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timesofisrael.com

ghostdoggtv , to world in US tells Israel it will announce visa ban on violent settlers in coming weeks — officials

Stop giving them my money Congress cucks

idiocracy , to world in US tells Israel it will announce visa ban on violent settlers in coming weeks — officials

this is the distinction the world SHOULD do in general, but fails.

MataVatnik , to world in US tells Israel it will announce visa ban on violent settlers in coming weeks — officials
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

Fuking FINALLY

Im14abeer , to world in US tells Israel it will announce visa ban on violent settlers in coming weeks — officials

US hopes that the anonymity will serve as cover for not having actually banned anyone because they have no idea who to ban.

Stamau123 OP ,

That’s not how visa bans work ‘As a result, the Secretary of State may order U.S. consular officers at U.S. embassies and consulates in these countries to implement visa restrictions on certain categories of visa applicants. These sanctions may remain in place until the Secretary of Homeland Security notifies the Secretary of State that removal cooperation has improved to an acceptable level.’

The names of those sanctions have most likely already been uploaded to the US embassies and consulates in Israel, waiting to be denied if they go and try to get one.

SulaymanF ,

And unfortunately Biden grated visa waivers for Israel earlier this year. Nobody has to apply for a visa so there is no screening process or way to weed these bad actors out.

Stamau123 OP ,

May be linked to this development axios.com/…/israel-visa-waiver-palestinian-americ….

“A U.S. official said the Biden administration will give Israel some more time to work out a solution.

But the official stressed that if Israel doesn’t find a solution within weeks, the U.S. might have to suspend Israel’s visa waiver privileges.”

SulaymanF ,

Thanks for the update!

Now will Biden have the guts to suspend the program?

DarkGamer , to world in US tells Israel it will announce visa ban on violent settlers in coming weeks — officials
@DarkGamer@kbin.social avatar

That's great! Escalation shouldn't occur by non-state actors and hopefully this will act as a deterrent for civilian violence even if Bibi's administration is unwilling to punish them.

Stamau123 OP ,

Just a start tho, I don’t imagine the olive thieves or Hilltop Youth were planning many new york vacations, but it’s a step

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

From what I can tell some illegal settlers are American citizens

wheelie ,

Who needs a visa when you have a US passport.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Sure, but some of them might invite their shithead friends for a visit

ABCDE ,

The original ones were.

Stamau123 OP , to world in US tells Israel it will announce visa ban on violent settlers in coming weeks — officials

@altofaltception this is partly what I had envisioned, more eyes on recent settler violence due to the war leading to pressure to hopefully have them dealt with permanently.

downpunxx , to world in IDF says Hamas attacked troops as they opened Gaza evacuation corridor for civilians
@downpunxx@kbin.social avatar
steventhedev OP ,

Your comment looks blank. Is that a federation issue? Or is that a kbin/lemmy thing?

downpunxx ,
@downpunxx@kbin.social avatar
ShroOmeric , to world in IDF says Hamas attacked troops as they opened Gaza evacuation corridor for civilians

It takes an hell of an effort to believe anything from the IDF with amount of bullshit they told for decades.

QuarterSwede ,
@QuarterSwede@lemmy.world avatar

And at the same time it’s totally plausible, that’s what makes it dangerous. No one knows who to believe and no UN forces want to get killed trying to keep things as fair as possible.

Doorbook ,

“No one knows who to believe” the statement there is for a reason. Killing Journalist and targeting their families, cutting communication is the reason.

steventhedev , to world in Fatah official: Oct. 7 is part of our ‘defensive war’ against Israel, Hamas is ‘part of our political and social fabric’

At least now they admit it happened. Now to convince them that maybe intentionally targeting civilians, raping, and kidnapping people isn’t a good thing that should be celebrated.

Fat chance that will happen with the PLO as it is now. They figured out a long time ago that they get rich from not signing peace deals.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

The raping thing has no proof at all stop spouting IDF propaganda

Fitik ,
@Fitik@fedia.io avatar

What proof do you want for stuff like that?

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Any proof since israel made up every lie that they could. 40 beheaded babies remember?

Fitik ,
@Fitik@fedia.io avatar

They (officials) never claimed it, it was only 1 journalist who said it, Israel claimed that 40 babies have died some with their head missing and that's true.

Linkerbaan , (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

What is this insane lie? Not only did the israli officials claim it. They took it so far even JOE BIDEN claimed it. It was a blantant lie the IDF told everyone. Here’s evidence (see it’s not that hard to provide evidence!)

Babies and toddlers were found with “heads decapitated” in Kfar Aza,

A day AFTER this post CNN reporters started walking it back:

“Yesterday the Israeli Prime Minister’s office said that it had confirmed Hamas beheaded babies & children while we were live on the air. The Israeli government now says today it CANNOT confirm babies were beheaded. I needed to be more careful with my words and I am sorry.,” Sidner wrote Thursday on X.

Doorbook ,

If anything this IDF strategy of: lie about beheaded babies, lie about hostages being dead, lie about tunnels they built, lie about their people dying from IDF fires, will make it really tough to believe anything else they say and discredit any actual war crime happened in October 7.

If they stopped for a day to actually think, and used international pressure to stop hamas fundings and intelligence to actually solve and portect the people we wouldn’t be in the mess.

Yet they caught on their history of lies and make it really hard to believe some of the rape stories that came up.

In fact the more you dig up historical war crime commited by IDF you will see the stories of mass graves, and baby in oven, and underage kids, some are 6 and 7, being arrested and put in prison without any charges and other atrocious acts the world pertend not to happend.

interceder270 ,

“Lie and then call anyone the bad guy for when they ask for evidence.”

We’re seeing it in this very thread.

interceder270 ,

@gedaliyah said there was video evidence, so I’ll settle for that. He hasn’t shared it yet, though, despite getting very angry when someone said there was no proof.

Makes me dubious about there being any proof at all 🤷

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

Do you mean other than all the video, physical evidence, and victim testimony? You are a special kind of disgusting.

Linkerbaan , (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Yes those videos of rape right next to the 40 beheaded babies.

timesofisrael.com/police-start-building-oct-7-rap…

Oh wait it’s nothing! No videos no pictures. No evidence aside from someone that supposedly said they witnessed “Khamass raping errbody out there”.

The rape kits? “Don’t work since the bodies are completely burned from all the Hellfire missles the Apache helicopter friendly fired israelis with”. Blame it all on Khamass!

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

Take your chauvinist, murder fetishistic, terrorist apologia back to infowars. They let you deny murdered babies and attack rape victims with impunity over there.

Even better, get some help, go touch grass. You are sick and need contact with other real life humans.

Linkerbaan , (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Get off the IDF kool aid and show me some evidence that rape happened. So far I’m seeing zero evidence of any rape yet you keep blabbering about it.

interceder270 ,

I, too, am waiting for this ‘video evidence’ of rapes he’s so certain about that he’s willing to call someone “a special kind of disgusting” for claiming there’s no proof.

This video evidence should clear everything up for everyone, unless he was lying.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

I just wanted to say thanks for removing the personal attack that ended this post previously! It got reported and I WOULD have removed it, but you did the right thing and removed it yourself.

Quick reminder to not attack other users.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah since the other commenter above me decidated an entire paragraph to insults towards me (actually, the entire comment is just insulting me there is no substance) I did add an ad-hom but decided it would be better without attacking him personally so I edited it out.

Please don’t remove his comments though I’m waiting for him to respond with evidence.

interceder270 ,

Can’t you just share the ‘video evidence’ to prove him wrong?

You’re the one who said there was evidence, share it so we can all see without a doubt that you aren’t full of shit. The fact that you’re saying “there’s evidence” then throw a hissy-fit when pressed to show it tells me that there isn’t actually evidence and you’re lying through your teeth.

The easy way to prove me wrong would be to share your evidence. Only a fool would take the word of reddit/lemmy comments at face value.

Cethin ,

The burdon of proof lies with the one making claims. They aren’t making any claims. They are only asking for evidence. Would you say the same thing to people questioning the (fake) justifications of war the US used to invade Iraq?

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

WTF are you talking about? This is an internet forum, not a courtroom. I’m conveying facts that have been widely reported and verified by reputable international news agencies.

Articles, videos, testimony, etc. have already been provided here. If you believe that ALL the evidence presented here is somehow wrong, then feel free to give your reasoning and evidence point by point for all of the journalists, medical professionals, and world leaders being somehow wrong.

Or you can be like the other sick-minded people who have requested to personally see videos of women being raped.

interceder270 ,

Where’s the video and physical evidence of rape?

You are a special kind of disgusting.

Here he goes, trying to stifle legitimate discussion because “it’s so obvious nobody should even question what happened.”

Look in a mirror, buddy. You’re behaving just like people on /r/conservative.

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

The articles linked in this thread discuss the police, forensics experts, journalists, etc. Who have seen the bodies of women with genital injuries or mutilation. They have seen footage taken from the video the terrorists themselves took and videos from victims. They have testimony from victims. They have statements from the captured Hamas terrorists.

If your first reaction to hearing about a woman being raped is “show me the video or it didn’t happen,” then yes, you are a chauvinist and a sick person. Questioning women who are reporting rape is not “legitimate discussion.” It is victim shaming and empowering sexual assault.

haaretz.com/…/0000018b-b025-d3c1-a39b-bee5ef40000…

x.com/Jaquerie2/status/1712900092837994995?s=20

x.com/angryopinionatd/status/1712209065013580122?…

timesofisrael.com/footage-of-hamas-assault-on-civ…

haaretz.com/…/0000018b-f6bb-dafe-a18f-f7fb0a57000…

washingtonpost.com/…/israel-hamas-rape-sexual-vio…

timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-…

www.cnn.com/2023/11/17/world/…/index.html

factcheck.org/…/what-we-know-about-three-widespre…

bostonglobe.com/…/israeli-women-raped-hamas-attac…

jewishinsider.com/…/israeli-police-women-rape-sex…

newsweek.com/silence-international-bodies-over-ha…

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

A mountain of links and zero evidence!

Your first link has zero evidence (as do all your other links) just the generic “someone said they were gang raping, we don’t have any evidence though nor rape kits, just believe us”.

The second link is an edited video with someone that seems to talk in a Pashtun accent over it so I’m assuming that is a Taliban(?) video with random subtitles. Is that video even from this conflict? Your fact-check link says that there seems to be no real evidence, just oral allegations. And we know from the 40 beheaded babies how credible those are. All the women release by Hamas in the last few days don’t seem to be raped that’s for sure.

I’m not going to spend hours debunking every single lie you post. Can you just post a single link with evidence please thanks.

interceder270 , (edited )

So, all you have are testimonies from people who claim to have seen video evidence?

You haven’t actually seen the evidence yourself? People saying there is video evidence is not the same as there actually being video evidence.

Just say you have people’s testimonies, because that’s all there is.

Unless you can share the actual video evidence instead of just people saying it exists.

It’s funny watching how transparent propagandist tactics are with just a little nudge.

If your first reaction to hearing about a woman being raped is “show me the video or it didn’t happen,” then yes, you are a chauvinist and a sick person. Questioning women who are reporting rape is not “legitimate discussion.” It is victim shaming and empowering sexual assault.

There it is. We’re the bad guys for asking for evidence, he’s not the bad guy for making a grave claim without providing evidence to support it.

Then he lies about the evidence that he said exists and links to a bunch of nonsense as though it proves his point.

You’re the one who said there was video evidence. Why are you getting so mad when people ask you to share it? Because it doesn’t exist and you’re lying.

Want to prove me wrong? Don’t link to a bunch of testimonies claiming they’re videos. Show me the videos themselves. It only takes 1 link.

You can’t do that though because you’re lying. The only way to prove me wrong is to share the video evidence.

dangblingus , to world in Fatah official: Oct. 7 is part of our ‘defensive war’ against Israel, Hamas is ‘part of our political and social fabric’

Doing a whole lot of bombing hospitals and refugee camps for a defensive war.

anteaters , to world in Fatah official: Oct. 7 is part of our ‘defensive war’ against Israel, Hamas is ‘part of our political and social fabric’

Shows again that Israel’s reaction was completely appropriate.

TokenBoomer ,

15,000

anteaters ,

Regurgitating Hamas’ fantasy numbers is not remotely as impressive as you think it is. Makes you look like a complete tool, actually.

rambaroo ,

You mean the numbers that are widely accepted by independent parties? Nah, you’re the one who sounds like a tool.

anteaters ,

“independent parties” lol

interceder270 ,

You wouldn’t understand that because you’re loyal to your tribe.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Wanna hear a fantasy number? 1400.

TWeaK , to world in Fatah official: Oct. 7 is part of our ‘defensive war’ against Israel, Hamas is ‘part of our political and social fabric’

I thought Fatah and Hamas were against each other? Fatah certainly lost the vote in Gaza against them. This sounds like some sort of political rewriting of history.

JeffKerman1999 ,

I thought that Hamas killed all the Fatah leaders?

TWeaK ,

All the ones in Gaza maybe? The West Bank wasn’t under their control. I dunno though.

samokosik ,
@samokosik@lemmynsfw.com avatar

Only in gaza, yes

TWeaK ,

Yeah my reading of this was that the Fatah in the West Bank are now saying “We supported Hamas all along!”

samokosik ,
@samokosik@lemmynsfw.com avatar

I am also quite surprised that Fatah supports the party which some years ago tied Fatah members to cars and dragged them across streets.

Stamau123 OP , to world in Fatah official: Oct. 7 is part of our ‘defensive war’ against Israel, Hamas is ‘part of our political and social fabric’

Rajoub is the head of the Palestinian Football Association, Palestinian Olympic committee, and the Secretary General of the Fatah Central Committee

Hatsune_Miku , to world in Surveillance footage shows Hamas bringing hostages into Shifa Hospital on Oct. 7
@Hatsune_Miku@lemmy.world avatar

well this community suddenly became very quiet.

Argonne ,

Waiting on their bosses for the right propaganda response

blahsay ,

There’s a bunch of pro Palestinian accounts that all only post comments about the war and joined about the same time (not at Reddit API influx). The mods should ban clear propaganda accounts

Hatsune_Miku ,
@Hatsune_Miku@lemmy.world avatar

I think mods should ban any account that argues points without reputable sources to back their claims. The amount of “they bombed hospitals” without evidence is pretty staggering.

lolcatnip ,

Israel’s right wing is a bunch of genocidal monsters who are just as evil as Hamas but much better funded.

Happy now?

Argonne ,

At least you are now equating Hamas to Israel in terms of morality instead of glorifying them, so that’s progress

lolcatnip ,

I never have. My position hasn’t changed a bit.

Hatsune_Miku ,
@Hatsune_Miku@lemmy.world avatar

i didn’t know israel is beheading people with garden hoes :o

lolcatnip ,

No, they’re doing it with bombs. So much more civilized!

Aceticon ,

You think little children dying as their blood drains away with their limbs blown away, or their life slowly fadding as their bodies are crushed by the rubble of what moments ago was their home or being burn through till their internal organs fail in complete total panic by a piece of burning white phosporous whose fire they cannot stopped, from a round that hit their schoolyard, is any better?!

Is them being arabic-speaking muslims that makes their horrible deaths acceptable in your eyes, even while the deaths of jewish hebrew speaking children are not?!

It’s really hard to see any other reason than the most disgustingly extreme psychopatic racism for somebody to justify the horrible murder of children using the murder of other children by people whose only relation is being from the same ethnic group.

SCB ,

You think little children dying as their blood drains away with their limbs blown away, or their life slowly fadding as their bodies are crushed by the rubble of what moments ago was their home or being burn through till their internal organs fail in complete total panic by a piece of burning white phosporous whose fire they cannot stopped, from a round that hit their schoolyard, is any better?!

Yes. It is fucking weird that you don’t.

Aceticon ,

Well, at least you openly admit you think one kind of horrible deaths for children is better than a different kind.

That’s pretty honest for a sociopath.

SCB ,

Literally everyone thinks some kinds of deaths are better than others. Dying slowly and painfully due to someone’s maliciousness is generally considered among the worst.

You’re weird for trying to make this some sort of gotcha.

Aceticon ,

Literally only people very high in the sociopath end of the spectrum would think one gruesome kind of child murder justifies a different kind of gruesome child murder, to the point of using one to justify the other in an argument genuinelly believing other human beings will be swayed by that.

People in the normal human range within the sociopathy spectrum neither think “an eye for an eye” applies to the murdering of children - no matter the method used - nor think other people can be swayed to accept child murder by pointing out that child murders were commited by people only related to the former children by etnicity.

In fact normal people don’t even think one kind of child murder justifies the other kind of child murder even when the latter children have direct family relations to the murderers of the former.

You need to be quite the sociopath to merelly think somebody murdering children justifies killing their kids, and you need to be extremelly sociopathic to think somebody murdering children justifies killing kids of the same etnic group.

People whose psychological makeup is such that they trully believe child murder justifies child murder and, worse, that others think the same, need professional help, deseperatelly so.

SCB ,

Literally only people very high in the sociopath end of the spectrum would think one gruesome kind of child murder justifies a different kind of gruesome child murder,

A) this is quite incorrect

But more importantly

B) I never said anything justified anything

Perhaps engage with just a shred of intellectual honesty and good faith

Madison420 ,

Then what is the difference.

SCB ,

That question doesn’t make any sense.

Madison420 ,

It does. You’re saying one civilian death is different than another. So name that difference.

SCB , (edited )

Dying badly is worse than not dying badly

Would you rather die in hospice or by being fed to a wood chipper?

Shit’s not complex bro you’re just a crazy person

Madison420 ,

How exactly are they not dying “badly”.

Which one of those happened here.

Again eugenicist insults.

SCB ,

You didnt answer my question.

Madison420 ,

I don’t answer irrelevant hypotheticals.

SCB ,

It’s literally the topic of our discussion - whether all deaths are equal.

Madison420 ,

It’s not. The question was how is one civilian death worse than another, not “would I rather”. Keep up.

SCB ,

Yes, and some deaths are indeed worse than others, which is why you wouldn’t pick “wood chipper”

Madison420 ,

How exactly. What you prefer is your opinion, it’s not an objective standard. You feel one way is worse but a death is a death.

Also you don’t know what I would pick bud, you’re talking out your ass.

SCB ,

I’m pretty sure I know what you’d pick lol

Madison420 ,

And I’m pretty sure you don’t and also that it’s irrelevant given your options are hyperbole with one being almost benign and the other literally Fargo when those aren’t the options here nor are they what is happening in Gaza.

SCB ,

The chick in Fargo died before going in the wood chipper

The point is that yes some deaths suck worse than others. Enjoy your wood chipper, I guess? Seems crazy to me

Madison420 ,

It wasn’t a chick, it was Carl.

Cool, you made the definition so name the difference.

SCB ,

That second sentence doesn’t make any sense.

You’re kind of acting crazy.

Madison420 ,

It does, refer back to previous comments like a competent adult engaging in legitimate discussion.

Amusingly textbook gaslighting.

SCB ,

That’s not what gaslighting is.

Madison420 ,

It quite literally is, do you enjoy being wrong or are you simply repulsed by research.

SCB ,

Gaslighting is when you convince someone their stove is broken when it isn’t.

Madison420 ,

Or trying to convince someone you do not know that they are crazy so you can win an Internet argument.

It’s shitty gaslighting but still gaslighting bud.

SCB ,

See this is just what a crazy person would say.

Madison420 ,

Sounds like something an abusive asshole would say.

SCB ,

You should smile more.

Madison420 ,

Again actual gaslighting with misogyny and the assumption I’m female. Love it. Point blank your argument is so shitty you can’t defend it, not won’t but literally can’t.

Good luck with the douchebag routine, maybe a read a book instead of trying and failing to stroke your ego.

SCB ,

It’s not misogyny to point out that I don’t think you’re smiling.

Madison420 ,

It’s quite literally the most used misogynistic insult.

If you’re going to be an asshole at least be an honest asshole.

SCB ,

I don’t think that’s the most common misogynistic insult. That seems crazy.

Madison420 ,

What you think is irrelevant, reality differs. You seem like an asshole.

SCB ,

Maybe to a crazy person I guess

Madison420 ,

Maybe to an asshole I guess.

SCB ,

No I’m incredibly nice. You’re just cray-cray totes McGoats

Madison420 ,

No I’m totally sane. You’re just ass-holish forshizzle.

SCB ,

Your don’t write the R in "fo shizzle* and it’s 2 words.

Madison420 ,

Sounds like something a crazy person would say.

Also no, Snoop Dogg says it both ways but again basic research ain’t your strong suit.

SCB ,

Drop it like it’s hot.

Madison420 ,

You first dumb dumb, I’m still waiting for you to stand but your shitty argument.

SCB ,

But my shitty argument what?

Madison420 ,

Yes yes, my hand messes up because it’s going paralyzed, we went over this but at least this time your mocking something real and not inexpert opinion from an asshole.

SCB ,

Lmao high five

Madison420 ,

Way to poke fun at disability, you seem like a real gem of a person.

SCB ,

Have you ever heard of a Zen Koan?

Madison420 ,

Are you claiming to be Buddhist now? That would be hilarious.

SCB ,

I was planning on asking you, since this is a rare opportunity, “What’s the sound of one hand clapping?”

Madison420 ,

About the same as you jerking yourself off for the last 30 comments I would imagine.

SCB ,

Lol don’t be silly. It’s Thanksgiving! I’m not jerking off.

Madison420 ,

Don’t fuck the turkey either, I shouldn’t have to say that.

SCB ,

Nah I only fuck adult people who want me to fuck them. Wife and I are swingers so I get to be plenty flexible.

Madison420 ,

So you’re a virgin, gotcha.

SCB ,

No I have 3 children. 18/8/6.

A/s/l?

Madison420 ,

Oh I’m sure you play an interesting game of life, don’t eat the convertible.

SCB ,

I drive a Kia

Gets a lot of smiles per gallon

Madison420 ,

Didn’t know playskool made a Kia.

SCB ,

How fuckin cool would that be lol

Madison420 ,

A lot cooler than you.

You want to defend your argument now or just pay idiotic games?

SCB ,

I roll d20 on argument check. Result: 33 with modifiers.

Your move.

Madison420 ,

Nope still yours is your argument to shitty and inept to defend or are you just scared.

SCB ,

Too, not “to”

Madison420 ,

Yes yes, my comments have errors, you learn to type with your non dominant hand and see how well it works out.

That said you knew what I meant and you’re still refusing to stand by your shitty argument.

Why is crushed under a building worse than shot.

SCB ,

Because it’s a worse experience. This is not at all a hot take.

That you’ve limped your way through me fucking with you for two days over it is fucking embarrassing for you lol

Madison420 ,

Correct. So why are you arguing that Palestinians aren’t being tortured by proxy with mass civilian casualties?

You just admitted your argument is shit, you should review your comments bud.

Ta dah!

lemmy.world/comment/5476838

SCB ,

Yeah being murdered with a hoe is definitely worse.

I actually brought this up with my elderly father at Thanksgiving lol. He thought it was hilarious that you went so berserk over it, and we came up with some of my comments together.

It was actually a really sweet little moment. I’m thankful for you.

Madison420 ,

How so.

So you’re just as much of a sad shitty person in real life, neat brag. No one has gone berserk I’m persistent, someone is running away and it certainly isn’t me.

I imagine none of it actually happened so sure, whatever you need bud.

SCB ,

Lol it definitely happened. My wife’s favorite part was when I said you should smile more.

Thanks for your contribution to an awesome thanksgiving.

Madison420 ,

Back to your shitty argument so if the the person bombed is beheaded by explosive is that than equal to or greater than this theoretical hoe beheading.

SCB ,

Lesser than. It’s not the object, it’s the situation. Seriously, it’s so weird you don’t get this.

“Dying instantly is better than being slowly beheaded by a laughing terrorist” is just not a hot take dude. Quit being so weird lol

Madison420 , (edited )

It’s weird to me that you value one human life over another. How many lives is a hoe beheading worth? Two, three? Ten? Because we’re at about 10x as many civilians casualties in Gaza. How many until Israel breaks even?

Similarly death by building, or explosive dismemberment notoriously not fast or painless.

SCB ,

It’s weird to me that you value one human life over another

??? That’s not a thing weve ever discussed.

Madison420 ,

That’s quite literally what you’re doing right now, we’re actively discussing it. I’m bad at math but goddamn homie you’d figure the guy on the high horse could figure out 1+1=2.

SCB ,

Gonna need you to quote me on that one.

Madison420 ,

You want me to quote to you something that is two comments above this one? Egomaniacal and lazy, neat combo no wonder research is so difficult for you.

lemmy.world/comment/5553378

SCB ,

I never compared value of human life, but rather ranked methods of dying

Let me give you a hand - the entire argument you think you’re having is just something you made up in your head

Madison420 ,

lemmy.world/comment/5553378

Lesser than. It’s not the object, it’s the situation. Seriously, it’s so weird you don’t get this.

SCB ,

Yes. This has nothing to do with the value of human life.

Madison420 ,

It has to, your unwillingness to address the subject for as you say 2 days shows that much.

You’re a bigot, it took a holiday break but I’m glad we got to the truth eventually. Have a nice night buckaroo.

SCB ,

Lmao see there’s that crazy again

Madison420 ,

There’s that inability to defend you bigoted stance again and as of to prove my point you call me bigoted names.

Too easy babe.

SCB ,

Its not bigoted to think dying fast is better than dying slow.

Madison420 ,

Again those weren’t the options bud, the comment you responded to specifically says slow and painful. You gloss over that fact because… You’re a bigot.

You think little children dying as their blood drains away with their limbs blown away, or their life slowly fadding as their bodies are crushed by the rubble of what moments ago was their home or being burn through till their internal organs fail in complete total panic by a piece of burning white phosporous whose fire they cannot stopped, from a round that hit their schoolyard, is any better?!

SCB ,

That’s because it a dumb bit of hyperbole from a loon that doesn’t understand how human bodies function.

Edit: but even still, us disagreeing on which is a worse death is not at all a discussion about the value of the life being taken. Someone dies in both instances - the value of human life is not being discussed at all.

That you think it is being discussed, and went so insane about it, is embarrassing. As I said before.

Madison420 ,

Ah another “crazy” person, everyone you deal with seems to be crazy huh? It’s not that maybe you’re a bigot. It’s not hyperbole, those things have objectively happened in Gaza during the conflict, Israel doesn’t deny it why do you.

It absolutely is, you were given two horrific examples of death and chose one over the other that’s giving them values.

relative worth, utility, or importance.

Someone dies in both instances - the value of human life is not being discussed at all.

It absolutely is being discussed, you just don’t see it because to do so would mean accepting that gazans are people not terrorists.

Again, bigoted insults, I do enjoy how easy you’re making proving your bigotry. What’s next another joke about my disability?

SCB ,

It absolutely is, you were given two horrific examples of death and chose one over the other that’s giving them values.

Yes. Note that this has nothing to do with the value of the person

Also note that I have literally never typed the word “Gazan” here

Madison420 ,

It absolutely does the only difference between them is ethnicity.

You’re a bigot, at least be an honest bigot.

SCB ,

We never discussed the ethnicity of the dead people.

Madison420 ,

We did, its in the original comment by context, though if your reading comprehension is that poor it would certainly explain some things.

SCB ,

Your imagined context made you so angry that you are 2 days worth of mockery lmao

Madison420 ,
SCB ,

Yes. It is fucking weird that you think that’s not a better way to die.

Madison420 ,

There is no good way to die and even given equivalent examples you’ve chosen the Israeli over the gazan.

You’re a bigot, be an honest bigot. An ashamed Nazi is still a Nazi after all.

SCB ,

There are plenty of good ways to die. My daughter’s grandpa on her mom’s side got to choose how to pass and it was beautiful, surrounded by loved ones.

It would be great if we all got to make a choice and have it be easy.

Madison420 ,

That’s your opinion, it’s at best an ancedote.

Sure, it would be and some people get their fucking brains blown out their fucking body for being gazan and unable to escape.

Be an honest bigot, if you say Nazi shit people are going to assume your a Nazi.

Madison420 ,

It’s absolutely a discussion on the value of human life.

You’re a bigot, at least be an honest bigot. An ashamed Nazi is still a Nazi after all.

SCB ,

Only if you’re crazy

Madison420 ,

You’re a bigot, at least be an honest bigot. An ashamed Nazi is still a Nazi after all.

SCB ,

You’re not going to get the last word lol

Madison420 ,

You’re welcome to have it if you admit you’re a bigot.

You’re a bigot, at least be an honest bigot. An ashamed Nazi is still a Nazi after all.

SCB ,

I genuinely don’t think you’re as petty as me, nor does your life involve as much forced downtime as mine.

Madison420 ,

Sounds like we agree on something, bigots do tend to be very petty people. I imagine so, bud but that’s not a metric of who will speak last. There’s no timelimit on response bud.

You’re a bigot at least be an honest bigot. An ashamed Nazi is still a Nazi after all.

SCB ,

It’s not bigotry to get notifications on a Web site I visit anyway

Madison420 ,

It’s not, you are however a bigot.

You’re a bigot, at least be an honest bigot. An ashamed Nazi is still a Nazi after all.

SCB ,

I don’t think the evidence holds there, Mads.

Madison420 ,

You wouldn’t know evidence if it hit you in the face, clearly scrubby.

You’re a bigot, at least be an honest bigot. An ashamed Nazi is still a Nazi after all.

Madison420 ,

Yes yes, because things I can show objectively are in my head. You want to try that again but be logical and make sense? No no, what you did was assume that being crushed by a building is painless and not terror inducing because you don’t value Palestinian life given your comments thus far.

You were given a situation. Ie. Crushed slowly under a building or beheaded by hoe and decided one is more valuable than the other. Words matter, context matters, actions matter and all of yours point to a bigoted outlook which is why you seem to equate Palestinians as terrorists, not people.

SCB ,

Crushed slowly under a building or beheaded by hoe and decided one is more valuable than the other.

No one s less desirable

Madison420 ,

In the example given the faster death is actually beheading by hoe. Your bigoted views just gloss over what doesn’t fit your narrative.

SCB ,

That is definitely not accurate, but I admire you for having a diamond-edged hoe that has a sharp edge. That’s gotta make gardening a snap.

Madison420 ,

So you’re a believer in untermensch? Amusing conflict to casually bring that up for.

SCB ,

Dude be real lol

Madison420 ,

Ok then why do you believe one civilian dying a torturous death is different than any other?

SCB ,

Because I have a functioning brain.

Madison420 ,

That’s not an explanation bud that’s a very obvious very pathetic dodge. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say you won’t explain it because it’s almost certainly very bigoted.

SCB ,

No you’re just an insane person

Madison420 ,

Taking shots at the unwell, let’s bump that up to straight eugenicist.

SCB ,

Lmao

Madison420 ,

Not gunna defend your bullshit stance I take it?

SCB ,

Every single response you give is increasingly unhinged, so of course I’m going to respond. This is one of my favorite threads all week

Madison420 ,

Yes asking you to defend your position is “unhinged”.

SCB ,

You didn’t ask me to defend anything, and you are incapable of articulating my position.

You’re figuratively shouting absurd insults to try to get a rise out of me, but I just think they’re funny.

Madison420 ,

Survey says… Your full of shit.

lemmy.world/comment/5493243

Not only have I asked you to defend your bullshit point I’ve asked multiple times directly.

It’s not an absurd insult, calling someone insane is an insult. Saying your stance is bullshit is at best implying you’re an idiot.

SCB ,

It’s not an insult if it’s a descriptor. You’re an insane person.

Say more funny things!

Madison420 ,

That’s an insult bud, you’re not a medical professional so it can’t be anything but an insult.

Or answer the question. What is the difference between dead isreali civilians and dead Palestinian civilians.

SCB ,

I could be a medical professional. I could be a mental health professional.

But you’re definitely crazy

Madison420 ,

Then you’d be committing an ethical violation in calling me insane without physical observation. Guaranteed you are not a medical professional, I’m willing to bet you’re an actual factual child.

And you’re definitely an asshole.

SCB ,

See that’s just what a crazy person would say

Madison420 ,

The literal definition of gaslighting, way to go!

SCB ,

It’s not gaslighting if the person is crazy.

Madison420 ,

Oo ad hominem, are you going for shitty argument bingo?

SCB ,

We’ve already discussed that it’s not an insult because you are indeed crazy.

Trust me. I’m a scientist doctor

Madison420 ,

That’s your opinion Bud it’s also shitty deflection but do go on, the more you insist I’m crazy and refuse to stand by your argument the weaker you argument becomes.

SCB ,

Oh heavens.

Madison420 ,

And now you’re clutching pearls, why not defend your position on literally any of your bullshit arguments.

How about what kind of “crazy” or “insane” am I, what are the symptoms, what is your expertise, so on and so forth.

Elucidate me Jambi.

SCB ,

In my professional opinion, you seem “normal type” crazy.

Madison420 ,

Oh define it. Defend your position.

SCB ,

You don’t seem like you smile much when men are around, and that’s a sign of crazy.

Madison420 ,

Oh and what are we basing that on, maybe we can find a single thing you’ve said that you’re willing to defend.

Do you always either lash out or run away when you can’t support your argument?

SCB ,

Because I’m a man, and I’m around. And you don’t seem to be smiling.

Madison420 ,

I kinda doubt that, perhaps a boy maybe a man but certainly not a man worth calling a man ie. A gentleman.

You don’t know what I’m doing bud, I could be standing on my head with my thumb up my ass. You’re just making absurd assumptions.

SCB ,

I hope you really are standing on your head with your thumb in your ass. That would be incredible.

Madison420 ,

It would just be more of a way to dunk on you, you’ve completely abandoned your argument because it’s indefensible.

SCB ,

No I’m definitely right

Madison420 ,

But can’t or won’t defend your argument, why is that?

SCB ,

Lack of interest in engaging with a crazy person.

Madison420 ,

Lack of interest in engaging with an asshole.

SCB ,

You seem quite interested.

5BC2E7 ,

So collateral damage is just as bad as putting a baby inside an oven?

lolcatnip ,

You said that, not me.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Where is that baby In oven video you’re talking about? Unless it’s a video there’s no way I’m trusting IDF faked phone calls.

Aceticon ,

Some Israeli “colonist” said it happened so it must be true…

Annoyed_Crabby ,

pro-genocide folks breath sigh of relieve when their support of hospital bombing is finally justified

*on second thought, i’ll just not bring myself down to your level.

Hatsune_Miku ,
@Hatsune_Miku@lemmy.world avatar

uh-huh~ and your proof?

Annoyed_Crabby ,

What proof?

Hatsune_Miku ,
@Hatsune_Miku@lemmy.world avatar

of your claims that they bombed hospitals

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Removed, rule 5. Don’t attack the other user.

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Sorry. Shouldn’t feed the troll.

Hatsune_Miku ,
@Hatsune_Miku@lemmy.world avatar

i’m arguing in good faith

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Sure.

Hatsune_Miku ,
@Hatsune_Miku@lemmy.world avatar

I’m supplying reputable sources with my claims. You still owe me one for the whole “bombing hospitals” thing you said tho! :3

Annoyed_Crabby ,

No i don’t lol.

cypherpunks ,
@cypherpunks@lemmy.ml avatar
Madison420 ,

It really hasn’t, it’s generic un geolocated video yet again and Israel is known to fake video. At the same time it’s not at all proof of their nonsense claims.

ilovesatan ,
@ilovesatan@lemmy.world avatar

Fake news!

Madison420 ,

I mean no, it’s an unsubstantiated claim.

palal , to world in Surveillance footage shows Hamas bringing hostages into Shifa Hospital on Oct. 7
Argonne ,
DolphinMath OP ,

To be fair, Al Jazeera is blatantly anti-Israel, so I wouldn’t trust their analysis without other corroborating sources. Regardless, the evidence the IDF presented for that particular video was far from conclusive, so it’s certainly possible that particular entrance wasn’t to the Hamas tunnel network.

I also don’t doubt that nurse video is fake, but the source of the video is far from definitive. Many parties in this conflict benefit from muddling the waters with fake videos.

palal ,

As if being anti-Israel means that Al Jazeera throws journalistic integrity into the wind? If the facts are valid, they’re valid regardless of what the spin being put on them is.

UN-mandated body says Al Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu Akleh the ‘victim of the excessive and disproportionate force used by Israeli security forces’.

Gee, I sure wonder why Al Jazeera would be anti-Israel…

DolphinMath OP ,

Bias needs to be taken into account, but it does not invalidate good reporting on its own. It’s the same reason I don’t immediately believe all statements from the IDF. They are a party in the conflict and extremely biased. They are however a valuable source of information and their claims should be considered. I would also rank the credibility of the IDF over the credibility of Hamas.

palal ,

The IDF, as I’ve shown, has zero journalistic integrity. If Hamas starts to spread verifiably fake videos to Western audiences, I’ll discredit them too.

You’re miles up shit creek and so all you see is shit. You’re stuck comparing a nice big long shit to a gloopy one. Paddle down a bit and maybe you’ll get some clear water for once.

Argonne ,

You don’t have to look far for fake Hamas videos. Are you kidding? nbcnews.com/…/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna1…

Hamas bombed their own hospital and then said the IDF did it and everyone ate it up

Saying you blindly believe Hamas, a known terrorist organization that says that all Jews worldwide should be wiped out, is really taking the mask off. You should be ashamed of yourself. It’s fine to assume Israel lies, but to blindly trust Hamas is truly moronic. I hope you wake up to reality one day

Emma_Gold_Man ,

Not a great example. All recent reporting was that the hospital you’re talking about was hit by a Hezbollah rocket, not Hamas. Not surprising that Hamas would assume, after concluding it wasn’t them, that it was the IDF, and it not be an outright lie.

palal ,

Other comment got reported, but still doesn’t change the fact that you’re comparing two bad sources and trying to pick one that’s less bad.

If Hamas starts releasing verifiably false videos to Western audiences, then I’ll discredit that too.

DoomBot5 ,

If Hamas starts releasing verifiably false videos to Western audiences, then I’ll discredit that too.

Are the countless numbers of staged videos not verifiably false enough for you? They literally operate a filming crew making victim propaganda.

DoomBot5 ,

As if being anti-Israel means that Al Jazeera throws journalistic integrity into the wind?

Actually yes, that’s exactly what they’ve done time and time again.

hglman ,

How, when?

DoomBot5 ,

Well the most obvious example is the strike on that hospital killing 500 that ended up being a failed PIJ rocket landing on the hospital parking lot killing 10-20 people.

cecinestpasunbot ,

As far as I’m aware there is no conclusive evidence that it was a PIJ rocket. You can only really believe that if you actually trust the IDF.

DoomBot5 ,

You rather believe Hamas that it was an Israeli rocket when all available evidence verified by multiple governments claims to the contrary?

cecinestpasunbot ,

I will believe the findings of a third party investigation which the UN has called for. The “evidence” provided by the IDF is not at all conclusive. As I said, you can’t pretend otherwise unless you trust the IDF.

DoomBot5 ,

Sure, just keep your blinders on and keep going. It’s not like other governments corroborated that or anything. A fact you chose to clearly ignore in the comment you replied to.

cecinestpasunbot ,

So I’m supposed to believe “other governments” that you have yet to name over the UN?

DoomBot5 ,

US, Canada, France. I would hope so. Even better, you could have looked it up yourself.

cecinestpasunbot ,

The US and Israel are the only one making strong claims about who is responsible. France and Canada statements were not conclusive and did not “verify” Israel’s supposed evidence like you said. I think I’d rather wait for a third party investigation before I conclude that Israel, the country who’s had killed over 5000 children in little over a month, is free from culpability in this one instance.

DoomBot5 ,

So 3rd party US is not enough of a 3rd party…

cecinestpasunbot ,

Sure, the country who provides bombs to Israel so that they can drop them on Gaza is a totally neutral third party and not Israel’s #1 supporter. Lol

DoomBot5 ,

So by your definition the UN is not a 3rd party either, since they’re providing aid to Gaza.

cecinestpasunbot ,

You don’t have to convince me. Giving and medical care, education, and food to a people under blockade is totally the equivalent of giving bombs and guns to a state that’s actively committing war crimes. If it turns out to be a PIJ rocket, the UN will be directly implicated in a war crime and therefore they aren’t trustworthy. It makes perfect sense if you don’t think about it.

Spaceballstheusername ,

I’m honestly confused because the original article just says Hamas was seen taking one of the hostages to the hospital. Isn’t that a good thing like hey they are trying to make sure these people don’t die?

Threeme2189 ,

Wouldn’t it be better to not murder, rape and kidnap a couple thousand innocent civilians in the first place?

I mean, come on man… You’re acting as if taking two kidnapped Israeli citizens to hospital overshadows how they got into that situation in the first place.

Spaceballstheusername ,

Yeah I completely agree with your sentiment your talking about both sides right? I’m saying that it makes no sense to bomb a hospital if your enemy is taking the hostages there the get healed unless you don’t care about the hostages and just want to kill Palestinians.

Threeme2189 ,

Your point is moot as far as I’m concerned. Don’t take mother fucking hostages in the first place…

Spaceballstheusername ,

Yeah I agree with both sides. You realize Israel has been arresting children simply because someone said they picked up a rock or said free Palestine. Sounds like both sides are taking hostages.

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