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lemmy.ml

socsa , to memes in Unpopular Opinion

On the other hand, I’d wager that any given person who uses Linux daily at work is far more likely to own a stake in their company than the average worker.

My Linux laptop is also literally my means of production, which I own. Karl Marx never predicted this.

dingus OP ,
@dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

He also didn’t predict a class of people born with no labor to sell because so much of it has been automated away. How are they supposed to use their labor as a bargaining chip if they can’t find labor to do to begin with?

socsa ,

Actually I think that’s kind of exactly what he predicted. Technological determinism would inevitably manifest the violent downfall of capitalism.

onkyo ,

Marx wasn’t a technological determinist though. He believed that a workers revolution would bring the end of capitalism. He even thought it would happen druing his lifetime.

onkyo ,

Marx did talk about individuals owning the means of production. For example farmers or craftsmen owning their tools before capitalism. Marx talked about the means of production being shared under communism and not owned by one specific person or capitalist. If anything Marx predicted FOSS lol.

dingus OP ,
@dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

Except this is really reductionist and ignores there is very little “open hardware” out there, and few people producing it. So while you might have access to the “means of production” through software, you absolutely do not in hardware.

Great that software tools are in the hands of the worker, but the means to fabricate the machines that code runs are definitively not owned by workers. (To say nothing of issues with getting drivers for a DIY motherboard working with Linux long-term.)

Also, not everyone is born to code, so it’s a bit elitist.

onkyo , (edited )

You can use FOSS without knowing how to code though. I wasn’t completely serious I know Marx didn’t predict FOSS but I do think it’s an example of how the means of production being shared could look like. It would be great if that also included open hardware as well.

Edit: I realize it means the workers doesn’t actually own the means of production but it’s a step in that direction and I don’t think it contradicts what Marx said is my point.

amio , to programmerhumor in I don't think Unity is playing anymore.

Home of CHALLENGE PISSING! (How does it work?!) "If you can piss six feet into the air straight up and not get wet, you get no install fees!"

TimeSquirrel , to memes in Unpopular Opinion
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

Goes both ways. They can use my shit freely, and I can use theirs.

I_Has_A_Hat , to memes in Cheers my dudes

A workday was also like 4 hours or less in biblical times though.

The idea that people in the past worked long, grueling hours due to lack of technology is a myth. People had way more free time in those days.

Prunebutt ,

I’ve heard this a few times and wholeheartedly believe it. But I don’t know any sources, when I’m asked. Do you happen to know any?

charonn0 , to internetfuneral in not even you
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

Order your baloney detection kit now!

AnanasMarko , to memes in Unpopular Opinion

That may be true, but there is (usually) also an upside. Any fixes and modifications must be shared back. Thank you copyleft licenses. Thank you GPL.

dingus OP ,
@dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

Man, I’m so glad that the Border Patrol is using my tech to violently abuse refugees! It’s extra awesome that they sent back some modifications! I love it when I get help from *checks notes… fucking Nazis.

This is a joke, right? Cool beans that the people who decided to use the code for nefarious purposes helped make it cleaner. /s

Seriously, that’s really pathetic for an “upside.”

AnanasMarko ,

While we might not agree with immigration policy and power abuse, it’s hard to put moral limitations on who gets to use our software. While the example you gave is far from trivial.

The second we say someone can’t use our software for whatever reason, that’s the second the software is no longer truly free. It’s same with Open data.

If you set in writing that your software can be used by anyone, then you also take away the power of those in high places to interpret the licence in a discriminatory way.

dingus OP ,
@dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

Negativland helped create a Creative Commons license whose purpose was literally that. You didn’t have to give attribution to the original artist, but you were disallowed from using the work for profit/in advertisements/et cetera. The issue is backwards copyright law that says the only way copyright should be distributed is through ownership and capital. We need a copyright law that respects the original creators intent, if they don’t want it used commercially/in government. Not all of us are Tom Waits (who famously refused to license his work for commercial purposes) and happen to have the money to fight misuse of our creations in court.

AnanasMarko ,

Yes, I agree. And Creative Commons are a great example of peoples’ control over their work. My argument is that it wont be ‘the original artist’ who gets to interpret the licensing terms.

If I may take your example of border patrol abusing immigrants with your software. And I’m sorry for the trivial example beforehand.

Let’s say you put in licensing terms: “This software may not be used to endanger peoples lives and/or livelyhoods”. And software is used by both Border Patrol and the immigrants to protect/cross the border.

Both parties come before a judge, accusing the other party of misusing your software. Border patrol says the immigrants are endangering american people with crime etc. ,and the immigrants accuse the border patrol of violent beatings.

In whose favor would a judge decide?

P.S.: thanks for the link. I’m a huge Tom Waits fan, and had no idea about the voice-theft.

dingus OP ,
@dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

Both parties come before a judge, accusing the other party of misusing your software. Border patrol says the immigrants are endangering american people with crime etc. ,and the immigrants accuse the border patrol of violent beatings.

I agree with this except the refugees categorically aren’t using software if they’re at our borders with empty hands. The only argument that would matter in the court was whether or not the CBP was breaking the software license. The refugees aren’t in a position to use the technology, and as such, arguments about whether or not they’re violent are immaterial to the legal question of whether the Border Patrol broke the license and illegally used the software.

While I agree that in the end, it’s a decision by the courts, you’re still detailing the answers to how it would be handled based on how copyright currently functions and I’d wager with a re-organized and re-written copyright law, you’d have a lot fewer instances of being able to argue that.

I mean, we have court cases that never make it anywhere all the time based simply on the idea “standing.” Hell, our legal system doesn’t even respect the idea of it even though they reject it half the time. Conservatives wholesale made up someone refusing to make web pages for a “gay couple” who turned out to be a straight guy who never wrote such an email and the Supreme Court swallowed it and said “fuck standing, we’re giving him standing because we’re corrupt fucking assholes.”

So what I’m talking about includes legal system reform as well, which would preclude a lot of ability to waste developers time by illicitly using their work and then taking them to court over it.

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

HPE for example write on every IPMI and Firmware page that they are not allowing the use of the software in fields related to ABC weapon systems.

jollyrogue ,

“must” is a strong word here, and the conditions which trigger “must” are amazingly narrow.

The GPL is not as fearsome as people make it out to be, and I wish it was. It’s a very capitalist license, and there are ways around its provisions.

TunaCowboy , to memes in Unpopular Opinion

lemmy corporate apologist mode engaged

Rentlar , to memes in Geez, Unity took it personal.

That would the only thing that could be worse: moving the Unity headquarters to Baltimore.

robot_dog_with_gun , to memes in Unpopular Opinion

should use a dark background on the text mao-aggro-shining

dingus OP ,
@dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

That would have required a lot more of my labor than I was willing to give to it.

Pandoras_Can_Opener , to cat in PSA: Farmers Beware

If you happen to be a lion watch out for your emanciated brother with a scar talking to hyenas too.

fosforus , to memes in Unpopular Opinion

Even in Stallman’s visions open source was not hostile to making money at all, as long as the tenets are followed. Also, you might wanna read economics.

someguy3 , to memes in Geez, Unity took it personal.

I’m ootl, what’s going on?

cybervseas ,

Unity lost any good will they built by changing their pricing to per install and making go into effect retroactively. Indie developers especially are up in arms.

Serdan ,

Unity changed the license, so developers have to pay a fee for every install of games made with Unity. Notice that it’s “install”. Not “sale”. Not “download”.

They claim they won’t count installs from demos, cracks, charity bundles, re-installs, etc, but absolutely no one trusts them at this point. Several devs have said they’re switching engine, despite the large cost of that.

Caradoc879 ,

Retroactively?

Serdan ,

In the sense that it applies to games already released, but not to previous installs. Allegedly. One of the main problems with all of this is that detecting only “valid” installs is a very hard problem, if not impossible. Unity’s attitude seems to be that devs just have to trust their numbers.

Additionally, some devs are reporting that they’ve been offered a pass on all this bs, if they switch to Unity’s own ad platform.

DmMacniel ,

Or in the case of Unity for Web: any time the game is loaded.

DmMacniel , to programmerhumor in I don't think Unity is playing anymore.

I can hear Tim Sweeny rub his palms.

Cjwii , to memes in Remember me comrades!

Fuck tankies, get money

fuck tankies, get money

Fuck tankies, get money

Fuck tankies, get money

Lordbaum ,

Fuck tankies, abolish money (and the state and the class society when we are already on it)

DBVegas ,
@DBVegas@hexbear.net avatar

What magical step do you think is going to get us to abolish money and have a classless moneyless society? You need a vanguard communist party to use the state apparatus to destroy the bourgeoisie in a transitory socialist phase before achieving communism (said classless moneyless society).

Lordbaum ,

Sorry for the late response but what always puzzles me how do you enforce freedom I mean these are more or less contradicting things. The only way I can imagen people getting liberated is by first liberating themselves and then cooperate with like minded individuals to create a grass roots organization that’s destroys and replace the old system. And not just replacing it’s leadership. I mean we tried it, but it ended up being spoiled like the former leaders/system1. ( if more or less worse is debatable) it even crushed like minded individuals in the process. What I want to say people can only be free if they want to be free and if you give them a chance to develop them freely and that the means mark the ends. I myself don’t know the complete plan and picture how a revolution will happen and how it will look at the end, but I have some ideas in my Head which I will work (for example promoting an gift and library economy as well as helping some orgs) to help my comrades and support the revolution. I just ask you to not make the same mistakes that our ancestors did, comrade.

rjs001 ,
@rjs001@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Go back to your Fox News

irmoz ,

What makes you think they like fox news?

Perfide ,

Bruh what part of that made you think they watch Faux News?

Oh, lemmygrad. Away, tankie

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Do you support the US sending cluster bombs, rockets and tanks to Ukraine?

Perfide ,

Sure do. Ukraine can certainly make far better use of them defending their homes, than the US ever did using them for anything.

If Russia didn’t want Ukraine using cluster bombs, rockets, and tanks, they shouldn’t have used them first. Fight fire with fire.

culpritus ,
@culpritus@hexbear.net avatar

This Film Is Dedicated To The Brave Mujahideen Fighters Of Afghanistan

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Okay tankie

A nazi-loving one too, how neat

If Ukraine didn’t want Russia using cluster bombs, rockets, and tanks, they shouldn’t have tried to do a genocide in the Donbasvivian-shrug

wanderingmagus ,

Slava Ukraini and kill the bear. Ready to set condition 1SQ for strategic nuclear launch. Hooyah America. Come and get some.

Flinch ,
@Flinch@hexbear.net avatar

hitler-detector beep beep

AOCapitulator ,
@AOCapitulator@hexbear.net avatar

You do realize Ukraine is using those cluster bombs on their own territory right?

For the next 30 years Ukrainian children will have their arms blown off playing catch with friends in the park, and you’re cheering

“Defending their territory”

You’re a gutless bloodthirsty pearl clutcher

BurgerPunk ,
@BurgerPunk@hexbear.net avatar

Why do you think you’re a communist?

Flaps ,

Sounds pretty tankie to me

Egon ,
@Egon@hexbear.net avatar

abolish money (and the state and the class society when we are already on it)

And how do you propose we actually go about doing this?

rubpoll ,
@rubpoll@hexbear.net avatar

Tankie.

Krause ,
@Krause@lemmygrad.ml avatar

fuck tankies

abolish class society

lenin facepalm

Perfide ,

You can be a communist without being a fucking tankie. Fuck off back to lemmygrad.

WideningGyro ,

I’d love for you to explain exactly what you mean by “tankie”

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

I think it means someone who likes doing whippets, not sure why they’re bringing it up here tho

ikilledtheradiostar ,

That’s a wook.

Tankie Is a guy that likes propane over charcoal.

Perfide ,

Nah, we both know what I mean, don’t try to sealion this. You can fuck off back to Hexbear.

ThereRisesARedStar ,

The point is it tankie is an amorphous McCarthyist insult. No one knows exactly what you’re saying because most of the people who use it aren’t on exactly the same page. I’ve been called a tankie for supporting Cuba’s new family code and the intensely democratic process behind it and for saying the taean work system is a good system.

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Yes, we do.

You mean “Woke”

captcha ,

“Woke” on foreign policy…

BurgerPunk ,
@BurgerPunk@hexbear.net avatar

We really don’t know. Unless your definition is someone who supported the Soviet Union sending in tanks to put down the coup in Hungary, then its pretty devoid of meaning

Flinch ,
@Flinch@hexbear.net avatar

buddy, we’re already on Hexbear, that’s how federation works

HornyOnMain ,
@HornyOnMain@hexbear.net avatar

Tankies are people who main Roadhog, Reinhardt or DVa

IceWallowCum ,
@IceWallowCum@hexbear.net avatar

It’s always just leftists who aren’t western brand “leftists”, i.e. completely averse to action and change.

Libs will demonize all forms of action and analysis of oppression and then wonder why things just keep getting worse despite them doing a lot of useless, performative things. In the lack of a correct theory, it always comes down to “it’s those damn Asians!!!”

CompassInspector ,

There are 2 types:

  1. Marxist-Leninist - followers of the ideology of the Stalinist counter-revolution. These people are still around but are barely relevant anymore since the fall of the USSR.
  2. Terminally online leftoid who thinks they’re a Marxist-Leninist, is really just a soc-dem who hates America and likes soviet aesthetics. Believes a ton of mutually contradictory shit because they don’t take communism seriously and get all their info from memes and other terminally online leftoids.
420blazeit69 ,

The pure (libertarian) socialists’ ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.

parenti

kneel_before_yakub ,
@kneel_before_yakub@hexbear.net avatar

Fuck off back to reddit where western chauvinists are welcome

BurgerPunk ,
@BurgerPunk@hexbear.net avatar

How? By not supporting any AES or any revolution that succeeded?

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

the least deranged westie has logged on

btbt , (edited )
@btbt@hexbear.net avatar

I say as I am evicted from my sewer apartment because the money I get from my McDonalds paycheck has lost 95 percent of its value in a year (I’m so glad that i live in the land of the free and not some tankie shithole like China)

bear_with_a_hammer , to programmerhumor in I don't think Unity is playing anymore.

Not my wife😭

ripcord ,
@ripcord@kbin.social avatar

But what if I am the wife

SpaceNoodle , (edited )

I also choose that guy’s wife

DmMacniel ,

6/10 with rice

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