There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

hoshikarakitaridia , (edited )

Appearently brave is the most privacy focused browser. At least according to this paper from 3y ago.

www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/…/browser_privacy.pdf

Edit: guys I know that Brave is not the best browser and I wouldn’t recommend it, but I haven’t seen studies or in depth articles about technical details of privacy concerns.

And I’m not being sarcastic, I wanna see them so I can make a more informed opinion.

ericisshort ,

Not sure if you’re making a joke or if you’re just unaware about the recent news, but it’s amusing either way.

BastingChemina ,

So chromium. Brave is based on chromium.

JackbyDev ,

No. There are tracking protection extensions in Brave that aren’t in base Chromium.

I don’t support Brave or Chromium but we need to be accurate about praises and criticisms of them.

cley_faye ,

I’ll keep avoiding firefox as long as they keep pushing weird decision with each update, the latest one being forcing “pocket recommendation” on the new tab page, even if the built-in (that is, you can’t remove it) pocket extension is disabled. Sure, I can go look for the new advanced parameter to disable every time, but why pull this shit in the first place.

lauha ,

What are those? I have never seen pocket recommendation.

dudewitbow ,

Cant you say that about chrome pushing weird decisions like manifest v3.

cley_faye ,

You can, but there’s a big difference : the average user (=the vast majority of people) will not see the difference. In some tech circles, or if you’re actively looking for it, you’ll know that it happens, and what it might (or might not) do, but 90% of people will not see a change. User interface remain the same, features remains the same, and extensions that could adapt will already have done so.

Firefox choices, for better or for worse, are very visible. The pocket extension was bundled in it, making it so that everyone have it show up one day. It being named after a (formerly) third-party service is not a good look. Then the new-tab page suggestions, which I can only see as an intrusive way to push content onto me (something I actively try to avoid, the samy way many “social network” keep pushing what their algorithms think is good for you). Add to that some decisions about actively ignoring user settings (and page content) about PDF handling, subsequently breaking tons of SPA because “they know better” (there was a long discussion, and the change was half-reverted once big enough sites showed issues).

The list could go on, ranging from “interesting” UI choices to bundling more and more advertisement for their own service, only to backpedal later with “oh, we didn’t think it would annoy people to do the exact thing you’re running from other browsers for”.

Chrome changes might be insidious, but they have limited impact to the actual users. Mozilla keeps changing Firefox in very glaring ways and not always with a sound reasons, user-wise. One could argue that these changes are all minor, but they do act as a deterrent for people that really can’t handle changes (remember, for most people changing the icon on a button is enough to make a feature “disappear” for them).

dudewitbow ,

I’d argue crippling what ublock origin is caple of doing is very crippling to the end user experience. Accepting a cippled ublock is similar to accepting the change when adblock plus white listed some ads.

cley_faye ,

Again, factor in the number of people knowingly using ublock, and actively looking into what changed vs. what still works fine for now. Manifest v3 have no reach beyond techies, and as such is “accepted” by default. Remember that most people are totally fine with these changes because the larger picture is not shown to them.

dangblingus ,

It doesn’t have to be Chromium, but asserting that Firefox is the only browser that respects your privacy is just untrue. Edit: I use FF and Brave for different browsing, as some websites just don’t like FF.

0Xero0 OP ,
@0Xero0@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve been using Firefox full-time since I switched to it 3 years ago and I haven’t seen a single website that doesn’t work with Firefox

shadowsrayn ,

I’ve found a couple, and the issue seems to stem from some type of cert from goDaddy specifically.

0Xero0 OP ,
@0Xero0@lemmy.world avatar

what are you talking about, I went to that site, clicked on everything, and nothing doesn’t load, everything works fine

shadowsrayn ,

I don’t specifically mean the goDaddy site, I mean some sites that have gotten there certs from goDaddy won’t work. It will give an ssl error. I believe it is their wildcard cert specifically.

Hazdaz ,

What is the aversion to FF? It is memory hungry, but not that much different than Chrome.

lauha ,

To my knowledge the Chrome is the worse memory hog

Hazdaz ,

Worse than Chrome? By how much? I use both browsers on multiple devices on multiple OSes and neither of them are even remotely lightweight.

SaveComengs ,

chrome uses less base ram but more ram per tab i think

Hazdaz ,

I think it’s basically a wash. Anyone that says that one is particularly better or worse than the other is not being honest.

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

Chrome? Sure.

Vivaldi uses about half the RAM of FF when I have equivalent tabs open and running/idling.

Of course I have to have an ad blocker installed on FF whereas Vivaldi just does it natively, so that might be causing the difference in memory.

Here come all the anti chromium bois with "tHeReS nO wAy vivALdi bLoCkS aDs aS gOoD as u BlOcK oRiGin!‘’

To that I say… Have you ever fucking tried it? Lol I’ve tried both side by side, don’t argue unless you’ve actually done so as well. V’s ad blocking didn’t break when Manifest V3 dropped and until it stops being as good or better than UBO I’m just gonna keep using it. When that day happens, well like I said I’ve already got FF up and running anyways.

purahna ,
@purahna@lemmygrad.ml avatar

but Vivaldi is just chrome in a coat of paint??

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

Is every Chromium browser just Chrome in a coat of paint to you?

glad_cat ,

For daily usage, and as long as you use uBlock Origin, Firefox has been perfect for me for the past 10 years. I don’t understand those who complain about it.

orphiebaby ,
@orphiebaby@lemmy.world avatar

A lot of fanboys are just gonna irrationally hate competitors. Star Wars vs. Star Trek and all that.

veganpizza69 ,
@veganpizza69@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ae6f6c75-a1e4-41c6-a133-7de93e7ee302.png

All of them are memory hungry, the point is how dynamic they are in their “hunger” and “excretion”.

Hazdaz ,

Does the 34 and 20 represent the number of tabs? If so, this is not a fair comparison, what with FF having 50% more open. But even if that number doesn’t represent tabs, I am sure there can be websites that would put them much closer in performance.

Right now I have Chrome on my work machine. It has a 14 (again, not sure if those are active tabs or not) and it is eating 1.17 GB on my work machine. On my home FF (24) is eating 1.60 GB of RAM. FF is clearly using more RAM in each case, but it isn’t slowing my desktop down any more than Chrome is on my work machine. I’d like for it to improve, but rather use something other than Google’s tools on every single machine I use, I guess.

veganpizza69 ,
@veganpizza69@lemmy.world avatar

Does the 34 and 20 represent the number of tabs?

Yes, more or less. I think some other extensions can take up processes too.

I actually have enough RAM and I’m glad that the RAM is being used to load all the stuff instead of the pagefile. It’s my fault that I’m not closing stuff, not the browser’s for not guessing what I’m going to re-load.

If you ask people, I think they’ll just say that their main browser is like that. And that’ll apply to all of them, so it’s a user problem.

I remember these talks from a very long time ago. Very long time, when Opera had its own engine and before. I think the gaps have shrunk a lot, especially now that Internet Exploder is gone.

0Xero0 OP , (edited )
@0Xero0@lemmy.world avatar

I have 15 extensions running on my 8GB work laptop and there is little to no difference from my 16GB PC battle station at home. And I have like 4 more apps run alongside 10 tabs of FF at work, way more than what I would ever open at home

JackbyDev ,

Privacy is like the least important reason I use Firefox. With Microsoft Edge and Opera being based on Chromium now there are just so many of them. With Chromium essentially becoming the de facto standard because everyone uses it that means Google can ignore web standards and just do whatever they want.

_donnadie_ ,
@_donnadie_@feddit.cl avatar

It means Google can set the web standards, which is worse.

Willer ,

Competitors dont have to inherit those tho just because they are based on chromium.

_donnadie_ ,
@_donnadie_@feddit.cl avatar

It’s easier to inherit because it’s less dev time spent on a part of the browser that has less evident results for the consumer. I bet they’d rather spend money on the UX provided by UI changes rather than reworking the JavaScript engine, or anything related HTML or CSS rendering.

HughJanus ,

There’s no reason a Chromium fork can’t conform to other web standards.

_donnadie_ ,
@_donnadie_@feddit.cl avatar

Are they doing so right now?

HughJanus ,

Who is “they”?

_donnadie_ ,
@_donnadie_@feddit.cl avatar

Come on. You’re being pedantic.

HughJanus ,

…I’m not being pedantic at all. There are literally hundreds of them, each with their own programming.

Grandwolf319 ,

What are the important reasons?

Aldrond ,

That it allows Google to destroy the open internet by changing the standards until non-Chromium browsers can’t engage with the web.

Willer ,

That it allows Google to destroy the open internet by changing the standards until non-Chromium browsers can’t engage with the web.

Im glad the websites have a saying in this. If google also owns these all then we are TRULY fucked.

Aldrond ,

Unfortunately, no, they don’t. As Chromium gets more and more wide spread, Google is gaining the power to change the browser standards. Websites will have to comply. If your website suddenly “Breaks” because Google won’t allow Chromium load any pages without tracking tags, users will complain to you and not google.

Willer ,

Yeah tech illiteracy is a thing thats true. Once they realize that its their browser that breaks their shit they will just pick a different one. Thats what i mean with google owning all the websites.

Aldrond ,

I don’t think they will. I think corporations - Who make decisions the same way soulless psychopaths would - will bend.

Using Chromium supports the destruction of the open internet.

Willer ,

unpopular opinion: chromium is a genuinely good thing for everyone involved. Just because chrome gets all the bitches and can dictate stuff doesnt mean chromium will break the competitions will to have their own programmers make their own fork.

Aldrond ,

It can and will because Chromium only exists as a weapon for google to use to improve their level of control.

JackbyDev ,

Everything else I said, sorry if that wasn’t clear!

Essentially there are organizations like W3C and IEEE that define standards for how the internet works and how websites behave. All browsers follow these so everything works properly. Let’s say you have some idea you want to add to your browser you develop. You do it and tell everyone about it. You don’t have many users. Maybe a few sites do it but it isn’t really a problem that it doesn’t work on other browsers because so few people do it.

Chromium has a massive market share because so many browsers use it as their base. Even Opera and Microsoft Edge which historically have been alternatives to Google Chrome now use Chromium as their base. The danger is that Chromium has such a large user base that they are essentially what the standard is.

As a quick aside, Chromium is the name for the open source base of Google Chrome. Chrome itself is technically not open source. This jus thust in case you or other readers haven’t seen that word.

Imagine a world where everyone uses Chromium. Why would you (if you were in charge of Chromium) need to listen to what standards organizations say about how the web should work? You’re literally in charge of every browser! You can just add some new features or take some out and every website would have to comply because you (in this hypothetical) truly do control every single web browser on the planet. Their websites would not work otherwise.

Sure, out of the goodness of your heart you might behave and be a good steward but there will always be reasons for you to act against the standards that you don’t view as “bad” that other people might think are bad. I’m not saying all standards organizations are perfect and good or anything like that, but I believe I trust them more than Google.

Even if Google never does anything “bad” (naive thinking lol) avoiding the situation where they have that kind of power is a good thing.

To me that’s the most important reason to use a non-Chromium based browser. To avoid Chromium becoming the one true browser.

And just for some context, Google has done bad things before with regards to web standards and then having the de facto standard with Chrome. The recent changes to the extension API to neuter ad blocking being a prime example. And we don’t even have to speculate and sound like nutjobs. They’re a public company. They’ve said before that ad-blocking is one of the biggest threats to their ad revenue. Not that it feels tin foil hatty to suggest even if they hadn’t said it, but they actually have said it in reports.

jarfil ,

organizations like W3C and IEEE that define standards for how the internet works and how websites behave

Too bad those organizations kept dragging their feet, writing standards by committee and making them unimplementable, pushing stuff like XHTML that nobody in their sane mind wanted… until the WHATWG called quits on them and focused on a working living standard: a reference free open source browser that anyone could just copy+paste to meet the standard.

Nowadays we call that “Chromium”.

JackbyDev ,

Why do you believe Google would not be able to ignore the WHATWG the same way they could ignore other standards organizations if they controlled the entire browser market?

jarfil ,

Well, for starters the WHATWG listens to Google, not the other way around. And yeah, they do “control” the entire “browser market”, or more precisely, the part they care about: how to show ads.

JackbyDev ,

Then you’re just agreeing but saying it’s already happened.

jarfil ,

That’s one way of seeing it.

I don’t agree with the W3C or IEEE defining the standards anymore, or with Chromium becoming a “de facto” standard; the whole point of creating the WHATWG was to explicitly ditch the W3C, make Chromium into the basis for a living standard… and everyone clapped (except for some die hards who didn’t get the memo).

JackbyDev ,

Yeah, I see, I was just trying to list some examples of such standardization bodies I’m talking about. Don’t view it as some implicit approval over others I didn’t mention.

Rakn ,

No actually we don’t. Chromium isn’t a reference implementation. And while XHTML was handled poorly the idea behind it was actually very interesting. Didn’t pan out and was buried years ago. So what.

jarfil ,

Chromium isn’t a reference implementation

Could fool me, since it implements all WHATWG standards… or is it the other way around?

XHTML didn’t just “not pan out”; the W3C kept beating its dead horse carcass, like it did with many others. The W3C didn’t pan out and was handled poorly, even though the idea behind it was actually very interesting.

nudnyekscentryk ,
@nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info avatar

I switch back and forth between Chrome and Firefox but always end up sticking with Chrome for longer:

  • screensharing via Firefox freezes the entire computer
  • FF sync is too slow between devices
  • FF does not allow VOD streaming above 720p (except YT obviously; Chrome works up to 4k!)
  • both are memory hogs but at least you get responsiveness in Chrome
  • FF on Android does not support tablet layout
  • FF on Android keeps refreshing pages when changing tabs
  • FF password manager on Android does not work when needed outside the browser in 99% of cases

I wish I could switch to Firefox

0Xero0 OP ,
@0Xero0@lemmy.world avatar

I never use a password manager and a tablet so I can’t comment on those, but for everything else, what kind of devices do you have to run into those problems? Even my shitty laptop from 2016 that is on live support can run Firefox without issues. Are yours from the last century or something?

And “FF on Android keeps refreshing pages when changing tabs”? Dude, that’s called resource management, even Brave and Chrome do that if you have 20 tabs opened, you expect a damn phone to be as powerful as a normal average freaking PC?

nudnyekscentryk ,
@nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info avatar

Even my shitty laptop from 2016 that is on live support can run Firefox without issues. Are yours from the last century or something?

2018 i7 Zenbook with 24GB of ram. Of course it “runs” Firefox all fine, but it’s just these little things that force me to switch back to Chrome because I encounter small, but key issues which make me unable to continue working in it

And “FF on Android keeps refreshing pages when changing tabs”? Dude, that’s called resource management, even Brave and Chrome do that if you have 20 tabs opened, you expect a damn phone to be as powerful as a normal average freaking PC?

I have 8 gigs of ram on my phone so I wouldn’t expect this to happen with just 2 tabs open especially since Chrome does not do that, at least not every time I switch between tabs, even within seconds.

Don’t get me wrong, I understand how shitty it is for Google to monopolise the internet and web market and I would love to be able to permanently switch to Firefox, but let’s stop acting like Firefox is perfect, because it just isn’t. Sure, neither is Chrome, it has its issues beside privacy as well, but all in all performance- and usability-wise Firefox is just inferior.

0Xero0 OP ,
@0Xero0@lemmy.world avatar

I have 2 laptops with 8GB of ram each, a PC with 16GB and a phone with 6GB and non of them has problems, I even have 10 tabs open on my phone and non of them refreshes unless I manually do it. I haven’t run into a single issue with FF on any of my devices for my 3 years of using it. Just what kinds of bloatware do you have running in the background to run into those problems?

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

Are you now going to fully troubleshoot their entire computer just so they switch back to Firefox?

Reygle ,
@Reygle@lemmy.world avatar

Perhaps I’m missing something but I’ve been a Firefox user for years- at work and home. I have yet to find a website that misbehaves or under-performs. Mayyybe a few sites here and there a fractions of a second slower or have slightly less acceleration or something that I’m just not noticing?

Without Firefox and its ??forks?? like LibreWolf, the internet would be a total Chromium monopoly at this point, wouldn’t it? That would be bad…

0Xero0 OP ,
@0Xero0@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve been daily driving Firefox since 3 years ago, the only time it doesn’t load a site properly is when I lost internet connection mid-loading. Some people keep saying some sites don’t work with FF and yet none of them was able to give a single example.

banazir ,
@banazir@lemmy.ml avatar

I actually had to install ungoogled-chromium to change my email on PayPal. No other browser would work, it was weird. That’s the only instance I can remember where I’ve had to try Chrome. Otherwise I FireFox has worked fine. Wonder what happened there.

candyman337 ,
@candyman337@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve used ha no issues with paypal on Firefox, odd

CADmonkey ,

The Oklahoma Natural Gas website sometimes won’t let me pay my bill if I’m using Firefox.

TheTimeKnife ,
@TheTimeKnife@lemmy.world avatar

Some websites do poorly on it. However it’s rare and easy enough to just open it in a different browser. I’ve used Firefox for over 15 years and it’s not a serious issue. Usually bad government websites or shitty corporate webapps.

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

Pretty sure Safari runs on Gecko as well, but still, “Chromium monopoly” is such a ridiculous idea.

It’s like saying cars have a “V shaped engine monopoly” or clothes have a “YKK zipper monopoly.” Does it exist? Yeah. Does it affect the actual lineup of available products and their differences? Not really.

ziggurism ,

Gecko? Do you mean Blink?

Gecko is the name of Firefox’s renderer. Blink is the name of chrome’s. WebKit is the name of Safari’s.

It would not be correct to say that Safari uses Chrome’s renderer, but since Chrome started as a fork of WebKit, they should have some similarities.

But there is no genetic relationship whatsoever between Gecko and Safari.

corb3t ,

I’ve had some “Apply to Job” buttons on job sites not display in Firefox but show up fine in Chrome/Safari.

jerrimu ,

Cox cable had a button that wasn’t visible on ff, had to use edge.

Gestrid ,

Pre-2020 Edge or Chromium-based Edge?

jerrimu ,

Chromium edge is my goto when Firefox won’t work, I’ve seen the 4 mb of data ms has of mine, and it isn’t comparable to the 6+ gb Google has.

ShittyBeatlesFCPres ,

I’m a die-hard Firefox user (in part because I’m a web developer and prefer the dev tools). But I have seen a couple of sites that only work with Chromium-based browsers. Both are owned by Microsoft, though, so I assume they’re breaking things on purpose to push Edge or something. There’s no significant features Firefox is missing. (Safari is the problem child for web developers now. They tend to be last to support new CSS/JS features.)

deepinder_brar ,

What about brave ???

Photographer ,

I heard bad things specifically about brave recently, can’t recall the details

ProfezzorDarke ,

They sold copyrighted material to develop AI

Willer ,

Chromium is OSS so it is fine.

Xylight ,
@Xylight@lemmy.xylight.dev avatar

If I wrote some malware and published it to GitHub, would that make it safe?

i_lost_my_bagel ,
@i_lost_my_bagel@seriously.iamincredibly.gay avatar

I just prefer the UI of Firefox

soulifix ,

I have a vendetta against Chromium because of Valve having to cease support for older OSes. They did that because of Chromium being built into the Steam client.

beefcat ,
@beefcat@lemmy.world avatar

Firefox 115 is the last version to support Windows 7, so Valve using Gecko instead of Blink wouldn’t have made a difference here. Maybe it’s time to move on from a 14 year old operating system on the internet with known zero-day exploits that aren’t going to get patched.

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

Firefox is also going to stop supporting Windows 7, are you going to develop a vendetta against it too?

Older OSes are unsupported for a reason.

ieightpi ,

Im really confused by this sentiment. Ive been using Firefox since like 2007 and I was just a teenager who didn’t know any better.

Its been working fine for 16 years now.

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

Damn you stuck with it during it’s trash years, too?

It wasn’t even acceptable until pretty recently, and it’s still missing a lot of QoL features that make me keep Vivaldi around (except on my Linux machines, those just run Fox cause Vivaldi isn’t available.)

los_wochos ,

What are you talking about? Firefox has always been very much acceptable for me. What qol features are you missing?

VinnieFarsheds ,

Nah, for any functions I’ve missed there has been a Firefox addon so far. My fave QOL addon is Tree Style Tab

Then you want to hide the horizontal tabs bad in the top, with an extra CSS file in the Firefox folder. Instructions here

LegionEris ,

Personally, I stopped using Firefox when mobile became my main computing device. When I had shitty phones and mobile browsers were newer, Chrome was much more stable for me than FF. I should try to break the habit and go back to FF now that they are both structurally sound, but by now I have years of stuff saved to and remembered by Chrome. It would be a hassle to switch, and somewhat more control of a portion of my data isn’t worth the trouble to me. I’m still gonna use Instagram for professional networking and personal posting, so I’m gonna be in packaged data anyway.

ieightpi ,

yeah having all your stuff saved in chrome would make it a hassle. sounds like a rainy day project haha

Resistentialism ,

Even better idea. Wait until about 6pm, open maybe 7 beers and drink them over a four hour time frame. At 10pm, start mixing some cocktails (you can do this beforehand and just store them in the fridge), make sure you have plenty, as over the next 2 hours, you’ll need them.

Finally, at 12am, get yourself a nice spirit you enjoy, so maybe a good whisky, a good tequila, a good rum. Anything you like, and start mixing, 50ml alcohol, to about 250ml mixer is what I personally enjoy.

Once you hit 12, just get your things done. Whether it’s moving data over. Or just anything that needs to be done. Unless it involves leaving your house. As that may get messy.

This is what I always do when I know I need to get something done. And it hasn’t let me down yet.

Oh, and don’t forget your favourite music.

WarmSoda ,

Don’t forget to speaker phone your ex at some point! Spice that night up baby

WarmSoda ,

All that stuff you have saved isn’t important. You won’t even miss what you saved.

That’s like not moving into a better home because you don’t want to lose what’s in your junk drawer in the kitchen.

Edit. Three downvotes with no replies? No one cares to explain thier point of view?

JJhonson ,

I perpetually want to document and keep things but learning that browsing history, tabs, bookmarks, and cookies are disposable trash that I know I truly don’t give a fuck about was enlightening. A clean slate is actually great!

BananaMangoShake ,
@BananaMangoShake@lemmy.world avatar

Man, what you said is so true. A few years ago, when I switched from Chrome to Brave (I now use Firefox), one of my worries was losing all the “important” stuff I had saved over the years. As you said, those things weren’t important at all, I don’t even remember what they were.

For those of you who are like that: change now, you won’t regret it and if you really need to save something, just copy/paste those links into a word or any other program.

rarely ,

Might need to use chrome so I can blur my video background on google meet. Firefox not a supported browser for video filters. Ungh.

Firefox is the last good browser.

EmperorHenry ,
@EmperorHenry@lemmy.world avatar

Brave is pretty good too

Melco ,

There is no privacy on chromium, it phones home to Google a lot and those communications are encrypted so you will never really know what data is being sent but assume Google can link everything you do in Chromium to you.

Users who think they are “ungoogling chromium” are fooling themselves.

All the commercial browser reeleases like Mullvad browser, Brave or duckduckgo browsers are just window dressing.

Firefox or its children really are the only option.

anonymouslemmy ,

Mullvad Browser sue Firefox as base not Chromium

dustedhands ,

Specifically speaking it branches off tor browser bundle which itself is modified firefox-esr.

aranym ,

Ungoogled Chromium doesn’t send data to Google servers, if that’s what you are implying it is misinformation.

Also, Chromium is open source - you can very easily know what is being sent. I appreciate privacy awareness, but not baseless fearmongering.

beefcat ,
@beefcat@lemmy.world avatar

I hate Google and Chromium’s dominance on the browser market as much as the next person, but this is straight up false information.

Chromium itself is open source, it is 100% possible to make forks that remove all Google telemetry, and such forks do exist.

ahriboy ,

Mullvad is based on Tor Browser.

theshatterstone54 ,

Correction: Mullvad is based on Firefox, and Tor is also based on Firefox.

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