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Who's winning the war in Ukraine?

The media won’t give me great answers to this question and I think this I trust this community more, thus I want to know from you. Also, I have heard reports that Russia was winning the war, if that’s true, did the west miscalculate the situation by allowing diplomacy to take a backseat and allowing Ukraine to a large plethora of military resources?

PS: I realize there are many casualties on both sides and I am not trying to downplay the suffering, but I am curious as to how it is going for Ukraine. Right now I am hearing ever louder calls of Russia winning, those have existed forever, but they seem to have grown louder now, so I was wondering what you thought about it. Also, I am somewhat concerned of allowing a dictatorship to just erase at it’s convenience a free and democratic country.

tyrefyre ,

Arms dealers.

Subject6051 OP ,

Woah dudE!

Reminds me of the starting scene in Lord of War

kambusha ,

“Warlord.”

“I prefer it my way.”

andrewrgross ,

Came here to say “Raytheon”.

ininewcrow ,
@ininewcrow@lemmy.ca avatar

The Military Industrial complex … which has no allegiance to any nation and controls more money than most nations in the planet.

Even the US is beholden to it’s power … one of the best descriptions of America is that I’ve ever read was …

The US isn’t a nation … it’s a corporation with a military.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Seems like a stalemate at the moment but it could really go either way from what I can tell. It depends upon if the west will lose interest and cut back on support or if public opinion in Russia wanes towards wanting an end to the war. At the moment it seems neither side is willing to accept the current status quo.

Sheeple ,
@Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

War is never pretty, never fun not clean. Everyone involved ultimately loses and brings tragedy to the unfortunate lifes and families on both sides.

However, if we are speaking purely about “winning” as if it was a game, then the Ukraine certainly is beating Russia and winning. However a victory in a war might not mean that the people of the country won’t be devastated afterwards.

MeowZedong ,
@MeowZedong@lemmygrad.ml avatar

“Nobody is winning.”

“Ukraine is winning, but nobody is winning.”

Omega_Haxors ,

“Ukraine is winning… but in reverse!”

DerisionConsulting ,

The goal posts for both sides are very, very different.

The invading Russian forces have basically failed their first goal; to fully take over Ukraine. They can now claim a minor victory by stealing more territory from Ukraine than just Crimea.

Ukraine’s goal was to stop Russia from wiping them off of the map. Things appear to have changed. Their new goal is to retake all land that Russia has stolen (including Crimea).

The war has largely been at a standstill for a while, and the only times that Ukraine has been able to make progress is when the word has given its attention and resources. Since “Israel vs Hamas” is the guerre-du-jour, Ukraine seems to be getting less of both.

So I may sound like a doomer, but it’s not looking good for the good guys. They have a much harder victory condition, and the resources that they have relied so far may be drying up.

Krause , (edited )
@Krause@lemmygrad.ml avatar

to fully take over Ukraine

This was never Russia’s goal, you can’t quote a single Russian official stating that this was the objective of the SMO.

Ukraine’s goal was to stop Russia from wiping them off of the map

No, Ukraine’s goal was to “liberate” Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea and return to their 1991 borders.

ukrainianworldcongress.org/ukraine-will-liberate-…

news.yahoo.com/ukraine-fight-until-last-liberated…

tvpworld.com/…/ukraine-is-fighting-to-restore-its…

They’ve failed and will never reach this goal.

So I may sound like a doomer, but it’s not looking good for the good guys

It is, you’re just not on the side of the good guys : )

gullible ,

I wish I didn’t have to individually block lemmygrad accounts- it’s my only issue with kbin.social. Still love you, Ernest.

toomanyjoints69 ,

Could you whine less? I like the positive energy of this place and you are ruining my vibes.

gullible ,

I’m positive that this comment will help me find more users who stray from your echo chamber. Keep ‘em coming.

toomanyjoints69 ,

Are you upset?

NoIWontPickaName ,

You don’t understand blocks do you? Here’s another shot.

MeowZedong ,
@MeowZedong@lemmygrad.ml avatar

The people straying from the “echo chamber” aren’t the ones blocking others for dissent. Sounds like you’re projecting.

gullible ,

I’m open to new political opinions, just not regressing through yours.

MeowZedong ,
@MeowZedong@lemmygrad.ml avatar

I completely understand blocking or ignoring those who engage you in bad faith, but when someone disagrees with you and also engages in a discussion in good faith, you are merely silencing voices of dissent by blocking them.

How is that approach not creating an echo chamber? It seems hypocritical to label spaces that welcome good faith discourse “echo chambers” while creating your own.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I love how libs can’t even block others without doing virtue signalling 😂

CannotSleep420 ,

You are really living up to your username.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Pretty funny how you can provide an explanation backed by references and then get mass downvotes because libs still have problems engaging with reality after a year and a half of being wrong about absolutely everything.

Ilovethebomb ,

Of course the Lemmygrad user wants to tongue punch Putin’s chocolate starfish.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I love how libs just regurgitate the same lines in lieu of an argument like trained seals. 😂

ksynwa ,
@ksynwa@lemmy.ml avatar

The invading Russian forces have basically failed their first goal; to fully take over Ukraine.

Has Russia ever stated that this was their goal?

TheSanSabaSongbird ,

Yes.

CannotSleep420 ,

Sauce?

Susaga ,
@Susaga@ttrpg.network avatar

That time they tried to fully take over Ukraine. That’s a pretty good indicator.

CannotSleep420 ,

Since they’re very obviously not trying to take over all of Ukraine, I’ll take that as an admission that you’re full of shit.

shottymcb ,

So you don’t consider charging at a countries capital and dropping airborne troops into a capital trying to take over a country? That’s a really weird take.

CannotSleep420 ,

Reality isn’t a paradox game, so no, I don’t.

ksynwa ,
@ksynwa@lemmy.ml avatar

Can you provide proof for this?

Crankpork ,

Oh my god, we get it, you’re exhausting.

No, I’m not providing proof of this exhaustion. Do your own research.

ksynwa ,
@ksynwa@lemmy.ml avatar

I did try. I just didn’t find anything that remotely comes close to supporting what you claimed.

Crankpork ,

Keep looking. You’ll get it eventually.

ksynwa ,
@ksynwa@lemmy.ml avatar

smuglord

AndrasKrigare ,

Considering Russia denied their intent to invade as they were conducting it, I don’t know that their statements should be considered truth regarding their plans and goals. But here’s Westpoint’s take on the matter:

Initially, the Russian regime may have regarded its invasion of Ukraine as a “regional conflict” with “important” military-political goals, and its classification as a “special military operation” may have been genuine. Indeed, it seems that the Kremlin’s ambitious political objective was to install a new, pro-Russian government in Kyiv by lightning action.

mwi.westpoint.edu/what-is-russias-theory-of-victo….

ksynwa ,
@ksynwa@lemmy.ml avatar

You are unironically sharing a quote riddled with "may"s and "seem"s from United States Military Academy

AndrasKrigare ,

And you are making a statement that seems to suggest absolute knowledge of a country’s intentions are possible with a leader with a lack of credibility and long history of lying on the world stage.

Gee, this is fun. Or were you making some point? Were you expecting some report about their magic mind-reading device?

ksynwa ,
@ksynwa@lemmy.ml avatar

Were you expecting some report about their magic mind-reading device?

But this is what you have been doing all along. Nothing in reality suggests that total annexation of Ukraine was the goal. Not the words of anyone nor the manner in which Russia has executed the invasion yet here you are somehow reading minds to conjure grand motives and subjecting me to smug Reddittor-speak for the crime of asking you to back your frivolous claims. “Gee, this is fun.” Jesus Christ.

AndrasKrigare ,

Nothing in reality suggests that total annexation of Ukraine was the goal

Wait, I’m confused, were you looking for “is” or “suggests?” Because I sent you an article all about “suggests.” And, follow-up question, did you think ‘You are unironically sharing a quote riddled with "may"s and "seem"s from United States Military Academy’ is not smug and was a genuinely civil question?

Since it seems you might not be great at this whole “communicating” thing, I’ll be explicit: Yes, those questions were rhetorical. No, you’ve given me nothing to suggest I should care what your response is.

ksynwa ,
@ksynwa@lemmy.ml avatar

Gee, this is fun. Reality is not wishy washy statements from literal America military institutions. It just exposes you as someone who gobbles American state department nonsense wholesale uncritically. If you watched your Rick and Morty properly you would have known that it is not a smart thing to do. Reality in this case refers to what’s happening on the ground in the war. Like Russia holding it’s annexed territories rather trying to expand indiscriminately.

No, you’ve given me nothing to suggest I should care what your response is.

You are an idiot.

buh ,
@buh@hexbear.net avatar

me

drmoose ,

I don’t think Russia has any chance of winning. The only reason Russians are still in Ukraine is because the west is too pussy to ship the real guns.

This makes you wonder whether people benefit from this or its trully a valid strategy not to bug squash the bully cause they might go mental.

Either way, the war doesn’t have to end through military or peace agreements. Russian economy seems to be ending first. As grim as that sounds but maybe that’ll get Russians caring.

Krause ,
@Krause@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Either way, the war doesn’t have to end through military or peace agreements. Russian economy seems to be ending first.

Russia is outperforming every single EU economy this year except for Spain and Portugal, Germany was thrown into a recession and is deindustrializing and household debt in America is at an all time high, you couldn’t have posted something more removed from reality than this.

MeowZedong ,
@MeowZedong@lemmygrad.ml avatar

I think you forgot to close your eyes and cover your ears before commenting.

intensely_human ,

You should make an account named after someone who thinks and contributes. Maybe FidelCatstro? KarlBarx? FriedrichJingles?

I think this Meow identity is making your brain too smooth. Nobody with that haircut should be running anything IMO

MeowZedong ,
@MeowZedong@lemmygrad.ml avatar

What a weird comment all around.

I’ll definitely keep FidelCatstro in my back pocket though.

PlzGivHugs ,

The war is largely in a stalemate at the moment. Odds are, if this continues for years longer, Russia will eventually win just by virtue of having more people to send to die for the country, but if it comes to that, Russia will suffer far moreso than they already are, both due to increased strikes within Russia and just loosing the majority of their working population.

Fizz ,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

Seems Russia is slowly grinding out Ukraine and if Russia decides to give up at any point or Ukraine negotiates then russia will probably have gained territory.

SovietyWoomy ,

The capitalist class. War profiteers gonna war profiteer. The billions of dollars in funding, arming, and training nazis has also broken the overton window. It’s gotten so bad that criticism received for giving a standing ovation to an ss veteran can be dismissed as Russian propaganda.

Ilovethebomb ,

There’s like twenty Hexbear dorks in this thread saying exactly the same thing, you’re not a very original bunch.

HornyOnMain ,
@HornyOnMain@lemmy.ml avatar

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/c73955f1-140c-4460-8f96-410f013da72b.png
Objective shitjustworks post calling out the military industrial complex

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/b9651b0b-1f91-4a00-a543-53af0d387b07.png
hexbear dork spreading kremlin misinformation by attacking the pro-democracy lethal aid suppliers

us-foreign-policy

Ilovethebomb ,

Hexbear user ranting about nazis, you mean.

weeeeum ,

Frankly, we don’t really know yet because we can’t predict what either side will do, or what concerns/problems are boiling away under the surface.

What’s important about real world events is that they are not like a board or video game. In a video game it doesn’t matter if you flawlessly KO your opponent or win by the tiniest sliver of health, a win is a win.

In the real world though the resources and lives poured into conflicts like these can very well be used for something more productive. At any moment russia could swallow their pride and pull out, but they could also fight to the last man to never admit defeat.

Additionally the methods of victory differ between Ukraine and her allies (the west).

The US and Europe want a swift victory to garner support from voters. So they push Ukraine to do risky offensives and maneuvers.

Ukraine on the other hand wants to play its cards very carefully. Right now they recognize for every Ukrainian casualty, there are multiple Russian casualties. They want to maintain that postive ratio and do not want risky or loss heavy offensives. You can see this mindset at work in Bahkmut. The west wanted Ukraine to pull out of Bahkmut immediately but Ukraine recognized the extremely favorable casualty ratios, with many Russian casualties for each Ukrainian which is why they held on so stubbornly. It wasn’t to hold Bahkmut, it was to grind down the Russian force.

My thumbs are dying so I’ll direct you to a very accurate and detailed source of info on the conflict. Check out William spaniel on YouTube, he is an author and has many videos on the conflict, outlining the goals and problems on each side.

rtxn ,

From what I’ve heard, Ukraine is very slowly taking back strategic locations. At the moment, they’re better equipped than the invaders, but that could change if Russia secures a weapons deal with China or NK. Ukraine also has a wide support (monetary, humanitarian, and military) from western nations. Ukraine has the advantage in the quality of their warfare, Russia in the quantity of meat sacks they can throw at the front.

In my opinion, even if Russia somehow occupies all of Ukraine (which I find unlikely), they will be a pariah nation for many decades. A significant part of their economy is energy export (fossil and nuclear) and the EU is already trying to separate itself from that energy dependence.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

that’s not what’s happening at all, and even western media now openly admits that Ukraine is losing

Ukraine burnt through all the equipment that the west managed to scrounge up for the offensive, and lost most of its experienced and motivated troops in the process. Now, their front is collapsing because they lack weapons and soldiers. Even Stoltenberg is finally admitting this.

Ilovethebomb ,

You sad sacks really are desperate for red team to win, aren’t you? You’ve been saying this for over a year.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

https://media.tenor.com/KqOLJYj0mmUAAAAC/copium-cat.gif

zephr_c ,

I don’t think either side will be able to decisively beat the other, but that’s not how these things usually end anyway.

Actually, I think it’s pretty funny in a sad sort of way that Americans don’t get how this is going to go. It’s really obvious that Ukraine doesn’t need to win, they just need to keep fighting until Russia goes home. Western aid isn’t even really making much of a difference in the eventual outcome of the war, it’s just reducing the damage that Russia is doing to Ukraine and bring that inevitable end closer faster. We’ve seen over, and over, and over again that once a group of people actually make up their minds to resist, there is nothing that can stop them. Even if the aggressor can bring overwhelming military superiority they will eventually give up and go home, and Russia can’t even do that.

The question isn’t who will win. The question is how many war crimes will Putin commit before admitting he lost this war in the second week.

IsThisLoss ,

copium

Candelestine ,

Tbf the guy that said arms dealers is 100% correct.

My opinion is that Ukraine has a light-moderate advantage right now.

It mainly comes down to American and EU politics. If both aid packages pass, then Ukraine is in a good position to build up over the winter and continue slowly pushing to cut off Crimea, which is the biggest prize. Steadily growing air power is going to make a significant difference, we already saw recently how helpful Russia’s re-emerging air power was in grinding down the push across the Dnieper.

As an American I’m fairly confident our aid package will eventually pass. Tying it to Israeli aid is a punch below-the-belt, the repubs can’t back away from that. They’re in negotiations currently, probably stalling. Israel could really use that aid though…

My understanding of the EU aid is Hungary is being a pain, but there’s other tricks available in a big bureaucracy, so we’ll see. Maybe a European can fill that part in better.

Militarily the Russians are slowly and steadily pushing in the east. There’s nothing terribly important over there, but land is land, towns are towns. Their troop losses are high but they also have a high intake supposedly, so it’s possible they can keep this up for awhile. War materiel is continuously exhausting though, people may have noticed they are not shooting nearly as much artillery as they were in the initial parts of the war. But, you don’t actually need tanks and heavy equipment and shit per se, so, it’s a grinder. Their war support is starting to crack, but is still strong. They might have more mines than Ukraine does Ukrainians, so that’s annoying too.

The Ukrainians are digging in. Or at least that’s how it seems, they can be a little tricksey sometimes. They’re still ramping up though, building more forces. They have plenty of will and soldiers and grain, but need more money and materiel. The capture of the Russian side of the Dnieper was impressive though, that probably shouldn’t have happened. If they get the resources, they can probably win.

Oh, and the railroad between China and Russia blew up. No idea how that might’ve happened… Was the only one though.

half_built_pyramids ,

Right now I am hearing ever louder calls of Russia winning

Winning was taking over the county at first. Then it was kherson, and donbass, crimea, and a few others. Now it’s just like 3 areas. If you’re hearing anything about winning it’s because the goal posts are moving.

Youtuber Perun had some good high level takes on the war. It all boils down to Western support will win. As long as support keeps coming from the rest of the world, eventually Russia will run out of material. WW2 was won (not wholly, but in large part) due to the larger economy being on the allies side.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Do provide us with sources where Russians stated these were the goals. Seems like it’s western propagandists who’ve been making up goals for Russia and then moving the goal posts.

vzq ,

We were here two years ago. Stop gaslighting.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

You were lying two years ago just the same as you are now. Where are the sources?

vzq ,

gIvE mE sOuRCeS

v_pp ,

so, what, you just make shit up then deflect when someone points that out?

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah, give me sources for the wild shit you keep making up here. The fact that this is your reaction when being confronted about your lies says all we need to know about you.

vzq ,

gIvE mE sOuRCeS

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

don’t have any do you troll

vzq ,

gIvE mE sOuRCeS
gIvE mE sOuRCeS

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

keep screeching

Kepabar ,

Do I need sources for the failed invasion of Kyiv?

Everyone knows about it.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah, I need sources for the fantastical claim that Russia was trying to take Kyiv with 100k troops. It’s a particularly interesting claim given that they allocated 40k troops to take Mariupol which is an order of magnitude smaller city. A far more plausible scenario is that Russia used 100k troops to fix a chunk of Ukrainian army around Kyiv while Russians took large parts of Ukrainian territory in the east which they still hold today.

azertyfun ,

The paratroopers in Kyiv’s airport were just taking in the scenery. Really unfortunate that they were shot. And that 50 km tank column headed for Kyiv really was just lost on its way to Mariupol. Yep, exactly, that’s what happened.

Lmao what a lame-ass trolling attempt, you have mush for brains if you think this is either effective propaganda or… funny?

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

The only one with mush for brains is the guy who thinks Russia would be trying to take Kyiv with 100k troops. The fact that you don’t even understand why that’s absurd makes it all the more hilarious.

boreengreen ,

During ww2 the involved parties and their allies were in wartime economy. This is the support that ukraine needs. I feel like today, the west is sending the military version of happy meal aid packages, once in a while, when it’s politically convenient. Should we scale up manufacturing for wartime? Let’s procrastinate.

Ilovethebomb ,

Nah, the amount of aid and material they’re sending is substantial, including modern tanks and artillery, as well as more mundane things like shells, bullets etc.

And they will keep doing it for as long as it takes.

dudinax ,

The West would like Ukraine to win, but it’s more important to the West that the war drag on and be a drain on Russia’s resources.

Kissaki ,

No it’s not. The west has nothing to gain from it dragging on. Nobody wants it to drag on.

ours ,

It sucks for Ukraine but a Russia tied down in Ukraine has less funds to meddle with the rest of the World.

It drains their military and their economy while Putin must be extra careful against coups. There has been one very famous coup attempt directly related to the war (Wagner Group) and who knows how many other smaller attempts have been stopped preemptively?

v_pp ,

This is some absolutely depraved shit. You’re sitting here justifying levels of death and destruction and human misery that are beyond your comprehension just because of some made up conspiracy theories about Russia “meddling” with other countries. In what possible universe does that make you anything other than pure fucking evil?

fruitycoder ,

Very expensive way to drain Russia. Tbh following trends the best way to drain Russia was the status quo of letting Putin dictate it into obscurity through corruption.

ours ,

But during the status quo, Putin had his hands free to finance destabilizing extremists, Internet troll armies and wage cyberwarfare on the West.

All while reflecting an image of strength.

dudinax ,

They have quite a lot to gain by it. Getting the other side stuck in a quagmire has been the preferred strategy for both sides in US vs. Russia for decades.

Kissaki , (edited )

They would gain more by cooperation or ignoring.

It’s just that you can’t do that when the other party is actively destructive.

Doesn’t make it a gain in my eyes. Labeling it a gain at least requires a contextualized qualification. So saying the EU is interested in prolonging the conflict is very disingenuous.

EU would have far more to gain ffrom Russia leaving Ukraine. Saying the EU wants to prolong the conflict for gains is disingenuous, at least misleading or ambiguous.

dudinax ,

What the West gains is a diminished Russia less inclined to adventure. That’s a big gain.

The most important goal in this situation for the West is to avoid war with Russia. Since Russia has the resources to wage the war for a long time as long as the West doesn’t join it, then whether Ukraine wins is purely a Russian decision.

fruitycoder ,

The amount of people fighting back on supporting a sovereign democracy getting attacked by a oligarchical dictatorship is nuts.

Like we did appeasement in the 40s already, it was a bad strategy.

ComradeEd ,
@ComradeEd@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Like we did appeasement in the 40s already, it was a bad strategy.

No no. It was a great strategy. Germany went to war. It was just that Germany also went to war with us, which wasn’t what we wanted.

Krause ,
@Krause@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Perun

Garbage NATO propaganda channel, about as reliable to give you an honest summary of what is happening as listening to the Ukrainian government itself.

WW2 was won (not wholly, but in large part) due to the larger economy being on the allies side

On the Soviet’s side*, 80% of Germany’s casualties were in the Eastern Front.

Aria ,

The absurd claims of Russia’s goals are all from western propaganda. This is from the day of the invasion: rt.com/…/550466-putin-ukraine-opeartion-goals/What are their goals?

  • Demilitarise Ukraine – This is a huge task, but they’re making fast progress.
  • Denazify Ukraine – They’re failing this task, but it’s something that can’t be done until after the war anyway.
  • Create a buffer between a NATO-member-Ukraine and Russia – Incorporating Donbas might satisfy this goal.
  • Stop the sieges on Donetsk and Lugansk – This goal has been met.

And then they clarify, denazification is optional. A general occupation of Ukraine is not their plan.

If there is more land they want to occupy, then occupying and holding it now doesn’t actually further that goal. The only thing holding it now is good for is protecting the civilians or using it strategically, either industrially or for staging. Because if the country is successfully demilitarised, Ukraine won’t be able to resist occupation, so that land can be taken later for cheaper. But they haven’t outlined a goal of taking additional land. Crimea was already incorporated at the time, so that’s an extra implied goal – Don’t lose Russian land.

MedicPigBabySaver ,

This is exhibit “A” of how the U.S. fights it’s proxy wars.

They could provide enough support to kick the shit out of Russia.

But, the World politics doesn’t fit that twisted & ridiculous narrative.

I’m not a conspiracy type. However, it makes ZERO sense to me that the U.S. hasn’t provided everything possible to push Russia out.

IMO: actual full U.S. support pushing the limits of “war”, would end this insanity in short order.

Aidinthel ,

I’ve been following Professor Phillips Obrien for analysis on this subject, and he largely shares your opinion.

He thinks that if the US really wanted Ukraine to win the administration would have been providing much more long-range weapons, and that they still could. Ukraine can still win, but it depends on their allies actually helping them do that.

MedicPigBabySaver ,

It’s bizarre & frustrating. It’s crystal clear that NATO countries or EU countries could provide the support to help Ukraine kick the shit out of Russia.

My brain hurts wondering why it hasn’t happen. This shit really makes me believe in some type of stupid crap like Illuminati 😉

bioemerl ,

it makes ZERO sense to me that the U.S. hasn’t provided everything possible to push Russia out.

Israel

China

Venezuela getting prepared to invade one of its neighbors.

Couple of nations in Africa are getting ready to go to war too, I forget what the name of it was, Uganda? They're wanting to get a path to the ocean.

The United States needs to be ready not only to fight in Ukraine, but also about four other places in the world right now. I'm in full support of giving them everything possible, but there's a lot of valid reason not to go full of ham.

MedicPigBabySaver ,

Of course there are global crisis at any given time.

But, seriously, Russia has been the top antagonist for more than 70 years. The U.S. should be bashing the shit out of them.

D1G17AL ,

I believe you are thinking of Ethiopia going to war with Eritrea. Eritrea recently gained independence from Ethiopia and now the Ethiopians want a sea port again. Watch that turn into an Iran vs USA proxy war too.

wintermute_oregon ,

Didn’t see you reply but typed something very similar. We train the Ukraine army for combined arm warfare then we don’t supply them the combined arms. It’s like we want it to drag out.

jaidyn999 ,

Compare with the level of support israel has got. You can be certain people in Ukraine are.

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