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sentient_loom , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot
@sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works avatar

Who cares? It’s not exactly traumatizing to reboot your computer.

entropicshart ,

You’ve clearly not had an update trigger when you were trying to present something, join a meeting, or simply do a quick restart after installing a program and get hit with a 10min “updating windows; do not shut off”

sentient_loom ,
@sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works avatar

It shouldn’t do it automatically. It shouldn’t update during a presentation at all.

entropicshart ,

I’ve had to create GP edits to prevent it from happening because it most certainly does.

Even then MS is fantastic at throwing up MFA reauthentication mid meeting or forgetting to throw it up at all and leaving you shadow logged into Outlook/Teams where it will appear functional from your side, but you will it receive anything until you close and reopen the apps.

They’ve had these issues for years and never prioritize fixing them.

Everythingispenguins ,

I find having to boot into windows traumatizing regardless

cyberpunk007 ,

It is for me.

SomeGuy69 , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot
@SomeGuy69@lemmy.world avatar

I used to want this, but the latest updates of windows have all been so buggy. I’d prefer to not have this shit happen in mid usage. They once fucked up the search by accident and it was disrupting enough to my workflow until I found ways to disable the search being a default web search.

MIDItheKID ,

It looks like it’s just security updates, not feature updates. So I would take this as a win. If a 0-day is discovered, being able to update systems to fix it without a restart is fantastic. I know plenty of people who avoid restarting their computer if they see the update icon in their system tray. If we are talking security, these people could be leaving themselves vulnerable for days/weeks. Being able to push security patches without restarts is a big win.

jbk , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot

So according to the official page on Hotpatching (without any trackers like in the article), this reminds me of kpatch. I guess Microsoft really wants to spend the effort of making that work. Isn’t kpatch not really supported (without $$$) by many larger distros since it’s prone to break easily?

jbk ,

I found more info: Microsoft SQL Server Engine already does hot patching and I guess the same way will be used in other MS apps: techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/…/849700

squozenode ,

Isn’t the concept of kernel live-patching just “wait until the kernel’s not using that module, and slip in anupdatesd version”

scv ,

I don’t know about Windows, on Linux it’s at the function level, and some cases are tricky.

SnotFlickerman , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Even if Windows does this, trust me, if you have any Razer products, Razer will fill in the gaps for them.

That shit restarts my Windows machine nearly every fucking day.

helpImTrappedOnline ,

I love that the Razer installer pops up during windows intital setup. Seriously, chill out Razer, I don’t want to sign in to you while I’m bypassing the Microsoft forced sign in.

elvith ,

It looks like you changed the position of your mouse cursor. Would you like to reboot to apply these changes?

Lucidlethargy ,

This is an odd comment. I use a Razer keyboard and mouse and I’ve never experienced this. What products are you using?

Edit: Thi said, I HATE how Razer and Nvidia make you sign in to update things. Like, REALLY hate that. They even force two factor on us. Like… Why the fuck do I care about account security for either of those?

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

You can update Razer by signing in as Guest and not actually logging in. I think it is the same with Nvidia. They just eant you to think you need to log in.

QuaternionsRock ,

I didn’t looking it that much, but while “continue as guest” is a prominent option in Razer Synapse, I was unable to get GeForce Experience to let me install updates without signing in.

It’s whatever though, you can install and update to relatively recent Nvidia drivers with the CUDA winget package. Now that I think about it, around 95% of my Windows software is installed through winget these days. I’m a big fan.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I run a main box that I still dual-boot between Linux and Windows, and the rest of my boxes are Linux. I’m definitely skeptical of Microsoft’s drive in adding these tools other than to try to unseat Linux dominance in server settings, but for real, some of the stuff they’ve been adding is pretty tits, like winget for example.

QuaternionsRock ,

I don’t think there are malicious intentions behind winget. Aside from the fact that it’s objectively useless for server configuration, Windows Server lost to Linux in terms of performance per dollar a long time ago. The target use case for winget seems to have been spinning up new employee PCs, but I’m not confident that it would be wise to use it for that.

It’s also shockingly simple for a package manager. Nearly all of the “packages” simply download the software’s installer from the official website and silently execute it. You can see (and add to) all of the package configs here. It’s literally a GitHub monorepo lmao

Edit: here is the one for Steam, for example. The whole thing is 63 lines of yaml.

RememberTheApollo , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot

It keeps trying. I keep denying it.

I would far rather pay a fee for an OS, like I did for every computer I built up to Win 7, and not have to deal with M$oft’s BS and ad-pushing.

spujb ,

you and every person who upvoted you did not read the article lol

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

Or even the preview…

Lemmy moment.

Aatube ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Or even the headline

"your Windows 11 PC"

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

You deny security updates? Why would you do that?

GlitterInfection ,

I raw-dog the internet.

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

are there internet bug chasers?

GlitterInfection ,

Security analysts? Those guys are dirty.

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

That does fit. What would their grindr be?

Archer ,

Open telnet port on a Spamhaus blacklisted IP

lud ,

Well, Windows isn’t free…

uis , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot

Haven’t everyone install linux yet?

noodlejetski , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot

replicatethefractionofourpower.jpg

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It seems like Microsoft is going through a real phase of “I made this” and they’re adding all these features that were core to Linux since damn near Linux’s inception.

Multiple desktop instances, sudo (which isn’t the same sudo…), and now trying to mimic the rebootless update.

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish when?

maynarkh ,

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish when?

What do you think WSL is trying to be?

deur , (edited )

Um… they’re an OS adding more OS features. Get over yourself, EEE is a real thing but holy fuck stop it.

(WSL is concerning EEE-wise, literally nothing else you listed is a valid complaint)

Cypher , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot

Microsoft have done this previously and shelved it because their method had enormous security issues.

I don’t see this going well for them.

victorz ,

Isn’t it possible they could learn from their mistakes? Just playing devil’s advocate here.

TDCN , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot
@TDCN@feddit.dk avatar

Didn’t they say the same when they were developing windows 10? I don’t believe it’s gonna happen.

Pantherina , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot

So they are going back to the way Linux does it since forever?

Why not just go image based? Instant reboots and even faster updates.

homesweethomeMrL , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot

me looking out on the sea of windows users like, oh the humanity

Rob , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot

If Microsoft actually pulls this off I can finally stop using 3rd party firewalls to avoid the forced reboots! Revolutionary on Windows part. Meanwhile on Linux. They already know the assignment. (generally)

foggy , to technology in Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot

Everyone wants this.

BroBot9000 , (edited ) to technology in Microsoft will let users uninstall Edge, Bing, and disable ads on Windows 11 as it complies with the Digital Markets Act
@BroBot9000@lemmy.world avatar

ABOUT FUCKING TIME. Take edge and shove it so far up your data tracking sphincter of a face hole.

Can we please get these laws on a global level.

gravitas_deficiency ,

I’m not disagreeing, but what entity would enforce those global laws?

brsrklf ,

La Haye International Court of Justice, of course.

gravitas_deficiency ,

And what happens when the country in question is one that doesn’t care that much about the ICC, and responds “make me”?

To wit: The United States has famously refused to subordinate itself to the ICC

BroBot9000 ,
@BroBot9000@lemmy.world avatar

Same way laws are enforced now? Each country passing it and the companies needing to comply to continue operations.

Why are they force to comply right now if the laws don’t work?

gravitas_deficiency ,

You’re missing the point.

The ICC only has power in countries that let them have power. If a given country doesn’t feel like doing that, the ICC has precisely zero recourse or ability to enforce.

What should citizens in countries like that (which may or may not be dictatorships, single-party states, theocracies, or some other restrictive, un-democratic, and/or xenophobic form of government) do?

BroBot9000 ,
@BroBot9000@lemmy.world avatar

Yes and I’m saying each country should implement it themselves so that we can reach global saturation. That is what I meant in my original response to op.

You are taking what I said out of proportion. Obviously we need Superman to enforce a global ruling hand over mankind.

Setarkus ,

I was about to say that I’d prefer alien overlords but based on Superman’s origin, he’s got my vote

Sabata11792 ,
@Sabata11792@kbin.social avatar

I vote for angry mob with convenient access to an active volcano.

AlwaysNowNeverNotMe ,
@AlwaysNowNeverNotMe@kbin.social avatar

Who needs a volcano when woodchippers can park right in your driveway.

Remember to load them feet first kids!

RojoSanIchiban ,

*jots down ‘load kids feet first into chipper’

Wait, is Microsoft violating child labor laws, too!?

AlwaysNowNeverNotMe ,
@AlwaysNowNeverNotMe@kbin.social avatar

Well, your heart's in the right place.

CIA_chatbot ,

And apparently the kids feet are in the right place too!

Imgonnatrythis ,

Space force?

BestBouclettes ,

Well they’ll probably reinstall it with every update anyway.

BroBot9000 ,
@BroBot9000@lemmy.world avatar

That is easy enough to block or deal with.

At least there’s the option to remove it at all that the non tech people can now easily access.

Imgonnatrythis ,

I can’t wait to see what this breaks and how the fix is to reinstall edge for all kinds of mundane issues.

Buddahriffic ,

Turns out edge is what renders the entire UI and uninstalling it leaves you at the console. Oh and you can’t access files because the file system is an http server accessed via edge. But it does come with QBASIC, so there’s that.

Honytawk ,

… then disable the update …

BestBouclettes ,

Not really possible anymore, Microsoft has been forcing updates since Windows 10.

maynarkh ,

They would get massive fines if they tried that.

Diplomjodler ,

Nope. But hey look, the Democrats are coming to take your guns!

Goodie ,

If I have to keep a chromium browser around, in addition to Firefox, I’d rather edge than mainline Chrome.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

That’s a false dichotomy. There’s no shortage of Chromium browsers that are significantly better than both.

smort ,
@smort@lemmy.world avatar

Suggestions? Preferably for both Windows and Mac

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Not sure which ones are compatible with Mac. Brave is my choice but there’s also Vivaldi and several flavors of Opera.

Honytawk ,

All Mac browsers are just Safari anyway

smort ,
@smort@lemmy.world avatar

You might be thinking of iOS browsers? Mac browsers use a variety of engines

_pete_ ,

Arc is weird but pretty good once you get used to it.

DuckDuckGo is good if you want a minimal browser and don’t really care about extensions

Brave is OK if you want a slightly more private version of Chrome

Honestly though, just use Firefox.

Goodie ,

Brave seems like a superb option.

Opera seems like a reasonable option, I guess, but I’m not sure if it has the market share to actually be seen and controversial if there was something to be controversial about.

DigitalBits ,

I’m not sure I would. Edge is trash, it keeps shoving the AI bullshit, all the MSN news stuff, ads for cheaper shopping, all in your face when you first start up. While you can turn it off, it gets annoying doing that every time you reinstall or spin up a new VM. Chrome, for all its faults, is a lot less annoying freshly installed.

jballs ,
@jballs@sh.itjust.works avatar

I appreciate your sense of relief, but don’t share it. This isn’t the first time Microsoft has been ordered to stop pushing its stuff (remember Internet Explorer?) and I’m sure it won’t be the last.

donuts , to technology in Microsoft will let users uninstall Edge, Bing, and disable ads on Windows 11 as it complies with the Digital Markets Act
@donuts@kbin.social avatar

I'm a Linux guy and I don't really care about Windows, but I'm glad to see this happening and every day I thank Europe for being the main entity fighting for regulation of big tech monopolies, because America is really failing.

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

America is getting paid to do it.
Maybe the FCC is still resisting for now.

abhibeckert ,

The FCC doesn’t have the legal authority to do anything like this.

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Not sure anymore. Maybe both I guess

That’s what I was talking about: theverge.com/…/fcc-anti-digital-discrimination-pa…

howler ,

Its nuts that during the Obama admin, all anyone cared about was the threat of zero privacy. Now everyone in the US has surrendered to it, because our politicians have sold our digital privacy rights to the tech companies.

Contend6248 ,

If we had actual IT giants in Europe, this would look very different.

I’ve seen how the car industry in Germany only got a slap on the wrist and even got the chance to send out advertisement payed by the government.

I feel like the only reason stuff like this gets pushed so hard is because we try to break the current IT giants until we get our shit together. I’m glad that we do it, but i wouldn’t say we are better than anyone else.

isles ,

Thanks for the honest take, a lot of people get caught up in the idea that if an organization does something that aligns with them, they are good or doing it for the same reasons.

hubobes ,

I mean we have SAP but they are probably not affected by this law.

Minarble ,

SAP

All my homies hate SAP

thehatfox ,
@thehatfox@lemmy.world avatar

There is a lot of protectionism at the heart of the EU. They are quite happy to heavily regulate Big Tech when it’s not based in their own market. Unfortunately they don’t have quite the same passion for nurturing the European tech industry as much as stifling the foreign ones.

They are it purely fighting these fights for the greater good, or they wouldn’t also be pushing things like the recent browser certificate debacle.

Lev_Astov ,
@Lev_Astov@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah because dieselgate was a travesty and all companies have a moral obligation to find ways around the idiocy of the US EPA as they actively make our cars more harmful to the environment by writing poorly thought out rules that encourage larger vehicles as well as completely failing to understand how to calculate diesel emissions for vehicles in a sensible manner.

Honytawk ,

Nah, it still would be much harder.

Because the EU exists out of many different countries with each their own government.

To lobby something through you have to bribe the majority of them, instead of just one.

Treczoks ,

I wonder if Windows in Non-EU areas does not have this kind of choice.

Well, does not matter, I use Linux, too.

morrowind OP ,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

California is doing okay, all things considered

Cold_Brew_Enema ,

How do you know someone uses Linux?

Don’t worry they’ll tell you

ekky43 ,

Hey hey hey, don’t just go around generalizing. Not all Linux users are like that (but I am, and I use arch BTW).

Like I’m sure we’re bound to find at least ONE Linux user who doesn’t tell.

trolololol ,

That would be mee

Opsi

F04118F ,

I use Linux (one that’s based on Arch btw) Make one guess at:

  • my diet
  • what I think is the best text editor

Seriously, how am I supposed to keep quiet when I find a clearly superior choice? Especially when most people feel a psychological barrier to trying it, that turns out to be not nearly as big as the adcantages.

Karyoplasma ,

at least meat-reduced diet

vim

F04118F ,

Exactly! I use neovim as a full IDE (got started quickly using the nvchad template). And I think you know which “at least meat-reduced” diet is most associated with evangelizing ;)

lntl ,

diet: coffee

editor: vim

:wq

F04118F ,

Points for the editor, but weirdly enough, not a lot of coffee (<1 per day) and I didn’t drink coffee at all before a few weeks ago.

btaf45 ,

what I think is the best text editor

ed?

IAm_A_Complete_Idiot ,

As a Linux user (and ex arch user btw), I’m deeply offended.

pete_the_cat ,

This apparently only applies to Europe, say least for now.

Cannacheques ,

Wait for it. Slow roll outs

Karyoplasma ,

EU is very much a mixed bag. On the one hand, they do this, on the other hand, they tried to ban P2P encryption and microtargetted religious and elderly in resisting countries, feeding them the classic “it’s for the children’s safety” lies.

miss_brainfart ,
@miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml avatar

Though we have to remind ourselves that it’s mainly the EU Commission who does this.

The Supreme Court spoke out against it from the very beginning, the Parliament voted against it, it’s really only the Commission who doesn’t want to understand that EU law applies to them, too.

Quite a few positions in there that need to be held by new people who understand the damn law.

maynarkh ,

they tried to ban P2P encryption

They recently enshrined it as an unalienable human right as a world first.

Cliffmode2000 ,

America is a huge corporation.

lntl ,

America empowers these bozos

s_s ,

I’m one illness or accident from being financially ruined, what do you really expect me to do about it?

Honytawk ,

Start a revolution.

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