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Jordan117 , to til in TIL the adjective 'daily' in the lord's prayer is actually written in the original Greek as *epiousion*, which occurs nowhere else in known history

Also known by one of the most badass-sounding terms in lexicography: the HAPAX LEGOMENON

bluGill , to til in TIL the adjective 'daily' in the lord's prayer is actually written in the original Greek as *epiousion*, which occurs nowhere else in known history

Scribes generally do a good job of checking that they didn't make an error in transcription . It like likely that what we have is what was written down around ad40-ad90. (Years approximate). Things were written mostly by eyewitness or those who interviewed eye witnesses. The whole reads like it.

Of course things were translated to Greek, it is unlikely that the words were spoken in that language.

arquebus_x ,

Things were written mostly by eyewitness or those who interviewed eye witnesses.

The scholarly consensus is that this is not the case. The earliest written Gospel (Mark) couldn't have been written any earlier than the occupation of the Temple during the First Jewish Revolt in 66-67, and all indications are that he was writing down traditions that came from his community and others, with no immediate connection to any "eyewitnesses."

(Source: I have a PhD in this stuff.)

brambledog ,

Dr. Dan?

canihasaccount , (edited )

If I remember right, the reason why Mark has scholarly consensus as being written before John is that Mark is least theologically developed, which only really makes sense as evidence for that if you’re starting from the position that the theological bits are later additions. I remember Q and M as evidence for Mark before Matthew or Luke, but is there any evidence that Mark was written before John that doesn’t start with the position that more-developed theology is a later addition?

Why am I being downvoted for asking someone with a PhD in this topic a question about their expertise?

m0darn ,

I’m not the person you were responding to, but found your question interesting.

I re-read most of the Wikipedia article on Markan Priority. Imo These parts of the article sum up the argument nicely.

While Marcan priority easily sees Matthew and Luke building upon Mark by adding new material, Marcan posteriority must explain some surprising omissions. Mark has no infancy narrative nor any version of the Lord’s Prayer, for example.

Nor does Mark have more than a handful of unique pericopes. This is expected under Marcan priority, where Matthew has reused nearly everything he found in Mark, but if Mark was written last, it is harder to explain why so little new material was added.

There are very few passages in Mark with no parallel in either Matthew or Luke, which makes them all the more significant […] If Mark is drawn from Matthew and Luke, it is hard to see why so little material would be added, if anything were going to added at all, and the choice of additions is also rather strange. On the other hand, if Mark was written first, it is easier to see why Matthew and Luke would omit these passages.

DarthBueller ,

Ooooooh - what’s your opinion on the Secret Gospel of Mark? I’m an ex-xtian that copes with the indignity of being indoctrinated into fundamentalism at a young age by devoting way too much of my time into secular lay research into varieties of early Christianity.

DarthBueller ,

PhD in what? Tell me about your opinion on the secret gospel. Not a trap. Just love this shit.

too_high_for_this ,

Literally every statement in your comment is false. Read a fucking book that isn’t the bible.

Flax_vert ,

Flavius Josephus?

expatriado , to til in TIL the adjective 'daily' in the lord's prayer is actually written in the original Greek as *epiousion*, which occurs nowhere else in known history

epiousion was greek for sliced

Bizarroland ,
@Bizarroland@kbin.social avatar

And we've been comparing how good other things are to it ever since

tetris11 ,
@tetris11@lemmy.ml avatar

It means “pan-fried, with an egg in the middle”, you dolt!

too_high_for_this ,

YOU FUCKING HEATHEN

IT MEANS DIPPED IN EGG THEN PAN FRIED

ANYTHING ELSE IS BLASPHEMY AND YOU WILL BURN FOR ETERNITY

Anticorp ,

Judge not, lest thee be judged.

Darkard ,

Egg not, lest thee be egged

Smug ,

I guess they didn’t know the French already invented a word for that

riskable ,
@riskable@programming.dev avatar

Someone will hit you with a pan for saying things like that!

nathanjell ,

Hence the common phrase, best thing since epiousion bread. I thought it was obvious, I guess I’m the only one that drew the conclusion

confluence , to til in TIL the adjective 'daily' in the lord's prayer is actually written in the original Greek as *epiousion*, which occurs nowhere else in known history

If I remember correctly, there’s a group of scholars that translate it as “appropriate.”

tallwookie ,

ah, so unleavened bread for those that prefer that or Wonder Bread for those that prefer that.

arquebus_x ,

Fun story! They came to that conclusion because they discovered a text which had what they believed was another very similar word ("epiousi") that, in context, meant "necessary" or "enough for now." That text was a shopping list.

Then the text got lost for a long time, and when they found it again, new eyes on it realized that they'd misread the word, so it was back to square one.

Aqarius ,

Some denominations, Eastern Orthodox in particular, do translate it as “our needed bread, give us today”

somethingsnappy ,

Give us this appropriate our appropriately bread…

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

Bakers, however, translate it as “our kneaded bread”

scottywh ,

Loaf is all we knead

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

Great song from the flour-power era.

CurlyMoustache ,
@CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

“How do you like your bread?”

“Appropriate”

Leviathan , to til in TIL in Australia the name of the band "AC/DC" is pronounced "Acca Dacca"

No it’s not. That’s the nickname they have over there.

Sargteapot ,

Thus making it true …

HerbalGamer ,

thats like saying Paul Gascoigne is pronounced " Gazza" in the UK

Sargteapot ,

Because it is isn’t it?

StorminNorman ,

Nickname isn’t the name though. We use “AC/DC” and “ACCA Dacca” pretty much just regularly as each other down here.

Oneser ,

Everyone arguing dumb things here because of a dumb title. Pronounce = how it phonetically sounds, Nickname = alternative or shortened name. They are not synonyms :)

givesomefucks , to til in TIL the adjective 'daily' in the lord's prayer is actually written in the original Greek as *epiousion*, which occurs nowhere else in known history

It was an oral history in one language, written down into another by low quality scribes, then translated a couple more times.

Which is why it’s always hilarious people say they have to take any translation literally.

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

But you don’t understand! This translation was divinely inspired! Every other one is an act of heresy and blasphemy!

roguetrick ,

Catholics go one step further. Both the translation and the tradition of interpreting the translation is divinely inspired. Protestants sometimes vaguely point to something like that but most realize that if they follow the logic train of sacred tradition they should be Catholic or Orthodox.

fubo ,

The book was produced by the tradition. If the tradition is junk, then why would the book not be junk too?

This is one thing that atheists often get wrong about Catholicism. Catholics don’t believe sola scriptura, the Protestant principle that all Christian tradition is to be rooted in the text of the Bible. Thus, “Bible contradictions” and the like are not rebuttals to Catholic views the way they are to “fundamentalist” Protestant views.

roguetrick ,

I'm an atheist ex protestant, but I generally agree with that theological view. I think Protestantism is very inconsistent in that regard and most arguments amount to hand waving. In the end, though, all denominations pick and choose when councils had sufficient authority to be binding tradition. Unless they're gnostics or some other type of anti-pauIine Christian guess.

RaivoKulli ,

Talking about protestantism is a singular thing, lol

HeartyBeast ,
@HeartyBeast@kbin.social avatar

You could have added nuance to an interesting discussion. But instead you went for snark.

RaivoKulli ,

Correct

Mouselemming ,

Unless they realize that each new interpretation is Divinely inspired. In which case the most recent one is the truest, Tradition is dead, and also the Divine changes Her mind a lot.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

The Jehovah’s Witnesses have an update process they call “progressive revelation” so that they can keep retconning their doomsday prophecies.

Anticorp ,

Evangelicals are all about that inspired, literal, complete, and inerrant word of God stuff. 99% of all evangelical churches have that as a mission statement on their website.

reverendsteveii ,

This translation was divinely inspired.”

“Oh, dope, so you’re gonna sell all your stuff and give the money to the poor?”

“Okay, listen…”

Xariphon ,

It's a two-thousand-year-long multilingual game of Telephone. How much is it even possible is left from what was originally written? (And none of it contemporary to when it supposedly happened.)

arquebus_x ,

Textual critics are fairly confident that a fair amount of the texts of the New Testament were reliably copied until we get to the first extant manuscripts, and for the stuff that is very obviously messed up, they have a decent set of analytical tools that help them retroject the likeliest original wording. Not perfect, but decent.

riskable ,
@riskable@programming.dev avatar

And now we have even better scientific tools that allow us to retroject all the miracles, incorrect dates, absurdly inaccurate numbers/measurements, and the authenticity (very foundation) of it’s stories. Proving that it is all fiction.

Reminder: Until the 1800s no Christian believed that the world was older than about 6000. If you went back in time and spoke to literally any Christian at that time and said you were both Christian and believed that the earth was billions of years old they would definitely say that you’re a liar: You’re not a Christian. You would be declared a heretic.

GreyEyedGhost ,

There is a difference between saying that one translation is more or less accurate than another and saying that the story that is written is true or not. Don’t let your feelings about the subject impact your assessment of the literary work around it.

riskable ,
@riskable@programming.dev avatar

You’re right: As a literary work is absolute garbage. The chapters are all over the place and it constantly repeats itself, telling the same stories in a slightly different way with no added information or useful insights.

It even makes it incredibly difficult to suspend your disbelief by stating impossible things as simple facts with no explanation whatsoever like someone being swallowed by a whale, fitting two of every animal on earth into a single boat, etc.

1 out of 10 ⭐

GreyEyedGhost ,

Exactly how much of this has to do with the history of when various parts were written and how accurately copies were made?

Flax_vert ,

The texts travelled all over the East and into Europe. So we can compare them. They were very clearly written in their time.

Rouxibeau ,

All fakes. The real texts only come in hats.

Hexarei ,
@Hexarei@programming.dev avatar

That’s not how translation works though. The modern translations come directly from the original Greek and Aramaic.

CarbonIceDragon ,
@CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social avatar

This gives me the odd realization that, were a method to travel through time ever discovered, there’s a chance one use-case for it might be a religious group traveling back to the origin point of their religious texts to correct errors that have made their way in since the original versions were written or spoken.

prowess2956 ,

As in, changing the history to match their text? 🙃

BluesF ,

That’s a novel right there baby

GreyEyedGhost ,

It’s been written. I can’t remember the name or author, but the crucifixion was very popular, and in the story may have accounted for the large crowds that day.

Glowstick ,

But then you could just go back and witness the events that the book tries to describe, so the book itself becomes irrelevant outside of just archaeology phd work.

riskable ,
@riskable@programming.dev avatar

Imagining the idea of a deeply religious person going back in time over and over again, going further and further back looking for Adam and Eve and finding very modern-looking humans going all the way back 200,000 years…

Nah, they’d probably give up after going back around 50,000 years and accidentally infecting the entire human population with the common cold, nearly killing off the species.

Wiz ,

Written down by the Wikipedians of thee day, complete with edit wars.

MargotRobbie , to til in TIL in Australia the name of the band "AC/DC" is pronounced "Acca Dacca"
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, they’re an Australian band, and saying “Acca Dacca” is funny.

grue ,

TIL AC/DC isn’t Scottish or English (although, in my defense, apparently almost all the members were).

MargotRobbie , (edited )
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

It’s fine, nobody ever think I’m Australian either…😭

conasatuta ,

Go home Margo Robbie impersonator your drunk

MargotRobbie ,
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

First of all, if you are going to accuse me of being fake, at least get my name right, that’s esteemed Academy Award nominated character actress Margot Robbie to you.

Second of all, of course I’m drunk.

FrostbyteIX ,
@FrostbyteIX@lemmy.world avatar

Good to see you in the field Harley Q.

MargotRobbie ,
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

Yay

ours ,

Hollywood without their secret Australians/Kiwi actors would be in shambles. Well, worse shambles.

ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

Dirty deeds and the Dunder chief!

trk , to til in TIL in Australia the name of the band "AC/DC" is pronounced "Acca Dacca"
@trk@aussie.zone avatar

Unless you’re over excited about winning a competition, in which case it’s pronounced “ADDC… ADAC… ACCD… AADAC”

youtu.be/y4om5UT5iXY?si=D294AuNeS9C4Ey6r

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Swim , to til in TIL in Australia the name of the band "AC/DC" is pronounced "Acca Dacca"

rotten ronnies

aberrate_junior_beatnik , to til in TIL in Australia the name of the band "AC/DC" is pronounced "Acca Dacca"

They’re pulling our collective legs, right? This has to be a bit

reeen ,

My FIL says acca dacka about 90% of the time, sorry

metaStatic ,

This is the reason I used Ack to mean awesome when I was like 5.

It never caught on and I blame Akai televisions for that.

ABCDE ,

Not Mars Attacks?

slazer2au ,

ACK ACK ACK

slazer2au ,

No we aren’t mate.

Psythik ,

Next you’re going to tell me that you put butter and sprinkles on toast and call it “fairy bread”.

CosmicApe ,
@CosmicApe@kbin.social avatar

Anyone toasting their bread before putting the 100s and 1000s needs to be shot

Mojojojo1993 ,

Upvote for fairy bread. Poor man’s cake

OscarRobin ,

“Nah mate”

Sunstream ,
@Sunstream@lemmy.world avatar

“Yeah, nah”

“Nah, yeah”

Killing_Spark , to til in TIL in Australia the name of the band "AC/DC" is pronounced "Acca Dacca"

Needs more dakka

Norgur ,

Get the Mekboyz!

MrRazamataz , to til in TIL in Australia the name of the band "AC/DC" is pronounced "Acca Dacca"
@MrRazamataz@lemmy.razbot.xyz avatar

“AC/DC” is pronounced one letter at a time, though the band are colloquially known as “Acca Dacca” in Australia.

Not really, it’s like calling McDonald’s “maccies” (or “maccas” in Australia I think)?

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

That’s correct. But I’m still confused. I’m from a “maccas” country (they actually use the term themselves).

Do other countries call it “maccies”?

blargerer ,

I've heard MickyDee's rarely, normally its just McDonalds, but otherwise only Macca's from Australians.

SpaceNoodle ,

“Mickey D’s” was an early '90s thing IIRC

ares35 ,
@ares35@kbin.social avatar

"rotten ronnie's" was another, from the 80s. but probably only in the u.s.

nathanjell ,

Yeah, no. In Canada it’s maybe referred to as McDee’s, Micky Dee’s, McDonald’s, but nothing similar to Macca’s

hoodatninja ,
@hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

Yeah, no.

Was that really necessary?

nathanjell ,

In Canadian English “yeah, no”, “yeah, no, yeah”, “no, yeah”, and “yeah, no, for sure” are just sayings (here’s a random reference I found). I just meant “yeah, like you suggest, no, other countries might not use the term”

Spuddlesv2 ,

We enjoy a good “yeah nah” down under too.

bibliotectress ,

I thought it sounded more like “Yeah narr”

Marsupial ,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

Nah that’s kiwis.

They say stuff like “where’s the car” whereas we say it more like “where’s the car”.

Plopp ,

I can’t even make out that first one. Complete gibberish.

Instigate ,

Nah, we don’t use hard r’s at the end of our words like in American English. For instance, our way of pronouncing ‘car’ is more like ‘cah’ or just ‘ca’. The way you’ve written it is basically Pirate English.

bibliotectress ,

My desperate hope to someday meet Australian pirates has been horribly crushed.

hoodatninja ,
@hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

Huh TIL my bad then. I read it as a more sarcastic opening.

metaStatic ,

Yeah, Nah.

ogoflowgo ,

Rotten Ronnie’s.

Kowowow ,

Closest is probly timmees

coldv ,

As an Australian living in Canada, yes it’s Macca’s in Australia, but a Canadian friend also told me they have McDicks.

swab148 ,
@swab148@startrek.website avatar

I think he was describing something else

gerbler ,

Seconded. I’ll still habitually call it Maccas and my Canadian friends slowly adopt the term. I actually had a moment of doubt that it was an Australian thing for a while because of that.

Who knows maybe in 20 years it’ll be ubiquitous.

Skaryon ,

In my part of Germany we like to say “Mäckes” which I suppose is maccas

RQG ,
@RQG@lemmy.world avatar

Around here people call it McDoof. Not sure if that’s a local thing or not.

tony ,

I’ve heard McDuff, Maccies, McDs and just plain McDonalds.

TheGreenGolem ,

“Meki” in Hungary

maxwisecracks ,
@maxwisecracks@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • dogslayeggs ,

    In my part of Germany we like to say “Mäckes” which I suppose is maccas

    Around here people call it McDoof. Not sure if that’s a local thing or not.

    I’ve heard McDuff, Maccies, McDs and just plain McDonalds.

    “Meki” in Hungary

    Mäci in Austria

    Well, damn, now I know what I’m getting for lunch.

    christophski ,

    UK yes, maccies

    Dave ,
    @Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

    Oh wow, good to know, thanks!

    ObviouslyNotBanana ,
    @ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

    In Sweden it’s often called Donken (the Donk)

    Dave ,
    @Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

    That’s awesome! What does Donken mean?

    TheGreenGolem ,

    The donk

    Mardukas ,

    Quite literally, I would say.

    Dave ,
    @Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

    But what does Donk mean? How did that come to be a term for McDonald’s?

    Marsupial ,
    @Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

    McDonkalds.

    TheGreenGolem ,

    The first iteration of Badonka Donk.

    ObviouslyNotBanana ,
    @ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

    Badonk McDonk.

    ObviouslyNotBanana ,
    @ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s a pet name for McDonald’s. It didn’t have a meaning prior.

    Dave ,
    @Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

    Do you know the origin? Maccas, mackies, mickyDs, McFat, you can make assumptions about how these came about. Is there an origin story for Donken?

    ObviouslyNotBanana ,
    @ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

    There’s no real known origin as far as I’m aware. There’s nothing called a Donk either, but the -en specifies that it’s the Donk we’re talking about and not “a Donk” (en Donk). Honestly it’s probably just something like “McDonalds>McDonken>Donken”. It’s shorter and gives it a personality.

    Langoddsen ,

    In Norway some call it Den gyldne måke = The Golden Seagull

    arefx ,

    I’m calling McDonald’s the golden seagull now

    Marsupial ,
    @Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

    Of all of them this is the most confusing.

    Are seagulls arch shaped in Norway?

    Langoddsen ,
    MrRazamataz ,
    @MrRazamataz@lemmy.razbot.xyz avatar

    In the UK I hear all sorts. Maccies, Maccy Deez, etc.

    ShunkW ,

    Maccy Deez Nuts? I’ll show myself out.

    V0uges ,
    @V0uges@jlai.lu avatar

    Here we call it MacGros (roughly translates as MacFat).

    bcrab ,

    Yeah, it’s a nickname. We all know it’s “A.C.D.C” but we say Acca Dacca cause that’s what Aussies do.

    boogetyboo ,
    @boogetyboo@aussie.zone avatar

    It’s kinda more fun to say it that way with a bogan accent too (that’s like redneck or chav depending on where you’re from) ,

    ‘oi daz? Youse know where me accadacca tape is? I’m farkin frothin for some back in black. Also, give us a dart’

    ^not how we talk, just a fun exaggeration.

    StorminNorman ,

    We 100% talk that way. Stop trying to sanitise us for the rest of the world!

    Instigate ,

    Mate, I worked at Bunnings for seven years and I can tell you for a fact, there are plenty of people out there who actually talk like that. I’d put it on when I was working the trade yard so that tradies/handymen would (ironically) take me more seriously.

    boogetyboo ,
    @boogetyboo@aussie.zone avatar

    Oh, I mean, I know. But I don’t want to misrepresent the whole country. But I too have caught public transport.

    jrbaconcheese ,

    I read this with an Australian accent, I hope it was close to how you sound

    Pregnenolone ,

    Never say maccies again

    Psythik ,

    Never say “Maccas” again and we’ll call it even.

    Cheez ,

    Not an apt comparison considering McDonalds for a while signed some restaurants as Maccas, and the McDonalds rewards app in Australia is literally called MyMaccas.

    DarkDarkHouse ,
    @DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Yeah, but those names came after the local usage. But to the point, I’d wager the majority of Aussies who know AC/DC and McDonalds would understand Acca Dacca and Maccas.

    em2 ,
    @em2@lemmy.ml avatar
    Viking_Hippie ,

    Ugh, multinational conglomerates pretending to be hip to the local lingo is the fucking worst 🤦

    StorminNorman ,

    I mean, to be fair, we probably started calling it Macca’s about 15mins after the first store opened.

    Nath ,
    @Nath@aussie.zone avatar

    In this case, they literally had to. The name “maccas” is so ubiquitous in Australia they needed to trademark it and start using it. Otherwise, some genius could have opened a burger joint called “Maccas” and been completely fine.

    Sunstream ,
    @Sunstream@lemmy.world avatar

    I think we were the ones who bullied them into it, to be quite honest. I’m not sure I’m even physically capable of pronouncing the entirety of the name ‘McDonald’s’.

    fbmac , to til in TIL Peter Molyneux failed his first game so badly he started a baked bean export company, which got confused with a software firm and kickstarted his development career
    @fbmac@lemmy.fbmac.net avatar

    Bullfrog was my all time favorite game company, they made:

    • Syndicate
    • Magic Carpet
    • Theme Park
    • Theme Hospital
    • Dungeon Keeper

    After EA bought Bullfrog he moved to Lionhead and did the games people are criticizing on this thread. They are probably younger, and didn’t see his games when he was at his peak

    JulesTheModest , to moviesandtv in On the Beach 1959

    It’s pretty startling now, imagine what thr reaction was on release!

    Fred Asatire is my favorite actor, so funny to see him as a scientist.

    jet OP , to moviesandtv in On the Beach 1959

    I really like the fact everyone took it seriously, there wasn’t over the top drama, or adventure like in many modern films.

    There is still time… brother.

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