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timesofisrael.com

IndustryStandard , to worldnews in Israel says WHO ‘colluding’ with Hamas by ignoring ‘terrorist use’ of Gaza hospitals

Israel about to confirm that Hamas has their headquarters underneath wherever the WHO building is.

nekandro OP , to worldnews in In deadliest incident of Gaza combat, 29 IDF soldiers killed as buildings collapse in blast

Explosion possibly caused by RPG attack as IDF prepared structures for demolition using explosives, with nearby tank hit by a missile; death toll in ground op reaches 219

PhlubbaDubba , to world in Hamas refuses Russia’s request to release its dual citizens from captivity in Gaza

What are they even hoping to get out of keeping the hostages anymore? At this point it looks like Israel is quietly trying to move to acting as though they’re already dead anyways.

idoubledo ,

World peace

PhlubbaDubba ,

Breaking, Hamas leaders announce cover of “we are the world”

NoneOfUrBusiness ,

What are they even hoping to get out of keeping the hostages anymore?

They won't get anything from handing them over, so when everything is over it might get Gaza a few more kilometers of land.

donuts ,
@donuts@kbin.social avatar

They won't get anything from handing them over

I guess Allah doesn't reward people just for doing the right thing then?

NoneOfUrBusiness ,

Throwing away all your leverage in war isn't "the right thing".

donuts , (edited )
@donuts@kbin.social avatar

Holding civilians hostage for 3 months isn't "war", it's an act of terrorism and a war crime.

Edit: I see I struck a nerve with that one.

NoneOfUrBusiness ,

It is since Israel made hostages one of the few ways Palestinians can actually do anything to improve their lives.

donuts , (edited )
@donuts@kbin.social avatar

hostages one of the few ways Palestinians can actually do anything to improve their lives

Genuine question, how has Hamas taking hundreds of innocent people hostage on October 7th improved the situation in Gaza or Israel in any way? Whose life is better today than it was a couple of months ago as a result?

International humanitarian law prohibits taking and executing hostages. Such acts are considered war crimes (GCI–IV Common Art. 3; GCIV Arts. 34, 147; API Art. 75) and can be tried before any national court, under the principle of universal jurisdiction.

The Convention defines a hostage taker as “any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure or to continue to detain another person (‘hostage’) in order to compel a third party, namely a State, an international inter-governmental organization, a natural or juridical person, or a group of persons, to do or to abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the hostage, commits the offence of taking hostages (‘hostage taking’)” (Art. 1 of Hostage Convention).

The Convention further specifies that not only those who commit such an act but also any person who attempts to commit or who participates as an accomplice in such an act or attempt is accountable and must be punished.

At any rate, regardless of whether you feel Hamas' jihad is justified or not (it isn't, in fact), hostage taking is an international war crime. The Geneva Convention is the bare minimum standard on this, and as such our opinions and political leanings are irrelevant.

The bare minimum Hamas can do now is to release the remaining hostages and surrender themselves to the IDF to stand trial, so that the innocent people of Gaza can start slowly putting their lives back together.

NoneOfUrBusiness ,

Genuine question, how has Hamas taking hundreds of innocent people hostage on October 7th improved the situation in Gaza or Israel in any way? Whose life is better today than it was a couple of months ago as a result?

Nobody's but when the war ends the number of hostages Hamas has will be an important factor in just how fucked Gaza will be.

The bare minimum Hamas can do now is to release the remaining hostages and surrender themselves to the IDF to stand trial, so that the innocent people of Gaza can start slowly putting their lives back together.

Yep, just showed your true colors. In that case Israel should also be surrendering its leadership and soldiers to stand trial in the Hague for genocide (or at the very least collective punishment).

Israel (specifically Netanyahu) has repeatedly stated they want security control of Palestine "from the river to the sea". Nothing good is gonna come out of the Gazan resistance surrendering.

donuts , (edited )
@donuts@kbin.social avatar

Nobody's but when the war ends the number of hostages Hamas has will be an important factor in just how fucked Gaza will be.

How so, and what's the endgame here? Keep as many innocent civilians hostage in perpetuity?

Here you are admitting that Hamas' actions have benefited literally "nobody" thus far, and at the same time you're suggesting that they keep doing what they're currently doing (something which, as we've already established, is a war crime) because it will "be an important factor" in the future, in some very abstract and vague way?

As the saying goes "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results."

Yep, just showed your true colors.

Not sure what this ad hominem is supposed to suggest, but it's weak either way. 🤷

In that case Israel should also be surrendering its leadership and soldiers to stand trial in the Hague for genocide (or at the very least collective punishment).

I agree that Israel's actions over the last few months should be put under just as much scrutiny as Hamas', and in fact, they are. https://apnews.com/article/genocide-israel-palestinians-gaza-court-fbd7fe4af10b542a1a4e2c7563029bfb

No Western country has declared support for South Africa’s allegations against Israel. The U.S., a close Israel ally, has rejected them as unfounded, the U.K. has called them unjustified, and Germany said it “explicitly rejects” them.

China and Russia have said little about one of the most momentous cases to come before an international court. The European Union also hasn’t commented.

So far there doesn't seem to be much of a argument that anything that Israel has done up until now rises to the level of a war crime, while as I shared above, the Geneva Convention is explicit that terrorist hostage-taking of innocent civilians is, on its face, a war crime. If Israel is proven to have done things that are so blatantly war crimes, they should be held accountable for those things. It's the only reasonable position to take, frankly.

As always, if you find yourself arguing against the Geneva Convention you might want to reexamine the ethics and soundness of your position.

Israel (specifically Netanyahu) has repeatedly stated they want security control of Palestine "from the river to the sea".

Hamas have also repeatedly stated, including in their 1988 founding charter, that the goal of their jihad is the complete destruction of Israel and genocide of Jewish people in the Levant.

Neither Netenyahu nor Hamas believe in a peaceful two-state solution in which Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs can live together peacefully. If I had my way they'd both be totally stripped of power.

Marin_Rider ,

if your leverage is holding innocent people captive, maybe you aren’t the good guys?

HobbitFoot ,

The hostages are something of value to someone, even if that value is almost nothing to the major players.

And it isn’t like Israel is quietly trying to act as if there aren’t hostages any more, they’ve been acting like it since near the beginning of this war, which I feel caught Hamas by surprise.

AshMan85 , to world in Germany says will intervene at The Hague on Israel’s behalf, blasts genocide charge

Genocidal groups stick together

eestileib , to world in Netanyahu: Let me be clear — Israel has no intention of displacing Gaza’s population

BULL

SHIT

ghostdoggtv , to news in Netanyahu: Let me be clear — Israel has no intention of displacing Gaza’s population

This is the most spectacular lie I’ve ever heard in my life.

Szymon , (edited ) to world in Netanyahu reportedly slams cabinet meeting leaks, seeks polygraphs for attendees

Kinda looks like a dictator grasping at the straws of power.

If it walks like a duck, eats like a duck, quacks like a duck…

tacosanonymous ,

… rapes and pillages like a duck…

oDDmON , to world in 42 survivors of the Nova rave massacre sue defense establishment for negligence

Good luck and godspeed, may you be successful.

snek , to world in Jewish and Arab volunteers help Arab Israeli farmers suffering from labor shortage amid war in Gaza
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Palestinian* volunteers.

djquadratic ,
@djquadratic@kbin.social avatar

And non Palestinians? What are you on about here

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

What I was referring to is how Israeli papers, especially ToI, refers to Palestinians (Palestinian citizens of Israel or otherwise) as “Arabs” as a form of cultural erasure.

Judging from the downvotes I got, it seems this was not as widely known as I’d assumed.

djquadratic ,
@djquadratic@kbin.social avatar

Actually there are a good number of Arab Israelis who are not of Palestinian origin. It’s a more encompassing term. Plus from what I know Times of Israel is left leaning - so you might be barking up the wrong tree here.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, there are many Arab Israelis, but there are many more “of Palestinian origin”.

I seriously doubt ToI are trying to be “encompassing”… Never heard anyone describe them as “left leaning”. I would personally describe them as a “state tabloid”.

Marsupial ,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

After having a look, that’s not left leaning.

Centrist at best and centrism is basically just right wing anyway.

i_have_no_enemies OP ,

anyone that does not agree with my side is right wing

Marsupial ,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

Yeah anything that’s not on the left is on the right. That’s kinda how it works.

corsicanguppy , to world in Surveillance footage shows Hamas bringing hostages into Shifa Hospital on Oct. 7

Yeah . Because Hamas apparently were treating prisoners humanely.

I can see why humane treatment of prisoners and outsiders can seem crazy to some countries, but it is a rule of war.

Aw hell, just add it to the list of ignored rules.

jimbolauski ,

deleted_by_author

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  • Strawberry ,

    So then they shouldn’t be given medical care?

    jimbolauski ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • Threeme2189 ,

    Anything to paint Hamas as the good guys… It boggles the mind.

    corsicanguppy ,

    … who are then taken … say it with me … prisoner.

    Yeah, to us they’re hostages, sure. But if every citizen of the other nation happens to be a reservist after their gap year of service, they’re unarmed ‘enemy’ soldiers on extended leave.

    I’m sure the answer is somewhere in the middle and can’t be so simply decided on the outside by people who sleep soundly at night.

    tsonfeir , to world in Norway says Israel response to Hamas attack disproportionate
    @tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

    Eye for an eye for an eye for an eye.

    scottmeme ,

    That’s it, no more eyes for anyone

    tsonfeir ,
    @tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

    They went blind long ago 😞

    HootinNHollerin ,
    @HootinNHollerin@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Religion will do that to ya

    dingleberry ,

    A hundred eyes for one eye and your enemies will run out of eyes before you.

    tsonfeir ,
    @tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

    Aye

    HootinNHollerin ,
    @HootinNHollerin@sh.itjust.works avatar

    There’s an onion news parody video from the future and they show the Israeli - Palestinian conflict and it’s just 2 guys left fighting over a stray cat they both claim youtu.be/iKC21wDarBo?si=GKs9RdTDMk-p0lZQ

    tsonfeir ,
    @tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

    Wow, that’s…. So accurate. I’m beginning to think ONN can really predict the future.

    HootinNHollerin , (edited )
    @HootinNHollerin@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I lost it with Gay Texas and the stray cat! Oh man it’s genius, albeit dark

    One of those videos that you pick up more and more detail with each watch

    Need more episodes

    YoBuckStopsHere , to world in IDF presents evidence misfired Gazan rocket caused hospital blast, slams Hamas ‘lies’
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    The firey blast is from spent rocket fuel. Bombs don’t react like that. This was 100% a hamas rocket.

    NoneOfUrBusiness ,

    Uh... Hamas rockets (well Islamic Jihad rockets but same difference) don't have the firepower to cause this kind of destruction.

    YoBuckStopsHere ,
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes they do, easily.

    NoneOfUrBusiness ,

    How so? Have you seen the building?

    Wilshire OP ,
    @Wilshire@lemmy.world avatar

    The building wasn’t even hit, it was the parking lot. Everything that was repeated by the media was made up by Hamas.

    files.catbox.moe/9n76yx.mp4

    NoneOfUrBusiness ,

    Okay that's fair enough for now, but then how did so many people die?

    Wilshire OP ,
    @Wilshire@lemmy.world avatar

    So far there’s no evidence that “hundreds” were killed, over 100 perhaps, but not 500.

    HuddaBudda ,
    @HuddaBudda@kbin.social avatar

    Could be from the petroleum from the cars. It looks like the missile hit right outside the parking lot. Most of the cars are burned through too.

    Though I am not seeing images of a crater, and it looks like the hospital is still standing. If it was an airstrike, I would imagine there would be more physical damage. But that is just speculation of a air strike bombing run. I feel like there should be more rubble.

    They went as far as to inflate the number of casualties,” he said.

    Estimates given in a time of panic. But only a 200 casualty rate is fine. 201 and we'd have to send you off to the gulag.

    YoBuckStopsHere ,
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    Not the initial explosion, no.

    alvvayson , to world in Red Cross demands Hamas grant immediate access to hostages held in Gaza

    Is this fake news?

    In Gaza, the Red Crescent operates, not the Red Cross.

    And all I have seen from them is calls to stop the violence on civilians.

    piecat ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • alvvayson ,

    Uhhh. Yes it does. The logo is a switched version of the Swiss flag and the cross in the Swiss flag is a Christian cross, originating from the Holy Roman Empire.

    ericisshort ,

    Not as hilarious as this confidently incorrect sentence

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    The international organization is called the International Committee of the Red Cross. National Red Cross and Red Crescent groups are simply local subsidiaries, essentially.

    Please don't try to make clever gotchas if you don't even understand what you're talking about, and for anyone who upvoted this, please don't upvote something just because it seems vaguely clever and snarky.

    Gormadt ,
    @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Thanks for the clarification, I had no idea that there was more than the Red Cross let alone that they’re 2.

    laylawashere44 ,

    Theres actually another. The Red Crystal, used in countries that are neither Christian or Muslim, though it really only exists because IRCCM didn’t want another religious symbol, i.e. the Star of David, especially since Judaism is a tiny religion (Voodoo is 4 times larger for example). So they compromised with a crystal and let the Palestinian and Israeli chapters in. In Hindu majority India for example basically only the crescent and cross are used.

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    There actually is the Magen David Adom (basically a Red Star of David) in Israel, which is recognized by the International Committee of the Red Cross as the national aid society in Israel, though that didn't happen until 2006 precise because of the reasons you stated.

    jordanlund , (edited ) to world in White House: Biden has not seen or independently confirmed Hamas beheaded Israeli children
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    I urge caution on stories like this because a) it’s inflammatory, and b) I’m old enough to remember the “baby incubator” stories from Kuwait which were initially confirmed by Amnesty International, but then turned out to be complete bullshit.

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

    Edit Confirmed, it’s a bullshit story:

    “Israeli official says government cannot confirm babies were beheaded in Hamas attack”

    Source:

    www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/…/index.html

    “CNN has pored through hundreds of hours of media posted online attempting to corroborate accounts of atrocities committed by Hamas. In one video, which CNN determined to be authentic but has not been able to geolocate, an assailant attacks an injured man with a garden tool in an attempt to behead him. But CNN has not seen anything that would appear to confirm the claims of decapitated children.

    CNN also visited the ransacked ruins of Kfar Aza on Tuesday and saw no evidence of beheaded youths. Israeli officials have not released any photographs of the incident either.”

    JokeDeity , to news in Israeli death toll passes 600, another 2,048 injured

    Downvote me all you want, but what the fuck does anyone expect from a beaten and caged dog other than for it to lash out? If I was raised in Palistine I would probably feel the same way they do, completely lost and broken and that this is their only hope left to make a stance.

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