I still don’t know why the fuck he said it like that
He’s trying to say the postmasterist libruls suck at getting rid of CP because of DEI or some other weird bigoted shit
Why’d he use the word “find”? He could have said any phrase that meant “stumble upon accidentally”
But he said find. Directly implying he actively looks for it. Did it not fucking register in one fucking synapse? Can benzos really fry your brain that bad? If so, I’m going to need to talk to my doctor about getting off the stuff.
Yes, they can. The withdrawals can give you brain damage in a similar way to status epilepticus, I think it’s functionally the same thing happening to your brain, calcium toxicity.
Was kinda just using it to yap with friends. Took “as needed” and am on a low dose. I don’t think I’ll have withdrawals, but I’ll call my psych to confirm.
If he tells me I need to go to Russia for that sketchy coma treatment I’ll just accuse him of being antifa or whatever
I worked in retail only very briefly in the 80s and never had any major issues. I consider myself very lucky for that.
Even before covid, people seemed to be treating retail staff as some kind of lower life form far worse than I remember, but it’s absolutely gone insane since.
Oh please, I tried that “fake it til you make it” horseshit and it was worn away through years of constant shitheads using me for their entertainment, all the while trying my hardest to believe it would come eventually.
The hard facts of life are this: life is not a fairy tale. Not every story has a happy ending. As you read this, there are kids out there catching bullets in Gaza who will never even get to finish puberty, let alone find love. Nothing is guaranteed – you can try as hard as you want at something, and sometimes you simply will not have it for factors entirely outside of your control. Some people will never be able to serve on submarines, because they are too tall. Some people will never be able to be a commercial pilot, because they are colorblind. Likewise, some of us just aren’t destined for love, be it for any myriad constellations of internal and external factors.
In my case, I have mild autism, and I can never mask well enough that someone decent won’t see through my facade. Oh, sure, I’m apparently fun to be around for brief periods at a time, but I guess the novelty of a spastic wears off for them and they quickly make their exit, ghosting me soon enough. But more upsettingly, all the horrible people who stick around to use me for their entertainment, I can never see through theirs before it’s too late.
It’s not fair. But sometimes that’s just how things are.
And now, knowing what I do, I’d not put effort towards something as hard to find and keep as love. At least when I put my efforts towards other pursuits, I can see measurable progress in some way. Trying to find love was like ramming my head against a brick wall and hoping the wall would break before I did. If you want to help someone who’s on that “forever alone” drivel, it’s a bitter pill to swallow, but they’re much better off putting their effort towards things they’re actually making progress in. Your best chance of finding love in such a scenario? Dumb luck. It will either fall out of the great blue sky for you, or it won’t, and that’s just how it is.
Sadly and unfortunately true. Though the reality is that it’s still bitter and acidic eating away at someone who craves connection. Luck, it seems, is really the determinate factor in much of life.
Still, I hope you get lucky and find what you want from life as much as I hope for it myself.
Oh, believe me, I spent long enough being upset about the lack of human connection I have. It was a bitter pill for me to swallow. Now I’m mostly just numb to it – but selling someone on a fairy tale ending “if they just believe in themselves!” that may not happen is just cruel.
You’re right, life isn’t fair, and isn’t ever going to be everything going the way you want.
I would still challenge you about the attitude that everything is completely outside your control. You’ve heard the quote, “the harder I work the luckier I get”?
Yes, our opportunities are constrained by the world around us. If you tell a kid they can become president, that’s almost certainly not true. But by working on yourself, by recognizing your strengths, by focusing on what’s important to you, you can position yourself to take advantage of the opportunities you get.
In the dating world that could look like participating in activities you enjoy that also involve other people (tabletop games, bird watching, skydiving whatever). You might never meet someone at those things, but by increasing the volume of human interaction, you’re improving your odds, while also honing your social skills if the occasion arises.
It doesn’t require trying to be someone you’re not, and will also be counterproductive if you do. In sales sometimes they’ll tell you to “go for the no.” If someone isn’t going to buy you want to find that out quickly so you can spend your time on someone who will. In a relationship, if someone is going to reject who you are, you want to find that out quickly, not pretend to be some other person.
I never said everything is outside your control, don’t put words in my mouth. There are some things you can change, and some things you can’t. And after spending long enough trying different things and taking stock of what I’ve tried in the dating game, and not a single human being has ever had any genuine interest in me, as I approach my 30s – I have come to this conclusion not through flip “woe is me” bullshit over a night of binge drinking, this is years of depression and deep thought on it. I accept the reality that is presented to me, and the reality is that whatever drives others away is simply not something I can change, and my best going theory is I’m just an annoying fucking spastic who can’t see through bullshit. That’s not to say I know that for certain, just that I’ve tried changing up everything that I can (and am willing to) change to attract another person – from small things to large – and it’s never helped, and I’ve tried for long enough.
Some of us just aren’t meant to have certain things in life.
Sorry, that’s not a nice thing to say, but in your other comment you say something completely differen “it is what it is”. That is a much better approach and also your own words as well. I think that one is actually “the key to happines”. You might not have been able to find a compatible partner now, but you’re not even 30. It would’ve been nice to have someone by now, but getting older does not mean that you’ve wasted your chances to find love. That’s the vibe I get from you. But it is not true. There are tons of stories of people finding love later in life. Even in elder care homes.
It is what it is, that is true. Don’t let bad luck get you down, but also don’t close yourself off for future possibilities. Be your own person and just live your life in the now and try to focus more on the good parts. Other good things might come later, or not, it is what it is.
Ah, yes, “your attitude now is bad so clearly your attitude was always bad and that’s why you’re alone”. Naw, I used to have a better attitude, as I said in my original comment, and having a good attitude didn’t help one bit (which was the point of my original comment). And trying to pretend it does, doesn’t help anyone – I could have the sunniest disposition in the world, but that doesn’t change shit about the world around me – being an optimist doesn’t help you if, say, the house is on fire. And the world around me wants very little to do with me romantically, and pretty much always has. I can either accept that, or I can live in denial of it, but neither changes it.
Right. You worked for something maybe seriously for a decade, it didn’t work out, but you might live for another 60 years. Hey if you want to sacrifice the future based on the past that’s okay, but the reality is we have no idea what’s going to happen. In many countries, there are expressions that essentially state that men don’t even start looking attractive until they hit their 30s. And I know dozens of men who got married in their thirties or forties or fifties. Of course you don’t have to get married, that’s cool too, but let’s not pretend that it’s totally impossible just because it didn’t work out for you so far.
For me that post wasn’t about “faking it”, but truly finding something in yourself you can take confidence in. So I guess, as you said, putting effort towards other things seems like it could work, and also having interests and projects is attractive! At least to me it is.
And i get being bitter and defensive if you have been hurt, but that is only going to push others away. I don’t write this to give advice so apologies if it sounds like that. What you wrote just reminded me of a guy I know with mild autism who has a similar view on life and relationships. And he is cool, fun, knows a lot about interesting topics, and yeah is also oblivious about social clues but that is not a problem. What is a problem is when he is bitter, defensive and blames everything on others while not seeing what he does wrong (probably related with his condition but still). When he is like that, he is a chore to be around, and when people try to tell him he only feels attacked so he won’t listen. As I said, no advice, just wanted to share, maybe it’s not that similar to your case. Best of luck to you
Fake it till you make it is a mindset and approach to overcome self doubt and to be able to improve self confidence. It not a guarantee of success nor does it include ignoring obstacles in your way.
I don’t mean to give you unrequested advice so apologies if I come across as dismissive of your experience. I just feel like I can add some points that people in your situation might benefit from.
And that is to not chase love in itself. I found that as I got older I also accepted that I would grow old without a romantic relationship. Though I did invest time in my friendship relationships, and that did work.
While being somewhat saddened by it, I accepted that the chances of me finding love through dating apps was low, in particular because I don’t want to have kids, which obviously is a deal-breaker for many people. So my approach there was to just try to enjoy the moment without expectations and without judgement. If I got a match I’d try to have a fun conversation, if it was fun I’d try to set up a date, and if that was fun I’d keep it going. Just going for having an enjoyable time at that moment without expectations. It made even the dates that weren’t going anywhere long term enjoyable experiences, with the occasional opportunity for physical intimacy with someone who was on the same page about expectations. I could have lived like that but just got plain lucky this year I think. For me it still feels amazing to have happened so I’m not going to type lies and say it will happen for everyone. But I went into this relationship with no expectations either so regardless of what happens in the future I will treasure what is happening now, as I’m a relationship with the most amazing woman who adores aspects of me that would often be things other dates told me made me seem immature and obsessive.
So, you and people that relate to you, I genuinely wish you happiness and good things. In all aspects of life. But please don’t give up on meeting new people if you can, you might make someone else happy just by existing. Or if not you could at least give them a nice date.
I’m on the autism spectrum too. I’m on my second marriage. My current partner knows I’m n the spectrum, and (mostly) accepts it. We’ve been married for eight years. My prior partner and I married before I was tested; they kept expecting me to change.
And now, knowing what I do, I’d not put effort towards something as hard to find and keep as love.
Here’s the secret: NT people also have to put in effort to find and keep love. There are no fairy tales for anyone, and it requires effort from everyone. If you’re not willing to put in that effort, then no, you’re never going to find and keep love. And there aren’t guarantees, because you’re talking about another person, one that has their own internal life, and is making their own choices. When I practice shooting, my improvement in that area is entirely on me; my gun doesn’t have it’s own will. It is an extension of me. When I’m working on connecting to my partner, they still have their own agency. So if I don’t seem to be making progress, that may not be me at all, but due to their choices.
Good for you, I’m glad you have better luck than I do.
You seem to think that because I’m not willing to put in effort anymore, that means I never did. Allow me to correct you. I spent long enough putting in extraordinary amounts of effort for a very long time and merely got shit on in return, but I’m glad it worked out better for you, really I am. But in so many words, I’m the one who gets to decide when I’ve had enough heartbreak, not you.
But in my experience, most people on the spectrum say that they’re putting in effort, but they’re not even putting in the bare minimum. They–by which I mean we–have skewed perceptions, because we lack a certain type of effective empathy. We have a hard time seeing ourselves the way other people might, and assume that people are able to see what we intend, rather than the results.
You can decide that you’re done. You can’t create a false, bullshit narrative, and then expect everyone to accept your “truth” as some kind of universally correct thing. Like, “Likewise, some of us just aren’t destined for love, be it for any myriad constellations of internal and external factors,” because, hey, there’s no such fucking thing as “destiny”. There’s no predetermination like that; having a successful relationship isn’t determined by physical–or even mental–standards that are absolute. Every single potential partner has different standards and needs, so if you can’t meet one person’s needs, you move on. All the shit you talk about is not unique to ND people.
…Because everyone has to change and compromise in any romantic relationship.
[What we’ve got here is failure to communicate. Some men, you just can’t reach. So you get what we had here last week – which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it.}(www.youtube.com/watch?v=452XjnaHr1A)
I know exactly how you feel. At one point while reading I thought “Did I write this and forget about it?” It’s sad that you and I and many others are living in a world where being called “funny” is an insult to us. We don’t want to be funny, we want to be “dependable”, we want to hear “You make me feel safe” or “I’m glad you’re here for me”. We want to be good listers but nobody ever talks to us. “Haha, you’re such a funny guy.” Is all we get.
What people answering you don’t understand is the difference between fighting for love and fighting for the CHANCE for love. This is like the difference between struggling to win at a slot machine and struggling to get in the casino. Then people try to convince you that there’s a system to it. Please, as if we don’t know the rules - shower, groom yourself, be assertive but not pushy, read the room, show interest in their interests but don’t interrogate, complement their efforts, be charming and make them laugh. We can follow all this to the tee but all we ever hear is “Yes, but not you”. And don’t get me started at the cowardism. There’s never constructive criticism, at best there’s a " no" at worst there’s a lie. How many times have I heard “Sorry, I’m not really interested in a relationship right now.” only to find the same person dating somebody 2 weeks later. Must have been a life changing 2 weeks to change your mantra like that.
The problem is that there’s an appropriate time for trying and to be picked. I understand what you’re saying about people I Gaza, but this is a fucked up situation in general and outside the norm. I got raised in a normal household, went to a normal school, had normal hobbies and normal friends yet still, nobody ever saw any romantic value in me. And now I’m old, I don’t have the safe environment of of innocence but I’m also not allowed to make mistakes. I have zero experience yet I’m expected to outcompete everybody. That’s the issue. If I’m interested in someone, that someone will always have options beyond me. What others are basically saying is that you’ll find love only if someone comes along that is so cornered that you’re their only option. I don’t want to be someone’s only choice, I want to be someone’s first choice, but people like us aren’t even second, third or fourth - we are not even on the list. There will be always younger, better more successfully and better looking options. And the older we get the more baggage and expectations people were interested in have.
I feel like a car that hasn’t been sold by the dealer, then new models came along and nobody wants the old one anymore. And the longer it sits in the lot, the more people start to wonder what’s wrong with it and why it hasn’t been sold. It becomes a loop of people seeing your lack of worth and assigning even less worth to you. And then at some point you become a write-off, a statistic - cars not sold, lives not lived.
What people answering you don’t understand is the difference between fighting for love and fighting for the CHANCE for love. This is like the difference between struggling to win at a slot machine and struggling to get in the casino. Then people try to convince you that there’s a system to it. Please, as if we don’t know the rules - shower, groom yourself, be assertive but not pushy, read the room, show interest in their interests but don’t interrogate, complement their efforts, be charming and make them laugh. We can follow all this to the tee but all we ever hear is “Yes, but not you”. And don’t get me started at the cowardism. There’s never constructive criticism, at best there’s a " no" at worst there’s a lie.
this.
I’d not be so resigned if I’d had some genuine interest turn up at some point. But the only person I’ve ever gotten a second date from (and a brief relationship for a few months), later told me he meant and felt nothing of what he said he did, over text, on Christmas morning 2020. Even he couldn’t articulate why, he just didn’t feel anything for me despite everything I’d done up to that point to be up to par for him. Everyone else disappears like a fart in the wind well before a second date.
I know love is not all sunshine and roses, and work and effort is involved, but I suppose not everyone who wants to work can find a job, either, as my recent job hunt has illustrated. Only problem is, Walmart and McDonalds accept everyone, and the consequences for working at either are a lot less than the consequences of dating someone who will “accept anyone”.
I am reminded of the quote by Stephen Gould, “I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.”
likewise, there will be plenty of people who live and die alone who are just as good a partner as anyone else can hope for, but who just don’t get lucky. Me, I’ve had my relationship woes, depression, cancer, losing my job and having my career derailed recently because of cancer, all kinds of fun hints that I am just not lucky and not meant for the things I want out of life. And I guess I just have to learn to be okay with that.
Probably too damaged to be good enough for anyone decent, now, anyways. And definitely too damaged to open up to anyone in any meaningful capacity, in any reasonable span of time – most partners expect you to let them in and lean on them in turn, and I’ve learned by now not to let anyone in.
Your analogy with looking for a job is beautiful, it perfectly captures the feeling. No matter how much you apply yourself, if your resume is shit, and you have no meaningful experience nobody is interested in you. There is no going back, no redos. If you didn’t get opportunities early on, why should anybody give them to you now. There’s always going to be someone younger, better, less desperate and more suitef to do the job. But at least there are times when workers are desperately needed or agencies to help you find at least something. But the are not contingencies for being unlovable.
And it sucks. I try to keep my composure, but I slip more and more. I’ve gone from asking “Who are you as a person?” to “How are you going to hurt me?”. It’s like a self fulfilling proficiency, people don’t like you so you become more unlikable. I’m so bitter I’m probably past being a good partner anyway. It’s a straight up paradox, I need a miracle to happen to ever get into a relationship, but the most rational thing for me to do would be to say “No” if it ever happens.
Violence, sadness, pain, hate all have in common that at a certain point they become so absurd that it loops back around to being borderline comical. But loneliness is a bottomless pit, there’s no desensitization to it. It’s like the opposite of a drug, the first time you don’t even realize you’re alone but the longer the feeling persists the harder it hits. And everything is a constant reminder of your loneliness. Songs that are not about love or heartbreak are few and far between, movies and books are the same. It certainly makes you feel like the bottom of society. Most laws are even made for the sole purpose of being able to maintain a family - a family I will never have. What’s even the point of voting or advocating if the rules aren’t even made with me in mind.
Dating is not a sport or hobby, there is no 2nd or 3rd place. I don’t expect to pick up a tennis racket and be world class, neither does anybody else. But if there are people that are not physically or mentally able to do certain sports, then why aren’t some just as unable to participate in love. People saying “You got to believe in yourself and it’s all going to work out.” is as much of an insult as telling someone in a wheelchair that they are going to be an Olympic runner. No we are not, we are damaged goods beyond repair. I don’t even want to have a relationship anymore, I just want to stop being hurt with constant reminders of a life I never had a chance for.
It doesn’t even come with any freedoms. You still have the same responsibilities, same bills, same problems but you have absolutely no one to have you back.
Cheating is for those that aren’t being honest with themselves. Open relationships are fine for those whom understand and consent, but many people don’t do well in them. I don’t think I could ever do it but it is do to my own faults, not the practice.
Most cheating I think happens because someone hasn’t admitted to themselves that they aren’t happy enough in their relationship, or to cowardly to leave it for many a reason. Stability, whether financial or otherwise make staying in a relationship the “easy” option to many people.
Starting a new chapter of life is often hard. Social circles, work, living situations, vehicles, pets, and every other thing we forget about that has been a staple to us is often intertwined. Families as well. A lot of people stay together out of feeling it is better off than rocking the boat, many feeling like it would be devastating for their partner and like to think it is better for them long term as well. It doesn’t mean it is, or would be.
Relationships are just hard all around, but at some point we have to choose happiness over forcing shit to work.
Being afraid of failure has always been one of my flaws. Relationships are mostly all failures, even many that last till death.
~end random rant, it wasnt disagreeing with your comment by the way, apparently I just started typing
all fair points. there is deff a story behind every thing. i was going more for people need own their behavior. classic story is parents staying together when it was bad for kids.
i guess it could work somehow... but we all heard the stories where it was dragged out too long and hurt more.
There is a lot of stastics and info on this topic that might surprise you. I would encourage you to look into cheating rates by demographics. After that if you want any recommendations for books on subject, let me know.
They were red and round, the leaves were green or were they blue? No, green for sure. You have to remember me, I was wearing the same hat last year! C’mon!
To be fair, the men’s rights movement is absolutely characterized as alt-right by the mainstream media. People tend to assume all sorts of things about you when you bring up any kind of men’s issue. Most people (including other men) have difficulty empathizing with grown men, and thus they subconsciously expect that men’s advocates are motivated by something else, such as misogyny. It’s hard to move past our biological and cultural tendencies and view men as vulnerable and in need of support.
Depends on the approach. In a lot of queer friendly spaces men’s issues are generally accepted as incredibly valid as gay and trans men tend to get pretty hardcore beat down by failing to pass the bar of the expectations of cultural masculinity and on average they require more outside help from services or others because they are less likely to be able to return to their families to escape abusive relationships and face addictional precarity.
But the difference tends to be a general understanding that while women definitely get it and can absolutely sympathize they also aren’t in a particularly great position to change things in a general sense because women also have to regularly fight against social power of systems that depower their autonomy that are fronted by men and they generally have to see to their own needs before being able to do the administrative work on men’s behalf.
It’s emergency airplane crash logic. Put your own supply of air on before you help the person next to you. If your job, legislature, judicial system and potential funding structure is only made up of a minority of women you are asking a lot of people who don’t have institutional power to flex even on their own behalf and a lot of women have deep seated anger regarding that disparity so when someone tries to pile more on their plates the gut reaction is to throw it back. Women might be willing to assist, but they aren’t going to accept doing the lions share of the required admin for another group when they have other priorities. The same goes for queer groups, racial minority groups, religious minorities, disability affected groups and so on. They might have room on their plate to show up to your protest… But usually that requires you to you show a willingness to reciprocate and show up to theirs.
generally have to see to their own needs before being able to do the administrative work on men’s behalf.
Same logic applies to men as well. And I don’t like your perspective of said groups always being enemies of each other. If this perspective was uniformly adopted, queers will never have their rights because they are a minority. While the majority groups only fighting for theirs. IMHO we need to look at all these as human rights and human values. Not gay rights, trans rights, women’s rights or men’s rights. Otherwise we don’t get anywhere.
That’s not quite what I mean. It’s not that they are enemies of each other it is just that reciprocity is a road to success. A lot of the LGBTQIA for instance is solidarity based. Everyone has their main concern that focuses their own needs. Like folks who push for asexual stuff is different than say trans stuff. You wouldn’t go to an allosexual trans person to get your marching orders for organizing for Ace things or vice versa. They have independent agendas and groups who do the main work. Successful adgendas put in the primary effort and give lower effort tasks to do to allies.
Like okay, example. There’s the regular list of regular concerns from men’s advocacy groups. Education accommodations to close gaps for students and resources for domestic abuse shelters for men. Those are two very common issues. On their own however it doesn’t matter how often you say it, I could agree with you those would be good thing but that isn’t enough…
You need someone dedicated to actually create the initiative. Maybe organize a group of psychology professionals to advocate to a school board for changes or set up a non-profit to get shelters going… Governments generally only adopt things once a model has been tested so just getting shit done to prove your model has to usually be grassroots : That’s the stuff that a primary organizer does. It’s tough work. It takes a lot of free time and dedication. There’s admin aspects where you need to talk to professionals, get a dedicated core of like minded people together and point them in a direction, deal with a lot of very impassioned ideas clashing against each other and hours of effort. It’s a frustrating blood, sweat and tears endeavor. Most people have the energy at most to do one of these maybe two during their lifetime. A lot of people can’t manage it even once. Chances are nobody is going to sign on to help you with this generally unless they got enough skin in your game.
Look back at the history of the LGBTQIA and you will find hundreds of fairly small groups working this way for very specific initiatives. The main people of those group’s cores are usually either people of that specific queer minority who are directly effected or family or friends of a minority member who died.
But what a primary group creates is secondary tasks. Maybe they create the charity that does the main work and other people who want to help but don’t have time to volunteer kick money into it. The primary group organizes the protest and post the posters and reach out to allies… and all the allies need to do is show up.
With a lot of men’s advocacy groups there’s this toothless helplessness where they aren’t asking people to join in to do secondary tasks. They just state problems that exist. It kind of comes across to groups that are more used to organizing like they aren’t giving trying to give someone a job they are trying to convince you to start their small business for them from scratch.
I don’t think anybody is expecting women to do administrative work on behalf of men’s rights. It’s more that women tend to react with outright hostility when men advocate for other men.
It’s actually the feminists who frequently argue that men need to be fighting for women’s issues. I haven’t seen the reverse from male advocates, partially because it’s quite obvious that such a request would be summarily denied. Men generally just want:
funding for men’s shelters
sympathy & aid for male victims of domestic violence and sexual assault
solutions for the growing educational achievement gap
a discussion about various legal discrepancies when it comes to conscription, marriage, and parental rights and responsibilities.
None of this requires women to assist or flex their institutional power. But when men are systematically denied access and funding for various forms of governmental aid, it seems like certain women are flexing some of their institutional power to prevent men from having access to the same kind of social safety net that women enjoy.
It’s emergency airplane crash logic. Put your own supply of air on before you help the person next to you.
This is a faulty analogy, because men’s issues are women’s issues and vice versa. It’s impossible for women to actually solve their own problems without also solving men’s problems. How are women ever going to keep their oxygen masks on if they are surrounded by men who are suffocating and trying to rip the mask from their face? In order to help anyone, you need to help everyone.
You miss my point. What mens advocacy groups are missing is that they aren’t doing the primary work required. They just kind of expect that stating the issues are enough.
Like let’s take the mens shelter thing. Cool. I agree… So Where do I donate? Who is doing the admin? What’s the aim, the targets. What is the method? Who’s talking to the accountants and doing the paperwork and signing the papers. Are you seeking a grant? Who’s filing it? Who’s name is on the lease for the property? Who do I contact to volunteer my time?
… Wait you want me to be that guy who creates all that framework? You want me to pay for the lawyers and, wrangle the committee and spend my nights arranging experts and to set up the charity? Okay… Why me exactly? I am a transmasc non-binary person fighting for my union to cover trans healthcare and showing up to city halls to stop book bans and bathroom bills. I totally have like 5 hours free on a Tuesday you can have or maybe $50 out of my pocket to an organized cause but that’s not exactly gunna help you unless someone does the framework to make that useful…and I am sorry but like hell am not about to throw myself on that particular beaurcratic sword. Doing that for a cause that directly effects my security to exist in public is hard enough.
Saying “we should have men’s shelters” is not giving someone a actionable task. People love actionable tasks! They are easy : show up here and protest, go here and donate, go here to run a fundraiser, volunteer here sign this petition etc etc etc… But just plunking "We need mens shelters somewhere is basically low key implying you aren’t personally asking the listener to do anything… Or you are asking them to do everything. Like I can totally agree all these things are worthy endeavors… But you aren’t giving me a framework here for my endorsement to translate into anything helpful. Okay. Shelters got it I agree. Job done, argument won. Victory. Woo.
Doing the primary work is not fun or intuitive or easy. But what it CAN be is managed by a very small team. The initial investment is always in personal time money and extreme frustration and growing the thing takes patience.
Look to the LGBTQIA model and you will find a myriad of different small independent groups generally focused around singular letters of the acronym who have a diehard core and damn near always the people who founded them were the people who experienced the problem directly or the surviving loved ones of people who died. The circle of secondary supporters are usually more varied but the Leaders basically need to be able to devote at least around 100 man hours apeice per year doing pretty intense work that involves a lot of key decision making. If you really are fired up about making this thing real that’s the bit that needs to be done so other people can push it. Or find someone already doing the thing and support them. Amplify their message and organization. Grow them.
Allies are also more likely if you create solidarity. Try partnering with a women’s shelter group to learn their process, reach out to the Gay community to tap their activism networks by explaining how your interests intersect, cross promote. Be prepared to reciprocate. Nobody likes selfish people who take up all the oxygen in the room. People will find time to help people who make reasonable direct asks that respect the time and resources needed to attend to their own admin first.
But in general I don’t see this engagement style from cis straight men’s activism groups. A lot of the time they seem to be fairly unhealthy because they just want to ruminate on how life sucks while practically nobody steps up to the plate to do the critical and nessisary front work. I just hear “women don’t care”, “nobody cares” “this should happen”… But what I NEVER hear “Okay, here’s our plan. Let’s meet.” “do this.” “support this.” “here’s how to effectively ask for this”, “support this court case” “I’m throwing a fundraiser” “let’s build our own shelter”… If you aren’t asking these things of each other then you have zero business demanding it of anyone else.
And if someone comes at me with “well I DO run or support a thing but nobody seems to care…” there’s usually some kind of reason why people aren’t latching. Chances are good if you aren’t crowing your most modest successes as wins and keeping hope and optimism as your center people are going to doubt your ability to deliver on your intentions. You can’t afford to mope, you need to change your approach, experiment and figure out what your winning formula is, replicate it, amplify it CELEBRATE it.
Because if no one actually cares… If you can’t advocate, If that actually is the implicit nature of the world there is no sense in complaining. You are fucked. You might as well go down fighting.
I keep wanting to light a fire under your asses. These things are worth fighting for but so often you don’t realize what you are doing to yourselves. You keep reinforcing your learned helplessness while looking at stuff that people worked damn hard to make real through individual personal effort and sighing over how that isn’t happening for you. That stuff didn’t just pop up out of the ground because someone clapped their hands and believed in fairies. Somebody get boots on the fucking ground already!
If you can’t find someone doing the admin for the thing that’s your ride or die issue then you have to create one and chances are good that person is gunna have to be you. Nobody is generally lining up to take that gig… You can keep trying to convince rando people to try and take on your heaviest burdens but chances are all its going to do is make you angry when they just shoulder their own pack leaving you with nothing but a few kind words of encouragement before moving on down the road. You get a lot more faith in humanity when you hand them an item or two from your pack to carry for you as most people will help you out under that circumstance.
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