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Honytawk ,

Those cameras wouldn’t be needed if people didn’t drive so fast it endangers the people around them.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The many decades cars existed before those cameras also had speeders.

redisdead ,

And they were dangerous idiots back then. Be glad there’s finally an automated way to catch them instead of relying on a biased cop to be here.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The ‘automated way’ can be miscalibrated or just malfunctioning. What are you going to do when you go legally through a green light but the camera says you didn’t?

redisdead ,

You have recourses. People fight tickets all the time.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

How do you convince a judge that the photo they are looking at is a lie?

redisdead ,

The pictures are worthless if you don’t see the light on them.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

And yet, many don’t.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e6218aa5-53e1-4e68-8101-a2f220865088.png

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ed9dd24d-a85d-4b1a-8dcf-178e7ba8f347.png

And then there are cases like this- abc7chicago.com/…/10892854/

redisdead ,

I like how the link you post is about someone wrongly given a citation and they were cleared in the end.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, that is the point. They had to get cleared. It took time and effort despite the fact that they were totally innocent. They could have lost out on pay because they had to take unpaid time off to deal with this.

Why should that have to be the case ever?

redisdead ,

What do you think happens when a cop makes a mistake, which is more likely to happen than an automated camera?

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

When a cop makes a mistake, they don’t have a photo that “proves” it isn’t a mistake. So you at least have a better chance with the right judge.

Malfeasant ,

While I hate photo enforcement as much as the next guy, this is a piss poor argument against it. Have you never been fucked over by a lying cop? I have. Camera tickets are way easier to fight.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Sure. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying, with the right judge, you have a better chance fighting a red light ticket with a cop than you do with a photo which “proves” you did it. Even if it’s a small chance, it’s still a better chance.

Malfeasant ,

It’s not though. At least in my jurisdiction, a traffic ticket can’t be acted on unless it’s given in person - so in the case of photo enforcement, you just don’t respond. Then it’s just a matter of dodging the process server, if they even bother hiring one, which they often won’t when there’s plenty of low hanging fruit.

iopq ,

How about we just change to roundabouts without any lights and everyone just has to carefully merge

Psythik ,

But that would make too much sense

redisdead ,

Roundabouts bring other issues and aren’t necessarily the safety haven people claim they are.

Malfeasant ,

Eh, they’re generally safer. They do tend to increase number of accidents, but because they force you to slow down and merge, they’re generally minor. More fender benders, fewer fatal wrecks, isn’t that a good thing?

Trainguyrom ,

Not every intersection can or should be replaced with a roundabout, but its a tool that is certainly underutilized in the American road designer’s tool belt

iopq ,

Yes, but it’s like 90% at least. And for the remainder, there are other options. You can make an overpass for a really important road with right exits only. That lets a lot more traffic through, while letting you get off in the middle without being stuck on it.

MystikIncarnate ,

Well, this just happened recently in my local area. Easy pickings…

https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/11b80ea1-889d-4ca5-b980-cefc21b3d628.jpeg

KillingTimeItself ,

why are there cameras enforcing photos? Seems like a weird thing to enforce.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

You know who has never paid a speeding ticket his entire life? The guy who rides the bus.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

If there were a bus closer than two miles and across a four-lane highway from me, I would be that guy.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, the system is fucked. But I can’t help notice we install speed traps rather than bus lanes, almost as though we see drivers as revenue streams rather than traffic risks.

Malfeasant ,

My city is installing red light cameras because of course milking drivers for missing the yellow by 1/2 second is better than actually fixing the problem of having hundreds of right angle crossings between roads with speed limits over 40mph (so people routinely go 50+ simply because they can)…

If we replaced some of those with roundabouts, others with over/underpasses, that might actually reduce fatal collisions, but that would cost money rather than rake it in, so…

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

If we replaced some of those with roundabouts, others with over/underpasses

That’s definitely another approach, although these kinds of infrastructure changes are expensive and come with their own risks. Roundabouts take up more space than four-way stops, while underpasses flood and overpasses freeze. Your essential problem - moving too many overlarge vehicles through too small a space - is mitigated, but not resolved.

But yes, a camera that functions as a revenue stream is far more attractive than anything that might actually save lives.

Malfeasant ,

underpasses flood

I’m in the Phoenix area, while that can happen, it’s a rare occurrence.

overpasses freeze.

Even rarer.

Really it all comes down to cost- we spend millions on adding more lanes to highways, but very little on local connecting roads… Why spend anything to fix a problem when we can profit from the problem?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

I’m in the Phoenix area, while that can happen, it’s a rare occurrence.

Sure, its always a rare occurrence. But when it happens, it can create a huge mess. Also points thumb at climate change less rare day-by-day.

Really it all comes down to cost

For a city like Phoenix not to have a modern mass transit system is a criminal waste of money and manpower. You’re talking about billions of dollars in highway expansion and tens of thousands of potholes getting filed, all so people stay in their cars.

FFS, its not even as though buses and trains are unpopular. Just ask folks in New York or DC. Even the Houston transit lines are commuter gold - filling up with tens of thousands of passengers every morning and evening who don’t need a place to park once they get downtown.

Why spend anything to fix a problem when we can profit from the problem?

Privatize the profits, socialize the losses. No more successful business strategy has ever existed.

Malfeasant ,

What I’d really like to see is more cycling infrastructure… But in this climate, that’s less likely to happen than public transportation. But hey, we’re improving that, we have light rail that runs… On the streets.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

What I’d really like to see is more cycling infrastructure…

Oh absolutely. And it drives me nuts to see the current mayor of Houston getting ready to tear up a bunch of cycling infrastructure the city has installed over the last decade. Bicycling was one of the bright spots of living in the Houston interior, and a bike highway into downtown would have been invaluable.

But hey, we’re improving that, we have light rail that runs… On the streets.

$10B to jiggle I-45 for faster trucking, but not one penny for raised rail.

suction ,

You know who has never had a commute where they didn’t want to throw up because of B.O.?

lseif ,

i agree that more money should be put into improving public transport

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

My brother in christ, have you ever been in a cab or on a plane?

StaySquared ,

5.5lbs of just copper alone?! WTF… that’s a heavy ass camera.

Deepus ,

Yeah im calling bullshit on this one

dumblederp ,

Fuck people who drive recklessley. There’s more copper in their car than the camera. Heaps more as we move to EV’s and not micromobility solutions.

Venat0r ,

youtu.be/uYnEdbRLmJM

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

Did you know that some vehicles have a trunk release within the drivers reach? Did you know that some of these vehicles do not check for speed readings before allowing you to release the trunk lock? Did you know that some of these vehicles have springs so strong that they can hold the trunk open against wind resistance of over 50mph? Did you know that some of these vehicles have an angled license plate location, obscuring the plate when the trunk is open? Did you know that you can test this with just you and a friend following you on a quiet/rural road? And did you know that not all states require a frontal license plate?

Use this information wisely. And fuck speed/combo cameras that are set to a very low tolerance.

MedicPigBabySaver ,

Did you know that vast majority of vehicles do not flip the trunk with a release button?

No? I guess you’re pretty dumb.

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

some

You: THAT MEANS ALL DURRRR U TUPID

MedicPigBabySaver ,

Yes, you’re stupid. Thanks for clarifying with your inane response.

Acklavidian ,

If you want to end the enforcement cameras just take a picture of the plates of your least favorite high ranking political figure. Print a ton out and go a sports bar or chad gym and paste over all the plates in the parking lot. Prioritize cars with big fins or stance. That driver’s infraction are re routed to the copied tag. Rinse repeat once they catch on to that tag.

Allero ,

If you want to end the enforcement cameras, drive responsibly and don’t break the rules that are written in blood.

There are many instances of dystopian government overreach in many places. This ain’t it.

TeenieBopper ,

Eh…

There’s quite a bit of low tax rates mixed in with that ink. Politicians want to boast about low taxes, but that revenue needs to come from somewhere and now it’s fines and fees.

OneWomanCreamTeam ,

The speed cameras aren’t there to keep anyone safe, they’re there to collect revenue.

limelight79 ,

Our state has speed cameras in school zones. I would like to see before-and-after statistics showing that fewer kids have been hit since the installation of the cameras.

Of course, said data doesn’t exist, because no one bothered to collect it. It “feels” safer and generates revenue, so they do it.

Allero ,

Which you can easily counter by following the rules for once.

The solution is as simple as that, and if you feel compelled to break the rules - let it at least be a source of revenue.

OneWomanCreamTeam ,

Yeah, but I can counter the guy who 's speeding, SLAMS on his breaks right before the camera, then floors it once he’s past.

Allero ,

If the following car doesn’t speed, the guy will roam past, making braking a non-issue for the lawful driver behind as the distance between them will continuously increase.

The only place where it is an issue is when he tries to get in front of someone right before the stoplight.

But in any case, this is reckless and dangerous driving and I’d much prefer each country would have rules against that.

OneWomanCreamTeam ,

The guy that starts speeding is a danger to everyone around them. A lot of the time that speeding includes erratically weaving between other cars, even if they barely have the room to get through.

Allero ,

Absolutely true. Speeding often correlates with such behavior, which brings even more danger to the roads.

Honytawk ,

That is why we have traject control cameras which calculate the speed between 2 cameras.

MintyFresh ,

Thank you. People will eat organic vegan, apply sunscreen, exercise regularly, but when they get behind the wheel suddenly loose a certain sense of self preservation. And me preservation too! Cause I’m that asshole walking on the too small sidewalks. Assholes

Psychodelic ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    ivanafterall ,
    @ivanafterall@kbin.social avatar

    Could well just be a Utah thing, but here they take your information/look at your ID when you first scrap metal some/most(?) places, so this would be a tough one to sell, if you pulled it off. Like a smaller, less profitable version of stealing a car. Now what?

    _lilith ,
    @_lilith@lemmy.world avatar

    copper melts, make bars

    wreckedcarzz ,
    @wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

    Ugh I have to run a business now too? What’s next, taxes?

    (because context ‘bars’ mean ‘of copper’ but also generally ‘liquor establishments’… this thing on?)

    FleetingTit ,

    Traffic enforcement cameras are good for all road-users, including car drivers! We need more of them, tbh. And I say that as a petrol-head.

    BakonGuy ,

    I used to agree with this until I had one false positive me a few years ago. Now I think they’re bullshit since the cops that sign off on the citations don’t even look at them.

    Honytawk ,

    I too throw my phone in the trash can after the spell checker made a single mistake.

    grue ,

    Enforcing traffic laws is one thing, but sooner or later they’re going to get hooked up to a central archive and database and be used to create a license-plate-tracking panopticon.

    DragonTypeWyvern ,

    Already happening

    itsonlygeorge , (edited )

    There was a study done about this in the late 90s. With existing analog cameras in New York City police were able to track cars license plates with 90% accuracy. Keep in mind this was pre-GPS, pre-digital processing, and pre-image recognition.

    Just think how much further camera technology, computer software, and image recognition has come since then. Not to mention that your phone and car or GPS enabled and constantly tracking your location.

    This has been here for over 30 years.

    s_s ,

    “Is that a barcode scanner? That can be used by the government to track my purchases!”

    –Burt Gummer (Tremors 2, 1996)

    The government already tracks your car with its GPS transmitter.

    lolcatnip ,

    Yeah, where I live (Seattle), automated systems are basically the only traffic enforcement we have because our police are a bunch of deadbeats who decided a few years back that enforcing laws was beneath them.

    Console_Modder , (edited )
    @Console_Modder@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I’m calling bullshit on this. There is no way there is that much copper in one of those cameras. However, if you find a red light camera that looks like a big birdhouse or a mailbox… I’ve heard that those cameras might be more worth your time

    https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/fa78ee5e-7bc8-4740-b864-92569be5b2e7.jpeg

    jaschen ,

    Those cameras are specialty built. There was some guy that stole a bunch of those cameras and got busted because he wasn’t able to offload the cameras and eventually tried craigslist.

    drdiddlybadger ,
    @drdiddlybadger@pawb.social avatar

    I want to play with those lenses so bad.

    Cethin ,

    Why does that need so many cameras? That seems like overkill.

    Malfeasant ,

    Because they’re not just taking a picture when triggered - they stream full motion video back to HQ full time. That should tell you how much money is up for grabs.

    roofuskit ,

    Because they have different functions.

    areyouevenreal ,

    What are those cameras for?

    NeptuneOrbit ,

    Is this really true? Pipes, heat exchangers and motors all have lots of copper. Why would a camera have a lot of copper in it?

    Google is not being helpful and just returning results of this meme. There is a story out of Houston implying they do not have a lot of copper. And a story out of Honolulu that’s pretty ambiguous.

    You’d think they basically just be a digital camera, a big lens, power supply, hardwired internet. So I mean I guess you could just cut and harvest the power line, but that will eventually lead down the pole and into concrete. The internet line is apparently fiber optic in many cases.

    ReducedArc ,

    Definitely, I would be shocked if there’s more than a pound of copper in that camera assembly. It’s all low voltage electronics.

    EarthShipTechIntern ,

    Picture is of an archaic camera. New cameras have no lbs of copper. Maybe oz

    Lost_My_Mind ,

    "Google is not being helpful and just returning results of this meme. "

    Google? Not providing helpful results in 2024???

    :O

    PyroNeurosis ,

    Did they try adding glue to it?

    pyre ,

    I’m sorry to go against the echo chamber but it’s clearly user error in this case. they were probably looking for results relevant to what they put into the search field when they’re supposed be looking for ads.

    Lost_My_Mind ,

    Oh, THAT’S what that is! Oooooooh, ok. Yeah. That makes sense. Couldn’t be a bunch of out of touch CEOs with more money than brains leading us down the worst possible path in the pursuit of profits by any means needed. That’s why they get paid the big bucks!

    …I swear I’ve posted messages with 10x more sarcasm, and I was mistaken for being sincere, and starting a fight. So if it’s not blatently obvious by my words and tone, apperently we now need to point out sarcasm on the internet. So this is me letting you know I’m agreeing with you, and egging the joke on.

    I swear society sucks today. I guess they sucked yesterday too. Probably will suck tomorrow too.

    pyre ,

    to be fair, you need to point out sarcasm because some people lost the plot so hard that there are genuine comments that go beyond your wildest sarcastic ones.

    just like how Don’t Look Up was supposed to be an over the top satire of climate/science deniers but by the time that movie came out that side already went way beyond the level of crazy they could even satirically depict.

    musk fans who had a terrible time with the cybertruck still acting like it’s the best thing ever is another example. satire is dead because real people are crazier.

    EarthShipTechIntern ,

    Cameras from the 90s, maybe. New cameras don’t even weigh 5lbs.

    NeptuneOrbit ,

    The housing is probably pretty heavy and there may be a back up battery. But unless there is a powerful motor somewhere to turn the camera (unlikely) then yeah there’s only going to be a few ounces of copper.

    Fedizen ,

    I’m not generally in favor of obeying rules but enforcing them on 2+ tons of metal that people drive around is kinda where I start being in favor. With large dangerous objects should come some semblance of responsibility and social demand.

    Or if we’re shitposting, every one of those cars contains at least 10k in scrap metal.

    surewhynotlem ,

    If they’re just enforcing speeding rules, then I’m all for it. But something tells me the speed limit enforcement is an ancillary side effect of them keeping a record of every car that passes the thing and when.

    fishpen0 ,

    It in incentivizes lowering speed limits below what the actual reasonable speed is for an area to increase profits. There are literally speed trap towns where their largest revenue stream comes from their speed traps.

    www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/…/71970613007/

    EatATaco ,

    Funny that you would use an article about cops writing tickets to argue that speed cameras are bad. We all agree that speed traps suck and are wrong, but nothing in your article is about the topic, unattended speed cameras, and it mentions nothing of them doing anything shady, outside of aggressive enforcement.

    iopq ,

    In California speed limits are set by survey to the 85th percentile of speeds. I think it’s a decent approach, it means the vast majority of people are driving at this speed.

    redisdead ,

    Lowering speed limits is a good thing always.

    Malfeasant ,

    15mph on freeways, 1mph on city streets. Go!

    redisdead ,

    Yes. Let’s make cars useless and make our planet a better place. Go!

    Malfeasant ,

    Fair enough, I can get behind that.

    steal_your_face ,
    @steal_your_face@lemmy.ml avatar

    Red light cameras actually cause more accidents. Speeding cameras are cool though I think.

    Fedizen ,

    they sometimes do but the kinds of accidents they create are less dangerous - approx half of deaths from running reds are pedestrians/cyclists and run red collisions are often T-bone collisisions etc whereas rear ending people from not running lights is usually a front to back collision, which is significantly safer for all parties.

    So if there is any pedestrian traffic at all or high traffic in both directions then photo enforced intersections are still a good tradeoff.

    MindTraveller ,

    Noooo you don’t understand, having my property slightly damaged is waaaaaaay worse than taking a pedestrian’s life

    Pelicanen ,

    One major problem is that the incentive of increasing income from tickets causes authorities to shorten the time the yellow light is visible, meaning that drivers have less time to react and run a larger risk of actually running a red light and entering those dangerous situations you mentioned.

    One way of dealing with this would be to ensure that the ones receiving the money are not the same ones issuing the punishment.

    lolcatnip ,

    All the cool thieves know stealing catalytic converters for the platinum in them is the way to go. Way easier than hauling away multiple tons of scrap metal.

    Fedizen ,

    I thought it was the palladium, but yeah they are valuable.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    Or if we’re shitposting, every one of those cars contains at least 10k in scrap metal.

    most of those cars can just be resold as uh. Cars.

    Trainguyrom ,

    Or if we’re shitposting, every one of those cars contains at least 10k in scrap metal.

    From what I’ve heard from folks who have had worn out beaters with no miles left in them crushed, its like a $500-1000 in scrap metal, so not as bad as you might think actually

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