I’m using it because MS is screwing the pooch with those issues.

Fair enough

These are known issues, and have been around for more than a decade. They’re not bugs, they’re missing basic features.

Then make a fork and or PR. i‘m only around two years and I make the stuff I need.

But sure, go ahead and assume stuff.

As a human does since your small text can never have full information needed to know everything. For the sake of discussing things I have to either ask and widen the scope of the discussion or I assume where it seems appropriate and you correct me if I‘m wrong. Sorry if that is new to you.

It’s probably closer to renting a apartment vs owning a shack (or it was, before said screwing of said pooch). You can upgrade it into a mansion if you want, but that’s not where you start.

If thats your opinion I‘d like to own a „shack“ because in germany, where I live, the houses even need maintenance and repairs if you buy them.

wahming ,

A more classic example of linux users pushing others away, I could not have come up with.

“I have so-and-so issue”

“Fork the OS and fix it yourself!”

Yeah, no. I already spend 8 hours a day programming, I’d like my free time to be spent elsewhere, thanks.

haui_lemmy ,

I‘m a tech myself and I know this discussion from 100 times this has occured.

  1. someone complaining about something openly instead of using the proper channels
  2. someone suggesting they use the proper channels
  3. they denying that its an issue they can help fix but a general failing of the software/vendor (typical proprietary software-user behavior)
  4. person trying to help pointing out that this is not helpful behavior
  5. person complaining getting defensive and falling for a logical fallacy instead of seeing their mistake.

But yeah, good luck mate.

wahming ,
  1. someone complaining about something openly instead of using the proper channels

I refer you back to my original statement. I was not asking how to do something. I was grousing that basic tasks are extremely user-unfriendly to configure. I’ve fixed it on my computer. That’s not the topic under discussion.

  1. someone suggesting they use the proper channels

What proper channels? We’re in a post claiming it’s the YOTLD again, because OP apparently doesn’t realise it’s been claimed every year for the last couple decades. I’m posting about why that’s not gonna happen this year either.

  1. they denying that its an issue they can help fix but a general failing of the software/vendor (typical proprietary software-user behavior)

I could fix it. However, I have no intention of opening a PR and spending what little free time I have contributing to open source (I’ll contribute money, but not my time). Kudos to those who do write and maintain open source, but that’s not for me.

  1. & 5.

I think you can see how we’ve diverged into entirely different directions already.

haui_lemmy ,

I can see your point and appreciate you elaborating.

You do see that you went there, right?

“I have so-and-so issue” “Fork the OS and fix it yourself!”

wahming ,

Because, please don’t make that recommendation to anybody else. Of all the places for somebody to start contributing to open source, linux is probably among the top in complexity. And if it’s a new user, as per the original topic of this post, and they can’t figure out their issue from the million guides online, you’re just ensuring they make a speedy return to windows.

haui_lemmy ,

Sad, we were almost aligning here. Now we will just have to disagree here.

I will make this exact recommendation to everyone in every situation because the end user mentality is making us speedrun our planet to shit. People need to take responsibility for their own stuff instead of letting corporations control them. This obviously means they need to relearn that an error is not a sign of bad code/software but something that can happen. The perfectionism this world is succumbing to is a cancer that will kill us all.

But good luck anyway.

wahming ,

You’re suggesting that every user should learn programming. All 8 billion people. How do you not see the ridiculousness of that suggestion.

haui_lemmy ,

Hahaha. Yeah, exactly. Right after I suggested everyone work at mcdonalds. Whatever it is you’re taking, its either too much or not enough.

melmi ,
@melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

The “make a fork” thing is part of the issue, I think. In general there’s this culture in the open source community that if you want a feature, you should implement it yourself and not expect the maintainers to implement it for you. And that’s good advice to some extent, it’s great to encourage more people to volunteer and it’s great to discourage entitlement.

But on the other hand, this is toxic because not everyone can contribute. Telling non-technical users to “make it yourself” is essentially telling them to fuck off. To use the house metaphor, people don’t usually need to design and renovate their houses on their own, because that’s not their skillset, and it’s unreasonable to expect that anyone who wants a house should become an architect.

Even among technical users, there are reasons they can’t contribute. Not everyone has time to contribute to FOSS, and that’s especially notable for non-programmers who would have to get comfortable with writing code and contributing in the first place.

haui_lemmy ,

I appreciate you elaborating on this. Let me try and explain this:

Imo you’re on point with the house metaphor. People dont have the skills to redesign and repair their house.

Thats why they pay people to do it. They get a carpenter to fix their floor, a painter to fresh up the outside walls, an electrician to fix that damn outlet thats acting up. Some house owners have to forgo vacations because they need repairs done this season. They also spread out repairs and live with a broken thing in between.

And the same works for software. I dont mind fixing something in your software, as long as you pay me. Part of the problem is that companies made people believe that everything can be perfect and free. Its like Odysseus going insane by the song of the mermaids. Its a trap. Real software isnt perfect.

Next point is people cant controbute:

People can always contribute. Not everyone can code but they can press the report button and try to be concise in describing the problem, they can help translating, they can help packaging if they know their way around files and much more. The issue is that its uncomfortable to do something while we are used to getting paid for most things and also are used to get perfect proprietary software.

Again, thanks for answering and have a good one.

ricdeh ,
@ricdeh@lemmy.world avatar

All of those things have nothing to do with GNU/Linux and everything with the desktop environment you chose.

wahming ,

I’m on Mint, which is one of the most-recommended distros to newbs around. Good luck persuading new users that they should change their distro every time they run into an issue like this. However you may choose to word it, these are exactly the issues that will stop widespread adoption.

Also, I’d like to know which distro actually supports autoscroll.

MudMan ,

It doesn't matter.

If a first time user installs any random combination of distro and desktop environment and they can't get it all to work smoothly right away with zero effort they will never use any flavor of Linux ever again.

That's how much of a chance to secure a user you have for a software platform or OS. Less than one. Any amount of troubleshooting during FTUE is a user gone forever. The solution to any amount of friction is "Install Windows" or "return this laptop and go buy a Macbook Air".

None of that is unreasonable. Those are perfectly reasonable expectations and reactions to these issues.

halcyoncmdr ,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

This is exactly the kind of issue that the average person might deal with, or it will be a deal breaker and they’ll never try again. Even if you can customize something via a config file, the average user will never do that. If there is no easy GUI in a normal location (like system settings) for something they want to adjust, it might as well not exist.

Average users either will accept all the inconveniences, or none. If it is more inconvenient than what they are used to right off the bat, they will go back and never try again.

MudMan ,

To be clear, I'm far from the average user. I've installed Linux on my PCs many times over multiple decades. I'm looking at a RedHat installation CD that was printed in a different century right now. I'm way more tech-savvy and platform-agnostic than the average Windows user.

And even I went "wait, GNOME hasn't figured out mousewheels and touchpads in 25 years? Yeah, nope, I'm out".

Desktop Linux is a hobby for hobbyists. If you think troubleshooting that stuff, customizing your setup and distro-hopping for fun are engaging things to do on your PC it's a good time. If in the process of doing that you set it up just like you want it the performance, stability and compatibility aren't terrible. By the time I hit those annoyances I had a mostly working setup. Audio was fine, iGPU was fine, touchscreen was fine, performance and responsiveness were better than Windows, manufacturer software alternatives were installed and mostly working.

But if you just want a computer that works any one of these roadblocks is a dealbreaker. Going online and seeing the related drama (posts complaining that GNOME devs will close issues about this out of personal preference or spite, hacky half-solutions, arguments about whether this is a real issue or how much better/worse other platforms or distros are) the entire ecosystem seems less than serious and definitely not sustainable for any device you need for user-level, reliable use.

wahming , (edited )

Ditto. I set up my first triple boot (win/mac/linux, fun times) system 2 decades ago. I was a teen then with all the time in the world to dive into this stuff. Now? I just want something that works and doesn’t consume a free day whenever I want to customise a new option. If Linux is too user-unfriendly for me, good luck with the average user.

Linux is like democracy. It’s the worst OS except for all the others that exist.

caseyweederman ,

I’ve been a Gnome fanboy for years, after initially disliking the shift between 2 and 3.
I dipped into Plasma when 6.0 came out and I’m mad that I didn’t try sooner.

It’s the exact opposite of your experience, about Gnome not having scroll wheel speed adjustment. “Wait, other DEs had figured this out? For how long??”
There was so much I’d just put up with, thinking that if Gnome hadn’t figured it out, nobody had.

KDE is something I can set up on friends’ computers and walk away, confident that it wouldn’t give them any trouble.

dingdongitsabear ,

that (and many other irritants) is why I switched to plasma. please try it before going back, it’s way better in every regard.

MudMan ,

I may because I'm clearly an outlier and it's a bit of an experiment now, but...

... you realize how just saying that is an absolute dealbreaker for Linux, right?

I mean, if you're a base Windows user trying Linux for the first time, it is arcane gibberish. If you're just trying to get a working computer it's a major hassle. If you're, like me, a grumpy old fart, you're getting flashbacks of sitting in front of a Pentium-133 doing this exact exercise of flipping back and forth across environments and bumping against different frustrations on each and just can't believe this is still the feedback you're getting online this many decades later.

dingdongitsabear , (edited )

absolutely. I have a list as long as my arm of irritants that are 99% just the absence of sane defaults. I’m not saying that’s what’s deterring people from switching over, but it’s not helping either, is it?

every DE, distro, whatevs I install, I try to imagine what this looks like to a non-techie, how would a random grams deal with this… and it’s not looking good.

apple has a vertically integrated tech stack and are free to focus their sinister efforts elsewhere; they don’t have to dick around with 15 different DEs and 27 WMs, 50 teams pulling in 127 different directions, abandoned paths and duplicated efforts galore. just imagine where The Linux Desktop would be at if we had just one DE/WM and all devs would pull in the same direction…

I don’t have the answer. it’s chaos over here and out of that chaos eventually some order emerges. it’s unquestionable that shit’s way better than five years ago, let alone 10 or more… but it’s so slow and wasteful and it pains me that I see no other option.

meanwhile this (hey, try this shit out) is the best we as users can do; I know I regarded KDE/Plasma for the longest time as something clunky and un-serious and whatnot - I couldn’t have been more wrong. things that are outright deal-breakers (like the years-long refusal to implement scroll speed in Gnome) are handled beautifully over there, and then some.

MudMan ,

Yeah, honestly given the time this has been at play I'm surprised nobody has tried to do that type of full control integration besides Google. Given how well ChromeOS and especially Android worked as platforms why hasn't... I don't know, Valve? Adobe? Apple, even? tried to create a major desktop PC take on Linux that does have the type of support and sensible UX you want out of the box?

It's probably too late now that MS is hell-bent into turning Windows into that sort of platform, but there was a period of time there, probably during the Win8 debacle or the early parts of Win10 where you could have come up with a "big boy ChromeOS" take that would have gotten this done. It's nuts that Valve only got as far as doing the basics of SteamOS and then failed to deliver on their promises of wider support before the community basically turned installing that into the same kind of nightmare every other distro is.

wahming ,

Yeah, honestly given the time this has been at play I’m surprised nobody has tried to do that type of full control integration besides Google. Given how well ChromeOS and especially Android worked as platforms why hasn’t… I don’t know, Valve? Adobe? Apple, even? tried to create a major desktop PC take on Linux that does have the type of support and sensible UX you want out of the box?

https://monyet.cc/pictrs/image/39bc34b3-efc8-4007-abeb-14e89ab34986.png

MudMan ,

Well, no, that's not applicable here. I'm suggesting a proprietary, corporate-backed desktop default in the way we have a proprietary, corporate-backed laptop reference in ChromeOS, a corporate-backed mobile reference in Android and a proprietary, corporate-backed handheld default in SteamOS.

It's not about covering everyone's use cases, it's about applying commercial priorities and funding to one specific use case.

I mean, you know the Linux community craves that opportunity, because the amount of hype around SteamOS when that dropped on the Deck was insane, and despite their clear lack of interest in expanding it into a Windows alternative for other product types there's been no pushback in those circles.

wahming ,

proprietary, corporate-backed desktop

But how does that differ from Fedora or Ubuntu, besides popularity?

MudMan ,

That's a fair point. I suppose conceptually that's what those organizations were trying to do. So it's a failure in execution which then probably acts as a deterrent for other corporations considering stepping up to challenge MS on modular desktop PCs, which aren't that big of a market in the first place.

I guess if you were going to do that you'd pair it to rigid hardware instead for that reason and at that point you're Apple and we're talking about MacOS.

Takumidesh ,

This is something people fail to realize, and I think part of it is because Linux people tend to surround themselves with other Linux people.

I have been helping my friend get into Linux, we picked a sensible distro, fedora, with the default gnome spin. He loves the UI, great.

But there is a random problem with his microphone, everything is garbled, I can’t recreate it on my hardware and it’s unclear.

He reads guides and randomly inputs terminal commands, things get borked, he re installs, cycle continues.

He tries a different distro, microphone works, but world of Warcraft is funky with lutris, so no go.

The result is, all of this shit just works on windows, and it just doesn’t on Linux. Progress has been made in compatibility, but, for example, there was a whole day of learning just about x vs Wayland and not actually getting to use the computer. For someone who has never opened a terminal before, something as simple to you and I as adding a package repo is completely gibberish

Yes you can learn all of this, but to quote this friend who has been trying Linux for the past two weeks “I’m just gonna re install windows and go back to living my life after work”

When you have 20 years of understanding windows, you need to be nearly 1 to 1 with that platform to get people to switch.

MudMan , (edited )

It's not about being 1:1. I have used Android, iOS, MacOS and a bunch of other systems. Most of those have been easy to adapt. In fact, like your friend, I prefer the GNOME look because the MacOS-ish UI feels fun and fresh after being on Windows for so long.

It's the ratio of troubleshooting versus usage and the lack of definitive resolution for things.

FWIW, I just went back to Windows, not because I found the terminal commands hard to grasp (I started working with computers in the 80s, I'm not intimidated by a command line), but because they often didn't match what tutorials said, or because something that didn't work didn't generate an error and simply did nothing, or because something just randomly stopped working for no reason and just dangled there, broken, indefinitely.

Say what you will about how haphazardly Windows is architected, but most of the time if something breaks it's a matter of either installing the right thing, uninstalling the right thing, finding the right setting or reinstalling the OS. That sense of rebuilding your bike as you ride on it that Linux still forces upon you is just so friction-heavy, and the failstate of it is so frustrating. There's a reason why a dedicated Android or ChromeOS for your hardware feels just fine but desktop Linux is untenable for 90% of users, and it's not the 1:1 parity with Windows.

caseyweederman ,

Fedora is considering switching to Plasma by default.
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Fedora-Change-KDE-Default-Prop

Many big maintainers are working hard to make the experience better for the average user. Things are getting better.

MudMan ,

As a person that also went "screw it, I'm going back to Windows 95" for the exact same reasons in a previous millenium...

...no they aren't.

This isn't new, this has been the way this works for decades. Sure, there have been improvements, but also plenty of steps backwards. This run at it has been a noticeably worse experience than, say, being told about Ubuntu and being surprised at it having a smooth installer for the first time. Sure, gaming then was a no-go, but with PC hardware being a much narrower path then, it was so much easier to get the hardware itself running.

And yes, it was about to be the year of Linux desktop then, too.

tigerjerusalem ,

Yep. To me it was the lack of a working fingerprint reader.

domi ,
@domi@lemmy.secnd.me avatar

I run Fedora Kinoite on my work laptop and this is what the system settings look like. If GNOME can’t do that, then it indeed seems like a massive flaw.

https://lemmy.secnd.me/pictrs/image/e3b14953-ef7b-4a91-9a0a-a18d8d2fa8f9.png

MudMan ,

It doesn't, and it can't. Also can't do any UI scaling between 100 and 200% out of the box. There are some astounding gaps in it for how long it's been around.

Asudox ,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

GNOME is bad. Abandon GNOME. If you like the UI of Windows, try KDE Plasma 6. It’s much more feature rich than GNOME and very customizable too. And touchpad speed can be adjusted in the System Settings application.

MudMan ,

I mean, it is, but part of the appeal with the stock GNOME was how streamlined and un-Windows-like it was. I tried moving to KDE but, honestly, it does feel a bit worse to use.

Not that it matters, because eventually a bunch of other more fundamental unsupported features made me switch back instead. Couldn't get the Nvidia dGPU to work and messed things up enough in the process that I'd have to start over, which is a dealbreaker. Plus it turns out that the suspend/restore functionality was completely broken and the hardware volume buttons were partially broken.

So yeah, no, I'm back to Windows now.

0xtero ,

What else am I missing?

Large scale manufacturers pre-installing Linux? Readily available multi-language support for home users? Coherent UI regardless of computer and distro underneath. Billions on lobbying money spent on politicians for favorable policy crafting? Billions spent on marketing campaigns to actually sell the idea to the masses who simply don’t care any of your points (or any technical reasons, privacy or anything else that might be top of mind of the current Linux userbase).

I’d say Linux has a good chance of capturing 5-6% of the market in the coming years if lucky (I believe we’re somewhere around 4% at the moment), unless one of the big tech monopolies decides to start throwing money into it (Like Google did with Android)

skullgiver ,
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    DmMacniel ,

    ChromeOS though is a category on its own. Just because there is a Linux kernel in it, doesn’t make it a Linux desktop.

    skullgiver ,
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    deleted_by_author

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    MudMan ,

    You're arguing about naming conventions, though. If you want to refer to Linux as Linux Kernel that's fine, if a bit pedantic, but then you should be very strict about sticking to a separate name for the ecosystem of OSS Linux distros for desktops and laptops.

    I haven't once thought of Android or ChromeOS as Linux, for the same reasons I have never once thought of Linux as Unix or MS-DOS as a PC DOS version. If we're going to conflate Linux with its proprietary alternatives let's just call it something else. Dinux? There you go.

    Dinux has all those problems you outlined in your first post, I agree.

    skullgiver ,
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    MudMan ,

    You used a bunch of words but you aren't saying much new.

    Again, those differences are meaningful. It makes sense to have a different name for it. You can lump it and MacOS and Android as a singular family of OSs, but they're clearly different products with different branding and different functionality.

    You're also ignoring how much all of those "succesful Linux" non-Linux systems are tied to hadware, which is ultimately the issue. The terminal isn't as much of a dealbreaker as the Linux community makes it out to be (and neither is the UX not being identical to Windows, BTW). The problem is the lack of hardware support and the finicky configurations, terminal or no terminal. Steam OS, all the flavors of Android and Chrome OS are all customized to the hardware they ship with and work well with it. In all cases the hardware is locked and it doesn't need much readjusting, and when it does it's often through a live support update system.

    And yes, I have thought of ChromeOS as Linux, don't be patronizing. I am saying it's not the same as the desktop-focused Linux distros that are trying to support modular PC hardware in the way Windows does. Because it isn't.

    DmMacniel ,

    Yeah okay, now tell that to the guys at Statcounter or whoever determines the desktop market shares that they should fold in the chrome OS stat with Linux.

    skullgiver ,
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    MudMan ,

    It's roughly consistent with Steam survey data, and given the current context, Linux Steam users are heavily incentivized to contribute to the survey. The numbers are what they are.

    Plus the guy's argument is that relevant data sources separate ChromeOS out because it's substantially different, which is a fair point, regardless of the accuracy of the data.

    independantiste , (edited )
    @independantiste@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Unless Linux is the default, it will never become significant in the mainstream. It is however thanks to improvements like these that OEMs can consider selling it pre-installed

    Also I would to remind some here that the reason Linux can exist on the desktop today is because it is a very good way for Microsoft to get less antitrust fines. Otherwise the bootloaders would all be locked and there would be one or two devices that are unlocked.

    This is also my main concern about the Qualcomm elite x: everybody is saying “hurray it will support Linux” but the actual cpu support was never really the issue. It’s the boot process and device trees that is problematic and I don’t see this being talked about enough. If it does not adhere to a standard device detection process like with Acpi via Arm System Ready we are cooked for arm laptops.

    possiblylinux127 ,

    I don’t really understand the argument of “people will use what ships.” I don’t think Linux is great at the out of box experience unless you count something more locked down. They great part about Linux is that it gives you a lot of control. These days you don’t need to know all the details of how to use that control but I think Linux will become much more popular in the semi tech savvy type crowd. It is already wildly popular in tech.

    wahming ,

    I don’t really understand the argument of “people will use what ships.”

    Because that’s just how things are. Why do you think Google pays billions yearly to be the default search engine wherever they can?

    independantiste ,
    @independantiste@sh.itjust.works avatar

    For the same reasons people don’t change their engines in their cars unless it’s needed. For the same reason people don’t install custom ROMs anymore. For the same reasons most people buy consoles instead of making their own computers.

    mactan ,

    people can’t handle installing windows, they won’t try anything else en masse either

    possiblylinux127 ,

    They might just stop using computers

    TimeSquirrel ,
    @TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

    Back to the 80s/early 90s where the only people using computers were the ones that actually knew how to use computers? Hell yes, take me back.

    Honytawk ,

    That is indeed more likely than them switching to Linux.

    Us computer nerds don’t understand that because we live our lives surrounded by computers, but there are plenty of households that don’t even have a computer, let alone one they want to switch to a niche OS.

    Takumidesh ,

    Yes smartphones and tablets have replaced desktops for most general users.

    0x0 ,

    They can’t handle the Linux!

    vzq ,

    THE YEAR OF LINUX IN THE DESKTOP!

    It’s like Lucy and the football.

    thingsiplay ,

    Who is Lucy?

    Laser ,

    peanuts.fandom.com/wiki/Football_gag

    Endorkend ,
    @Endorkend@kbin.social avatar

    Not even one of those points will accelerate Linux adoption to being with a decade of the snowballing level at which point it could Dethrone Windows.

    You been drinking some absinthe or smoking the ganja-weed?

    Or just straight up snorting Flakka

    dephyre ,
    @dephyre@lemmy.world avatar
    • Nvidia 555/560 will be out for a perfect no stutter Nvidia performance

    God I really hope that’ll be true.

    Brickardo ,

    For me, it’s the Windows AMD application for using FSR and other stuff of my graphics card. I’m not willing to give up to 20 FPS on a lower end card.

    onlinepersona ,

    Good meme, my friend 🤣

    Anti Commercial-AI license

    possiblylinux127 ,

    I used your comment to trail an AI

    Sue me

    Linus_Torvalds ,
    • Linux in name
    • Disrespectful towards copyleft licenses

    Imposter

    possiblylinux127 ,

    I noticed a few users starting to do this and it annoys me to no end. You don’t need to put a link in every comment

    Not to mention anything posted on the internet is effectively public domain

    Linus_Torvalds ,

    I noticed a few users starting to do this and it annoys me to no end. You don’t need to put a link in every comment

    That’s fair. I feel like that would be a more valid criticism.

    Not to mention anything posted on the internet is effectively public domain Well, no.

    Gormadt ,
    @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Dethrone? Probably not.

    Start taking up a noticeable share of the demographic of systems? Probably

    Before this year is out I’m switching my systems to Linux and before Windows 10 EoL I’m having to switch some relatives to Linux because their systems can’t handle Windows 11 and I’m not going to buy them new systems.

    DmMacniel ,

    Full of optimism. But why those points that relate not in the slightest to the layman? Also sources for half of your points?

    Suoko ,
    @Suoko@feddit.it avatar

    Office and Adobe Web native apps? What sources do you have?

    Gormadt ,
    @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Adobe Web Apps

    Office 365

    But there’s also the Google Office Suite as another online office suite in addition to Office 365

    tigerjerusalem , (edited )

    You know that’s not what “native” means, right? Nevermind, me moron can not read.

    0x0 ,

    Web native.

    tigerjerusalem ,

    I missed that, my bad.

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