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funkless_eck

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funkless_eck ,

no, like SQL

funkless_eck ,

over-react to being clawed. they learn not to hurt you that way.

funkless_eck ,

I agree. this is exactly the kind of behavior I got before getting the shit beaten out of me in school in the 80s/90s for not covering up my sexuality well enough (bi), nearly lost a thumb in one incident, nearly lost consciousness from being choked in another.

Took me 20 years to work out my trauma and internalized homophobia — and still can’t watch TV shows that feature high school bullying.

This would trigger me (no pun intended) pretty hard.

funkless_eck ,

this gonna be an unpopular take, but your mobile phone is worse for privacy than an Alexa or Google Home. And most people’s PCs are worse than their phones.

funkless_eck ,

Sticking with “the average pc” and “the average phone” — I’d say there are more vectors of vulnerability in the wide arrange of sites and programs the average person interacts with on their PC than there is on a phone, as well as a PC being a better target to compromise than someone’s phone.

Happy to be proved wrong but I rarely hear about someone’s phone being randomwared, botnetted, remote accessed etc

funkless_eck ,

so do laptops, and most pcs will have a webcam and mic attached.

funkless_eck ,

Well it depends whether active usage is a vector in how secure a device is. If security is exposure to risk / frequency of use, you are correct, same with exposure to risk / percent of global ownership (66% smart phone, 50% personal computer), but if we’re talking about any given device with an even chance it’s a pc or smartphone, I’m willing to bet (although I don’t have proof) that any given smartphone is slightly more secure.

funkless_eck ,

I mean “average person” can mean a lot of different things, but the plurality of any given person in the world owns both.

funkless_eck ,

for my original point, I’d say that an Alexa is a single point of access for giving your info to law enforcement, whereas a phone has multiple (ie each app and website) and pcs have more software and less stringent access policies (ie less likely to have facial recognition or fingerprint recognition as the barrier to access) and you can just open the case and take out the hard drive much easier.

funkless_eck ,

It’s the wrong question. The question isn’t “why shouldn’t people get paid more” but “why should profit even exist?”

Profit exists only as excess value and does nothing to help anyone except those already so rich they can’t spend it.

funkless_eck ,

I’d argue a meritocracy is impossible. how does one determine the best person at writing marketing copy, or mowing lawns, or cleaning gutters? You end up creating a race to the bottom of speed, price and lack of safety or security. Only the most ruthless, manipulative, careless end up winning.

Profit is excess — so it’s not a natural byproduct. No one ever lowers prices, but you can, no one ever splits out excess wealth to workers but you can. It’s not impossible.

I’d ask you does captialism create a better product? We’re here on Lemmy, so its especially pertinent to ask whether reddit was better as a free product for the benefit of everyone, or is it better as a for-profit model with ads, gold, awards, data vending, paid tiers etc?

Same for privatization of railroads, water, power. When is an example of (long term) improvement of private ownership?

Same for Healthcare, why is it better to have more expensive service, less access, more barriers but a better paid middleman?

funkless_eck ,

you can’t paraphrase the poem and not link it!

poets.org/poem/naming-cats

funkless_eck ,

same with me and a mildly famous banjo player (lol)

funkless_eck ,

as a bisexual, either, both or none works for me.

funkless_eck ,

for reference that’d be taking a three minute break after working for 4 months without eating, sleeping or even pausing, and then working another 4 months without moving from your chair.

funkless_eck ,

Professional marketer here, all of the unsub rates in this thread look nominal (0.1-0.2%).

Also, when we run third party distribution campaigns, a large amount of people, I can look at their hotjar journey and watch in real time their mouse movements as they download a whitepaper, then we call them and they say they never downloaded it.

It’s a mix of lying to the annoying marketing company (I get it), and just plain forgetting you did it.

I switched from Hearthstone Deck Tracker to Firestone Deck Tracker yesterday, I’m not entirely sure if I checked to see I wasn’t signing up for marketing emails, it’s that easy.

Not to mention, I can buy just about any non-EU email address i want on demand.

funkless_eck ,

yep

ZoomInfo, Apollo, LinkedIn Sales Navigator, Lusha, Salesloft, Gong, Cognism, Gartner, G2, Voila Norbert, Hunter, FindThatLead, Prospect io, Hubspot Sales Hub…

Some examples, “Get me the email address of the VP of ITOps at every company who had series C and beyond funding in Q1 of 2022” - done. “Get me the email of the Head of Business Intelligence at Acme Ltd’s Ohio office” - done. “Get me the email of Tim Smith, he works in Sales at Nike” - done.

Roughly $3/person

funkless_eck ,

yes. Some of the data is anonymized but there are ways around it (i.e. someone downloaded something at 2am and they were the only user, I can work out it’s you from the time stamps)

But I can watch your mouse move around the screen as if I was filming you with my phone (obviously only your mouse pointer, I can’t see your other windows or into your bedroom etc)

edit: you were asking something slightly different, yes I absolutely can see if you clicked on my email.

For some big important people, I can even get a push notification to my phone if you visit my webpage.

funkless_eck ,

thats funny but if you gave me a real name and a fake email, it gets run through data normalization and I’d likely get your real email.

If you just give me the company name, fake name and email, it’s possible that if you met our qualification procedure, we’d just dig out the best looking person at the company (head of department, procurement manager, vice president?) and start contacting them based on “institutional buying intent.”

funkless_eck ,

I see “email is dead” a lot. It’s not. I use it every day and so do most people.

It’d be a nightmare to conduct everything I do via email via whatsapp or Jira or Instagram messenger…

funkless_eck ,

nowadays, fwiw, a lot of software filters out scam, accidental, bot, and rageclicks, because you want to prioritize actual buying intent.

funkless_eck ,

I mean I’m emailing you twice a week at your work email address for 6 weeks about a product to help you with reducing costs on a certain business function, and making sure you see ads for my company when you would see ads for a different company, and someone pays me money to do it.

I dont touch any personal emails, so I don’t really consider it immoral to email you about your job at your job.

funkless_eck ,

You are giving me explicit consent, though, as payment for downloading a whitepaper. Your options are to opt out at point of sign up, or at any point after that, or, of course, not download the paper

Or if you’ve been prospected, I have to maintain a reason for emailing you in the CRM, and I’d invite you to consider the ramifications of “businesses can’t contact other businesses.” What if you need your windows cleaned? Or your fleet vehicles need to have their tires checked? Or you need a new warehouse to expand your business?

You personally in your every day role may not want that, but businesses, in general, do.

I am emailing you about your job if you are in charge of expensive ($10MM+) software applications and are interested in downsizing your compute and storage costs. Are you those things? If you are a CDAO of a billion dollar company, you probably would like to consider the product I work for.

funkless_eck , (edited )

if I check a box that says…

in this hypothetical, you did. It doesn’t specifically say the word “bullshit” but it does give you an opt-out, both on the sign up and the thank you page, and in the immediate bounce back confirmation and in every subsequent email.

your shitty industry

supply chain software? have you considered that everything you’ve purchased in the last 25 years at least was monitored by supply chain software?

if I need that I’ll ask my peers

you personally know the owner of several fleet maintenance companies? What if there’s a better fleet maintenance company that you don’t know that would be better for your company? I fail to see how “ask someone you know” works at the scale of billion dollar businesses.

none of you drill down to “this person never responds positively to spam”

I’m afraid your mistaken, that is one of the factors the aforementioned software can segment based on, plus we report on it too

we’re having a conversation about the [marketing industry] in general

then I’m afraid we’re talking cross-purposes. I am talking specifically about my process and experiences. You may personally hate all marketing, but I think a more realistic take is that taking products to market is an essential part of the economy

you’re doing people a service

im not saying I’m saving lives, I’m saying that in return for money the company I work for will reduce your compute spend on cloud processing. yes, that is literally a service. how else would you define it? Same as if you pay someone to mow your lawn, they are doing you a service in return for money.

I’ll need to scroll back up to see your comments on the 12 emails I’ll edit it in.

edit: i don’t see any comments specifically about 12 emails but you do say “spamming me.”

This will probably anger you more, but if we’re talking specifics then that is compliant with what the law says is or is not “spam.” So, colloquially, it could be considered spam, but legally it is not.

However, I would say all I’ve done is describe how the process works, (edit: for example you say I am bragging, I am not, if such clarification is needed, I am neutrally explaing the processes I am employed to undertake) I think you’ve gotten way angrier than is justified and blown it a bit out of proportion. I understand getting an advert for a new service is mildly annoying but I don’t think it’s worth getting angry enough to insult someone over.

I would remind you that all I’m doing is a fairly boring office job, sending emails to other office jobs because they work specific jobs that my company specializes in helping.

funkless_eck ,

its really not, it sounds like a lot but compared to BoFu activities where a BDR will call you every couple of days, it’s on the low end.

funkless_eck ,

there’s no way to briefly cover the breadth and depth of all go-to-market strategies though. B2B, B2C, N4P, and then by vertical, by segment, by persona, by horizontal, by business unit, country, technographics, firmographics, psychographics… there are as many different methods as there are companies, and in many cases several methods within a business unit within a company.

I know it’s tempting to say “I hate all marketing,” but I’d ask you to consider that sometimes we do like it — when a new restaurant opens that looks good, when the new series of our favorite show comes out, when a new game or movie comes out, a new Warhammer collectable, Pokémon card, muscle car, the latest match of the sports team we support…

There must be some profit-driven entertainment you enjoy and it’s unlikely you were motivated to enjoy it by knowing the creators personally.

funkless_eck ,

I dont know what you mean by “the way i’m talking about it” I’m just describing the function to someone who was unfamiliar with the technology.

Yes, if you deliberately block a piece of software it doesn’t work. I was using “I can see your” to mean “I can see any given person’s” with the caveat of that person not deliberately blocking it, I figured that was taken as read.

There’s more to building out this kind of functionality, including dynamic IDs on clickable elements, A/B testing colors, CTA text, dynamic personalization, client mini-sites, first- and last- click attribution, full funnel attribution, lead scoring and so on…

None of it is crazy if you know how to do it, same with fixing a car, building a cabinet, coding an app or cooking a meal.

However, it’s interesting to me that you scorn how obvious this technology is and easy to use, and then close that most people don’t know about email pixels, cookies (or cookieless server side tracking), and lead scoring. But to call it “scammy” like I’m doing something that literally every business does, including mom and pop stores and amateur dramatic societies, is a little unfair.

Don’t shoot the messenger, I’m just talking about what happens in general terms.

funkless_eck ,

I really think a lot of people here are blowing this out of proportion. I don’t see how whether testing if red or green is better is “evil.”

Or knowing if people click on the button on the top level menu, or the hero banner is “evil.”

I think that’s a touch hyperbolic.

But also, you say “personalized landing page” as if that’s different. But you just designated “tracking” as “evil” - that’s what personalization is. What you proposed as an alternative is just as “evil” as the general functions of a website.

funkless_eck ,

Respectfully, I disagree. Procurement is a large arm of many businesses with a supply chain, and if you blocked buying teams from speaking to vendors there’d be an uproar.

You’re absolutely certain none of the people at your company of Director level and above have any third party onboarding calls, nor cost reduction mandates that consider third party tools? I am extremely doubtful that is the case.

And, furthermore, I wouldn’t be surprised if the company you work for goes harder than I do at mine. What’s your send frequency to MQLs?

funkless_eck ,

I’m curious about this. Can you name a B2B company that doesn’t?

funkless_eck ,

well then the context matters as it’s not 100s of emails, it’s 12 emails to one person, and that person either filled in a form or had met a specific set of dozens of criteria (as mentioned, firmographic, technographic, psychographic, in some cases based on SEC 10K/Q filings, in others based on M&A or hiring announcements) for us to consider approaching them.

We are talking about me emailing 3 people at your company, tops, during work hours, about specifically their jobs.

funkless_eck ,

it’s not the legal maximum it’s the industry defined benchmark as affecting deliverability, at which point you want to disengage from sending to avoid a negative impact to your domain score as a legitimate sender.

You may dislike that but it’s set as a benchmark because its considered de rigeur. To do otherwise affects the competitive ability of the company against its vertical competitors.

Now, again, thats not me personally but rather all email marketing (with some horizontal and vertical adjustments, e.g. industry / NAICS)

To me it’s the same as no sales assistant wants to ask you if you want to super-size your meal, or sign up for the credit card, or join their rewards program: but you have to do it because it’s part of the job.

funkless_eck ,

I’m willing to bet there are very few sites you interact with that don’t use this technology in a way, including Lemmy.

funkless_eck ,

but then you just get bludgeoned with a dildo by someone possessed by the ghost of Keanu Reeves

funkless_eck ,

this a blatant ploy by Bud Light Lime to try to sell a single bottle

funkless_eck ,

foiled again!

funkless_eck ,

I wish you all the best and hope you’re doing better now, and I mean this with respect but it’s pretty fucking funny that the answer to “hmm maybe I jerk off too much” is “do horse”

funkless_eck ,

You’re forgetting that it’s not like we go to Rowling’s house to get her books, or even download the manuscript P2P from her personal server.

Someone’s exploited labor printed the folio, bound it, packed it, shipped it, stocked it, advertised it, sold it to you and put it into a bag…

And more, cut down the trees to make the paper, mixed the ink, delivered the reams and the vats to the factory…

funkless_eck ,

of course you can slice it any way you like. I’m not saying no one should be an author, but I am saying billionaires aren’t made without exploitation somewhere

funkless_eck ,

I have done things that are hard work for less compensation than it deserves and been happy to give it freely (ie charity, volunteering), but that doesn’t mean we can’t examine the power structure, even if the plurality of people are happy inside it.

funkless_eck ,

pam.jpg

funkless_eck ,

exactly the kind of comment I would expect from a Factorio player 😤

funkless_eck ,

well what you describe is how Normal executions go. Doctors won’t do it so it’s done by prison guards with no medical training and is often so disgusting the witnesses need counseling

funkless_eck ,

well if money is your concern, unfortunately it’s more expensive to kill people than to imprison them for life.

funkless_eck ,

well then you’re into the debate of who can be killed for what and for why. pretty much it always leads back to the same place.

funkless_eck ,

in my practical experience, thats not the case. it may be the case at $10B+ companies, but at <$99MM companies it’s still much safer to draw a salary.

funkless_eck ,

I was just casually commenting that I don’t want to be in charge of a company because I’d rather the risk be on someone else’s shoulder, and then when it was implied CEOs take no risk I clarified that the type of immune to failure CEO you’re talking about are different from the average business.

Why are there so many conspiracy theories regarding soy beans?

Dear lemmy, someone very close to my heart is starting to fall into conspiracy theories. It’s heartbreaking. Among other things, he has now told me that soy beans are not supposed to be consumed by human beings and is convinced that despite the literal centuries of human soy bean cultivation and consumption, we shouldn’t eat...

funkless_eck ,

for clarity they contain (sp as this is off the top of my head) phytoestrogen. Which is as similar to estrogen as carbon dioxide is to hydrogen peroxide.

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