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lemmy.ml

dangblingus , to memes in Defediverse

Many instances have shit like hexbear federated, but have explicit rules on the side saying “no tankie shit”. make it make sense.

AOCapitulator ,
@AOCapitulator@hexbear.net avatar

stop being anticommunists and this problem is resolved

Texas_Hangover ,

Communism is the very definition of failure. How anybody could be simple enough to think that bullshit could ever be valid is shocking to me.

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Tankies aren’t real Communists

Sucking the dick of authoritarian regimes does not make you communist

uralsolo ,

Which Communist regimes would say are the “real” communists? Because if you think (as many do) that every single mass movement that described itself as “communist” was bad, then I suspect you’re not a communist at all.

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I’m not communist, but I do observe that many of the existing “communist” states seem to be just authoritarianism disguised as the common good

spiderplant ,

All nation states are authoritarian disguised as the common good.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

yeah, exactly. which raises the question of why china specifically infuriates certain people to the exclusion of all other discussion.

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Hell yeah there’s that lib homophobia, 1 milimeter below the surface at all times

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I’m bi but no go ahead, call me a homophobe for making a dick joke :p

mustardman ,

r/asablackman

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Damn, guess I’m straight now

Oh wait, no

ShimmeringKoi , (edited )
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Then you should know better than to be homophobic as a substitute for saying anything interesting. Self-reflection would probably help you to not embarass yourself in the future.

randint ,

Careful calling those regimes authoritarian. Hexbears like to attack this point by assigning a slightly different definition to authoritarian and then either (a) claim that all governments are “authoritarian” or (b) blame liberals for using this word to demonize socialist states. I once saw someone cite en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Authoritarianism to “prove” that those states are not authoritarian.

ScrivenerX ,

It’s worse than just that. They argue that acknowledgement of Stalin’s atrocities is Holocaust denial.

They are so scared and insecure they will lash out against anything that slightly challenges their beliefs. If they post sources it will be misreadings of fringe groups, or conveniently ignoring facts. Like how they believe tiananmen square wasn’t a big deal because the China killed about 300 people a mile away. Or how Cuba is a utopia even though it’s citizens chose to get run over by the coast guard instead of living there.

uralsolo ,

Today is September 3, 2023 and Joseph Stalin saved the world from fascism.

ThereRisesARedStar , (edited )

They argue that acknowledgement of Stalin’s atrocities is Holocaust denial.

No, we argue that equating the bad things the soviet union did to the holocaust is holocaust trivialization, which is a take from mainstream liberal historians. Because the bad things the soviet union did were tiny compared to the holocaust and pretty tame compared to the other Allies.

brain_in_a_box ,

As ever, actual Jewish Holocaust scholars agree with us

jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory

brain_in_a_box ,

Not by “assigning a slightly different definition”, just by applying the definition consistently, rather than using the us-foreign-policy standard.

ThisMachineKillsFascists ,
@ThisMachineKillsFascists@hexbear.net avatar

Ah yes, doge-firefox, please tell me how consistent your beliefs are lmao

mustardman ,

Did you just ad hominimem this poor LIB ?

ThisMachineKillsFascists ,
@ThisMachineKillsFascists@hexbear.net avatar

I strawmanned ad hominined logical fallacied all over them.

TheBroodian ,

Heaven forbid an actually existing place on the planet actually make some real tangible gains for its people while necessarily suppressing threats

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

There’s “threats” and there’s “anyone remotely criticising the regime”

There are some tangible gains in these places but also significant losses for the freedoms and rights of their residents

TheBroodian ,

They don’t/didn’t suppress criticism, that’s a myth

ThereRisesARedStar ,

Why does it always go to homophobia with these types

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Idk where the homophobia is, I’m partial to sucking the odd dick myself, just not Mao Zedong or Vladimir Putin :p

ProfessorOwl_PhD ,
@ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net avatar

“umm actually I used it as an insult because it’s a good thing!”

How do you people survive the cognitive dissonance necessary to convince yourself you’re not being bigoted?

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

“you people”?

Besides, I’m not bigoted because I disagree with your ideology, my way of pointing that out may have been hyperbolic but certainly not bigoted

ProfessorOwl_PhD ,
@ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net avatar

Yeah, you people, people who used homophobic insults about dick sucking but insist it’s ok because they’re gay/bi/have an LGBT friend.

I agree that you’re not bigoted because you disagree with our ideology, but you are definitely bigoted for using bigoted insults to point it out.

Riffraffintheroom ,

Real Communism exists only in the pure and untouched ethereal plane of your mind palace.

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

It’s nice and warm in there, I like it

mustardman ,

Real communism also only exists within the walls of the Kremlin.

english.sse.com.cn

Zuzak ,

I support whatever this is so idk what that makes me

https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/1a7752f3-0a4c-463b-8821-483daa5dd3f1.webp

mustardman ,

Celebrating an increase in life expectancy from 30 to 40 years old is not remotely the win you think it is.

Zuzak ,

I’m celebrating the increase in life expectancy from 35 to higher than that of the US, actually, which is the win I think it is.

The point is not the immediate increase in that specific 5 year period, the point is the clear trend of rapid, long term increases after a long period of stagnation, with the pivitol turning point being exactly when the CPC came to power. You’re supposed to look at the whole graph.

mustardman ,

China never manipulates data coming out of their authoritarian country so good thing we can trust it. I’m sure their life expectancy is great with all their industrial pollution that regularly causes smog in their inner cities.

Zuzak , (edited )

Here is my source do you have a source that disputes that? Or is your belief based entirely on unfalsifiable faith?

Also curious if you think Chinese life expectancy is still like 35 or what lmao

You may also be interested in what the World Bank, that infamous communist propaganda rag, has to say:

Over the past 40 years, the number of people in China with incomes below $1.90 per day – the International Poverty Line as defined by the World Bank to track global extreme poverty– has fallen by close to 800 million. With this, China has contributed close to three-quarters of the global reduction in the number of people living in extreme poverty.

mustardman ,

I would expect you to understand unless you’ve read theory.

Zuzak ,

What theory would that be, lol?

mustardman ,

Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand. In Fountainhead, she goes in depth about how Chinese life expectancy statistics are generally made up.

Zuzak ,

Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand

michael-laugh

That’s incredible, I honestly did not see that one coming.

So tell me, what’s your best guess at what Chinese life expectancy was before the CPC came to power, and what do you think it is now? Do you dispute the numbers from before the communists were even in power? Or do you think they’re still living in mud huts?

mustardman ,

You can laugh, but communist oppression is no laughing matter. Please see this article where Ben Shapiro writes a thesis-level takedown of the mythos of Chinese life expectancy.

PipedLinkBot ,

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): piped.video/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=KTi-2uYeRb6E8_cS

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.

Zuzak ,

Please, I’ve read that article countless times. Here is a response that breaks down all the flaws in his argument.

mustardman ,

No don’t bother linking your dumb policies that you guys never abide by.

I’m merely acting reflexively to the behaviors I constantly observe from Hexbear users.

Zuzak ,

We always abide by the PPB, tyvm! soviet-huff

mustardman ,

No, but whenever you guys get “dunked on”, you compulsively link to it like a goddamned Manchurian candidate.

Zuzak ,

I’m just gonna say, if you’re still posting rickrolls in 2023, you don’t have a lot of room to talk about unoriginal bits.

mustardman ,

Ok boomer.

Zuzak ,

Man, you really didn’t like being wrong, huh.

mustardman ,

It’s impossible to engage in good faith debates with what is essentially the QAnon of the left.

Zuzak ,

QAnon, well known for being able to provide evidence for their beliefs from credible sources.

Aren’t you the one that’s more like QAnon, since you’re going purely off vibes and faith?

mustardman ,

Aren’t you the one that’s more like QAnon, since you’re going purely off vibes and faith?

“no, u”

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

I haven’t seen that movie, does a pig shit on its own balls?

mustardman ,

Serious question - is that normal for pigs or is something wrong with it?

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

I believe that’s normal for breeding hogs, yes

radiofreeval ,
@radiofreeval@hexbear.net avatar

Ben Shapiro

michael-laugh

mustardman ,

Lmao

radiofreeval ,
@radiofreeval@hexbear.net avatar

You have a bright future as a circus clown

mustardman ,

You just didn’t bother clicking that Benny Shaps link, did ya?

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

The Fountainhead is a novel about an American architect that has nothing to do with China. They’re doing a weird bit, presumably about how evil tankies asking them to read books is cheating.

Zuzak ,

Yeah I got that, at least after they posted a rickroll. Guess being an idiot is a defense mechanism when they realized they had nothing.

mustardman ,

Communism increasing life expectancy!?

Shanghai Stock Exchange: english.sse.com.cn

Beijing Stock Exchange: www.bse.cn

Shenzhen Stock Exchange: www.szse.cn/English/index.html

That’s more stock exchanges than the US, comrade!

Zuzak ,

Oh, so you consider Deng’s reforms to be right-deviationist? Are you a Maoist, then?

Whether you consider the CPC to be communist or not, the fact still remains that they’ve made a lot of improvements in the lives of the average Chinese person.

mustardman ,

Deng was alive and well when two of those stock exchanges were opened and the whole argument was “look at the improvements only possible under Communism”.

How do you say “moving the goalposts” in Mandarin? Actually, no need to answer as you are all suburban petit bourgeois kids from the US.

Zuzak ,

Deng was alive and well when two of those stock exchanges were opened

That’s… what I said? Obviously, Deng was the one who implemented economic reforms, such as opening stock exchanges and allowing foreign investment. Some Maoists consider this to be right-deviationist and counter-revolutionary, and that he should’ve continued more in line with Mao’s policies. That’s why I asked if you’re a Maoist, since you consider his reforms incompatible with socialism.

I’m not sure who’s whole argument was “look at the improvements only possible under Communism.” China’s conditions were much worse off than places like the US, so obviously it’s possible to improve conditions to be better than per-revolutionary China (which is not saying much) without communism. It’s just that in China’s case, it was the communists that did it.

mustardman ,

Mao died in 1976, which is where that life expectancy graph is somewhere in the mid 50s. Super impressive.

Zuzak ,

Over 60, actually. I think that doubling live expectancy over a single generation is, in fact, pretty impressive.

So I take it you’re not a Maoist or a Dengist. Can you tell me who you think should’ve been in power in China instead? The KMT? You can see how much they did on the graph, if you don’t find the CPC’s numbers impressive then I’m sure you’d hate them even more. The invading Japanese perhaps? The European colonizers? Or maybe you think the Qing dynasty should never have been overthrown.

mustardman ,

Correlation or causation? You know that industrialization increases life expectancy, right?

It’s not hard to double your life expectancy when you’re starting out with the same life expectancy that existed in the Roman Empire almost 2,000 years prior. Thanks, Mao!

Zuzak ,

Of course I know that, did you not read what I said?

“China’s conditions were much worse off than places like the US, so obviously it’s possible to improve conditions to be better than per-revolutionary China (which is not saying much) without communism.”

It’s not hard to double your life expectancy when you’re starting out with the same life expectancy that existed in the Roman Empire almost 2,000 years prior. Thanks, Mao!

It really is wild that no other faction was willing to do anything that would increase Chinese life expectancy above that of the Roman Empire, yes. I agree, thanks, Mao!

It’s pretty funny that you criticize Deng for implenting economic reforms that led to further industrialization, while also crediting the rise in life expectancy to that very same industrialization.

What even is your ideology? And can you answer my question about who should’ve come to power instead of the communists?

mustardman ,

So you agree it has nothing to do with communism and you’re just trolling around the internet. Got it.

Zuzak ,

I have no idea what thought process led you to post that but ok.

There were a lot of really simple, basic improvements that the peasants in China desperately needed. Anybody could’ve done what was needed, but nobody else was willing to, because nobody else cared. There was no special technical economic policy that uplifted them, it was just a willingness to address their needs that no other faction possessed.

mustardman ,

The entire point of this brilliant thread is that communism, not individuals, lifted people out of poverty. Numerous economic systems have high life expectancy (socialist, capitalist, etc) and the common denominator is basically just industrialization.

Who would have thought the ability to make nation-state quantities of medication extends lives?

Zuzak ,

The entire point

That’s all you fam, I never said anything like that. All I did was point to graph and say I liked it when people do things (and political projects) that make life expectancy skyrocket. You seem to have read a bunch of stuff into that.

mustardman ,

I support whatever this is so idk what that makes me

en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_countries_by_life_expe…

I’m assuming you equally support all those capitalist countries that have high life expectancies. Samsung Korea I mean South Korea with it’s life expectancy of 84 years is generally considered a great society on Hexbear, no?

Zuzak ,

Life expectancy doesn’t always give the whole picture. For example, in my graph, there are times where China’s life expectancy is rising very rapidly, but it was still considerably lower than that of other countries. It’s necessary to analyze what policies lead to what results and what the reasons are for the success or failure of a given political project or policy.

I haven’t studied South Korea’s policies and material conditions closely enough to offer much of an informed analysis, as the world is a very big place. You could always make a thread about it on c/askchapo or something.

mustardman ,

Life expectancy doesn’t always give the whole picture.

Could have saved us a lot of time, going all the way back to the post where you used life expectancy to try to paint a whole picture.

Zuzak ,

Just because it doesn’t paint the full picture doesn’t mean it isn’t important. The data in this case shows some very clear conclusions.

Sometimes I try to post more in depth theory, the last time I tried that, everyone complained that it was TLDR.

mustardman ,

I mean this genuinely - It seems like you’re one of the more reasonable Hexbear users, just for saying this alone:

I haven’t studied South Korea’s policies and material conditions closely enough to offer much of an informed analysis, as the world is a very big place.

Intelligence is always knowing where your current knowledge ends. I don’t have all the answers to everything either and it’s easier to engage in discussion when both participants know their limitations, which is the bare minimum required for a good faith discussion. Virtually all other Hexbear users double down and go on the offensive when they are hit with something they don’t know about, which is why I’ve developed a particular disdain for users from your instance and refrain from substantial engagement because it always devolves into sealioning. The only way I have found to engage with users from your instance is reflexively using their own debate strategies otherwise I’m constantly told I “don’t know anything unless I’ve read insert-book-of-the-week”.

I used South Korea because it’s pretty much worse than the US in every regard. My joke, “Samsung Korea”, wasn’t an ignorant American’s take thinking all they make are cell phones, rather, Samsung is basically at the top of their oligarchy and has more control over their government than US corporations, believe it or not. South Korea has one of the best life expectancies, but is one of the worse examples of capitalism.

Zuzak , (edited )

I think your problem is that you jump to conclusions too quickly. I think you’ll have better luck with Hexbears if you slow down and make sure you actually understand what our point is instead of just trying to win before you have a clear picture of what the other person’s position is.

mustardman ,

Oh well, double down I guess. A prominant Hexbear community is called “Dunking On Libs”, which, as we both know, is going to other instances where they engage in “jumping to conclusions” and “just trying to win”.

You almost had self awareness. Almost.

I’ll leave you with what I wrote in my last post:

The only way I have found to engage with users from your instance is reflexively using their own debate strategies

Zuzak ,

I can’t speak for every user on my instance (nor can you for yours), but I can say that many of us also respond in kind to what we get. When you tried to dunk on me, you got PPB’d. You’ll get the same if you lob baseless accusations (like calling us “the QAnon of the left”) or confidently assert bad, uninformed takes.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

good bit

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

No one in China is over 50. If you’re over 50 in China they just shoot you, and then they lie and say they didn’t.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

My god he can’t read a graph. How has our educational system been allowed to fail for this long?

I’m not committed at all to China as the salvation of the communist project, but it’s exactly this sort of self-imposed illiteracy and ignorance, and nearly religious faith in the inferiority and duplicity of The Orient that makes me default to distrusting anything negative a cracker says about it.

mustardman ,

Comrade, I also blindly trust any graph as dear leader would have it.

…wikimedia.org/…/800px-Trump_holding_altered_Dori…

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

let’s skip to the end of the discussion: I say “that’s not anything like what I said.” you say “yes but you believe those statistics are true???” I say “do you have any good evidence that they’re fabricated, and that the life expectancy in China is actually still hovering around 40?” you beg the question, possibly implying that Chinese people are inherently untrustworthy, and accuse me of supporting genocide. There is nothing I can say to you that will instill an ounce of critical thinking ability in you.

wall-talk

mustardman ,

I mean all Hexbear links are essentially the Pravda. It doesn’t help when you guys treat Wikipedia like it’s somehow the same as conservapedia.com

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

I don’t think census data compiled and verified by the UN DESA is Pravda, a publication which does not exist anymore. I quite like Wikipedia and I think it’s a very good way to get a quick introductory understanding of a topic which you’ve just learned about. In this case it prints a similar graph citing the same data, so I don’t know why you would mention it to support your strange argument that China’s life expectancy has not significantly improved under communism.

It’s not even that outrageous a thing to believe, but you demand that I presume it false because believing that China is a normal country opens the door to believing a whole bunch of other scary things.

mustardman ,

Why are you pretending like China is communist when they have several stock exchanges? Is that where you exchange MarxBux?

Shanghai Stock Exchange: english.sse.com.cn

Beijing Stock Exchange: www.bse.cn

Shenzhen Stock Exchange: www.szse.cn/English/index.html

That’s more stock exchanges than the US, comrade!

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

I don’t really care whether or not China is communist, or if other people think it’s communist for various esoteric reasons. It doesn’t effect me either way. State Department propaganda and warmongering does effect me though.

mustardman ,

Of course you don’t care if it is communist. Communism was never the point. Mask comes off that you guys are just authoritarians masquerading as glorious revolutionaries.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

No, I’m not Chinese. China is not important to my politics at all. That’s like the first thing I said if you scroll up.

mustardman ,

All of Hexbear is suburban US kids so of course I knew you didn’t live in any of these glorious peoples republics.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

But I hate the United States

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Fair enough

Cjwii ,

Stop being antisocial

ThisMachineKillsFascists ,
@ThisMachineKillsFascists@hexbear.net avatar

Anticommunist

antisocial

Literally same thing lol

AntiOutsideAktion ,
@AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net avatar

I don’t know what to tell you; the tankies are right.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

easy solution: your definition of tankie shit is so incredibly broad that it includes anything to the left of the US Democratic party

GustavoM , to linux in It either runs on Linux or refund
@GustavoM@lemmy.world avatar

All games (theoretically) run on Linux – cloud gaming is a thing. Even if you may say “B-but muh input lag” its extremely doable and reliable as of now.

nawordar ,

Not everyone has fast and reliable internet connection

GustavoM ,
@GustavoM@lemmy.world avatar

Only if you don’t have a job – even Africa and Afghanistan has decent internet nowadays.

chloektboehnchen ,

Germany has terrible internet service, so no, not everywhere. Also you would still need a cloud gaming provider that has servers close enough to your location that lag doesnt become an issue and actually offers that service in your country, which I’m not sure would be the case for all places

bitwolf ,

The only place I’ve seen it viable was in a speed test in Los Angeles on Verizon mmwave that achieved 6ms latency on input.

That’s in addition to the controller, bluetooth, and device input lag. This 6ms is experienced both in the video feedback and in the button presses.

In certain games this lag can hamper the experience. I know with 12-16ms ping I still hit cars and walls I shouldn’t have in driving games which I figured would be the easiest to stream.

Maybe fiber could achieve a less perceptible latency, but I can’t imagine that rolling out faster than some people will be able to render it natively on a low end device.

Do we know the data centers are rendering the games on Linux? It’s entirely possible they spin up ephemeral stripped down windows vms to host the sessions.

OrnateLuna ,

Well that’s very entitled of you. Certain places just have bad infrastructure and you won’t be able to fix that by having a job

CorrodedCranium ,
@CorrodedCranium@leminal.space avatar

One of the reason’s behind IP over avian

Default_Defect ,
@Default_Defect@midwest.social avatar

This. My current connection is the most speed I’ve ever had and the most you can get in my area without spending a ton on business class, but cloud gaming is atrocious at best. I’m not gonna move to the city so I can get gigabit for a half decent price while spending 4 or 5 times more on housing.

Selmafudd , to memes in Already cracked

Oh shit this is good news, I looked at it yesterday and it’s $120 here and instantly thought fuck that I’ll wait until it’s cracked

learningduck ,

What kind of country are you in that a game cost $120!?

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

Probably a country where the dollars are worth a different amount.

Mr_Blott ,

Metric dollars Vs imperial

Selmafudd ,

Australia, they love price gouging us here. Just went and checked steam again, the premium version is $170…

learningduck ,

Just curious. It’s it because of tax/vat or just everything being expensive?

rotopenguin ,
@rotopenguin@infosec.pub avatar

There’s a lot that goes into an Australian release. Shipping all those bits to the bottom of the world is outrageously expensive. All of the map geometry has to be altered to be right-side up there. The physics math has to be re-coded to deal with -1g gravity. Somebody has to be paid to go through all of the scripts to replace every instance of “jelly” with “marmite”. Asset loading code has to be changed to compensate for the Coriolis effect.

All of this adds up to expensive Au ports, the new costs often overshadowing the title’s original development costs.

escapesamsara ,

Close, it’s really because you need to flip all those bits upside down so they can be read properly by the computers down there.

learningduck ,

Good one 😂

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime ,

Best comment here by far lmao

Tagger ,

How much is game pass on Australia?

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

This site says $11.95AUD, the equivalent of $7.72USD.

As for the $170 premium version, that’s $170AUD. Australia has 10% GST (VAT) so 170/110*100 = $154.55AUD excluding tax.

$154AUD is $99.64USD.

They aren’t getting gouged, well, at least not worse than US customers.

Tagger ,

thanks

landsharkkidd ,
@landsharkkidd@aussie.zone avatar

Yeah I have Game Pass so I was pretty keen to play the early access but when I found out it was $170, just to play 5 days earlier? No fucking thank you.

I’m spending that money on an SSD because my partner bought the deluxe version and running it on my computer is arse. My computer isn’t even that bad!

dan1101 ,

How much is a decent middle class income in Australia? I’d say it’s about $45,000 per year in the US.

Selmafudd ,

Average is 90k, median salary is 80k

dan1101 ,

So higher relative income in Australia.

How much is 4 liters of milk and 4 liters of petrol in Australia? 4 liters because that about equals a US gallon which is our usual measurement for those things.

In the US right now a gallon of milk is about $2.65 and a gallon of petrol is about $3.80.

Selmafudd ,

I donno about cow milk maybe $5-6 is my guess, petrol is like $7-8

dan1101 ,

So it seems like the scale is just higher in Australia. As of today 1 USD = 1.55 AUD

sweeny ,

The real cost of gas and milk is the environment

beef_curds , to linux in It either runs on Linux or refund
@beef_curds@hexbear.net avatar

Honestly, the 2 hour refund window is the perfect length to see how bad the Linux compatibility is. A half hour to try a few tweaks, if I care enough to. Another hour to see if there are subtle bugs or intermittant crashes.

I definitely have tried to run a few games I wouldn’t have bothered with otherwise.

TheCaconym ,

The infinite refund window offered by piracy also works, mind you

Also sometimes due to DRM/launcher shit the pirate version actually works much easier on wine/proton. I’ve downloaded cracked versions of games I actually bought in the past due to this

beef_curds ,
@beef_curds@hexbear.net avatar

I’ve fallen so far out of the loop with games piracy.

I gather that there are repacks now for Linux? Or do you dl the windows version then just run it through proton?

TheCaconym ,

The latter - downloading the windows cracked version and yeah, wine or proton. It works beautifully.

That’s when there is no native linux version obviously; these days you can also find pirate versions of those when they exist (most notably on rutracker).

I think there is one person putting out repacks especially made for Linux mind you (can’t remember their name though found it, it’s johncena141), including specific wine versions and so on in the repack, though I’ve never used them

CorrodedCranium ,
@CorrodedCranium@leminal.space avatar

Hopefully they become a little more well known. I am apprehensive of downloading from any repacker that isn’t on the Piracy Megathread or FMHY wiki.

Uluganda OP ,

I hate to admit I had to do it with Nioh Complete Edition. I dont know but my store downloaded copy just refused to load. When it did, it had 15fps for a while and then crashed. Meanwhile, when I played the pirated version, it worked good. It stuttered for the first 20 minutes, but once all the caches were built it worked amazingly. Bummer I cant use the online feature.

jdaxe ,

I had this with the Sims, I bought and paid for the game legit but trying to run it through steam it kept trying to load the origin store for auth or something which was a pain in the ass and I couldn’t get it to run reliably.

I ended up using a crack just because it ran without any BS!

CaptDust , (edited )

Refund window is great until the devs decide to change up their anticheat to something less compatible later (fall guys, rocket league, nearly happened to battlebit) or there is instability that only appears late in the game you can’t find in 2 hours (Jedi fallen order, Horizon zero dawn) or the publisher decides to update their stupid launcher and break compatibility that way (EA comes to mind)

Even if something works today, with how modern game devs operate it’s certainly not guaranteed to work tomorrow, and that’s a problem.

JuxtaposedJaguar ,

Customers have more power than companies would like you to believe. Politely explain the situation to customer support, and ask for a refund. If they refuse, mention that you purchased a game that was promised to work for at least several months, and you haven’t received the product you paid for. Because of that, you’re considering charging back through your bank. If that doesn’t work, say you’ll charge back if they don’t refund. If that doesn’t work, actually charge back through your bank. Banks are surprisingly cool about it as long as you don’t do it too often. Of course, you need to buy the game directly (no account balance) from a credit card.

Just don’t be a jerk to the support person, because it’s almost certainly not their fault. It’s also less likely to get you what you want. They’d rather give you what you want so you go away, and you just need to give them reasons that they can relay to their supervisor if necessary.

Chariotwheel , to linux in It either runs on Linux or refund

Blaming the purchaser for not checking beforehand if it will work. ProtonDB is a good source.

UltraFiestaMango ,
@UltraFiestaMango@lemmy.ml avatar

And also not always accurate 💩 soo no, still the game’s fault

520 ,

How is it the game's fault? They never said it would run on Linux.

Jajcus ,

You mean they choose not to support Linux. Still sounds like they are to blame, not Linux.

li10 ,

Yes, they choose to not support Linux because it’s a tiny market share.

I’m pro Linux gaming, but I don’t blame companies for not supporting it when it’s such a tiny market.

Hopefully it’s going to take off and we’ll see more games with native support now that the steam deck is doing so well.

Elderos ,

The entitlement in this whole thread is insane. Is that how linux gamers are? Not to mention that modern gaming require developers to use third-party anti-cheat solution on which they have little control. You’d think the Linux crowd would understand that it makes more sense to please the 98% of players up until anti-cheats get better Linux support.

PopOfAfrica ,

The funny thing is moat of these anti cheats have built in ways to enable Linux, such as easy anticheat, but Deva stubbornly wont toggle the option to enable.

Apex runs just fine WITH its anticheat.

Blizzards anticheat also works out of the box.

LinyosT ,

I believe commonly used engines like UE and Unity also have options to build a game for linux as well.

Even if you’re not using an engine that supports building for linux, nor want to maintain a separate linux codebase. You can just build for windows while targeting proton compatibility.

LinyosT ,

Ironically the two biggest ACs in use, EAC and battleye are both linux compatible and have been for around 2-3 years at this point.

520 ,

Yes, they choose to not support Linux

Exactly this. It's like buying a PlayStation game and being shocked that it doesn't work on your Xbox.

Things like Proton are very much the exception and not the rule. Unless either Valve or the game devs come forward saying that Proton supports this, it shouldn't be an expectation.

520 , (edited )

Yes. They chose not to support Linux. Would you get pissy because God of War doesn't run on your Xbox?

No one made a promise, implicit or otherwise, that these games would run on Linux. The game devs didn't make this promise by not listing Linux or Proton as supported, and Valve didn't add these games to their list of explicitly supported games for Proton.

Valve said that we're free to piss about and try Proton on other games, and that they'd try to improve compatibility, (and they have done) but that isn't the same as a promise that these games will run.

Ricaz ,

I used to just check WineHQ and if it has Gold or above, you can definitely make it run

shiroininja ,

ProtonDB recently told me civ 3 didn’t work or had major issues. Here I am playing flawlessly.

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

Did you submit that to protondb?

AureumTempus , to linux in It either runs on Linux or refund

deleted_by_author

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  • Ricaz ,

    Steam version of BG2 EE worked flawlessly for me. It’s been discounted down to like 3€ a few times

    520 ,

    The Steam version might be using the steam runtime, which would explain why you aren't having dependency issues.

    AureumTempus ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • elbarto777 ,

    What’s gog?

    AureumTempus ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • elbarto777 ,

    Thanks!

    Ricaz ,

    Proton and Wine are largely the same thing. Proton just has DXVK built in as well as a bunch of Valve-made patches.

    Valve had greatly accelerated Wine development. I still run many games off pure Wine with manually added DXVK.

    AureumTempus ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • Ricaz ,

    Proton is just Valve’s fork of Wine. It had a lot of game-specific patches, to make all the Steam games work better.

    Wine isn’t meant specifically for games - you can run most Windows applications in it. It’s just translations of Windows syscalls to Linux equivalents, to put it simply.

    uis ,
    @uis@lemmy.world avatar

    Proton IS wine

    irmoz ,

    Previous Baldur’s Gate games came out on old ass consoles, you can play it emulated without a hitch. I know I definitely played BG2 on Dolphin

    AureumTempus ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • irmoz ,

    All valid reasons. Idk if EE released for console.

    Ghostbanjo1949 ,

    That’s not Baldurs Gate, it’s Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance which is a completely different game that was on consoles. It was an Action RPG as opposed to an RPG.

    But it was also great fun. Especially with a friend.

    CorrodedCranium ,
    @CorrodedCranium@leminal.space avatar

    You can play Baldur’s Gate on all sorts of machines using GemRB. Not the enhanced version though.

    MindSkipperBro12 , to linux in It either runs on Linux or refund

    Just get Windows, dumbass

    amycatgirl ,
    @amycatgirl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    > Goes to linux community

    > Tells user to install windows

    :/

    blackstrat ,
    @blackstrat@lemmy.fwgx.uk avatar

    It’s a bold.move, Cotton. Let’s see how it plays out

    Afrazzle ,

    I guess just giving the linux users a taste of their medicine

    MindSkipperBro12 ,

    Sometimes you must be intolerant of other peoples choices

    LinyosT ,

    Is using Linux really one of those choices though?

    unreliable ,

    Why? He is happy with his operational system. He do not need to pay 100 bucks for a questionable OS . Linux had overcome MacOs as number of users on steam. It is his right to complain. Go sell in windows store if you want be windows exclusive.

    HiddenLayer5 , to linux in It either runs on Linux or refund

    Especially if they use an engine that natively supports Linux, they have no excuse not to release a Linux version.

    EvokerKing ,

    Yes, they do. There is more than just the engine at play on compatibility. The main reason is actually usually the anti cheat.

    Fidelity9373 ,

    Looking at Destiny. Game worked okay on Linux before they integrated Battleye, which HAS Linux support, but Bungie just doesn't want to interact with it.

    EvokerKing ,

    This is why it’s mainly larger developers that care about their community that implement Linux support. Take valve for example. Wonderful company that cares about their playerbase more than the average game development team. They have Linux support on almost all of their games as far as I am aware. Bungie is a decent company but most of their community doesn’t want to play on Linux anyway, so they won’t bother with it. However most teams that are smaller or care more about money than players won’t do it.

    Elderos ,

    Valve is definitely an exception. I am not sure why, but it is pretty much in the open that Gabe Newell has a bone to pick with Microsoft and he has been throwing money at Linux for over a decade to break their monopoly on gaming. I’d argue that this has nothing to do with their love for the community and more so with Gabe’s personal vendetta against Microsoft.

    Reality is that most game devs, most executives and most people in marketing don’t really care about Linux. It is good PR to support Mac and Linux, and some of the geekier developers will go the extra mile to support it, but I think it is common in the industry to assume that Linux users are not gamer, or that they have enough knowledge to install a dual boot. They don’t care in the sense that they don’t even think about it, its not even on the radar for most game companies. Most studios probably never even had a discussion about it. That is how irrelevant Linux has been to gaming. Hence why Proton is such a tour de force.

    Elderos ,

    There are tons of reasons my dude. You can still have platform-dependant technologies in your game even if the base engine itself supports linux.

    ImpossibleRubiksCube ,

    I respect that as true, but every console other than XBox is either Linux or BSD based; at a certain point learning to work with alternative platforms is just good business practice.

    Elderos ,

    In an ideal world everything would work out, but for some business it is a pretty huge commitment for what was less than 2% of the market just a few months ago. We certainly lost money porting our game in Linux at that last place I worked. It was before Proton though. Obviously each case is different, and some games work on Linux out-the-box due to Photon so this become a non-issue.

    ImpossibleRubiksCube ,

    And which game was that, if you don’t mind my asking?

    Elderos ,

    Not sure I want to name the game because this would make me very easy to identify from my post history. It’s a game on Steam that sold over 250k copies. My boss promised a Linux version very early on because they thought it would be easy, but we ended up being stuck with that promise.

    AProfessional ,

    The kernel in use is literally meaningless. Sony’s userspace is unique and the graphics stack is fully proprietary. Same for Nintendo.

    Grangle1 ,

    I find that to be an annoying thing with Japanese software in general, gaming or otherwise: more proprietary garbage than Western software and practically hard-coding it to 100% force you to use the software in the way THEY intend for you to use it, not how YOU want. Makes for worse Linux compatibility at best, if any at all, compared to Western software. Note that I’m purely talking about native or straight Wine Linux compatibility, not Steam/Proton, which works around those issues well.

    ImpossibleRubiksCube ,

    I’m pretty sure you have no idea what a kernel does if you’re jumping to user space. It’s very far from meaningless.

    PoliticalAgitator ,

    From my own experience, “not bothering” is definitely the better business practice since chances are you won’t make back the development costs.

    Maybe Steam Deck and that porting library have improved things but a decade ago it would have been better business to just give Linux users $20 to not play your game.

    ImpossibleRubiksCube ,

    This is officially the stupidest response I have ever gotten on a social platform.

    cynetri ,
    @cynetri@midwest.social avatar
    CorrodedCranium ,
    @CorrodedCranium@leminal.space avatar

    I believe the PS5 is partially based off of FreeBSD and I don’t think there is as strong of a gaming scene on BSD (even relative to the size of its userbase). I feel like there would be some rather large leaps going from a tailored console OS to a more widely available alternative OS.

    BlinkerFluid , to memes in Netflix be like:
    @BlinkerFluid@lemmy.one avatar

    Of all the shit I pirate, the tiniest smidgen of media comes from shitflix.

    It’s mostly garbage. I’m not pirating 600 episodes of cake decorating and pumpkin carving competitions.

    Hairyblue , to linux in It either runs on Linux or refund
    @Hairyblue@kbin.social avatar

    For me Linux gaming is Steam/Proton. If is works with Steam/Proton, I am playing them. I find that native Linux games are not updated regularly or at all. And Steam wants games to run with the Steam deck. And they are willing work to make that happen.

    And game companies know there are a lot of Steam decks out there. And it is not hard to put some effort to see that it runs on that equipment.

    All this is a big help for the Linux community. Many gamers don't know that they don't need to buy windows to game. Linux/Steam/Proton is a great option. That is why I make a point to tell people that I am playing Baldur's Gate 3 on my Linux Ubuntu gaming PC. This is how I found out that Linux can play games and switch from Windows. Another Linux gamer told me it was possible.

    gigatexal ,
    @gigatexal@mastodon.social avatar

    @Hairyblue @Uluganda yeah I care less about a Linux native game than a game that has DRM and anti cheat that works with proton. I’ve found that all the games I play on Linux that run on proton run so well on X11 (haven’t gone to Wayland yet).

    OrnateLuna ,

    Considering wine and thus proton don’t support Wayland the games will just run through XWayland so should perform the same as on X11. Personally haven’t encountered any issues outside of things that are caused by X11 limitations

    Grangle1 ,

    If there is one, I tend to use the native Linux version when I can, just to do my miniscule part to encourage devs to support native Linux, though on one or two games I have noticed bugs in the native Linux version that were fixed in the Windows/Proton version. That said, I am still quite thankful and impressed with how well Proton works for anything I use it with.

    Resolved3874 ,

    As someone new to Linux the fact that I could just check a box on steam and suddenly I could install and run the witcher 3 blew my mind. I had no idea. Last I checked on Linux gaming the solution was install windows 😂

    txrx1010 ,

    Agreed. It’s just so sad to me that GOG to this day does not seem to understand their target audience. Seems to me that people who value DRM-free Games overlap vastly with the group of Linux users and still GOG Galaxy is not available on Linux. I would absolutely love GOG Galaxy natively on Linux with Proton integration. Sure we can run it with Lutris etc. but this has been asked from GOG for years. I tried buying everything on GOG instead of Steam until that point where that whole Proton and Steam Deck integration happened. Now I buy everything on steam, just for convenience. I would love to buy everything from GOG but there are just to many hoops to jump through.

    gataloca ,

    Yes I think you’re right, there’s probably a significant overlap in the target audience of GOG and Linux users. I guess the reason why GOG hasn’t released a Linux version of GOG Galaxy might be because a large portion of their catalogue is Windows and doesn’t want to include something like Proton or Wine support. I don’t think it absolves them from criticism however.

    Whisper06 ,

    Yeah I announce it in my steam gamer tag.

    festus , to linux in It either runs on Linux or refund

    I’ll buy Windows games at full price only if the developer has made efforts to better support Linux users (say by fixing a bug that only affects Linux users).

    Vitaly , to linux in It either runs on Linux or refund
    @Vitaly@feddit.uk avatar

    everything is changing

    MonkderZweite ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • blkpws ,

    And we stopped to use horses to go to places, things changes.

    AyyLMAO , (edited ) to memes in This can't possibly go wrong

    deleted_by_author

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  • 30mag ,

    I don’t understand what you’re saying.

    AyyLMAO , (edited )

    deleted_by_author

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  • 30mag ,

    Thanks.

    Rawsark , to risa in No wonder Kurzon looked so happy on his death bed in 'Emissary'

    Is it startrek equivalent of snusnu?

    transientpunk ,
    @transientpunk@sh.itjust.works avatar
    ProcurementCat ,

    Not sure if I should start watching Star Trek after seeing how shamefully they ripped off Futurama :O

    banazir , to linux in It either runs on Linux or refund
    @banazir@lemmy.ml avatar

    Ok, hear me out. Linux is not an easy platform to develop for because it’s in constant flux where systems and libraries come, change and go constantly. Linux itself is a somewhat slippery concept (if we expand from the kernel) where “works on linux” can really mean it’s been tested on one particular distro. Debian stable and rolling releases are not the same. Unless I am completely mistaken, I can see why major developers are hesitant to support linux, whatever it even is. Is Android linux?

    Now, I’m all for this message. Given how OSs have been developing, I advocate for linux adoption and wish people would “vote with their wallet”. Otherwise things just will not change. Well, not for better, if recent history is anything to go by. I just feel that this problem has more prongs than we like to admit, being linux enthusiasts.

    Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    flashgnash ,

    Not really the case anymore because of proton, game devs develop for Windows and proton and then it’ll run on anything that can run proton, Linux, android, Mac or otherwise in the future

    From what I hear thanks to proton it’s incredibly easy to develop for Linux, as long as you don’t use one of the anticheats that doesn’t support it or intentionally prevent it from running in proton you’re fine

    banazir ,
    @banazir@lemmy.ml avatar

    Well, yeah, but I think the issue is that the best way to develop for linux is to make a Windows binary. I don’t like that. Developers actively sabotaging Wine/Proton compatibility is kind of malicious though.

    flashgnash ,

    I don’t think the best way to develop for Linux is by making a windows binary, I think the best way for game developers to make a Linux version of a game they otherwise wouldn’t is by making a windows binary compatible with proton

    Problem is very few developers actively choose to make a Linux game and windows games if done right run at native speeds on Linux anyway.

    I’m gonna be unpopular for saying this but it’s the same thing as using HTML for desktop/mobile apps, sure it’s not optimal performance wise but it’s a hell of a lot better than often nothing at all because companies can’t or won’t justify development time to support smaller groups of people on smaller platforms

    If such a time comes that desktop Linux has a large enough market share for large companies to take seriously then I’m sure they’ll start developing native versions of maybe even make Linux-first games but sadly we’re nowhere near that point yet so best we can hope for is good cross compatibility tools

    lowleveldata ,

    I think the issue is that the best way to develop for linux is to make a Windows binary

    If it works, it works. Stop those bureaucratic inquisitions like “Stack Overflow says it’s not best practice” “Code review is not optional” “It’s gonna crash production” yada yada

    frankfurt_schoolgirl ,

    As a big Linux fan, it makes me said that Wine needs to exist. But, maybe it’s not such a bad thing. Linux is just a kernel, with no associated libraries for app developers. App devs don’t want to manually write system calls, so it’s always been the case thar they lick and choose which set of libraries to target for their Linux apps. A popular low level choice is the GNU standard C library, and a popular high level choice is the GTK/GDK/Gnome stack. But these aren’t the only choices. I mean you can use the MUSL standard C library if you want. You can choose between OpenGL, Vulkan, and WGPU for graphics already.

    I see Wine and Proton as just being another set of standard apis to target. Maybe they don’t have the best design, but is traditional Unix really the best design either? Now the Valve and company are supporting Wine, it’s one of the Linux targets with the most actual developers. And of course it has a huge advantage over the glibc + Vulkan stuff: it retains binary compatibility forever.

    banazir ,
    @banazir@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yes, Wine and Proton are great and they do actually solve a lot of issues with linux gaming. I don’t exactly begrudge anyone for choosing to go that route because linux is complicated. But I do wish we’d talk more about native linux gaming and didn’t always default to Proton. Valve has done wonders for gaming on linux, but I am not fan of Steam and their DRM policies.

    I really appreciate programs like Bottles these days. Back in 2006 or so I beat Deus Ex on Wine and setting it up was a hassle. Today I’m amazed it was even possible back then.

    frankfurt_schoolgirl ,

    I totally agree. The real problem for Linux gaming tho is that games are almost always distributed as compuled binaries, but Linux is built around open source. It you had a model where you paid for the source code of a game, and then it got compiled for your machine right when you downloaded, Linux gaming would probably work great. You’d have better fps too. (I actually really like this idea, somebody like GOG should make a client that does this).

    TheBat ,
    @TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

    Valve should release their distro tbh

    Voyajer ,
    @Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

    Linux game devs should be targeting the Steam Linux Runtime which provides a stable environment.

    rufus ,

    You could bundle your specific versions of libraries. And link it statically. Like most games do anyways.

    uis ,
    @uis@lemmy.world avatar

    But why? What libraries are causing problems? Zlib? SDL? Actually SDL better kept dynamically linked because SDL sometimes adds support for new interfaces(wayland, egl).

    rufus ,

    No libraries are causing problems.

    Holzkohlen ,

    Pretty sure that’s not just a Linux thing either.

    rufus , (edited )

    I’d think so, too. But afaik windows people don’t do so much dynamic linking anyways. Most of the times it’s Linux executables that are few megabytes in size and most windows executables are at least tens of megabytes because people prefer statically link things in that world.

    Nobody stops you doing the same thing with linux executables.

    uis ,
    @uis@lemmy.world avatar

    it’s in constant flux where systems and libraries come, change and go constantly.

    Same applies to every non-deprecated OS.

    CorrodedCranium ,
    @CorrodedCranium@leminal.space avatar

    I had some issues running the native version of Prey 2006 because of that

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