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lemmy.ml

ImplyingImplications , to linuxmemes in What distro he uses? šŸ§šŸ’»

Gentoo because the compiler output looks kind of like the matrix. Also you could watch every single film while waiting for the compiler to finish

weirdcarrotmonster , to linux_gaming in Riot official response about League of Legends on Linux for Vanguard anti cheat

Honestly, i donā€™t get why people are bitching about it so much. A company, that makes a game with intention to make money off it, that never supported linux neither promised to support linux some time in the future, clarifies that it sees no purpose in supporting linux because of monetary reasons.

Okay, that may be your favorite game, you might have spend tons of money on in - but idea that it may never be supported on your favorite platform has never crossed your mind? Itā€™s like whining that PS exclusive game is not getting ported to Xbox.

So basically, ā€œitā€™s too hard, and our engineers are not good at their jobs.ā€

Imagine this: you have a cheater problem. Your team of developers have only ever worked on gameplay-related stuff - graphics, game engine, etc. You can:

  1. Make them pull solution out of their butts, somehow gain expertise in topic they have never worked on
  2. Pour ALOT of money in HR and hire specialists that have experience in anticheat software
  3. Pay 3rd party for solution that you can use RIGHT NOW and that works (at least somehow)

When money is involved, you make decision by counting them. You give somebody (tech lead, probably) task to evaluate your options - and give you approximate numbers. And iā€™m not surprised they chose 3rd option.

Stop stealing our CPU cycles for high risk rootkits and start mitigating and detecting cheating on the server. Itā€™s that easy.

Iā€™m currently working on bot detection for web resources - and trust me, itā€™s extremely hard to distinguish them from people without some client-side analysis. Sure, you can use behavioral analysis, but you need lots of data and, again, expertise in that. Okay, they have the data - thousands of games played daily. Have you ever seen job listing for ā€œgame patterns analyst for LoLā€? Again, you have to find someone capable - highly payed experts, who will spend some time testing their theories, with no guaranteed success.

ā€œHow do you separate good players from cheaters? This low ranked player who just got his second pentakill - is he cheating or smurfing? This weird behaviour - is it because of missing fog of war or are they just communicating over voice chat?ā€

Itā€™s justā€¦ really NOT that easy.

The ā€œdistributionsā€ argument always smells like bullshit. Developers actually interested on supporting Linux usually stick to one or two distros of their choice. (Typically Ubuntu.)

Thereā€™s your answer - they are not interested. And there is nothing wrong with that! Itā€™s just business! Remember the ā€œa times b times cā€ scene from fight club? Theyā€™ve calculated their x - and itā€™s not worth pursuing (for them).


Rootkits are bad, mā€™kay. Wanna avoid them? Donā€™t install them. Just donā€™t be surprised when company adds them - itā€™s their product, they do whatever the fuck they want.

yggstyle ,

While yes the company can certainly do what they want - that isnā€™t to say that everything they want to do is correct.

In an isolated bubble their decision looksā€¦ fineā€¦ ish. The reasons they provide are mostly excuses- but for arguments sake letā€™s say it is actually making a meaningful difference. (It isnā€™t and wonā€™t: TPM is flawed and has already seen demonstrations of exploits.) So we now have a platform that has locked out users based on OS version, hardware support (TPM), in addition to os. They are actively culling users that otherwise were viable customers. Smart.

Letā€™s expand on this outside the bubble: what os is growing rapidly in usage with gaming? Linux. Riot is actively making a shortsighted decision (historically this tracks) which will cause them grief in the long run. Remember: their games worked on these platforms prior to this decision. The support was all free labor done by the community. Letā€™s say they want to release a game that takes advantage of the handheld platforms that are rising in popularity- they now need two separate anti cheat systems. Oops. They now need to try to claw back the early adopters and free community support they burned. Good luck.. Factoring in the cost of limiting future flexibility and growthā€¦ I can only imagine the game experience must have improved 2-3x by the addition of this anti cheat ā€¦ except it hasnā€™t. By their own admission: cheat developers move faster. Objectively? It was a terrible decision.

caustictrap ,

Linux is at 2 percent in the steam hardware survey, also 50 percent linux gamers in steam are steam deck users. That is not a big enough market and riot has more data than us and they are probably right.

yggstyle ,

Based on the increase since steamos became a thing - I would argue it is gaining momentum in a significant way. Based on hardware manufacturers interest in the steamdeck and similar products - I would suggest my views are not off base.

caustictrap ,

Handheld gamers doesnt contribute much to league of legends, which is a highly competitive mouse and keyboard focused game. And riot have data about the linux gamers who plays lol before anticheat update. So they are right to offer zero support. Also linux never had much support for popular liver service games like EFT, warzone, siege, fortnite.

yggstyle ,

The point I was making is riot isnā€™t just a league of legends company. They are a game company that is applying this anti cheat on their entire software suite. This decision cuts off future growth- which from a business standpoint is awful. That of course completely ignores the primary issue, which remains, the rootkit.

Highly competitive isā€¦ no more competitive than any other gameā€¦ but on that subject their matchmaking was so poor they had to hide the ELO mechanic completely to mask the issues with it. The issues still exist of courseā€¦ but just like this smokescreen masking the shortcomings in their anticheatā€¦ they are just less obvious.

edit: some words

weirdcarrotmonster , (edited )

letā€™s say it is actually making a meaningful difference. (It isnā€™t and wonā€™t: TPM is flawed and has already seen demonstrations of exploits.)

I dare to say their solution is ā€œgood enoughā€ to stop ordinary user from cheating - not to solve cheating problem entirely - it may be impossible - but to raise bar of cheating without getting banned

They are actively culling users that otherwise were viable customers. Smart.

They may lose some users who wonā€™t play anymore because they wonā€™t install rootkit, but keep those who would leave because of cheaters. Maybe their situation is dire enough so they would apply such drastic measures?

Letā€™s expand on this outside the bubble: what os is growing rapidly in usage with gaming? Linux. Riot is actively making a shortsighted decision (historically this tracks) which will cause them grief in the long run.

I mean, iā€™m all in for that, but year of linux desktop 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024 2025?

Linux is my favorite OS (i use arch btw) and i use it sinceā€¦ 2007, i think? But i sorta gave up on that belief - itā€™s a niche OS, and if gaming is ever coming to linux - itā€™s not coming to linux, itā€™s coming to ChromeOS or SteamOS.

To sum things up - iā€™m not saying rootkit anticheat is a good thing. Itā€™s a solution to some problem, which people chose by comparing it to alternatives. Contrary to popular belief, CEOs donā€™t just sit around and think how to make players more miserable - those decisions are not made in one day. Iā€™d drop a game if it forces me to install rootkit - i value my privacy more and iā€™d advice anyone to do the same. Iā€™m just really annoyed by all the whining and comments ā€œboohooo my favorite game developers suck and donā€™t value me enoughā€.

yggstyle ,

I dare to say their solution is ā€œgood enoughā€ to stop ordinary user from cheating - not to solve cheating problem entirely - it may be impossible - but to raise bar of cheating without getting banned

The problem is that it isnā€™t raising the bar. Sure some low hanging collateral might be caught but in reality a department could easily fudge numbers (banrates) to justify a move to a new solutionā€¦ and do. frequently. Speaking generally - this isnā€™t the days of download an exe and become 1337 like the old days. Hackers want to get paid. You sub to services which are monetarily motivated to stay ahead of a business which gains little from fighting on this front more than ā€˜good enough.ā€™

They may lose some users who wonā€™t play anymore because they wonā€™t install rootkit, but keep those who would leave because of cheaters. Maybe their situation is dire enough so they would apply such drastic measures?

This wasnā€™t a dire situation. As long as league (or any online game) has existed there have been anti cheat mechanisms in place. And the best mechanism that has always existed was server side tracking with audits. Full stop. Clientside anything is a bandaid and this is no exception. If I were to speculate on the choice? This was the cheapest option available. Dress it up how you likeā€¦ companies rarely go for correct optionsā€¦ they go for cheap ones.

I mean, iā€™m all in for that, but year of linux desktop ā€¦ Linux is my favorite OS (i use arch btw) and i use it sinceā€¦ 2007, i think? But i sorta gave up on that belief - itā€™s a nieche OS, and if gaming is ever coming to linux - itā€™s not coming to linux, itā€™s coming to ChromeOS or SteamOS.

Lots has happened with Linux sure, but recently it is becoming considerably more mainstream and is gaining a critical mass on a relevant front: gaming. Linux is (generally speaking) free vs licensed oses like windows. Want a cheap gaming system? Steam is blazing a helluva path. Devs want bigger audiences - and more eyeballs. It would be foolish to disregard the growth in this sector.

Contrary to popular belief, CEOs donā€™t just sit around and think how to make players more miserableā€¦

CSuites / Parent companies make money for themselves - because capitalism. Look no further than VMWare torching their userbase and salting the earth. Short term gains over long term longevity. Riot is not special here- they are being shortsighted.

weirdcarrotmonster ,

Look no further than VMWare torching their userbase and salting the earth. Short term gains over long term longevity. Riot is not special here- they are being shortsighted.

Hmm, good point. Iā€™d argue that VMWareā€™s user base was more solvent (is that a right adjective? English is not my native language), but i donā€™t think this argument would be in my favor.

You sub to services which are monetarily motivated to stay ahead of a business which gains little from fighting on this front more than ā€˜good enough.ā€™

And subscription costs too raise the bar to start cheating. Not everyone would pay to have upper hand in F2P game. Those who are willing to do it can be hand-picked by reports and manual review. We donā€™t know their ā€œdefinition of doneā€ in fighting cheaters - maybe decreasing number of cheaters by 80% is an acceptable result? Maybe those 20% of remaining cheaters can be accounted for as ā€œreally good playersā€ - those exist too. That would solve the problem.

This wasnā€™t a dire situation. As long as league (or any online game) has existed there have been anti cheat mechanisms in place.

We both donā€™t know that, if we are being honest. If it wasnā€™t problem at all they probable wouldnā€™t have done anything at all - or theyā€™d do something far cheaper. This is a speculation - i can be wrong about state of things.

Also,

Short term gains over long term longevity.

I think there is a shitty pattern ā€” if everyone is making same bad decision (good short term, bad long term), it makes this decision not as bad as it would be otherwise. If you are the only one who is forcing players to install possibly-malicious software, you look really bad. But if every (or majority) of competitive multiplayer games requires it, this idea just doesnā€™t sound that bad. If you already have malware on your PC - what changes if you install another one?

KillingTimeItself ,

Iā€™m currently working on bot detection for web resources - and trust me, itā€™s extremely hard to distinguish them from people without some client-side analysis. Sure, you can use behavioral analysis, but you need lots of data and, again, expertise in that. Okay, they have the data - thousands of games played daily. Have you ever seen job listing for ā€œgame patterns analyst for LoLā€? Again, you have to find someone capable - highly payed experts, who will spend some time testing their theories, with no guaranteed success.

ā€œHow do you separate good players from cheaters? This low ranked player who just got his second pentakill - is he cheating or smurfing? This weird behaviour - is it because of missing fog of war or are they just communicating over voice chat?ā€

90% of cheating that is incredibly annoying, that most people tend to be fed up with, is inherently obvious. You get rid of that shit and if someone is within the 99% percentile, then honestly, who gives a fuck, let them try hard.

BreadOven , to programmerhumor in When a real user uses the app

I once deleted system32ā€¦Thatā€™s when I began calling the shots.

zurohki , to linux in Mm.. can someone help?

If thereā€™s something really important on that disk, donā€™t do ANYTHING, just unplug it and hand it over to a data recovery company.

If there isnā€™t anything really important on there, go ahead and try and do it yourself.

Paying $100 to a data recovery company can save you a ton of headaches if it has the only copy of your thesis on there and you mess it up trying to fix things yourself.

steersman2484 ,

If you create an image of the disk in the current state from a live boot or an other machine. You can try fixing it without having to risk making things worse

7heo ,

Also, work off of the copy. Never touch the source.

survivalmachine ,

Where is data recovery $100? In my country, data recovery is like $1000 USD to look at your drive, and then they tell you how much they can recover and a full quote.

zurohki ,

Depends on what they actually need to do. When itā€™s a drive thatā€™s working and they just have to image it and run some recovery software it should be pretty cheap.

Clean room repair of dead hard disks is a different story.

KidnappedByKitties , to programmer_humor in Hilarious

102 times

Rubanski ,

Why 102? Isnā€™t it 0-100?

stevestevesteve ,

He already said it once

Rubanski ,

Wow that went over my head haha

jaybone ,

But that was before she set the requirement. I assume she meant from then on, and not since the beginning of time.

someguy3 ,

If they have eggs, get a dozen.

therealjcdenton , to lemmyshitpost in FF Evangelists

Both have anime profile pictures so both are losers

mvirts , to linuxmemes in Who needs FHS, anyways?

Lol we can be smug until someone sneaks a backdoor into nixpkgs for a while. For user envs updating the system doesnt mean the compromise is gone, although checking would be super easy.

CubitOom , to lemmyshitpost in First post
ProgrammingSocks , to linux in Btw

I enjoy this activity too as a non binary person

Twig ,
@Twig@sopuli.xyz avatar

Wouldnā€™t that be Gentoo?

mkwt ,

Except even Gentoo does binaries now (more than they used to).

Twig ,
@Twig@sopuli.xyz avatar

LFS?

Mr_Blott , to memes in Its what plants crave

[Utopia not available in the EU due to Mountain Dew containing more chemicals than a 1990s nightclub]

Octopus1348 ,
@Octopus1348@lemy.lol avatar

So thatā€™s why Iā€™ve not seen it here.

Grayox OP ,
@Grayox@lemmy.ml avatar

You poor healthy bastards

Mr_Blott ,

Thatā€™s the healthcare human rights thing tho

FrankTheHealer ,

We have it in Ireland, but itā€™s not even remotely like the stuff they have in the US. Our Mountain Dew is just like sweeter sprite.

RandomVideos ,

So thats why people from my country want to go to America

onion ,
an0nym0us , to programmerhumor in Use a old version of a library with a known defect
@an0nym0us@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • cupcakezealot ,
    @cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    the world would be better off if all software was written in basic tbh

    Sabre363 , to memes in On the road to success, there are no shortcuts.

    Looks like they made a wrong turn on failure street instead

    lemmyreader OP ,

    šŸ˜‚

    PrimeErective ,

    But itā€™s a shortcut!

    HikingVet ,

    I guess they arenā€™t headed towards success thenā€¦

    mlg , to programmerhumor in A week of fprintfs has me wanting to code rust next week
    @mlg@lemmy.world avatar

    C holding a gun: ā€œif you segfault itā€™s your own faultā€

    tetris11 ,
    @tetris11@lemmy.ml avatar

    Assembly (Octopus swimming alone since birth): ā€œcompiler? whatā€™s a compilerā€

    Annoyed_Crabby , to memes in Trolley Problem Solution

    what if the trolley running in 88mph?

    Diplomjodler ,

    With a bit of luck the debris will catch all the people tied to the tracks.

    cerement ,
    @cerement@slrpnk.net avatar

    air time

    lauha ,

    Then the trolley will fire wheel itself into the future and the people on the tracks will be spared

    hakunawazo ,

    *burnt

    DmMacniel ,

    Then we will see some serious shit!

    Omega_Haxors ,

    Move the lever at 89mph.

    Tarkcanis , to memes in They wish

    A gal with a decent income!? Sign me up!

    Tak ,
    @Tak@lemmy.ml avatar

    This is often assumed but most of the only fans adult content creators make very little. What if she makes very little but it just makes her feel sexy? I just want them to be happy in what they do.

    A_Very_Big_Fan ,

    The market is extremely saturated. Iā€™m willing to bet most people could make more reliable money doing door dash

    skeeter_dave ,

    Yeah if you consider $100-$180 a month ā€œdecent incomeā€

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    I canā€™t imagine most are making much money.

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