No major news organisation has been given the opportunity to verify this footage. As such it should be treated sceptically until verified independently. The IDF have already been caught editing and altering video evidence, as demonstrated by the BBC.
But lets say it is unedited and is verified. What does it show? It shows Hamas operatives taking two injured hostages into a hospital. That’s it. The IDF says "These findings prove that the Hamas terror organization used Shifa Hospital on the day of the massacre itself as terror infrastructure,”
Well, no, it doesn’t. It shows that some Hamas terrorists used the hospital…as a hospital e.g. they took injured hostages into it. Just because terrorists make use of a location’s facilities doesn’t necessarily mean there was an extensive command post in or under the location.
The IDF have yet to demonstrate or provide anything credible to back up their claim the hospital was an extensive command post.
“The latest video is not yet the evidence that’s been promised of the sort of vast and intricate operation depicted in a computer simulation which the IDF previously released showing what it believes any Hamas base underground at al-Shifa could look like.”
And do all those other hospitals offer identical and appropriate services? Because in my local area there are three hospitals, all offering differing types of services, meaning that depending on what I needed treatment for I would have to drive reasonably close to two of them, including emergency care.
This feels like a real stretch - that map you linked to - the straight line goes near (ish) two other hospitals, not five for example. Maybe the hostages didn’t require hospital treatment until they were in that area? Who knows? Your assigning meaning to actions based solely on your desire for it to be true, not on actual evidence.
But OK, lets say you’re right and they ignored all the other hospitals because their goal was that area in particular - how does that equate to that hospital being a major and extensive command post when literally nothing that’s been presented as evidence by the IDF demonstrates that opinion? Surely if it was then there’d be a lot more than a few random terrorists on those stills.
Let me put it another way - if three or four Hamas terrorists took thirsty hostages to a Starbucks, would you see that as definitive proof that that Starbucks is, or is on top of, an extensive Hamas command post?
At some point you’re going to need actual evidence, independently verified. Not just unexplained, unverified crap that could mean anything.
Good grief, do you really not understand that some hospitals offer different types of treatment to others???
Not all hospitals are set up for emergency treatment. Seriously.
But lets (once more) give you the benefit of the doubt and say all those hospitals are the same size and offer the exact treatment that that one does…how does that establish that hospital as a major command centre for Hamas? That’s the IDF’s rationale for attacking that hospital after all.
Look, I am not saying that hospital is a Hamas free zone, that no one form Hamas has ever been in it. I’m not even saying that it isn’t Hamas’ favoured hospital because of it’s location or maybe there are a few Hamas-friendly people on staff there. I mean, there is zero evidence for any of that but it’s a possibility, right? It’s also a possibility that you and the IDF are absolutely correct and it really is a major command centre for Hamas.
What I’m saying to you is that, based on what the IDF have presented as evidence - none of it verified, and that which has been examined revealed to have been altered/edited and all of it completely shorn of any context by which we might be able to make inferences - there’s pretty much nothing to suggest it is/was.
Not all hospitals are set up for emergency treatment. Seriously.
Hospitals in that part of the world aren’t organized by western standards. Besides which I doubt a hamas terrorist is thinking about a hospital’s quality of care, even if they knew it existed in the first place.
What I’m saying to you is that, based on what the IDF have presented as evidence - none of it verified, and that which has been examined revealed to have been altered/edited and all of it completely shorn of any context by which we might be able to make inferences - there’s pretty much nothing to suggest it is/was.
Hospitals in that part of the world aren’t organized by western standards.
I’m not suggesting they are. I’m simply suggesting to you that no two hospitals offer the same level of services, or even the same services.
Besides which I doubt a hamas terrorist is thinking about a hospital’s quality of care, even if they knew it existed in the first place.
I’m pretty sure that, aside from a medical professional, a terrorist is the ideal person to ask about the services a hospital is capable of delivering.
So I shouldn’t believe my lying eyes. I see
Your eyes aren’t what’s lying. You’re lying to yourself if you genuinely believe what the IDF have presented as incontrovertible proof isn’t very severely lacking in just about every respect. They’ve literally been caught doctoring video.
If the sides were reversed here…if a major hospital in Israel was being attacked and disabled by a vastly superior force and everyone in it either killed or forced to move because this force said a terrorist group had a major operational base there and they presented the exact same evidence as the IDF have, would you believe it then?
a major hospital in Israel was being attacked and disabled by a vastly superior force and everyone inal it either killed or forced to move because this force said a terrorist group had a major operational base there and they presented…
But, that’s not what happened. Israel took the hospital without harming anyone. Before that happened, they provided fuel for the hospitals generators which Hamas didn’t let them have. It stopped functioning as a hospital and the WHO shut it down.
If you genuinely believe that then us having this conversation is pointless. The IDF themselves confirmed they’d sent about 100 Commando’s and six tanks to the hospital which several days before had lost power and oxygen leading to multiple deaths. To spell it out to you, you send commandos and tanks to attack and intimidate, not have a pleasant chat.
The fuel thing - I have no idea who to believe at this point. There’s no verified evidence either claim is true or untrue.
I imagine they did, yet no one was hurt in the hospital.
Right, apart from the multiple deaths no one was hurt.
It’s funny. The video of Israelis delivering fuel was even on CNN. Must be my lying eyes again.
Yeah, I saw that too. Funnily enough, as I thought I was clear about, I wasn’t disputing they did. I was disputing why or how it was refused.
Anyway, after that interesting little side mission, lets get back to the point. if a major hospital in Israel was being attacked and disabled by a vastly superior force and everyone in it either killed or forced to move because this force said a terrorist group had a major operational base there and they presented the exact same evidence as the IDF have, would you believe it then?
This would be more believable if the IDF, which has been searching the complex for days, had found anything of the sort. A major command and control base, supposedly accessible from places random employees can stumble upon, isn’t something you need days of intensive searching to reveal.
They blasted a hole through a garage floor to find a tunnel, that’s not a terror command center and not something a member of the hospital would stumble upon. If this was a big important storage and command site that random doctors would wander into, the troops there would have found it already by just opening doors.
These situations can still be reconciled. Perhaps this particular doctor had a habit of blasting holes in floors and had to be told not to do that under threat of being shot.
Have you ever seen soldiers in rat holes? Tip number one, you have night vision use it, second don’t run, third don’t run with a flashlight down a hall you can’t see down.
It’s totally unfair, you know. Western audiences have been long conditioned to treat it as a sign of villainy when a dictatorial regime builds secret tunnels under innocuous civilian facilities to hide their terrorist warmongering and torture operations! Government propanganda sources like “James Bond” and “G.I. Joe” have conditioned Western audiences to believe that only the bad guys do that!
(Good guys build their secret underground facilities in places of astonishing natural beauty far from civilians who might be harmed by unexpected explosions.)
Does this mean the hospital was complicit in the abduction of Israeli hostages from October 7th? If this is true, my god some people have some questions to answer.
The people on the ground at the hospital did not take hostages. Hamas did, and uses the hospital as a base. No one involved in the running of the hospital gets a say in what Hamas does.
They are both the government and murderous terrorists, so whatever they wanna do, they’re gonna do
I can imagine that some of the complicity started with benign motives. You’re an NGO wanting to do good things for the people of Gaza? You learn and obey Hamas rules. But since you don’t want to admit that you are obeying Hamas rules - you get drawn into endorsing Hamas lies. Nonetheless, by not saying anything about the hostages for a month you are complicate in their capture and your organization is as well.
Then there are those that doubt the veracity of Israeli and US Intelligence saying that the hospital was a control point. Of course it was, and those that watched Hamas walk into the door knew it.
If a terrorist is holding hostages near you and the terrorist says if you tell anyone about it they’ll kill you, or the hostages, then you are also being held hostage, you can just move around more than the other hostages.
Sure fear can play a role, but there was more than compliance to Hamas. They told the press, some of who knew better, that they never seen Hamas or hostages. They took an active role.
You know, the other day I was in the hospital and there was a visibly pregnant woman outside who was smoking. I went up to the front desk and demanded to know why the hospital was condoning that behavior. The person at the desk reacted in complete confusion. So I continued on, asking why the multinational conglomerate that owned the hospital was requiring pregnant mothers to smoke. As I was being escorted out by security, the smoking woman was gone, but they all knew who I was talking about.
Yes, let’s attack the ONLY humanitarian agency that tries to do some good so their shitty opinions of Israel’s behaviour towards Palestinian civilians, patients, journalists and aid workers isn’t so highlighted in the world press anymore.
Oh shut up with your insinuations. If a guy with a gun tells you to treat someone, you do it. As if Palestinians have gotten another choice by Israeli governance. You act as if these people were free before the attacks lol. As if they were living in the land of milk and honey, as if their opinions mattered…
Hah apparently the spin is they were taken to the hospital for humanitarian reasons. After all the rape and murder the kidnappers decided to take their hostages to the hospital for treatment clearly under duress. Yep such nice guys. Definitely what they’d do.
“…they also had a Starbucks. It sucked,” the doctor added before grabbing his no-foam, no-whip, double soy latte with two pumps of vanilla and rushing out the door.
If they’re releasing surveillance footage, expect more to come out. They have already announced that Noa Marciano was executed inside the hospital - most likely on camera.
Also note that they are sharing much more with the US and EU than they are making public. It will likely include surveillance footage tagged with facial recognition of every senior Hamas member who walked through the hospital.
What’s strange is that they are currently in the hospital and are failing to provide any evidence of that tunnel network. All they seem to do is find magically “find a stash of weapons that Hamas surely just forgot” but none of those tunnels they keep talking about
Bro they showed a elevator shaft in a shot up building 200metres from a hospital, didn’t zoom down the shaft.
Stop claiming they showed evidence. They did not. Everything israel shows keeps getting debunked in like 6 hours. You’re just IDF shilling if you repeat this shit.
Sure it can. Now if only they would lower the camera into the shaft or descend the ladder so we could see this amazing tunnel network! Surely this deceisive evidence would be presented as soon as they could right?
We know there are tunnels. Even Hamas has shown their own tunnels.
The claim here is that there is a giant Hamas command center with tunnels underneath the hospital which is the excuse israel used to bomb the hospital. The killed hospital staff said there are no tunnels there.
They said they had conclusive evidence before the bombing. So far we’re seeing very little evicence of israeli war crimes and it looks like they were just terror bombing civilians in a hospital.
Israel has the most modern weapons out there I do not believe in mistakes. Especially since they called the hospitals multiple times to say they were going to bomb them and they all needed to evacuate (see magically disappear)
America wanted Hamas in Qatar to not have to talk through Iran.
Aljazeera is plenty credible. While their fact checking can leave to be desired, they are not fabricating evidence like the IDF is. Furthermore almost all journalists reporting in Gaza show video evidence. You seem to ignore that I specifically pointed out that the call does NOT have video evidence and thus is not the most credible source, though it is very likely that it is true.
Hamas is not blocking any supplies. Only israel is blocking supplies.
You can blame Hamas for Oct 7 because they did that, but blaming literally everything israel does on Hamas is nonsense.
You’re literally arguing with someone who denies that the IDF bombs hospitals. All I’m saying is that lemmy.ml would’ve banned his ass for repeatedly denying established facts…
Saying Israel commits genocide is funny. However, Ben-Gvir does not help the conflict at all and his far right opinions just burry the potential for a solution.
First of all, Hamas is as bad as IDF. No more no less. I stand with innocent people killed around the world regardless of their ethnicity, religion, etc…
Second, there’s a difference between journalism and propaganda. This community is for world news.
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