The United States has a base near Gaza, this would be the dumbest thing ever if it occurred. Israel would have the entire planet turn on it and this would lose all rights to a nation forever.
Why not allow them to pass and then arrest them at the border? Surely better than bombing random buildings that may or may not have Hamas fighters inside.
Israel doesn’t operate the Egypt side and Egypt wants to not be an active participant beyond maintaining the crossing. They especially don’t want to run a PoW camp.
Working with the IDF directly to transfer prisoners to them would probably start shit in Egypt Sisi doesn’t want to start as it would be seen as entering the war I guess. Iran backed Houthi rebels in Yemen are already doing War Crimes on Egyptian hospitals for their current stance.
Also allowing a war crime (using ambulances to transport fighters and/or arms) and defending it like this emboldens them to continue doing it to the detriment of civilians since they won’t face consequences.
Doing that would prompt Hamas to stop cooperating with allowing civilians to seek medical assistance outside of Gaza.
Literally every humanitarian thing Hamas permits it does so with the intention of funneling benefits to its own fighters and members.
It’s the same problem as African warlords intercepting and sitting on medical aid intended for impoverished villagers.
A system which perfectly excluded Hamas cronies and fighters from receiving the benefits is one which Hamas will begin targeting for attack because they would rather Palestinians die than be able to get aid through means outside of Hamas’ approval and exploitation
Egypt doesn’t want to deal with that. That’s actually why what were reticent at first to help and why neighboring Arab countries won’t take refugees. Radical militants have snuck in with Palestinian refugees before and caused civil wars. They even killed the King of Jordan in what was eventually called Black September.
I don’t actually care about votes it just shows how bitter some people are, and want to bury facts that conflict with whatever their entrenched position is to steer the conversation.
Believing there is a righteous cause side here (as in in Gaza) other than the actual civilians who don’t celebrate and materially support violence against other civilians is a fools errand. Also fuck settlers in the west bank and Netanyahu im not even touching that with a ten foot pole it’s just bad.
Unfortunately the situation had deteriorated to the point that Hamas is actively hurting their own people’s chances at a peaceful life directly. It’s just a tragedy.
Edit: lmfao at the salty loser who went through the entire comment history on this account and down voted every comment. That’s all you can do, along with raging online, you aren’t in the Levant. You’re not from there. We don’t care about your opinions.
I think the best thing to hope for is the complete removal of the governmental apparatus of Hamas and a 20 year (1+ generation) re-education campaign to “de-nazify” the civilian population. Japan and Germany are now staunch US allies despite a similar level of bombing and destruction. This should be coupled with extensive infrastructure build up to improve the life of the civilians in Gaza.
The first step there is unfortunately rooting out the governmental apparatus of the region…
@LaLiLuLuCo@YoBuckStopsHere Are you delusional? Did you have any historical context for what you just said? Israel is an apartheid state, and they were that before they started the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. You can't propaganda your way out of reality
I’m from the area. Family been there for 500+ years.
If Israel is an apartheid state so is the US, Canada, and every other Arab nation that allows cross borders workers under shit conditions. It’s especially bad in the gulf states, they steal passports from immigrants and turn them into modern day slaves.
The shit in the west bank is indeed bad and a new government needs to prosecute to the fullest extent anyone participating.
I’ve lived through this conflict my entire life.
When Black September happened the Jordanian army actually Indiscriminately shelled the Palestinian refugee camps killing so so many.
Edit: It’s ok I know all the keyboard warriors from the west only want to hear from “the right Palestinians”. I have stuff my dad gave me from the 1700s Ottoman Empire before he died. His grandfather got murdered for not being down with the cause of Arab nationalism post ww1 when they started killing the local jews and dissenters, not the European zionists, the people who were local community leaders for generations.
israel is an apartheid state. so is the usa, but not for the reason you’re suggesting. the people you’re talking about can return to a sovereign nation with borders and taxes and armies. the subjugated indigenous people are relegated to open air prisons just like the palestinians are, though.
I popped off at the now removed comment under my other reply so this isn’t directed at you, but thought I would repost it so other people could see it. It is incredibly demeaning, infantilizing, and insulting how westerners and lefties from the rest of the global south twist this conflict and the historical context around it. My mother is actually an Afro-Cuban refugee with a family with many members who fled the Castro regime for reasons other than being white American business people. He would jail them by the thousand, rape, and beat them. My Pale-fucking-stinian dad married my mom because she had a child, my brother, who no one was going to care for. Meanwhile lefties defend the Castro and modern regime on the basis of it improving literacy and Healthcare. My now orphaned reply follows:
I’m from the area. Family been there for 500+ years.
If Israel is an apartheid state so is the US, Canada, and every other Arab nation that allows cross borders workers under shit conditions. It’s especially bad in the gulf states, they steal passports from immigrants and turn them into modern day slaves.
The shit in the west bank is indeed bad and a new government needs to prosecute to the fullest extent anyone participating.
I’ve lived through this conflict my entire life.
When Black September happened the Jordanian army actually Indiscriminately shelled the Palestinian refugee camps killing so so many.
It’s ok I know all the keyboard warriors from the west only want to hear from “the right Palestinians”. I have stuff my dad gave me from the 1700s Ottoman Empire before he died. His grandfather got murdered for not being down with the cause of Arab nationalism post ww1 when they started killing the local jews and dissenters, not the European zionists, the people who were local community leaders for generations.
I’m sorry you and your family went through this. But just because Arab nationalists were not good people in a lot of situation doesn’t really have much bearing on the current reality. Whether you like the Fidayieen or not doesn’t make your views on this digestible. The one honest position you can and should now is to be opposed to Israeli oppression because you understand what it’s like to live under an oppressed system.
Edit: and yeah I will continue you downvote you and disagree because despite your personal story, your opinions honestly suck and sometimes look like they are taken straight from IDF propaganda which everyone has lots trust in.
You are being downvoted because this isn’t an excuse to kill civilians either. Some military faction smugglers foods? Well fuck me sideways I’d never have guessed… Now let’s turn our eyes back towards Israel and the genocide it wants to commit.
Right now there’s videos being shared on Arabic news of Hamas gunning down their own people in the Evac corridor. The IDF is trying to clear the actual genocidal religious nut jobs out under fire. To save civilian lives.
Do I need to also remind you Hamas uses child soldiers? That half the dead kids in the 2019 protests were indoctrinated and martyring themselves?
That their fucking leaders called for my brother and sister’s blood to flow?
The IDF has been restrained and you are all blind. You don’t live there. You never will. Go read about the bombings of Germany and Japan and come back to me.
Whatever Hamas does, the way Israel responds is unacceptable. It shoots through 50 babies to get to one Hamas fighter. This isn’t self defence. This is using self defence to kill babies.
There are thousands of videos we have of Israel committing genocide in Gaza in the name of fighting Hamas. This is the pressing issue now.
Share the link to the video of Hamas shooting people down the corridor, would you? Because according to Arab media no one went through and people decided not to take that road because they don’t trust Israel because Israel keeps bombing areas it declared safe. .
We don’t have any evidence that Qassam brigades or other factions do this. What we have is tens of reports confirming Israel does it again and again and again.
Link specifically to some that support your claim? You made the claim, you support it.
You mentioned it happened in this thread. Show me please? You also said it’s in lemmy in general, honestly please share some evidence or take your statement elsewhere where people will take you on face value.
This sounds like when pics emerged of American troops pointing finger-guns at the genitals of Muslim men in potato sacks on baskets.
Holy shit, I can’t find the Gitmo pics of the lady doing fingerguns at their junks. I’m sure I could if I spent enough time, but 4-5 searches didn’t get their. That’s even more disturbing. This was a huge issue.
Torture is torture, no matter if those in Iraq were civilians, guerilleros, militias or regular armed forces. It does not change a thing about the crime.
Makes no difference. If torturing enemy combatants was acceptable, there would be no Geneva conventions. The moment they are captured and seize to actively take part in the conflict, they are protected from further harm.
Nobody is arguing that it is more or less evil. The militant POW may face their own trials after the war, where a punishment is decided. But while they are a POW, they are unable to cause any damages. So they are also not allowed to be tortured.
You will find that the actual laws of the Geneva Conventions only protect signatories and those that agreed to abide by the rules, which Hamas and any terrorist organization by definition does not. Rather specifically does not.
But, as mentioned, irrelevant to the civilians in question as they are protected.
Random terrorists, though? Legally they can be shot and dumped in the nearest ditch.
Even I, who think the Palestinian leadership is full of shit and has been full of shit since before 1948, and think that using meat shields to protect military assets is the war crime, and that the civilian deaths that are occurring in the destruction of said tunnels are the foreseeable consequences of the aforementioned war crime, WILDLY AND ADAMANTLY DISAGREE WITH YOU. What my government did in Gitmo, The fact that there was a prison at all at Gitmo, is a shitstain on American honor. What these individuals in the IDF are doing, or are allowing fucking nut bag whacko settlers to do, is a shit stain on the reputation of Israel.
No no no you don’t get it. We don’t torture prisoners of war, that would be wrong. We may have subjected an enemy combatant to enhanced interrogation including intimate humiliation until the combatant achieved cessation of vitality, but that’s different because I want it to be.
Yes, the Capitalist are burying reports of their crimes. Several times I have searched for articles documenting their behavior only to find it’s been deleted.
Dude it's even got a VERY LENGTHY Wikipedia page. It's not being very well hidden apparently.
Or the torture in Abu Ghraib prison. But don’t worry, the perpetrators got severely punished by being dishonorably discharged from the US Army. Then two of them married each other.
Edit: Looks like you are already referring to the Abu Ghraib tortures.
Tongue-in-cheek to illustrate the absurdity of the situation. They permanently damaged others’ lives and went on without repercussions other than a slap on the wrist.
Reminder that the West Bank is under Israeli occupation against international law (UN resolutions 446, 452, 465, 471, 476 (not an exhaustive list); the Venice Declaration) since 1967. The only countries to deny illegality are: Israel (and the US if you believe Donald Trump lol). This is an exhaustive list.
Literally every violent conflict is filled wth abuses on all sides.
Having mercifully never been in a war, I don’t know how it feels. But it’s easy to see how individual soldiers just snap, and do completely unhinged shit.
For example we all agree the Nazis and Imperial Japanese were despicable. Yet learning about how Allied soldiers would execute prisoners, extract body parts (teeth, ears) as trophies, and so on, really brought home to me how even the most “necessary” wars, even in self-defense, are grotesque perversions of human nature.
This explanation sounds too flimsy to believe. Seems more like a cover story after the fact for the insane bombing of hospitals and a caravan of ambulances within a clear pattern of overall genocide.
while considered a war crime those crimes only ever apply in some weird optic bullshit way like nobody gets punished for this shit at all so honestly I don’t really care that they do this. I care more it takes from civilians but still feel Israel forces these tactics.
Meanwhile Israel is using WP weapons and nobody seems to respond to that.
This conflict is war crimes galore but one of these combatants has far more resources than the other. That power imbalance should be considered
WP is allowed for artillery range finding and is the US procedure as well.
That’s what’s it’s been used for. In Lebanon most of the wounded civilians got sent home the same day because Hezbollah doesn’t do the human shield shit to the same genocidal intent.
The Rome treaty you are thinking of Israel is not a party to BTW. Same as the USA.
Technically Hamas is the government of Palestine, albeit no election for many years, what defines soldier vs terrorist if the terrorists are working for the government?
Israel doesn’t operate the Egypt side and Egypt wants to not be an active participant beyond maintaining the crossing. They especially don’t want to run a PoW camp.
Working with the IDF directly to transfer prisoners to them would probably start shit in Egypt Sisi doesn’t want to start as it would be seen as entering the war I guess. Iran backed Houthi rebels in Yemen are already doing War Crimes on Egyptian hospitals for their current stance.
Also allowing a war crime (using ambulances to transport fighters and/or arms) and defending it like this emboldens them to continue doing it to the detriment of civilians since they won’t face consequences.
Also trying to smuggle in military supplies in humanitarian aid:
Meanwhile, two senior Israeli officials told The Times of Israel that Israeli inspectors earlier this week uncovered several oxygen concentrators meant to aerate the tunnels operated by terror organizations in Gaza.
“These weren’t for use in the hospitals, but below them. That’s why they were smuggled among boxes of cookies,” one of the senior Israeli officials said, adding that the entire truck in which the oxygen concentrators were found was barred from entering Gaza.
The Israeli source was trying to claim these have no medical use but a quick Google search reveals that indeed they are mostly used for medical reasons and can be found in hospitals or at the homes of patients.
“The IDF has investigated ourselves, and we have found we have done nothing wrong.”
You have everyday Israelis posting racist tiktoks making fun of Palestinian deaths, it was a given that if you take those same civilians and give them guns the abusive behavior would just get worse.
“The IDF has investigated ourselves, and we have found we have done nothing wrong.”
From the article…
In response to the evidence, the IDF said that “the [soldiers’] conduct that emerges from these scenes is grave and inconsistent with the values of the IDF. The incidents are under investigation. The IDF commanders will hold talks with all the soldiers on the front. One soldier has been dismissed from reserve service.”
Not saying that the IDF is right on this one, at all, but all armies have aholes in them who do crap like this.
So they quick way out of reserve service is to just film yourself committing war crimes? That seems like a reward not a punishment. They should be in prison, not at home
timesofisrael.com
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