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assassin_aragorn ,

ITT: People not reading the article acting smugly superior, not realizing they’re completely incorrect

TokenBoomer ,

I know, right?

Nacktmull ,

What is the legal excuse for this piracy?

Rapidcreek OP ,

Try reading the articles and comments.

Nacktmull ,

Meh … I had hoped you would summarize for me

FlowVoid ,

It’s an American ship. They can’t transport Iranian oil for the same reason they can’t transport cocaine. It’s illegal.

The DoJ told the company they were breaking the law. The company admitted wrongdoing and told the captain to turn around and bring the oil to the US. By handing over the oil, the company hopes their fines will be reduced.

No naval forces were involved. No piracy, no interception at sea. Just a company trying to get out of hot water after it was busted

Nacktmull ,

Alright, now it makes more sense, thank you for the kind explanation!

Franzia ,

If you don’t wanna read, but you wanna comment, that’s really poor behavior. That’s unfair to everyone else.

Nacktmull ,

Apologies, I read the headline though …

sturmblast ,

they are enforcing sanctions

Nacktmull ,

I see, that is of course always a good excuse

charonn0 ,
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

The company plead guilty to violating US law and agreed to forfeit the oil.

Nacktmull ,

I see, thank you for being so kind to explain!

erranto ,

The world’s most heavily militarized bully can’t help but interfere with other sovereign countries businesses.

Pussydogger ,

We are pirate and rob others

legion02 ,

It’s like no one reads the stories anymore. There was no military involvement here. The company was notified through legal channels they they were in violation and willingly relinquished the ship/oil.

mlg ,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

US navy commiting piracy on the open seas because they’re the only substantial naval force that exists globally

Seriously though, they do this to Argentina too lmao.

So much for free trade

Pussydogger ,

Its only free when I say so

sturmblast ,

read the article

FlowVoid ,

It’s not piracy when the ship literally sailed to Texas and delivered the oil as part of a plea bargain deal.

The US Navy was not involved.

MrBusinessMan ,

This is egregious big government overreach impeding business and free trade

EffortlessEffluvium ,

Username checks out

checksout ,

Surely does.

Franzia ,

The free market of ideas decided fuck around with human rights and find out you’ve made a powerful enemy.

OldPain ,

It’s countering money laundering by the IRGC. Read up.

MrBusinessMan ,

I can’t stand for the free market being impeded by big government tyranny

WilliamTheWicked ,

Free market??? What the hell world are you living in?

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

He’s a troll. Ignore him.

assassin_aragorn ,

I hate that there’s some people you can now easily recognize by name as idiots and trolls. But I guess that’s how it goes.

Franzia ,

His name is MrBusinessMan. Its a joke account. Just read those comments as a joke, he’s making fun of the wealthy.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Money laundering for the sale of this oil. The money laundering is required because of US-imposed sanctions.

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

You’re talking to a troll. Don’t engage.

OldPain ,

Thanks for the heads up. They’re everywhere on this site apparently. Playing fucking mind games and spreading misinformation on every post.

God Bless America! 🇺🇸

jarfil , (edited )

Well, isn’t that what they said? With universal free trade, there would be no concept of dirty money, no money laundering, no need to counter anything… /s

OldPain ,

It’s not even close to what the person I responded to said. What the hell are you talking about?

jarfil ,

Sorry for not being clear, let me fix that real quick.

OldPain ,

Lmao. Got me.

Ibex0 ,

I’m not sure how long the Chinese are going to tolerate this. They can surely seize American assets in retaliation. All because the orange guy had to replace the JCPOA Iran nuclear deal with nothing but sanctions.

Rapidcreek OP ,

That’s about a two hour supply of oil to the Chinese. Since it wasn’t delivered they don’t pay for it.

afraid_of_zombies ,

This is why when I buy oil shipments from Iran I pay on delivery.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

How long has the orange guy been gone?

afraid_of_zombies ,

Almost three years now, two of those years were with the DNC holding Congress and President.

The more you know.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

They cant keep blaming the guy thats been gone 3 years, when the new one has had a trifecta and did nothing. Other than keep most of Trumps worst policies in place.

Franzia ,

I mean we have held this sanction against Iran for 40 years, Trump left the nuclear deal and we are trying to rejoin it. These newest sanctions make sense in the context of uprisings in Iran, and the nuclear deal.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

Sanctions are ecocide

Cavemanfreak ,

With Manchin and Sinema there you can’t say that they’ve had majority in the senate at least…

Ibex0 ,

Holding Congress doesn’t mean much unfortunately, when you can’t sign a treaty because one party opposes on a party line.

Also, the Iranians simply won’t negotiate when the next guy might reinstate sanctions. The last guy screwed us.

Franzia ,

All because the orange guy had to replace the JCPOA Iran nuclear deal with nothing but sanctions.

Biden has maintained and increased those sanctions in response to Iran maintaining and increasing their human rights abuses. This isn’t a fuck up.

Chinese are going to tolerate this.

Remember, China has the upper hand in trade with Russia, and extracting value from that. Iran is blending its oil with Malaysia, and so China is paying a reduced rate for contraband oil there, too.

zephyreks ,

Oh no! Not human rights abuses!

Better check on the US’ other partners including Saudi Arabia, Israel, France…

Franzia ,

I mean… yea… but Saudi Arabia is only our partner if we have Trump as president, Israel we are starting to see discussion about it. Obviously it is egregious but we don’t have enough left wing politicians to stop it just yet. And France? They aren’t even worse than the US itself! ;3

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

You can tell from the comments in this post that Americans are immune to propaganda.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

In their view propaganda only comes from rouge nations, and their superior intellect safeguards them from the impact of foreign propaganda. Despite living in the worlds most propagandized country.

Serinus ,

… Orange man didn’t get elected on his wit and charm.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

Im referring to democrats that see propaganda everywhere except their own back yard

ArmokGoB ,

I somehow don’t think the US is more propagandized than, say, North Korea. I want a source on this or I’m just going to assume you’re pulling it out of your ass.

Lemminary ,

I’m gonna go with that it’s typically pulled out of their ass for some sweet dunking points

TokenBoomer ,

You might enjoy this.

PipedLinkBot ,

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

piped.video/Y2EPgix5_5w?si=E2iIDAd-oimz0t6X

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.

TokenBoomer ,

You might enjoy this.

MrBusinessMan , (edited )

Yeah I’m pretty sure if I were being propagandized I would have heard about it on the news. In North Korea they believe that Kim Jong Un doesn’t poop. And I know that’s true because I saw it on the news.

zephyreks ,

Just from the sheer fact that Americans probably consume more media than North Koreans, you would expect Americans to be more propagandized than North Koreans.

Saltblue ,

There are two types of propaganda, the north Korean one which boils down to the party and leader who can do nothing wrong, and as a result there is only one truth, because the government controls it.

The western method is to flood the person with a constant barrage of information, stimulus, and dopamine, it doesn’t matters the subject “the conservatives are sucking off and swallowing the loads of corporations again” “some trannny will ask you to call him she, and eat your children” in this case the truth doesn’t matter either, as truth has become another commodity to be bought as capital demands, you can buy your own truth, you can even get your own prophet, for the low price of 5 each month.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

The western method is to flood the person with a constant barrage of information, stimulus, and dopamine

As depicted in Brave New World by Aldous Huxley

Saltblue ,

I find it funny that the east (Russia, China, NK, Myanmar etc) follows the 1984 manual, the west yeah,

As depicted in Brave New World by Aldous Huxley

reverendsteveii ,

rouge nations

Can’t tell if typo or extremely clever pun

astral_avocado ,

America is the most propagandized country? Really?

Franzia ,

most is an overstatement. Yeah I think we are, it seems to take a lot of work to get past my American biases when reading world news. I could fall into “America Bad” leftist takes, and that would be just as lazy.

jarfil ,

Probably. Since it’s one with the least censorship, everyone needs to push more propaganda than the opposition…

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

You believe the US is one with least censorship? Did they tell you that?

jarfil ,

Guess it depends on what we call “censorship”. Is it state enacted censorship of personal opinions? Is it censorship of porn? Is it how many reporters get killed each year?

At least the US has the 1st amendment; a lot of countries don’t, or circumvent free speech laws with censorship in one way or another (free speech for me, not for thee).

assassin_aragorn ,

justice.gov/…/justice-department-announces-first-…

“In addition, pursuant to a deferred prosecution agreement (DPA) and a seizure warrant issued by the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, Empire Navigation, the operating company of the vessel carrying the contraband cargo, agreed to cooperate and transport the Iranian oil to the United States – an operation which has now concluded.”

Link came from this CNN article. Would you say that ignoring the facts of a situation and using it to push an agenda would be, perhaps, propaganda?

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

transport the Iranian oil to the United States

So everyone is cool with the US taking stuff that isnt theirs?

assassin_aragorn ,

You didn’t answer my other question – if China seized oil from an international shipping company, because China had sanctions against selling oil to the US after designated them a sponsor of terror, and a Chinese vessel was going to be used, would you be just as upset?

Because I’m fine with the US seizing goods from a US ship if they’re violating US trade sanctions – just like I’m fine with China seizing goods from a Chinese ship if they’re violating Chinese trade sanctions. If the company didn’t want to have their cargo seized, they shouldn’t have used a US/Chinese ship to act against US/Chinese sanctions.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not good with it in either situation, sanctions are ecocide.

assassin_aragorn ,

Well you’re consistent, which I appreciate and respect.

PlantDadManGuy ,

Never heard of a little place called North Korea? Read a book.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

Have read a book, its called projection.

shasta ,

That’s a weird title. Is it about film displays?

Absolutemehperson ,

ITT: “It’s ok when we do it.”

SCB ,

This but unironically.

The court filings also show allegations that “profits from oil sales support the IRGC’s full range of malign activities, including the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and their means of delivery, support for terrorism and both domestic and international human rights abuses.”

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Remember Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction?

SCB ,

Yes. Also that has no relevance here.

Are you suggesting the Iranian government is not a hell state that deserves sanctions?

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Plenty of hell states deserve sanctions, including the US. Being a hell state isn’t a criterion for sanctions. You’re just parroting US propaganda which pretends human rights are why it applies sanctions when in reality that is the last thing on their mind.

SCB ,

So you agree they deserve sanctions and this is a good thing.

Why are you arguing?

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

I said “Being a hell state isn’t a criterion for sanctions.” Sanctions don’t work the way you think they do. They don’t actually punish the people who make hell states the hell states that they are. If they did, then the hell state that would be among those that deserve it the most would be the USA. Do you agree with this?

SCB ,

No, but whether or not I agree the US should be sanctioned is not relevant here.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Cool, because being a “hell state” is not relevant for sanctions.

SCB ,

Iran’s government is the reason we sanctioned Iran.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, because they reclaimed the oil instead of handing it over to western companies.

SCB ,

No, because they’re a totalitarian islamic nightmare.

bAZtARd ,

So is Saudi Arabia

SCB ,

Yeah I’m all for destabilizing them too. Let’s do it in lieu of carbon taxes since it will have the same net result for the average American.

I am most definitely pro-intervention. Freedom is non-negotiable, and free countries have a moral imperative to spread liberal democracy across the planet. The strong have an obligation to protect the weak.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

This is your brain on american propaganda.

SCB ,

This is your brain on “being a good person.”

TokenBoomer ,

I like you. Remind me to never argue with you.

mind ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    SCB ,

    I’m unaware of a pending invasion of Iran, and I think it’s about a year late for the kind of intervention I’d have liked to see.

    The Iranian government has no right to exist, and should absolutely be overthrown, though.

    Franzia ,

    Of course it’s okay we sanction human rights abusers. Europe does it, too. Am I supposed to disagree with another country’s sanctions or something?

    emax_gomax ,

    Human rights abusers when they aren’t our allies. US has been pretty chill with Saudi Arabia and they literally dismembered someone on foreign soil because they vocally opposed the tyrannical regime.

    Opafi ,

    Saying there should be harsher treatment of SA doesn’t make the sanctions against China any less justified.

    mind , (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Opafi ,

    You know what’s even funnier? Replace “China” with “Iran” in my comment and it still applies.

    Franzia ,

    Saudi Arabia is allies only with our Republican governments. They have been and are going to keep effectively sanctioning us by raising the price of oil before our next election.

    assassin_aragorn ,

    "In addition, pursuant to a deferred prosecution agreement (DPA) and a seizure warrant issued by the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, Empire Navigation, the operating company of the vessel carrying the contraband cargo, agreed to cooperate and transport the Iranian oil to the United States – an operation which has now concluded."

    • DOJ Press Release

    Is playing fast and loose with the facts also okay when you do it?

    mojo ,

    I think the proper word here is “liberated”

    toiletobserver ,

    Mission accomplished

    TheThirdAccount ,
    @TheThirdAccount@kbin.social avatar

    There is a lot of misreporting and misunderstanding about this. OFAC (Office of Foreign Asset Control) exists within Treasury and is responsible for enforcing sanctions usually created by executive order ("EO"), or very rarely, Congress. EOs and OFAC interpretation are very specific: some sanctions, such as the ones on the export of Iranian crude/products, are explicitly extraterritorial. Meaning, the US reserves the right to come after you no matter what country you are a citizen of or where you company is domiciled. It's very rare for them to try this one anyone who doesn't have US nexus since there is not much practically speaking they can do, but they could in theory. OFAC has, no pun intended, FAQs for all of this easily found at their site.

    Now, this case was extra stupid. Oaktree is the single biggest PE investor in shipping, going in heavy starting a bit before the financial crash and going in really big with Eagle Bulk c. 2012 or so. Oaktree is, as stated, a US company, but that wasn't the main reason: they did this transaction in USD. Which was stupid, but having met the bastards at Empire a few times, I can say they are not the brightest bunch (as as far as I understand they are doing most of this kind of work in EUR with some shady banks nowadays anyway). Anyway any transaction in USD goes through the SWIFT system (which is why kicking Russia out of it was such a massive deal). This means there was simply no way this was not going to get eventually scanned since banks have repurposed their AML programs into sanctions programs or subscribe to sanctions-specific services like PoleStar's PupleTrac (what my company uses) or Windward or Lloyd's, etc. Now the dirty secret is that the banks don't really understand movement data that well, but Empires has done this (and Venezuela) so often for so long, someone at Treasury probably said, "OK, since we got Oaktree all up in this, let's make an example of of these guys to scare others away from these trades."

    [spoiler alert: it did not scare others away from these trades and most folks estimate there are about 1,000 large tankers that form a so called "Dark Fleet" trading in Iran, Venezuela, and now Russia since both crude and product have broken the price cap at all Russian export locations. You cam make about 40% more shipping such cargos than legal ones.]

    Anyway, I digress, The the point is that OFAC doesn't care if you have US nexus; it just makes you easier to catch if you do. Source: I am the head of credit and compliance for a large oil company that works closely with the shipping industry.

    stevedidWHAT ,
    @stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m sorry man but when it comes to international topics I can’t trust some faceless user on the internet for a run down of what happened.

    Do you have any sources or directions you can point me in for more information about the inconsistencies in reporting?

    (Just had a thought, we should have meta news agencies that analyze news agencies (including each other meta news agency))

    TheThirdAccount ,
    @TheThirdAccount@kbin.social avatar

    Yeah my guy/gal non-binarny pal, I wouldn't take some Random Internet Person's word either (although I did mention where you could find it....)

    End of my workday and I'm tired and maybe could have found some better examples, but here's the bit about going after foreign financial services: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-31/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-561/subpart-B

    I'm having trouble finding a clear example of the extraterritoriality of US sanctions against individuals, but it's defined in nearly every EO.

    some_guy ,

    OFAC stole a wire transfer to my landlord. I assume it’s because he has a Middle Eastern-sounding name.

    They provided me a case number and I mailed in the forms I found online to dispute the seizure. They sent me a letter saying that they had no record of that case. I realized the futility of fighting the government over a couple of grand and switched to depositing money orders into his account and let it go. Created a lot of extra effort (not that it was difficult, just tedious) on my end.

    OFAC is a criminal organization.

    zephyreks ,

    No shit it’s a criminal organization.

    TokenBoomer ,

    I am the head of credit and compliance for a large oil company that works closely with the shipping industry.

    So, complicit in the destruction of the planet. Good job, Sparky!

    SCB ,

    If you heat your home you are exactly as complicit as he is

    TokenBoomer ,

    This is true. But I know it. I just want to make sure he does too.

    Lemminary ,

    You forgot the smugface

    TokenBoomer ,

    I didn’t need it.

    FireTower ,
    @FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

    Didn’t you say something about being better and not attacking people like two hours ago in this exact thread.

    TokenBoomer ,

    That is not an attack. It’s a statement of fact.

    CertifiedBlackGuy ,

    Hey fuck you, buddy! I forgot to log into my alt!

    !/s!<

    TheThirdAccount ,
    @TheThirdAccount@kbin.social avatar

    It's far more complicated than that. You need X amount of energy density to do Y amount of work, and there is certain specialized work that is only now beginning to look for replacements, although well-to-wake is tough to do.

    AlexisFR ,
    @AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

    Now I’m curious to know how a head of compliance for a oil company found their way to kbin.social.

    solstice ,

    Lemmy isn’t just programmers and cryptobros fyi. Lots of people have interesting jobs and hardly anyone works 100% of the time. Gotta shitpost somewhere.

    BeardedGingerWonder ,

    Nothing precludes the head of compliance from being a cryptobro or a programmer.

    wanderingmagus ,

    US Navy submariner checking in!

    solstice ,

    Red Oktober shtanding by!

    TheThirdAccount ,
    @TheThirdAccount@kbin.social avatar

    Eh, for one we are hyper specialized oil company so not quite as evil as your run of the mill ones. We sell fuel to ships, so unless everyone suddenly agrees they don't need the 90% of the world's commodities and manufactured goods anymore, you gotta use ships. And in a moderate defense, ships by far the least polluting way to transport stuff by ton/mile.

    Me personally I'm a big old lefty, even here within the EU's context (where the American Democrats would be a center-right party).I just fell into this role and happened to be good at it. My function is far too niche for any green energy projects. At the core of what we do and the bit I supervise, we are basically providing short term liquidity to shipping companies, since you sell fuel on unsecured credit. Believe me I've looked (and keep looking) at green and adjacent spaces.

    AlexisFR ,
    @AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

    Oh that makes sense, thank you for the explanation!

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    This entire thread is a masterclass on how a corrupt country can brainwash it’s citizens into accepting violence against others on the whims of a stock portfolio.

    ShittyRedditWasBetter ,

    Tankie loves their Putin daddy. Or I guess it’s probably Xi these days. Iran and China can suck my left nut

    tryptaminev ,

    What? In the article it does state, that the company had to pay for the significant expenses of bringing the ship to the US. So it was likely seized somewhere, where the US has no jurisdication. This is just piracy and it is in line with US crimes like murdering an Iranian diplomat, they invited to negotiations.

    Critizising these blatant crime sby the US, that are similiar to what China is trying to pull in the Sea around East Asia has nothing to do, with being pro Putin or pro China.

    But it is no wonder, that China and Russia can muster support around the world, despite the shit they pull, if the US is still acting high and mighty, while being drenched in blood.

    deft ,

    It is an American company. That is American jurisdiction. The fuck you talking about tankie?

    tryptaminev ,

    The cargo wasn’t american and the company was owned by an american equity company. By that logic half of the US is under chinese jurisdication, because it is owned by chinese companies.

    Also nice, that instead of interacting with half of what i said your immediate go to is to insult me as tankie. China is pulling a lot of shit, but if that is the best the US can measure itself by, then the US is just incredibly pathetic.

    deft ,

    The contraband cargo is now the subject of a civil forfeiture action in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. The United States’ forfeiture complaint alleges that the oil aboard the vessel is subject to forfeiture based on U.S. terrorism and money laundering statutes.

    The complaint alleges a scheme involving multiple entities affiliated with Iran’s IRGC and the IRGC-Qods Force (IRGC-QF) to covertly sell and transport Iranian oil to a customer abroad. Participants in the scheme attempted to disguise the origin of the oil using ship-to-ship transfers, false automatic identification system reporting, falsified documents and other means. The complaint further alleges that the charterer of the vessel used the U.S. financial system to facilitate the transportation of Iranian oil

    I called you a tankie cause your blatantly being a goof about it.

    TokenBoomer ,

    America is not the arbiter of international law. Just because you can bomb people back to the Stone Age, doesn’t make you right. No one agreed to these laws and sanctions.

    deft ,

    Learn to read

    TokenBoomer ,

    Learn to think. Unless this is your job. In that case, have a great lunch.

    deft ,

    You learn to think.

    They literally tried to hide it specifically from the US government. Got busted and got jacked. Get fucked idiot lol

    TokenBoomer ,

    I don’t know how many times I have to say this: **Iran is not bound by US law ** Can Iran just make up laws and apply them to the US? It works both ways. Tomorrow morning, if you see a yellow bus, get on it. Any yellow bus.

    deft ,

    THIS IS NOT ONLY IRAN

    you think this is the end all be all and it just isn’t lmfao shut up

    TokenBoomer ,

    You’re correct. This applies to other countries America is doing this to, like Venezuela. There is a reason they have borders and different names. Because they a law unto themselves. Sovereign.

    deft ,

    So Iranians trying to subvert American law is different though? Like they intentionally moved the funds through numerous companies to disguise it. Also using USD, property of the US government.

    That has nothing to do with the idea of sovereignty?

    Hypocrite.

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    TokenBoomer ,

    You see, America owns everything, everywhere, at any time. Everyone is subject to US laws, like an empire. Oh wait…

    deft ,

    Why did they try to hide these transactions then?

    Admittance of guilt. Moron

    TokenBoomer ,

    The same reason bootleggers smuggled alcohol during Prohibition. Or the same reason reason abolitionists smuggled slaves with the Underground Railroad. But a moron wouldn’t understand analogies. You clearly don’t have the capacity to comprehend the logic. Mendacity only works in small groups. Your reasoning might sway the masses, for a time. But truth will always win in the end, because lies have no foundation in society.

    deft ,

    Truth is Iran killed it’s own people because they didn’t want their ruler.

    Their sovereignty is questionable and you’re a ween about it lol

    TokenBoomer ,

    Lol… this has nothing to do with the topic.

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    Not very deft.

    deft ,

    Russia invaded Ukraine. China is literally waging a genocide. Saudi Arabia murdered Khashoggi in an embassy. Iran literally sprayed live ammunition into crowds last year because their citizens didn’t want their rule anymore.

    But the US took oil that was meant to fund militant groups who intentionally did things to disguise the transaction because they knew it was illegal.

    Sure kiddo

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    No, the US spent 20 years killing various random Middle Easterners and several decades killing democratic elections and voters in central and South America.

    And now they’re trying to start a war with China over…factories in Taiwan which were oart of the great capitalist plan to remove jobs from the US and send them elsewhere so labor laws wouldnt apply.

    You dont grasp basic jusrisdiction. If that “US-owned” (read: private equity/ hedge fund owned) ship is used for nefarious purposes outside of US waters then tough fucking titty, you have no jusrisdiction. You arrest the hedge funders.

    deft ,

    was with you until your dumbass said the US is trying to start a war with China. Fat wrong sis.

    Also the middle east is a religious backwards shit hole and while American imperialism and the reasoning for it was lies and wrong, doesn’t change the fact the middle east is ruled by blood money oil tycoons and religious psychopaths.

    But no. The fact they tried to disguise their money handling is fact enough, they were attempting to evade the US and failed because they knew they were doing something that would cause the US to act because it was under US jurisdiction sorry sis.

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    So then you agree that US warships should not be in the South China Sea because that isnt their jurisdiction.

    deft ,

    Nah China doesn’t own it, also fuck China and fuck you spreading propaganda that China owns it, they don’t.

    Taiwan, Philippines, Japan all allow American vessels in THEIR jurisdiction.

    deft ,

    exactly stfu foh

    TokenBoomer ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    deft ,

    Literally clear as day lol they incriminated themselves by trying to hide the transaction. They even knew what they were doing was illegal, why can’t you accept that?

    TokenBoomer ,

    This is eristic. Your obstinacy displays a stunted intellect. Try reading history and moral philosophy. Then get back to me. You’re wasting my time.

    deft ,

    cute thesaurus come back with actual reasons

    TokenBoomer ,

    I gave the reason. Sanctions are one way bucko, only enforceable through power. But you’re okay with that because it’s your team. Grow up.

    deft ,

    you’re over here crying about sovereignty but this is deeply tied in the US and Iran was literally trying to scam

    sucks to suck, sorry you’re wrong. suck it up

    FlowVoid ,

    It’s an American ship. It’s bound by American laws.

    TokenBoomer ,

    The ship is, Iran is not.

    FlowVoid , (edited )

    While underway, everything that happens aboard that ship is governed by American laws.

    If the captain murders one of the crew, they can be tried in the US.

    If the crew sell passengers cocaine, they can be tried in the US.

    Likewise if the captain and crew transport contraband oil.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Yep

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    WRONG

    Thanks for demonstrating the violence of American capitalists and the value of stock portfolios over basic right and wrong.

    Fucking pirate

    CmdrShepard ,

    I’d point out that this ship was owned by American capitalists trying to boost the value of their stock portfolio, but I think that might cause your head to explode.

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    That was exactly my point.

    CmdrShepard ,

    Well then your point no longer makes any sense if that’s who you were referring to.

    assassin_aragorn ,

    “In addition, pursuant to a deferred prosecution agreement (DPA) and a seizure warrant issued by the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, Empire Navigation, the operating company of the vessel carrying the contraband cargo, agreed to cooperate and transport the Iranian oil to the United States – an operation which has now concluded.”

    Damn this is some new age piracy with the company itself transporting the contraband.

    This is why venture capitalists win. You choose hills to die on that have no bearing whatsoever and fabricate the existence of violence on the hills.

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    Wow…so they totally stole the oil AND deferred prosecution.

    assassin_aragorn ,

    That’s a good thing? The company doesn’t get prosecuted in return for bringing the oil back.

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    Back to Iran?

    nostradiel ,
    @nostradiel@lemmy.world avatar

    Open minded person you have my full support. (y)

    Krauerking ,

    The company’s vessel, Suez Rajan Limited, transported the contraband to the US and “incurred the significant expenses associated with the vessel’s voyage to the United States,” according to the DOJ.

    Here.

    Literally just try reading the fucking article instead of acting high and mighty without any effort because you want to be right.

    CmdrShepard ,

    Where does it state blood was spilled? If the US seized the ship out in the open ocean (piracy), how would the company have incurred any expenses on the journey to the US? They wouldn’t be the ones piloting the ship.

    Krauerking ,

    What? What? You aren’t even making sens and not talking as if you read the article or understand what is being talked about here.

    They told a ship of an American finance holding company to get it’s butt to their borders or suffer consequences and made the company pay for fees, and it’s own gas usage.

    I quoted the part of the article where it says they piloted the ship back to the US? Also you could still have the company pay all costs associated. So many people in here who don’t read.

    CmdrShepard ,

    Yes it’s clear people don’t read. For example, when someone is asked to provide evidence to the claim that “blood was spilled” or “piracy occurred,” people respond with a quote about the company “incurring expenses” as if that is in any way relevant or satisfies the question.

    Krauerking ,

    Are you responding to the wrong comment?

    CmdrShepard ,

    Yes apparently. Up until this reply, your comment was in the comment chain talking about how “blood was spilled” and people demanding proof of this.

    Krauerking ,

    That sounds about right for lemmy

    iforgotmyinstance ,

    Cope and seethe.

    I hope we seize so much oil that China, Russia and Iran have economic contractions.

    What blood was spilled? The ship turned itself in following a court order. No USN involvement.

    zephyreks ,

    Piracy is only bad when Asian people do it.

    CmdrShepard ,

    Also, piracy didn’t occur here. It was a ship owned by a US company who was served a court order, admitted guilt, and sailed to the US…

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    Tankies hate Putin. Fascists and capitalist aggressors love him. Which are you?

    Daft_ish ,

    Were you not there January 6th when tankies stormed the capital?

    Serinus ,

    Careful, if you admit that there are a small number of actual Nazis in the US, that gives Russia the right to invade.

    GiuseppeAndTheYeti ,

    This is the dumbest false rhetoric I’ve ever read. Congrats I guess.

    SCB ,

    As a capitalist aggressor, I hope Ukraine drone strikes Putin right in the dick.

    stevedidWHAT ,
    @stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world avatar

    Fuck you

    Pay me

    assassin_aragorn ,

    Brand new whip 40’s [redacted] like slavery

    stevedidWHAT ,
    @stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world avatar

    TOLD ME I WAS AWFUL AND THAT SHIT DID NOT PHASE ME

    why is Don Gambino so fucking talented

    assassin_aragorn ,

    Played this for my cousin, now he can’t even think straight, black and white music now [redacted] that’s a mix tape

    He’s a serious contender for one of the greats, it’s a shame he’s retired.

    stevedidWHAT ,
    @stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world avatar

    Make The Beat That Murdered It

    assassin_aragorn ,

    Casey Anthony

    Franzia ,

    It would be better for the US if we didn’t sanction Iran, actually. But it might be better for China that we are. We are sanctioning against human rights violations, not just cuz muh money.

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    US sanctions are an attack in their people, not their governments. It’s a lousy policy and never fucking works as intended.

    CmdrShepard ,

    This is like arguing you shouldn’t get prison time after committing a murder because you have kids and they’ll struggle without you around. These sanctions can be more targeted like in cases of Russian oligarchs having their properties seized. In this specific case, a US company was transporting oil in violation of US law and were served a court order. Iran is free to send their own tankers to China and Russia. I doubt the US would blow one of them up.

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    No, see, sanctions also keep those kids from being able to stand up against the regime. The leaders are still getting everything they need; the people are not. Your analogy was bad.

    Franzia ,

    Well I have to agree they target the people and have unintended consequences. BUT I disagree that they don’t hurt the rich and powerful.

    1. Just like here, the rich absorb 90% of the new wealth created. If wealth isn’t being created, they lack power in capital to exert.
    2. We have recently sanctioned Iranian individuals. This means they have trouble leaving their country, and any trade with them is illegal, which again reduces their bargaining power - so that actors like China can swoop in and take advantage of Iran.

    The iranian citizens are standing up and revolting. Iran has seen a lot of direct action over this 40 year history during sanctions. The idea that we are keeping evil people in power is new to me and feels really abstract. In my mind the only way we are making the situation worse is by increasing poverty in Iran. But are sanctions also stopping political upheaval, and how?

    TimewornTraveler ,

    you’re really giving credit to the CIA on this lemmy thread? alright, I guess

    TokenBoomer ,

    They could at least give Iran back their oil. This is like when cops steal your jewelry and claim civil forfeiture.

    deft ,

    The contraband cargo is now the subject of a civil forfeiture action in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. The United States’ forfeiture complaint alleges that the oil aboard the vessel is subject to forfeiture based on U.S. terrorism and money laundering statutes.

    The complaint alleges a scheme involving multiple entities affiliated with Iran’s IRGC and the IRGC-Qods Force (IRGC-QF) to covertly sell and transport Iranian oil to a customer abroad. Participants in the scheme attempted to disguise the origin of the oil using ship-to-ship transfers, false automatic identification system reporting, falsified documents and other means. The complaint further alleges that the charterer of the vessel used the U.S. financial system to facilitate the transportation of Iranian oil

    TokenBoomer ,

    Iran is not bound by US law. You do understand that? Right? Right?

    deft ,

    Lool read what I just post. Iran is irrelevant

    TokenBoomer ,

    This entire story is about Iran. They are a sovereign country. It doesn’t matter what laws the US makes up and uses to justify piracy.

    deft ,

    US company, China, US money and multiple moves made to avoid US government from knowing.

    Sure kid

    TokenBoomer ,

    Again daughter, Iran is not bound by US law. Recursive logic is still recursive.

    deft ,

    Okay well you’re just wrong I can’t help you

    TokenBoomer ,

    If I were wrong, there would be no wars. Why do you think countries fight with each other? It’s because sovereign nations can’t tell other sovereign nations what to do.

    BirdyBoogleBop ,

    The EU also has sanctions on Iran so a Greek company broke the sactions imposed by its country. They used the US banking system to transfer the money as well and the USA upheld the sanctions of another country.

    I don’t know why nobody else pointed that out.

    TokenBoomer ,

    If Russia placed a sanction on the United States and started seizing transport ships, would that be legal?

    BirdyBoogleBop ,

    If any part from purchase to delivery touched Russia or any other country that is sanctioning the USA, yes.

    It’s kind of how sanctions are enforced.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Okay, so the Russian sanctions are hurting the American economy, causing unemployment and starvation. So, the US thinks the sanctions are illegal and decide to smuggle hamburgers to Europe for money. Russia intercepts the ships and confiscates the burgers. America objects, but is overruled by Russia and its financial institutions. Should the United States agree with the legality of the situation, even though they never agreed to the sanctions and their people are starving? Also, is it okay for Russia to do this even though it unduly hurts the people of America?

    BirdyBoogleBop ,

    Well it’s not smuggling if the hamburgers go to Europe and there is no sanctions. So yes that would be wrong as the trade never touched Russia. Unless the EU is also sanctioning the USA then no it would be enforcing sanctions of the EU countries.

    Sanctions are enacted usually in reaction to something so as I don’t know why these hypothetical sanctions are in place I can’t comment on the ethicality of them.

    Countries also don’t agree to sanctions being imposed on them. That doesn’t make sense. Thats like saying a murderer who was sent to prison should agree with the punishment or it’s wrong.

    Just to point out that isn’t similar to the original article for the points I made in my previous comment.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Great job at avoiding the dilemma. I too can use words to avoid answering questions that place my argument in an uncomfortable position. Better to pretend to be answering the question than have to admit that I don’t have an answer. That’s why this makes perfect sense. /s

    BirdyBoogleBop ,

    …Okay ask plainly then. What is the problem you have with my answers?

    Are you a free market absolutist who thinks anything that prevents people trading with whoever they like is wrong? I am going to have to disagree with you if you are.

    Are you mad that it was a ship from the USA enforcing the embargo rather than a Greek one? The USA does the heavy lifting protecting all international trade routes so, in all likelihood it is the USA who is going to enforce sanctions especially when it is in there interest to do so.

    Do you think a Greek company that resides in a country that is also sanctioning Iran should be allowed to facilitate a trade that breaks the law of the country it is based in? The company should be punished for breaking the law of the nation it resides in.

    If this was a Chinese company and they used CNY it would have been wrong for the USA to seize the cargo and fine the company but it wasn’t so that is irrelevant.

    TokenBoomer ,

    The sanctions are illegitimate.

    BirdyBoogleBop ,

    Why? You need to say why you think that. I think I have said more than enough on why I think what they did is legitimate enforcement of two countries (Greece and USA) laws.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Because it condemned by the United Nations and the international community.

    BirdyBoogleBop ,

    Right. Okay i see what you are saying now. So. Do you want the sanctions completely repealed, or relaxed to allow better flow of medicines and food?

    TokenBoomer ,

    Thanks for asking a good question. 😉 I’m no expert with human rights and sanctions. I would like to think that they could be relaxed, but that might be difficult. Iran would find loopholes and ways to subvert the regulations. So, I think they need to be removed and let the UN 🇺🇳 take over.

    zephyreks ,

    It’s the same bullshit with the US “pay us taxes no matter where you are” bullshit.

    It’s clear international overreach just like everything else.

    jarfil ,

    All countries do that. Then all countries also want you to “pay us taxes where you live”. Double taxation is a problem for many people, even between countries with tax agreements like in the EU.

    zephyreks ,

    The US is the only developed country in the world where your tax duty is based on citizenship rather than where you live or work

    FlowVoid ,

    If you tried to transport a kilo of Mexican cocaine through another country and were caught, do you really think Mexico would get its cocaine back?

    TokenBoomer ,

    So America owns the oceans blue?

    FlowVoid ,

    No, but they control what happens aboard ships that fly American flags.

    Do you think the ocean is some sort of lawless no man’s land, where captains do as they please with crew and passengers?

    Well, it isn’t. The ship has a flag, and while aboard you follow the laws of that flag.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Yep. But you’re not mentioning why this happened. The Sanctions. Which are…tada- arbitrary and illegal.

    FlowVoid ,

    They are not illegal. All sovereign countries can refuse to trade with any other country or restrict the use of their own currency.

    Which is all that these sanctions amount to.

    TokenBoomer ,

    I should have said unethical or extrajudicial. The United States is preventing a sovereign country from trading. Just because it is “legal” by American law doesn’t make it ethical. You can argue the legality. You may even agree with the ethics. But it is outside international law and condemned by the UN. I never argued the legality of the U.S. law. I am arguing that the sanctions are inhumane and unnecessary. So the ship should have never been seized.

    FlowVoid , (edited )

    Trade embargoes do not violate international law. Otherwise, we would condemn Iran for its embargo against Israel. But Iran is free to pursue whatever trade policy it wants.

    And don’t confuse a statement by a UN employee for a statement by the UN.

    Iran sanctions are meant to slow their nuclear program and thus de-escalate the region. It’s possible they are now counterproductive. But it’s also possible that without them, a paranoid right wing Israeli government would have openly attacked Iran by now. So it may well be the lesser evil.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Trade embargoes do not violate international law.

    International laws do not exist. Source. Thus, the unilateral sanctions of the U.S. is beyond the law, and could be considered an act of war. The geopolitics of the region is not my concern. The unethical sanctions are.

    And don’t confuse a statement by a UN employee for a statement by the UN.

    The United States will not allow a vote in the UN on sanctions. That’s why they have to do press releases. It is from the UN. The nuclear sanctions are supported by the UN, but not the economic sanctions. Which is why the tanker was seized.

    FlowVoid , (edited )

    International laws do not exist.

    Alena Douhan, the Special Rapporteur you cited.

    States have an obligation under international human rights law

    Make up your mind. If they don’t exist, then what she said is meaningless.

    And on the subject of Ms Douhan…

    The Special Rapporteurs are part of what is known as the Special Procedures of the Human Rights Council. … Special Procedures’ experts work on a voluntary basis; they are not UN staff and do not receive a salary for their work. They are independent from any government or organization and serve in their individual capacity.

    Looks like she was speaking for herself, not for the UN.

    TokenBoomer , (edited )

    This is pedantic and not worthy of my time. You have no interest in the truth, only in winning. So, great you won. We should sanction the world into panic and starvation until countries destabilize and launch wars that destroy humanity. Nice win!

    jarfil ,

    States have an obligation under international human rights law

    The Human Rights law, is “international”, as in more than one nation recognizes it… and only 160+ of ~200 nations routinely break it with little consequence.

    danielfgom ,
    @danielfgom@lemmy.world avatar

    When Russia and China attack and destro the US, no one should be surprised… The US brought it on themselves

    TokenBoomer ,

    “Acts of trespassing on tankers carrying Iranian oil are a clear example of piracy,” Iranian Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Nasser Kanaani said last month.

    “Iran will not stand idly by in relation to any violation of the nation’s rights and will cut the hands of the aggressors.”

    I will not be surprised

    dannoffs ,
    @dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Yeah, we just stole a million barrels of oil and people in this thread are acting like we would have been wrong not to.

    TokenBoomer ,

    The cognitive dissonance is dizzying.

    K1nsey6 ,
    @K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

    You might have to explain cognitive dissonance

    deft ,

    Look it’s the guy who brings up sovereignty but ignores Iran’s own populace doesn’t want these leaders or the fact this (illegal) trade financially supports that oppression of the people.

    Says he’s a commie yet supports the religious oppressors? No care for the will of the people

    TokenBoomer ,

    How’s your day going?

    deft ,

    Great because my asshole country did something right for once and pissed off some false socialist

    TokenBoomer ,

    Looks like things are finally going your way.

    deft ,

    they’ve always been babe

    deft ,

    If a company sold guns to a cartel and then the government intercepted that shipment and confiscated it. You’d not care.

    No difference here.

    dannoffs ,
    @dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    It’s an entirely different scenario and even then it would depend on where the guns are coming from and where they’re going. There has so be some limit on what countries can do on the international stage.

    deft ,

    There kind of is. The problem is enforcing it.

    Which the West tries and places like Iran want to circumvent it.

    America sucks and has issues but some countries out there really need to get it together. Iran is easily one of them.

    America did nothing wrong here this was legit and there was punishment for it, tried to hide transactions and go around sanctions, get caught lose your shit.

    assassin_aragorn ,

    If China had a law against shipping oil to the US, and a Chinese ship was going to ship oil to the US, would it be wrong for China to prosecute the ship owners and seize the oil?

    dannoffs ,
    @dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    The US is not prosecuting the US owners of the ship.

    If it was only technically a “Chinese ship” in that a Chinese equity firm temporarily owned the ship and they used that as an excuse to seize the cargo and prosecute the foreign operator, that would also be wrong.

    deft ,

    Iran sucks foh.

    TokenBoomer ,

    deft sucks foh.

    slaacaa ,

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/bfb60cca-ba31-44e2-907b-942a610ef119.jpeg

    slaacaa ,

    RuZZia is currently the second strongest army in Ukraine, so they got some catching up to do before that.

    deft ,

    Sure bud

    SCB ,

    Russia and China attack and destro the US

    Lmao Russia can’t even beat Ukraine

    TokenBoomer ,

    I’m gonna take a break while the bots and state department shills get their talking points worked out; so they can explain and justify how this is legal by international standards.

    catsarebadpeople ,

    Maybe you should join hexbear

    TokenBoomer ,

    Maybe you should explain how it’s okay for America to steal from another country?

    nave ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    TokenBoomer ,

    Then they should take the ship, and give back the oil. This isn’t about law, it’s about power and control. And it should be considered wrong by any decent, civilized person.

    HuddaBudda ,
    @HuddaBudda@kbin.social avatar

    I think you are being unreasonable in that argument. It's not like they have the oil in cargo containers and can transfer it from one ship to another outside of port. The oil IS the ship.

    Sure they could dump it in the ocean? Which would be the dumbest of all options.

    Or they could seize the ships, and tow them back to port. Which looks like the options they took.

    TokenBoomer ,

    You should read up on what’s happening before commenting.

    HuddaBudda ,
    @HuddaBudda@kbin.social avatar

    So now I have to prove my geopolitical stance on an engineering and logistics problem?

    I can only give the facts, what people do with the politics is their own prerogative.

    TokenBoomer ,

    The logistics are pedantic. They took the ships under civil forfeiture. Made the company pay to transport the oil to Houston. Took the oil and sold it. They could have left the oil. Arrested the captain and crew. And fined the company. They stole it for… reasons.

    Franzia ,

    It is about power and control. We are uaing sanctions on Iran and many officials in Iran as leverage for the nuclear deal as well as other human rights violations. And this company fucked up real bad, otherwise we would have let them do it. So much oil gets sold in Iran, blended in Malaysia, and sold to China at a reduced price for accepting the contraband oil.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Iran: US sanctions violating human rights of all living there, say UN experts

    Franzia ,

    Iran is violating the human rights of all living there. Do you have such a weak memory? And while they do that they want to build nukes? Fucks sake.

    TokenBoomer , (edited )

    The sanctions are exacerbating the human rights issues. It’s in the article. From the United Nations.

    Franzia ,

    This article is compelling, and I’m a bit torn. I didn’t realize Iran has had these sanctions since 1979. I should know that, I paid attention in hiatory class. When the sanctions are framed on a shorter time scale, the JCPOA in 2018 and sanctioning of officials in 2022… those make more sense. But this 40+ year long policy was not a good choice. I imagine the Iranian people will just suffer for the rest of my lifetime unless we shift methods.

    zephyreks ,

    US sanctions on Iran are resulting in harm to the country’s environment and preventing everyone there - including migrants and Afghan refugees - from fully enjoying their rights to health and life, and contributing to other factors such as rising air pollution

    Badass_panda ,

    Another country? What are you talking about my dude? An American company bought oil from Iran (in violation of US law), and had the oil they bought seized.

    TokenBoomer ,

    You’re late. And that’s not what happened.

    Badass_panda ,

    It takes all of three minutes to click through to the court order here. All three companies do significant business in the US, but the money to buy the oil was US dollars, and came from Oaktree Capital which is based in Los Angeles.

    Which is (and this might be a shocker) in the USA.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Iran is not the USA. The sanctions aren’t recognized. Therefore, any laws America makes does not have to be complied with.Your arguing US law. I’m arguing international. They are not the same. The United States of America does not have authority over the world, despite what you wish. Source. Even the UN says the sanctions are illegal.

    Badass_panda ,

    your arguing US law. I’m arguing international. They are not the same.

    No shit… these companies operate in the US, which makes US law applicable to them.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Sigh…

    zephyreks ,

    So, what you’re saying is, international law should be superceded by domestic law?

    Badass_panda ,

    That’s how it normally works, yes… particularly if the country in question is not a signatory to the ‘international law’ in question.

    zephyreks ,

    Perfect. I’ll let China and Russia know.

    Badass_panda ,

    That they can issue court orders to companies that do business in their territory?

    They … they know…

    zephyreks ,

    That domestic policy supercedes international law? That’s literally been the entire argument for sanctions against China: that their domestic policy violates international law and that under the rules-based international order someone needs to do something about it.

    Badass_panda ,

    Sorry I am finding it very difficult to follow your argument.

    Can you explain what “international law” you believe US sanctions to have broken?

    zephyreks ,

    Other way around: the US is projecting international law on domestic issues that, as we’ve already established, should be governed by domestic policy before falling to international law.

    As we’ve already established, condemnation and punitive actions against a country for unilateral domestic policy decisions doesn’t make sense, even if they are in violation of international law.

    Badass_panda ,

    Bro I’ve been on roundabouts less circular than your logic

    zephyreks ,

    🤷‍♀️ I’ve been on some pretty non circular roundabouts too

    TimewornTraveler ,

    international law?

    TokenBoomer ,

    That’s the point. International designations through the UN are nebulous and practically unenforceable. Countries choose to abide by international regulations or they don’t.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    this is the kind of badassery i want to read about my Government getting up to.. fuck the CCP any way we can, boys..

    TokenBoomer ,

    So, you’d be okay if another country seized American oil for… reasons?

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    the CCP is a fascist criminal enterprise that i'm at war with.. i'm not going to bother arguing principles where they're concerned.. they're all liars..

    TokenBoomer , (edited )

    This affects Iran not China. They’ll just get the oil somewhere else. Your hatred for China, which may be justified, is irrelevant in this case. Don’t let your hatred for China cause you to overlook when America is clearly doing something that is internationally condemned. This will lead to blowback.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    why do you care

    TokenBoomer ,

    Because we live in a global society. And America being a bully will push countries to side with China. There’s a reason 40 countries wanted to join BRICS. They’re tired of being bullied by America. If you love America, you should want it to act with fairness internationally. The golden rule: Would you want other countries to do this to America?

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    bunch of whiney bullshit and fake morality.. our enemies can eat shit..

    TokenBoomer ,

    I’m sure that’s why they feel the same way about us.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    i hope they cry themselves to sleep

    TokenBoomer ,

    When you can’t defend the actions, blame the victims.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    more crocodile tears and fake morality.. the CCP can eat a tub of shit..

    TokenBoomer ,

    You’re hopeless.

    slaacaa ,

    Tank(ie) you for your service!

    TokenBoomer ,

    Your a child, and that’s not even funny.

    slaacaa ,

    *you’re

    TokenBoomer ,

    Autocorrect. Still not funny.

    bingbong ,

    Iran blows just as much, fuck them too

    TokenBoomer ,

    Yeah, let’s just glass the fucking world, so the 200,000 people left can ice skate in the Summer.

    bingbong ,

    You’re right, China’s going to end the world over an oil shipment. Using all 2 braincells today?

    TokenBoomer ,

    How is this okay for you? We just stole oil from a sovereign country because of sanctions we unilaterally placed on them. Why are you okay with this?

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    your take on this is decidedly other than "Boomer"

    TokenBoomer ,

    And your take should be the same. If China did this to us, you’d be screaming for war.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    i read everything you post in a whiney Chinese accent.. you post in Whinese..

    TokenBoomer ,

    Good for you. I’m American, and I care if we treat the world fairly. We will reap what we sow.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    you only seem to be able to speak for cowardice.. i expect better..

    TokenBoomer ,

    If you can’t defend the injustice, attack the person. I totally expected as much from you.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    why are you defending a fascist criminal enterprise that i am at war with.. this is my question.. with fake morality and fearful answers, like a child.. and then pretend to lecture, like a child would.. it's not very impressive..

    TokenBoomer ,

    I’m not defending Iran or China. I’m not here to impress you. America is stealing resources from countries under made up pretenses. I just recognize it. Attacking me doesn’t change that.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    you are defending them by presenting their bullshit defense.. you are their proxy here for some reason..

    TokenBoomer ,

    Are you America’s proxy? Think for yourself for once. Stealing oil from a country is wrong. You are blaming me for America’s crimes.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    that is the most confused bunch of bullshit yet, i have no idea what any of that means

    TokenBoomer ,

    Maybe you should reread the post. Then you might understand that America is stealing oil from other countries.

    bingbong ,

    One tortured a girl to death for not wearing a head covering and is supplying Russia with kamikaze drones to murder women and children, the other is actively genociding the Uyghur people. I hope America, the lesser of three evils, continues to swing its massive dong in their faces and make things just a little harder for their dumb asses.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Great, So if China seizes a tanker transporting microchips to the US, because it was once owned by a Chinese corporation, you’ll be okay with that?

    bingbong ,

    Why would I give a shit?

    TokenBoomer ,

    If America keeps this up, you may find out why you should give a shit.

    bingbong ,

    No, I don’t think I will. Both Iran and China are in no position to actually harm the US. Especially not over an oil tanker that obviously violated our sanctions. The worst likely outcome is further economic decoupling from China, which I wholeheartedly support. You know, because of the whole actively commiting genocide thing.

    TokenBoomer ,

    This is what you sound like.

    PipedLinkBot ,

    Here is an alternative Piped link(s): piped.video/P7JRvwfHFwo?si=D39IH8fLxH2nQv9b

    Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

    I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    haha is that a threat or just fear.. i can't figure out which..

    TokenBoomer ,

    Neither. Just understand that actions like this are what cause terrorist acts against America. I don’t want that, and neither should you.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    so it's fear

    TokenBoomer ,

    Deflection from the fact that America is stealing oil from countries under the pretense of sanctions that they made up. Focus on the matter addressed in the post, not me. Or are you too afraid that it will shatter this illusion you’ve created that America is a just country?

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    i said i think your reasons are bullshit

    TokenBoomer ,

    This is about the post, not me. Don’t be mad at me. Be mad that America is swinging its dick around like John Bobbit just asking for it to get cut off.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    more threats, like a little child.. the CCP is a silly mafia that will get what's coming to it.. they are incompetent and greedy.. they are corrupt and weak..

    TokenBoomer ,

    Either engage with the post about America stealing oil, or stop replying. Your complaints about me or China are irrelevant. Should America be allowed to do this and why?

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    does issuing instructions like that work where you're from

    TokenBoomer ,

    You’re redundant. There is a way to defend these actions by America. Hint: Game theory.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    you're working really hard at this for some reason

    TokenBoomer ,

    Because I care.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    i know, you're here working counter-terrorism, or scared of getting your dick cut off or something

    tryptaminev ,

    That is your justification for criminal behaviour?

    By that logic every country in the world would be right to bomb the US into rubbles.

    It is no wonder, that the US is losing its grip on soft power, as they violate international rules and say “haha we have the military for it fuck you.” The US will end up being that isolated military dicatorship everyone else hates, but noone does something about because they got nukes. With this fascist attitude of the american people, that you also like to rub into everyones face, you’ll eventually be like North Korea.

    zephyreks ,

    Oh crap, you’re at war with the CCP?

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    aww that's just me having some internet fun with the Chinese spy shop running that account, don't get upset

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