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So, on pronouns.

I have a few questions on how to best behave to be as welcoming and inclusive as possible without sounding bad. I hope you guys don’t hate me.

I’m just a straight male. Are my pronouns he/him? Is that how I should tell people? Do you actually tell them as you meet them ? Do I have to wait for a certain social cue ?

How about online. Should I tell people or have it on my personal profile somewhere?

And about respecting other people’s pronouns. How do i figure them out ? Is it a big faux pas if I don’t before I know them ? Is it a faux pas if I refer to someone I just met and I assumed to be male as he/him?

I’ve never seen anyone referring to anyone irl by non conventional pronouns. Is it an actual thing or is it currently being pushed to make the world a more inclusive place?

I’d love some help with all of this.

pixxelkick ,

Your pronouns are the ones you want to be referred to as, its that simple. So yeah, he/him if thats what you want people to use.

As for gender neutral pronouns, I just use them by default for everyone, especially on the internet when you have no idea who you are talking to as it is all anonymous (unless they have specified their pronouns in their bio/profile of course)

But overall you just get in the habit of using “they/them” unless explicitly you know their gender.

Once you get in the habit of it, it becomes more natural and you stop thinking about it.

Thats pretty much all there is to it, its quite simple and people who moan and complain about gender stuff are either:

  1. Lazy, and dont want to put in the 1% of effort it requires to not be shitty
  2. Really just bigoted but cant admit it out loud, so they complain about such things as a dog whistle to other bigots
  3. Are extremely misinformed about what is expected of them. They seriously think the real world is out to get them, and that if they misgender someone they’ll get attacked for it (in reality maybe 1 person coughs uncomfortably and they get informed as an aside awkwardly). Non zero chance these folks also think vaccines cause autism and 5G causes cancer.
systemglitch ,

Or… hear me out… this is insanity being given a voice and should be pushed back against, like so many other unhealthy things.

Yep, that does in fact sum it up

pixxelkick ,

No idea wtf you are talking about, but you sound like someone in section 2 or 3.

But Ill just quote you, yourself, from something you wrote 6 days ago:

People are rather ignorant as a whole. Many of us here probably use our brains for genuine thought, but I find that to be the exception.

Look at the shit people focus on as important and how they mimic what they see and parrot what they hear and it becomes clear how they can’t even get simple sayings right.

While you were referring to people using common phrases entirely wrong, I think it applies to what you have written here.

There is nothing unhealthy about being grammatically correct. There is nothing new about this either. The pronouns They/Them are ancient as hell and have been a part of the English lexicon for centuries. It is not conceptually a remotely novel idea to use gender neutral pronouns in a gender neutral way.

Full stop, its that simple. There is nothing political, social, or whatever about using they/them.

It is purely grammatically correct, and always has been.

Consider this

Completely subtract the whole trans thing away, all recent kerfuffle, and just consider this very simple scenario that is not anything new, and is grammatically an occurrence that would have happened even hundreds of years ago.

Imagine you have discovered in a public place a personal belonging of someone, it is clearly valuable and has initials on it. You dont know the person’s name, and you don’t know who they are. You definitely do not know the person’s gender.

Now, answer me this simple question: Would or would not the following statement aloud, even hundreds of years ago, be grammatically correct English?

“Someone lost their belonging! We should get it back to them, they probably miss it!”

Note how in this case we are still using Gender Neutral Pronouns, because we do not know the person’s gender

Even hundreds of years ago, this would have been absolutely normal to say and grammatically correct. Gender Neutral Pronouns were in use in even extremely old books you can still find and read today.

systemglitch ,

I already think you are off your rockers. Seeing that much text and the bits of glanced at confirmed it.

Write more essays to support clear unnecessary complexity in langauage. But know this: only people drinking the same Kool aid as you will read that much nonsense.

pixxelkick ,

So, you’re entire response effectively boils down to:

“Rather than actually read what someone has written, I am going to choose ignorance and make assumptions about what the text contains so as to avoid the possibility I may have to question my own viewpoint”

Look mate, if you wanna ignore what people say and not even bother to read it, out of fear that you might possibly learn something new, that’s on you.

But later in life, as the world begins to advance past you and every day you feel more and more left behind, remember that these moments were all the sorts of points when people offered you a hand to help you catch back up and keep pace with everyone else, and you slapped that hand away.

I can’t possibly speak as to why. Willful ignorance? Fear of confronting a mistake you perhaps made? Pride? Bigotry? Hate?

Who knows.

But in the end, you probably won’t bother to read any of this either.

Nothing about what I wrote above was “nonsense” or “drinking the Kool aid”

It was a fairly basic grammar lesson, covering a topic you should have learnt about in gradeschool.

The fact something as basic as the topic of how gender neutral pronouns work, something that has existed for centuries in the English Lexicon, has produced such a response from you as to say I am “off my rocker”, is fascinating… and sad.

I don’t really know how to approach the concept of someone being informed that the words “They” “Them” and “Their” have been around for a long long time, caused them to respond with “you are off your rockers”

Mostly just makes me sad to see how deeply your school system has done you a disservice, and failed you. Shame really.

systemglitch ,

Chill dude, seriously.

Sotuanduso ,

Can we not dig up people’s comment history to win arguments? That’s kinda toxic.

pixxelkick ,

If you dont like people using your own words against you, don’t post it on the internet where the entire world can see it.

What, exactly, is toxic about holding someone to their own word?

What is toxic, precisely, about pointing out how a persons own statement mere days ago directly contradicts their current stance now?

If highlighting a persons inconsistencies and self contradictions is toxic, then so I shall be. I have zero issue with calling people out on their bullshit though.

Don’t like it? Stop posting on the public of the internet on a forum where your words will be marked down for the rest of history (or at least, until Lemmy instances all suddenly stop being used, which likely won’t be anytime soon)

Sotuanduso ,

There’s a basic expectation, when you make an argument on a public forum, that it’ll be judged on the content of the argument, not on who posted it. If you want to look through their history to see if they’re a troll, and then just ignore them if they are, there’s nothing wrong with that.

What you did was say “you’re stupid and lazy,” but for no good reason, you used that guy’s own words to say it. That was entirely unnecessary. It didn’t prove any inconsistency, it just proved that, like many people on Lemmy, the guy thinks a lot of people are dumb.

What is non-toxic about using someone’s own words from past threads to insult them when you already have enough of a text wall to make your point?

pixxelkick ,

What you did was say “you’re stupid and lazy,”

Extremely reductive and explains why you viewed it as toxic.

That is not what I said, at all. You have focused on the wrong parts of what I quoted, and ignored the context of my statements surrounding the quote.

If you read what I wrote, you should see that was not what I said at all.

So yeah, I guess if you quickly skim over what I wrote, not really reading it much, focus on the quote I called out, and assume there is some sort of insult buried in their to be dredged up and squint your eye’s hard enough, you can draw such a conclusion.

But I’d recommend go back and read what I wrote instead.

fubo ,

I live in a house with three queer/poly people. Around here, people sometimes introduce themselves or others with a note about their pronouns. But if someone doesn’t, it’s okay and either people will pick up the right ones from context, or they will guess and maybe be gently corrected.

“DiD yOu JuSt AsSuMe My GeNdEr??” is not real; it’s an Internet troll parody.

shapis OP ,

That’s a relief.

So just go on about my merry way and if someone corrects me respect their choices ?

fubo ,

Yeah. Like if you thought someone’s name was Joe but it was actually Jeff and they tell you that, it’s not a big deal. Just one of those things that sometimes happens if you’re meeting new people.

OwenEverbinde ,

Oh no, if I think someone’s name is Joe and it turns out being Jeff, I feel atrocious.

fubo ,

Sure, but you probably have the sense to focus that into remembering their name correctly next time. You wouldn’t go telling them that Jeff is a molester name because Epstein and that therefore they should pretend to be named Joe.

LillyPip ,

Exactly this. It’s just a minor social correction. Like if you meet Pamela and a few sentences later you call her Pam. She corrects you to ‘Pamela’ because she doesn’t like the nickname. No big deal, you call her Pamela and move on. It’s like that.

Nonameuser678 ,
@Nonameuser678@aussie.zone avatar

From what I’ve seen gender diverse people generally seem to understand the difference between someone’s who’s just made a mistake and someone who refuses to use the correct pronoun despite being corrected numerous times.

Sneptaur ,
@Sneptaur@pawb.social avatar

Yep exactly! I’m trans and can confirm it’s not a huge deal. It’s actually usually fine to assume someone’s gender.

gibmiser ,

I think the people who end up getting upset are the ones who are isolated from the LGBT community in real life.

ricecake ,

Yup, that’s about it. A good tactic if you’re not sure about someone’s gender is to lead with your own: “hi, I’m shapis, he/him”. They’ll invariably follow suit most of the time. If they don’t and you get it wrong, well, you tried and were polite about it.

DogMuffins ,

I know I’m out of touch on this, but I just can’t imagine someone introducing themselves in this way. Particularly if you’re a cis male and your pronouns are he/him. I guess it depends on context.

ricecake ,

Yeah, it’s definitely still something new. It’s not something I would typically do in 99% of face to face encounters. In work presentations in front of a large audience we typically just fill it in on the introduction card at the start.

It’s only a tactic for the edge case where someone presents ambiguously, in which case they’re probably perfectly used to it as a way to politely ask. And yeah, it’s a little awkward, but no more so that any other “polite chat with a new person” banter.
You can usually tell what pronouns to use via normal social awareness, and when in doubt, sharing yours is a polite way to prompt others to share theirs.

hardcoreufo ,

I’ve been to conferences where the name tag has a place for pronouns but most people don’t fill them out. 99% of the time it’s safe to assume the pronouns you believe are correct, are correct. If you get told otherwise use the preferred pronouns in the future. If someone freaks out over it after one mistake that’s their problem.

You can also get around pronouns by just using names. I find i rarely need to use pronouns.

Gormadt ,
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

And as a bonus linguistic fun fact:

Everyone is they/them until you find out otherwise

Or at least that’s how I was taught English

jpeps ,

“I went to see a doctor about my headaches today.”

“Oh good, what did X say?”

Anyone that doesn’t use ‘they’ here either has more information than I provided or is a bit sexist.

elkaki ,

Just one thing to add, people freaking out is extremely uncommon. I haven’t even heard about a case IRL, even for trans people it isn’t something that tends to happen.

Don’t be afraid to just guess when you are unsure, you can always ask though and at least for younger generations it isn’t seen as weird or unpolite to do so

Kecessa ,

The only place it happens is in conservatives’ minds and when people make the “mistake” on purpose.

elkaki ,

A.K.A “the Jordan Peterson experience”

MystikIncarnate ,

I too, am a straight male. It’s actually pretty easy.

It might be a bit of a faux pas when addressing someone as he/him when they prefer something else. Simply, if the mistake is made, they’ll correct your assumption (I’m sure they get it all the time, it’s not that big of a deal), and tell you their pronouns. Then it’s your task, socially, to respect their wish to be referred to by their pronouns. It might seem awkward to refer to someone directly as “they” or “them”, but it is grammatically correct, it just sounds awkward to our brains because it’s so rarely used as a singular direct pronoun… direct in the way that you’re talking to, or in the presence of that person… but it’s perfectly fine and preferred by your friend/colleague/acquaintance or whatever.

For yourself, if you’re commonly and most comfortably referred to as he/him, then you have two options: 1. ignore it, and people will assume, or 2. put “he/him” in things like your bio/email signature/about me pages and leave it at that. It doesn’t require qualification or context, like “my pronouns are” or something like that, just “he/him” alone in your bio is enough to let people know what you are comfortable with.

Personally, I don’t do anything, I let people assume, because I’m unbothered if someone refers to me as he/him/she/her/they/them. All pronouns for me are fine. I’m most commonly referred to as he/him because it’s the historically “correct” pronouns, but pronouns are more or less irrelevant to me.

And yes, people do, in fact, prefer they/them. I’ve met a few, and it feels awkward at first to say “they”/“them”, but you get used to it.

vis4valentine ,
@vis4valentine@lemmy.ml avatar

Cis allies usually put pronouns in their bios to show support and normalize the act itself of specifying then online. IRL since you are cis and I asume you look masculine there is no need to specify your pronouns.

Just whenever you meet someone and they tell you to talk to them in a specific way, just do it and respect their pronouns. Its easy. Most people dont care if you get it wrong the first times as long as you acknowledge your mistake and correct yourself, your brain will get used to it and you will not make the mistake later. That’s the different between someone who is learning and an idiot purposefully misgendering someone.

BTW if you arent sure about someone elses pronouns, just ask them. Easy.

shapis OP ,

Cool thanks. I just put mine up in my bio. Hopefully in the right spot.

posthexbearposting ,
@posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

IRL since you are cis and I asume you look masculine there is no need to specify your pronouns.

I disagree with this. It’s better not to assume or encourage people to assume pronouns. It’s better to use they/them when you’re not sure. Most of the time you can learn people’s pronouns contextually, by hearing how other people refer to them.

Otherwise, it’s better to use they/them unless you have evidence otherwise. Looks isn’t evidence. It’s not the worst thing to assume once and be wrong, but if you’re aiming for inclusivity it’s better to not assume

vis4valentine ,
@vis4valentine@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah. Good point. But I think OP shouldn’t worry about specifying his pronouns IRL, but what you say is a good general approach.

grabyourmotherskeys ,

One thing I try to do as clueless old man is when I am writing a policy doc or instructions at work, I just stick with they/them.

Instructions on how to merge a branch in Git do not need gender specific pronouns.

vis4valentine ,
@vis4valentine@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah. That is just better.

jpeps ,

I think this is the most basic change to make that simplifies everything. Particularly online, until you described yourself as an ‘old man’ I had no idea of your gender. Traditional language would mean even without this information I’d still refer to you with he/him pronouns, or broader terms like ‘this guy’ etc, but to be more welcoming to everyone, we should be starting out using generic they/them for everyone.

CaptainAniki ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    jpeps ,

    What do you mean by ‘never neutral’?

    Ubettawerk ,

    Your first sentence is a really good point. Many cis-gendered people thing it’s pointless to add their pronouns in their email/bio, but it helps to not out those who are trans. If everyone/most people state their pronouns then it makes it harder to unnecessarily identify those who are trans.

    Tomboys_are_Cute ,

    I am a straight male

    Being straight doesn’t impact what your pronouns are! Your gender, whether you are cis, non-binary, trans, or any other gender identity is what determines these pronouns.

    are my pronouns he/him?

    Probably but thats up to you. Usually pronouns are given in that order as a matter of standardisation for understanding where they go in a sentence. Ie “He is going to the store” or “it all comes down his choice.” Obviously this leaves out some other gendered standard pronouns like formal Sirs and Ma’ams but for most conversation knowing she/her or they/them gets you most of the way there. For standard ones it might be intuitive but for people with neo-pronouns it helps a lot.

    do you tell people when you meet them?

    Sometimes. I try to do it more these days as a matter of course but usually I will give them when I’m in an environment where some people do and don’t where no one does. They are in my email signatures and real social media bios though.

    Online rules

    At least on your profile somewhere. I like Hexbear’s “no exceptions they will be in your name” policy, its better for uptake and helps people feel included.

    figuring out others

    If it isn’t clear you could always ask. If you aren’t a dick about it then it’s usually fine. If you get corrected though the most respectful thing you could do is just say sorry and use the right ones from that point on.

    non conventional pronouns

    Yes people do use them, if you are in places that queer people go to or feel comfortable you are more likely to meet someone with them. I would argue its more polite to refer to them as neo pronouns but I also have boring ones so its not really my place to say. If you look around hexbear there are a couple of frequent posters with neo pronouns and I’ve known a few people irl to use neo pronouns as well.

    TheAnonymouseJoker ,
    @TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

    I have been using “they/them” to refer to unknown internet persons, regardless of gender, since years now. It is a strategy I adopted not out of the progressive social culture norms, but as a way to anonymise people when referring to them or anything they say. And what do you know, turns out that ambiguous linguistics work like a charm across a wide range of things in life.

    JackbyDev ,

    Also it’s literally the way you’re supposed to refer to individuals of unknown gender.

    TheAnonymouseJoker ,
    @TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

    Most people today conform to the standards, either out of fear of getting cancelled or out of respect for humanity (recognising third gender and so on). I adopted the convention long before it was known or “popular” to do so. Each of these 3 cases have a huge difference.

    To someone like me, it felt very disorienting for people to be so chimp headed, they could not or refused to understand that gender and sex are not the same thing, just because it used to always be 2 tickboxes on school forms. Even more weird was why people would not use ambiguous pronouns for cultural privacy.

    robot_dog_with_gun ,

    just be careful not to de-gender someone who makes it known they have one and prefer particular pronouns.

    TheAnonymouseJoker ,
    @TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

    I have never done that, and never was asked to. Maybe it is because I already naturally follow the convention before even being asked, and we are quite a bit far away as a global society from needing to take the extra step (rightwingers that purposely degender and all that).

    verdigris ,

    Pronouns are largely used to refer to people in the third person. As such I will never declare my pronouns because they aren’t for me to use, they’re for other people to use to refer to me. As such they should use whatever pronouns deliver maximal clarity for the listener.

    I will respect others’ pronoun preferences because I’m not an asshole, but when people start trying to tell me that I’m being bigoted by not stating my own pronouns, they can fuck off.

    FaeDrifter ,

    Just for another use case, pronouns can help clarify if you prefer to be called sir or ma’am.

    I wouldn’t call you a bigot for not having preferred pronouns though, that seems really silly.

    Wahots ,
    @Wahots@pawb.social avatar

    Yes, your pronouns are he/him :)

    Generally, people are pretty chill about it. If you are unsure how to refer to someone, you can always just call them by their first name or something else (the barista at the front counter, the person in the yellow sweater, etc!)

    I wouldn’t overthink it, most people are totally cool if you get it wrong, especially if you show a willingness to get it right from then on. Queer people just wanna be treated like everyone else :)

    -queer guy living in the gay district

    BigNote ,

    you can always just call them by their first name or something else

    Well I didn’t know you were called Dennis.

    Ilflish , (edited )

    Pronouns are just your preference for what you should be referred to. If you don’t provide them people will assume. The logic is that if only people who want to use specific pronouns suggest them, you are essentially outing yourself so even if you associate with your birth pronouns, it’s polite to present them so it’s less awkward for others.

    The actual use is more awkward. The expected use is that you use it when the person in question is discussed but a pronoun isn’t really used unless that person is not around so again it seems to just be a polite way to present yourself.

    For added context a good use case of announcing pronouns would be a research paper where someone would be described to another person Edit: Ive been made aware about another obvious use case. Talking to people online where you might not have a way to identify any other way

    JackbyDev ,

    Getting someone’s pronouns wrong once really isn’t too big of a deal. What’s more important is how you react to being corrected and using what they ask you to going forward.

    I still don’t know a good way to ask people their pronouns. Or rather I haven’t had to do it often so I don’t have much practice still so I still feel weird. Sometimes I get nervous that asking someone their pronouns might even make them feel like they don’t pass as the gender they want to present as. I’ve talked about this with people and the advice I’ve been given is that the best way to do it is to introduce yourself with your own pronouns. I still haven’t really had much opportunity to do it so not sure how to make it flow conversationally but the idea is that you’re giving everyone the opportunity to do the same plus it lets them know that you won’t react poorly to hearing someone tell you their pronouns.

    I’ve really only met one person who prefers they/them and a couple of she/they folks. The trans people I have met all pass well enough in my brain that I don’t have to consciously try to use the correct pronoun. It just takes some effort to get used to.

    Back in, say, 2016 or so there was a meme about “did you just assume my gender?” It was always a caricature and it seems like most people either want you to assume it or are okay if you get it wrong so long as you correct yourself once they correct you.

    robot_dog_with_gun ,

    I still don’t know a good way to ask people their pronouns.

    in-person you can do this by offering yours when introduced. this protects binary trans people trying to use cultural indicators of gender from some abuse and normalizes the practice for non-conforming people, nicely resolving the competing accessibility needs of people trying to use existing gender norms and people outside them.

    online you can ask your admin to do what hexbear does with display names and ban anyone being shitty about it.

    wintermute_oregon , (edited )

    I don’t tell people my pronouns. I’m male. I look male. I act male.

    I appreciate when people are questionable or want to use different pronouns tell.

    I equally appreciate when people don’t ask mine.

    idiomaddict ,

    I can’t imagine asking someone, that feels so rude. I just use they/them for most people. I would worry that asking would set any transphobes off while also being a tiny kernel of “I don’t pass” to trans people.

    wintermute_oregon ,

    I hate guessing. Normally it’s obvious.

    If it’s questionable. Most will offer unless they’re looking for drama.

    I have a client who goes by they. I see I don’t do they. They asked me to use whatever I want they matches how they’re expressing. Perfect. They volunteered it when we met.

    I try to accommodate everyone. It’s just manners. I just can do they. I screw it up.

    TankieCatgirl ,
    @TankieCatgirl@hexbear.net avatar

    Can you explain what it means to look and act male? And why you don’t like having people ask yours?

    wintermute_oregon , (edited )

    In 6’2, 225 pounds with about 10% body fat. I look like a man. I act like a man. Nobody has confused me for anything but a man.

    It’s rude as it implies I don’t look or act like a man.

    It’s why women are drawn to me. As my gf says, I wanted you because you’re all man. My last gf said the same thing.

    posthexbearposting , (edited )
    @posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

    How you look doesn’t make you a man. You could literally have all those physical traits and be a woman or non-binary.

    Why is it rude to confirm how you self identify? Is it that horrible being trans or non-binary that people shouldn’t even confirm that you’re cis? How do you think trans people feel when someone assumes their gender based on how they look?

    shitposting___ Wow we got the manliest man man over here! Women love him and he gets all the pussy!

    wintermute_oregon ,

    I explained why troll and don’t use the term cis. It’s offensive. I don’t identify as cis.

    Shouldn’t you have asked if I identify as cis or did you just assume I used the term cis?

    See how quickly you just violated your own rules you tried to chastise me for?

    So go troll somewhere else with your fake concern.

    posthexbearposting ,
    @posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

    Ofc the whinging about cis comes out. You’re cis by the literal definition of the word. Get over it loser.

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    wintermute_oregon ,

    Thank you for validating that you are just a concern troll.

    Either people get to self-describe, or they do not. You really don’t believe any of this, you just want to seem ‘concerned’.

    posthexbearposting ,
    @posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

    I’m not concerned. I’m just calling you out for being a moron and a transphobe. Your time will come lib. stalin-gun-1

    wintermute_oregon ,

    I am neither, but you violated your own rules in your first reply. It just shows you’re a concern troll. Why is it that so many people from Hexbear think people won’t see their BS when it’s so obvious? I am neither a moron nor a transphobe. I am consistent, which is something you are not. So you are only here to troll. I will be blocking you now as I can’t be bothered with trolls.

    posthexbearposting ,
    @posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

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    rjs001 ,
    @rjs001@lemmygrad.ml avatar

    You’re comment is so obviously the actual troll. Read before you comment such ridiculous things

    posthexbearposting ,
    @posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

    I explained why

    saying you’re offended by people not assuming you are a man implies it’s bad to be a different gender, or trans/nb. Idk why you are so scared of people confirming your gender. You are the biggest ❄ on the planet and i cannot wait until you melt.

    rjs001 ,
    @rjs001@lemmygrad.ml avatar

    I think you are the troll. You simply seem like a cis guy who (due to some discomfort) is trying way too hard to ensure everyone knows “I am a CIS MAN”

    wintermute_oregon ,

    Nice Sockpuppet.

    I have no discomfort, and thank you for all the baseless personal attacks. Way to go offtopic to prove you are a troll.

    rjs001 ,
    @rjs001@lemmygrad.ml avatar

    I have 1.9k comments. How many sockpuppets have you seen that have 1.9k comments? Your arguments are just silly

    Shinhoshi ,
    @Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml avatar

    I don’t identify as cis.

    So you’re trans, then?

    posthexbearposting , (edited )
    @posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

    I’m 6’3, 250lbs, 6% bf and non-binary. Also my xad could beat up your dad

    MaoWasRight ,

    I’m sorry. You may be getting it all wrong because right now you just sound like and are acting like a big ol pussy.

    wintermute_oregon ,

    Thanks. You appear to have yourself confused with someone who matters.

    TankieCatgirl ,
    @TankieCatgirl@hexbear.net avatar

    Gonna have to call out the misogyny of calling someone a “pussy”.

    Ocelot ,

    I think at some point language as a whole will shift. Most languages have had a concept of masculine/feminine and differentiating between genders for most if not all of their history. This seems pretty weird as a concept in modern times since it serves no real benefit. If we were to develop a language from scratch today I don’t think it would have such features.

    Its going to take a pretty long time (hundreds of years) but language is constantly evolving. I think it will get there. In the meantime things are going to remain at least a little confusing.

    I have a few transgender friends and its still a bit if a mental hurdle to see them as who they want to be identified as sometimes. I sometimes slip up and will call them by their old name or use the wrong pronoun. It’s never intentional of course, but sometimes my mental auto-correct isn’t working at full capacity. If I meet the person post-transition then its never really a problem as I always see them as that gender.

    Jumi ,

    From what I’ve seen so far pronouns are never in question irl although the circles I’m in there are not into that topic and online everyone who sees it as important has their own somewhere in their status or bio or whatever.

    muntedcrocodile ,
    @muntedcrocodile@lemmy.world avatar

    I make assumptions say what i think if im corrected then sure ill refer to u how u want. And when people get mad for me assuming they can get fucked and grow up they are juat words and if words hurt u that bad uve got bigger problems than ur pronouns.

    innermachine ,

    Facts. My mom is Spanish ASF and to this day regularly misgenders people all the time (call me and my brother she, call sisters he), just hasn’t come easy to her. As long as somebody isn’t INTENTIONALLY calling u the wrong pronouns for the express purpose of pissing you off u just correct them and move on. If u get that hung up on a simple innocent mistake u need to step back and adjust your shitty attitude.

    planish ,

    I think the key is for it to be a provisional guess and not a will-be-shocked-if-it’s-wrong assumption. You need to be prepared to have been wrong.

    JackbyDev ,

    I agree with what you’re saying but there’s a gentler way to say this. No need to say they can get fucked.

    muntedcrocodile ,
    @muntedcrocodile@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah sometimes i forgot that not everyone uses swear words like we do down under

    eupraxia ,
    @eupraxia@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Yeah, I think that’s pretty much all that is generally needed. I’ve had people assume but ask me first, just asking “she/her?” as a question, I respond yes, we go about our business. If you don’t want to assume, you can also pretty much universally use they/them in passing, or if it’s someone you interact with more frequently, people really don’t tend to mind if you ask.

    I mean I’m trans, I get around quite a bit in queer spaces, I haven’t met anyone who would get super mad about initially assuming pronouns rather than just saying “hey I prefer XYZ” and moving on. Generally when people react strongly to being misgendered, it’s due to ongoing conflict over their identities, having to deal with people who use pronouns to casually disregard your Identity, familial abandonment, etc. It is often a response to complex trauma from elsewhere. That’s not really your responsibility, but I’ve been there and if you can offer them any grace in those moments, it’s extremely helpful.

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