There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

JD Vance opposes military aid, NATO membership for Ukraine. He's now Trump's VP pick

Vance is one of Trump’s most vocal supporters and an outspoken critic of U.S. aid to Ukraine.

. . .

Vance has said that it would be “completely irresponsible” for Ukraine to join NATO. He has also argued for the U.S. to focus solely on preventing Chinese expansion, even if that means sacrificing sovereign Ukrainian lands to Russia.

“Any peace settlement is going to require some significant territorial concessions from Ukraine, and you’re gonna have a peace deal, because that’s the only way out of the conflict,” Vance said in February.

MBFC
Archive

hamid , (edited )

deleted_by_author

    •
    vxx ,

    And you should just give up your home to everyone that wants it.

    hamid , (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    vxx ,

    Can you tell me the country? I want to educate myself.

    hamid , (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    vxx , (edited )

    Wasn’t USA siding with Phalavi against Khomeini?

    I think you might have to point into another direction in that case.

    Objection , (edited )

    Yes, the US backed Pavlavi, they’re the ones that gave him power over the more democratic system they had before. He hunted people (primarily leftists) down with secret police and ran the country terribly, as the resource colony it was, to the point that the conditions were created for a revolution, and since most of the leftists had been killed, the fundamentalists were able to take advantage of the situation.

    vxx ,

    I don’t think I should even reply to this pile of disinformation.

    Objection , (edited )

    It’s literally recorded history. Read any history book about Iran (I recommend All The Shah’s Men), or even Wikipedia. The historical record is not “disinformation” just because you’re ignorant of it.

    vxx , (edited )

    History, yes.

    …m.wikipedia.org/…/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi

    In 1963, Mohammad Reza introduced the White Revolution, a series of economic, social, and political reforms aimed at transforming Iran into a global power and modernizing the nation by nationalizing key industries and redistributing land. The regime also implemented Iranian nationalist policies establishing Cyrus the Great, the Cyrus Cylinder, and the Tomb of Cyrus the Great as popular symbols of Iran. The Shah initiated major investments in infrastructure, subsidies and land grants for peasant populations, profit sharing for industrial workers, construction of nuclear facilities, nationalization of Iran’s natural resources, and literacy programs which were considered some of the most effective in the world. Shah also instituted economic policy tariffs and preferential loans to Iranian businesses which sought to create an independent economy for the nation. Manufacturing of cars, appliances, and other goods in Iran increased substantially, leading to the creation of a new industrialist class insulated from threats of foreign competition. By the 1970s, Shah was seen as a master statesman and used his growing power to pass the 1973 Sale and Purchase Agreement. These reforms culminated in decades of sustained economic growth that would make Iran one of the fastest-growing economies among both the developed world and the developing world. During his 37-year-long rule, Iran spent billions of dollars’ worth on industry, education, health, and military spending and enjoyed economic growth rates exceeding the United States, the United Kingdom, and France. Likewise, the Iranian national income rose 423 times over, and the country saw an unprecedented rise in per capita income—which reached the highest level of any point in Iran’s history—and high levels of urbanization. By 1977, Mohammad Reza’s focus on defense spending, which he saw as a means to end foreign powers’ intervention in the country, had culminated in the Iranian military standing as the world’s fifth-strongest armed force.[5]

    Objection ,

    The first link is about a different incident. During WWII, the Allies were concerned about the possibility of Iranian oil falling into the hands of the Nazis, and they also wanted to set up a supply corridor to connect themselves, so when the Iranian king that Britain had installed refused to cooperate, they invaded, deposed him, and instituted his son in his place. However, the monarchy was still bound by parliament at the time, until the US overthrew the prime minister and granted the shah absolute power, accountable to no one.

    I didn’t expect to find an unironic monarchist on here. It’s true that he instituted some programs over the course of his 37 year reign, but they weren’t nearly enough, the country was still a dictatorship and people were very unhappy with living under his rule.

    TexMexBazooka ,

    I agree with a lot of what you said, but the US inventing Islamic fundamentalism is a comical take.

    Abrahamic extremists have been useful idiots of those in power for thousands of years. The US is just the latest to take advantage.

    The real problem there is religion is poison

    hamid , (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    TexMexBazooka ,

    Theocratic hello hole say what?

    suction ,

    All I need to see is that beard / haircut

    Bremmy ,

    And the eyeliner

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    "Non interventionist

    “Fully supports israel”

    Meme candidates gonna meme

    Akuden ,

    Sound about right. No need to fund this slaughter.

    tired_n_bored ,

    When a war will break out on your land, don’t fight back, don’t ask for help. Surrender everything to anyone, because you don’t want a slaughter even if it means getting everything stolen, including your freedom, your identity and your civil liberties, right?

    IzzyJ ,
    @IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

    He unironically probably will when the magats come for him and his own

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Fighting back makes them a terrorist.

    Unless the land is strategically advantageous to America then they are freedom fighters.

    Akuden ,

    Ukraine should fight back. Americans shouldn’t fund war. See how easy this is?

    tired_n_bored ,

    So should Poland, the Baltics, Germany and so on? The whole Europe should crumble to the US’ enemies? How can it be in the American best interest?

    Akuden ,

    The EU can fund its own wars?

    nexguy ,
    @nexguy@lemmy.world avatar

    So now all EU countries need to develop and store their own nuclear weapons since the nuclear umbrella provided by the U.S. is gone. This would be the largest proliferation of nukes in generations.

    Akuden ,

    The US has agreements to defend their allies. Ukraine isn’t an ally.

    nexguy ,
    @nexguy@lemmy.world avatar

    Why hand an easy win to putin so that he can continue rolling over democracies and vomiting more genocides in order to use their populations to further destroy democracies and commit more cultural genocides? Do you want as many authoritarian countries as possible?

    Akuden ,

    You have no idea what Putin’s goal is so don’t pretend as if you have some deep insight. The EU can fund its own wars.

    nexguy ,
    @nexguy@lemmy.world avatar

    Just what Putin has allowed his state run media to say. Ukraine is not a real country and others are next. They also want Alaska back so that needs to be given up immediately to prevent bloodshed right?

    Akuden ,

    Source?

    nexguy ,
    @nexguy@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m not going to show you how to use a search engine but here is the first of many examples after seconds of searching.

    www.kommersant.ru/doc/877224

    kent_eh ,

    Do you actually believe that Americans are singlehandedly funding Ukraine’s defence?

    Akuden ,

    You bring up an excellent point. America doesn’t have to provide further support, because they aren’t single handedly funding Ukraine.

    www.ifw-kiel.de/…/ukraine-support-tracker/

    offspec ,

    They’re only in danger because we took their nukes. They literally left themselves defenseless under the agreement that we would serve as their alternative.

    redditReallySucks ,
    @redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Forgot the /s?

    gardylou ,

    Putins favorite, JD Vance.

    DoucheBagMcSwag ,

    HERE COME THE FUCKING TANKIES

    anticolonialist ,

    Without tankies this place wouldnt exist, so yea we are gonna be here

    el_bhm ,

    Without fascism you would not exist either.

    todd_bonzalez ,

    It must be hard for the Tankies that developed Lemmy that most users dislike their communities.

    It’s a shame that a regressive and thoughtless fringe ideology is attached to the project.

    But make no mistake, Tankies didn’t invent federated social media or ActivityPub, they wrote a single piece of software. If it wasn’t Lemmy, it would be Kbin or some other project.

    If the Tankies keep it up, they might find their software doesn’t get much funding or community attention, so there’s no reason to convince yourself that this place will continue to exist as a Lemmy-centric network.

    rekorse ,

    Lol this passive aggressive nonsense is the most american thing in this thread. If you people dont stop having your own opinion, us white folk might just stop funding your little projects! How big and important you are, we definitely wouldnt want to offend you.

    Excrubulent ,
    @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

    I’m not going to be passive aggressive about it, there’s a simple reality at play here.

    Lemmy is FOSS, so the moment that these tankies try to give themselves some backdoor or whatever to gain undue influence over the system, it will be discovered, forked and everyone will switch and they will be left out in the cold with nothing.

    Maybe that’ll happen, maybe it won’t. Maybe they’ll get sick of only running pariah instances and take their ball and go home, except we can make a copy of their ball and keep going.

    That’s why I’m happy to use the system, it’s an open ecosystem and no individual developer has the power to torpedo it, even if they are the founders. Their authoritarian tendencies can’t do that much damage in the long run.

    rekorse ,

    I was more talking about how you made it sound like the founders of lemmy are upset with the user base of it as a whole, and then said they are fake founders anyways because the real work was done before them by others, and then said if they keep it up (never said what they were doing to begin with) SOME PEOPLE wink**wink will stop supporting them financially.

    Its just dripping with self importance and arrogance. Its an extremely american thing to assume that your viewpoint is the only valid and logical one.

    Excrubulent ,
    @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

    You have me confused with someone else.

    How very like a tankie to be unable to follow the basic and obvious facts of a situation. That’s necessary to become a tankie.

    rekorse ,

    Yeah I assumed the person defending the OP was the OP, my bad. What’s your excuse for being an asshat? Internet tough guy? You sound so big and in charge when you talk like that you know. Do you talk to strangers like that in person too? Can you share your other qualities so I can copy them? You are obviously an amazing person so please help me.

    Excrubulent ,
    @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

    I’m not seeing anywhere you’re explaining that I’m wrong about anything here, so there’s nothing to respond to.

    Unless… oh no. I’m being insulted. Better defend myself in the eyes of this internet rando.

    rekorse ,

    Call it even I suppose.

    Objection ,

    Tankies hate JD Vance too. The only reason he wants peace in Ukraine is to start shit with China. We tankies don’t want to make peace in one place just to fight somewhere else, we want peace and deescalation all over the globe.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Okay that’s cool, what about Iran, Russia, China, and North Korea, out there starting shit with everyone?

    Prior_Industry ,

    If you just give them what they want, they go away. Simples 🤦

    militaryintelligence ,

    Appeasement. 60% of the time it works every time.

    Prandom_returns ,

    …which is basically enabling imperialism.

    Objection ,

    It’s wild how eager people are to look at the exact same people who lied us into Iraq and Afghanistan and say, “Yeah, I trust them to have the people’s best interests at heart when they lead us into another conflict.”

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/07985775-e7d5-4f61-8fc6-1ec5f5680caf.jpeg

    Prandom_returns ,

    Not everybody on Lemmy is American and bound to American news. Some of us live near russia and know first-hand about what it is and what it isn’t.

    I know, you americans are really good at “doing your own research”.

    Objection ,

    Not everyone who went into Iraq or Afghanistan was an American either, the leaders of plenty of other countries supported it too.

    Also we’re talking about American politician JD Vance and what he wants to do regarding US foreign policy, so the history of US foreign policy is obviously relevant.

    Prandom_returns ,

    I’m not talking about JD Vance. I’m talking about very convenient to tankies and ruskies “we want peace and deescalation” when Ukraine is devoured by an imperialist, authoritarian shithead.

    But again, you’re a self-proclaimed tankie, of course your gobbling authoritarian dick.

    Objection ,

    Can’t think of a time in history where both sides in a war didn’t claim it was about defense and security, whether it was or not. I remember when they said “Either we fight them over there or we’ll have to fight them here,” and went off to kill a million people in the Middle East, and then they lost, and now, where are all the terror attacks they said would happen? I remember too (though I’m not old enough to have lived through it) when they said if we didn’t go out and kill 4 million people in Vietnam, they’d keep expanding all over and eventually we’d be fighting them here. Well, we lost that one too, and nothing bad happened afterward. So forgive me if I’m just a little bit skeptical of the latest pretext for pouring ridiculous sums of money into the pockets of defense contractors so the rich can get richer while our schools, roads, and hospitals decline further and further into dysfunction.

    I am a tankie, yes, because tankies seem to be the only people interested in spending less money on tanks and more on human wellbeing.

    Prandom_returns ,

    I always thought that “we want peace” and “stop the war” people were always the biggest morons alive. At least the people who support russian terrorism own up to it. They are intentionally evil.

    After watching so many events unfold, Ukraine getting annexed, women and children raped, children separated from their parents and deported, Bucha massacred, schools and hospitals bombed, for no reason other than imperialsm, you dare to ‘both sides bad’ this.

    From the bottom of my heart, fuck you.

    So, now when Ukraine is annexed, etc., you’re advocating for “stopping war”. Which, unexpectedly, completely aligns with the wishes of terrorists. Oh, how convenient!

    Objection , (edited )

    I’m not the one who wants all that to continue. How many more lives must be senselessly thrown into a meat grinder just to move a line on a map?

    If you care so much about it, why don’t you go volunteer yourself? Ah, but you don’t want that, what you want is for people to drive around, grabbing people off the street, and forcing them to fight your battles against their will. Because you don’t actually care one bit about the people’s wellbeing, you want to use them in pawns of the Great Game, which you seem to mistakenly believe benefits anyone outside of the 1%.

    Anyway you’re not going to have any luck with that terrorist line. That’s literally the exact thing that they said about Iraq and Afghanistan, “You’re either with us or with the terrorists,” I’ve heard that shit my whole life. I wasn’t with them then and history has validated that completely. We’ll see how many people have to die this time before the liberals finally realize that war is bad, yes, even this time.

    Prandom_returns , (edited )

    You’re literally blaming the victim for war it did not started.

    Somehow, in your head, defending what’s rightfully yours is senseless killing.

    What you don’t, “surpsiringly”, seem to want is for russian terrorists to pack their shit and go to back to their shithole. Nah, “that’s impossible”.

    In your dumb head surrendering to the imperialist bottomfeeder authoritarian is the only way towards peace. Which will last as long as the moron decides he wants more land and more suffering.

    Again, the “peace” people are like the most brainless, who can’t seem to think one little step ahead. But of course, this “peace” is very convenient to the usurper which has not occupied the lands, and don’t really want to struggle to keep them.

    Tankies continue to live up to their absolutely boneheaded image.

    The war can end any second, if russia stops attacking and terrorising Ukraine and leaves it’s rightful lands according to international law. Go be a keyboard activist about that.

    Objection , (edited )

    I could not give less of a shit about Ukraine’s “rightful lands.” No, it’s not worth ordinary people dying to preserve the land of a reactionary state.

    It’s so ridiculously easy to fool you into supporting wars. Literally the exact same playbook every single time and you’ll fall for it every single time. “We have to stop them here or they’ll keep coming,” heard it all before. Where are all the 9/11s, now that we lost in Afghanistan? It was bullshit then and it’s bullshit now. Some of us are able to learn from history. It’s unfortunate that others refuse to learn and keep repeating the same mistakes over and over.

    It’s very funny that you call me a keyboard warrior, I still haven’t heard your excuse for why you believe in drafting others against their will to fight for a cause you believe in, while you cower at home. Almost as if you don’t actually care about the well-being of Ukrainians at all 🤔

    Prandom_returns ,

    Lol, there it is. Not a single word to condemn russia and its wankers. Get the fuck out of my sight.

    Objection ,

    The executives of Raytheon and Lockheed Martin thank you for spit-shining their boots.

    Prandom_returns ,

    Lmao shut it, putin’s butt-plug

    VinnyDaCat ,

    I’m not complaining. Only way I’d be happier with his VP pick is if he took up Rubio and forced him to give up Florida.

    Vance is also a snake and he’ll backstab the orange man at some point most likely.

    PlainSimpleGarak ,

    Vance is a cuck. He was a harsh critic of Trump until he wasn’t.

    I don’t see how Vance gets Trump any extra votes. They appear to attract the same kind of people.

    If they win, it gets Vance out of my state. Which is fine (I voted for Tim Ryan).

    obinice ,
    @obinice@lemmy.world avatar

    Vance is a cuck.

    Politics aside, are we shaming people for their sexual kinks now, if they’re not harming anybody?

    PlainSimpleGarak ,

    Yes.

    I’ll give you whatever answer you want in the hopes you’ll go away.

    HawlSera ,

    Those who want to ban my kinks should not have theirs respected

    IzzyJ ,
    @IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

    Unless their kink id humiliation, then theyre 100% valid

    HawlSera ,

    Ordinarily yes, but the second you try to ban porn or gay people, your fetishes no longer deserve respect and neither do you.

    IzzyJ ,
    @IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

    The joke was that people with a humiliation kink would want to be disparaged, so “respecting” them is giving them not what they want

    todd_bonzalez ,

    if they’re not harming anybody?

    Funny that you think people like J.D. Vance aren’t harming people…

    Politics aside

    Fuck off.

    irotsoma ,
    @irotsoma@lemmy.world avatar

    Vance is there so Trump can scapegoat him for handing Putin everything he wants, that’s about it.

    ShittyBeatlesFCPres ,

    This presupposes he believes in anything. I haven’t read it because everyone said it was garbage but I’m pretty sure he wrote his memoir about “Appalachia” when he grew up near Dayton, OH.

    HawlSera ,

    He also cosplayed a poor person to speak to rich people about how “We poor people have horrible habits!” in what I can only refer to as a minstrel show for the privileged.

    HawlSera ,

    He also cosplayed a poor person to speak to rich people about how “We poor people have horrible habits!” in what I can only refer to as a minstrel show for the privileged.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s a pretty good description.

    Spedwell ,

    I haven’t read it either. There is however a If Books Could Kill episode about it that is very worth listening to.

    vxx ,

    I find it weird that his teacher pushed him to write his memoires in college. Who writes his memoires this early and why would a teacher push him to?

    SwingingTheLamp ,

    I read it. It was not garbage, it contains useful insights. I recommend that people read it to understand politics. BUT, NOTE, CAVEAT: Approach it with your critical thinking cap on. The author is an unreliable narrator, which is unorthodox in a work of non-fiction.

    Excrubulent ,
    @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

    “Unreliable narrator […] in a work of non-fiction” is a fascinating way to say, “liar”.

    echo ,

    Yes, that’s kind of a pre-requisite to being on Putin’s payroll…

    sudo ,

    He’s clearly on Peter Theil’s payroll. Theil personally bankrolled Vance’s senate campaign and was the only one Theil funded that was successful.

    If you keep making up conspiracy theories that every Republican takes orders from Putin, you’re going to miss their actual agenda. Shit like Project2025 isn’t Putin’s agenda. Thats a Koch project. Theil’s got his own techno libertarian eugenicist project that Vance is an acolyte of.

    anticolonialist ,

    NATO should have been dissolved with the Warsaw Pact. Its nothing more that the European arm of US imperialism

    Brunbrun6766 ,
    @Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world avatar

    Go away

    anticolonialist ,

    I’m not going anywhere. I will call out US imperialism and colonialism every chance that I get and I will stand against anybody defending that imperialism.

    JimSamtanko ,

    Though your misinformation campaign is off to a VERY good start, I’m afraid that it bodes badly for anyone taking you seriously enough to consider anything you say as resembling a point, let alone a good one.

    My favorite was when you tried to say that Pelosi and Schiff demanded that Biden step down, and when I proved you wrong with direct quotes-

    You ran away.

    anticolonialist ,

    I didnt think I ever said anything about Schiff or Pelosi, and after going over my history I was right. If you have not caught on I could not care less what someone else thinks of me.

    JimSamtanko ,

    Ahhhh… right. That wasn’t you. I get you all confused. Same message, same….

    Anyway-

    It was you though, that admitted you were here to disrupt an election. Haven’t forgotten that part.

    And it’s just as stupid.

    anticolonialist ,

    The disrupting election bullshit is your terminology. I’m simply telling people they don’t have to vote for a fascist. They should feel entitled to vote who they want to see in government. They should not feel trapped into a duopoly that does not represent their interests

    JimSamtanko , (edited )

    Oh come on now… don’t try and paint over it. What you said was:

    I actively encourage anyone to withhold a vote from Trump or Biden

    Actively- Encourage.

    You are urging people to NOT to vote.

    THAT IS DISRUPTING AN ELECTION.

    anticolonialist ,

    No one should vote for biden. If Biden had repeated everything he’s already done throughout his career, but as a Republican, liberals would hate everything he’s done. And rightfully so. But he’s given a pass because of that D.

    JimSamtanko ,

    That’s blatantly untrue.

    xor ,

    Russia invades its neighbour, unprovoked, explicitly to seize their agreed sovereign territory

    “Why would America do this?”

    anticolonialist ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    xor ,

    I mean, that’s straight up not true lol

    Your claim is that Ukraine - while not at war - was bombing itself? And that would be a legitimate casus belli for Russia to invade them, and then seize that territory for themselves?

    That’s a batshit insane take

    anticolonialist ,

    You know the Internet is free

    xor ,

    Oh silly me, your argument is even worse than I thought!

    So the “bombing the Donbas” you’re talking about is the previous time Russia declared an unprovoked war against them!

    “Russia had to invade, because last time they invaded, the Ukrainians fought back. Those bastards!”

    Edit: as an aside, you somehow still managed to be entirely wrong, despite not even saying anything in your reply directly - the internet isn’t free, it’s extraordinarily expensive to run, and costs the consumer to use their ISP, too!

    anticolonialist ,

    Your claim was Ukraine wouldn’t be bombing Ukraine, and you were wrong, they had been.

    xor ,

    That doesn’t exactly count when it’s occupied territory lmao

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    So tired of your repeated misinfornation and outright propaganda. You’re done here.

    crisisgroup.org/…/conflict-ukraines-donbas-visual…

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

    Good thing it wasn’t as Putin has shown Russia is still a threat to innocent nations who aren’t protected by NATO membership.

    anticolonialist ,

    NATO has already told Ukraine they will not get NATO membership because they are too corrupt. The exact same rhetoric that every nation on Earth called Ukraine prior to the Russian invasion.

    anticolonialist ,

    downvoting doesnt change the facts

    gisreportsonline.com/…/ukraine-war-corruption-2/

    politico.com/…/biden-admin-ukraine-strategy-corru…

    YourNetworkIsHaunted ,

    Gee, I wonder if there were any major shake-ups in the Ukrainian government circa 2014 that could have explained this change in tune.

    Ukraine wasn’t able to join NATO because of active territorial disputes regarding Russia’s 2014 illegal annexation of Crimea. The 2022 invasion and intervening Russian-backed fighting in Donestk and Luhansk were naked imperial land grabs trying to force Ukraine back into the Russian sphere of influence despite their democratic processes repeatedly trying to move towards the EU.

    Or in simpler terms, imperialism is actually still bad when Russia does it and it’s weird that you don’t seem to understand that.

    Objection ,

    democratic processes

    “Democracic processes,” you mean seizing power through force in a coup and then banning major opposition parties.

    YourNetworkIsHaunted ,

    Even Yanukovich had been trying to push for EU membership, AKA the guy who was the target of the so-called coup you’re bitching about. He had to shift gears when Putin’s attitude changed and he could no longer split the two, but the whole “euro” part of Euro Maidan was about the sudden shift away from the EU.

    el_bhm ,

    Cool. Corruption is inheritance from russia and nomenclatura.

    Are we liking them facts?

    anticolonialist ,

    The topic at hand is Ukraine

    SkunkWorkz , (edited )

    So because they are corrupt they have to surrender to Russia and the West isn’t allowed to help them defend themselves? That’s like saying that a person deserves to get shot by the police just because he has a criminal record.

    Also the EU already approved Ukraine’s candidate status for accession and accession negotiations officially opened this year. So if Ukraine does things right they will be a member of the EU in ten years give or take. Guess what article 42.7 in the Treaty of Lisbon is. It’s a mutual defensive clause. So end of the day they wil be protected by the bloc whether they are a NATO member or not.

    BaroqueInMind ,

    I have to disagree with your opinion, but also can’t deny that this makes logical sense in an ideal world.

    But the reality is that we don’t, and people still only respond to threats of violence which include deterrence; case-in-point the current situation in Ukraine.

    In summary: fuck Trump, fuck Putin, and fuck you.

    anticolonialist ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    BaroqueInMind ,

    I truly believe that without U.S. imperialism protecting the global oceanic trade routes from rampant piracy you see is happening near the Red Sea and Arabian Sea that could easily happen anywhere, you wouldn’t be able to post your dogshit rebukes with your phone/PC shipped from China.

    If you disagree, please reply with something intelligent for once in your pathetic life that could change my smooth brain mind.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Removed, civility.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Removed, civility.

    tired_n_bored ,

    Yeah according to that guy we must demilitarize when we have a big crazy neighbor who wants to swallow us all. Great idea /s

    BaroqueInMind ,

    I don’t know why my comment got deleted by that pathetic loser moderator, I essentially said I agreed with them.

    tired_n_bored ,

    Without NATO we’d have said bye bye to Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and maybe Poland

    el_bhm , (edited )

    Remember, if russia does it, it is NOT:

    1. Facist.
    2. Imperialism.
    Womble ,

    The irony of someone with the handle anticolonialist spouting talking points in favour of an imperialist land grab where they are literally creating colonies of Russians along the corridor of Ukrainian land between Russia and Crimea is just beautiful.

    anticolonialist ,

    No one is supporting anything like that. If the US would stay out of everyone else’s business the world would be a much better place

    Womble ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    jimmydoreisalefty ,
    @jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world avatar

    I agree that Ukraine has lost land due to the US/NATO stopping Russia-Ukraine peace deals and talks in 2022.

    I am anti-war, so peace deals should be at the forefront; war is a Last Resort[1].

    Many on the ‘far left’ and ‘far right’ say:

    NATO is a terrorist organization.

    [1] Papa Roach - Last Resort 2020 (Explicit) [03:22 | Rap, Rock, USA, In English, Rap Metal, Mental Health, Metal, Alternative Metal, Nu-Metal] youtu.be/D2Jl27lYExU

    Illecors ,

    What peace deals were those? Must’ve missed them.

    cabron_offsets ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    jimmydoreisalefty ,
    @jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world avatar

    useful idiot

    Great show; I made communities for the hosts!

    You reminded me to share a video, thanks!

    Useful Idiots is an informative and irreverent politics podcast with journalists @aaronjmate and @kthalps

    Chocrates ,

    The peace deal where Ukraine gives up its territory.

    massive_bereavement ,

    And then Moldova, and then Lithuania, and then Northern Finland, and then I pinky promise peace.

    Chocrates ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    massive_bereavement ,

    And I was agreeing with you bud. My point is that as long as we concede, there will always be further concessions required along the road if we want "peace".

    The guys at the Kremlin are bullies, we should already have learned our lesson.

    Chocrates ,

    Sorry wasn’t intending to be a dick. I don’t even remember what I wrote.
    Hope you are having a good week!

    massive_bereavement ,

    You weren't, I got that it was a misunderstanding and I was just saying "blue on blue".

    Anywho, have a great weekend you too!

    skillissuer ,
    @skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    not even peace deal, that was ceasefire. when all that was given up only then russians wanted to negotiate peace deal

    CableMonster ,

    It was a peace deal where Russia would have withdrawn to Feb 23 2022 positions, hostilities would stop and Ukraine would agree not to join NATO. Boris Johnson flew in and said that NATO would give them money to keep fighting. Fast forward two years later and we have tens of thousands more dead Ukrainians and much more lost territory, and a terrible negotiating position.

    FreeFacts ,

    Remember Chamberlain? He made his allies submit to german concessions because that would maintain peace. Fast forward five years and we had 40+ million more dead Europeans and the continent bombed to rubble.

    CableMonster ,

    Is every war WW2 for you guys? Do you know the non-propaganda reason this war started?

    T00l_shed ,

    Russian expansionism.

    CableMonster ,

    Thats the propaganda version. Why did russia invade Georgia? (Hint: its the same reason they invaded Ukraine)

    T00l_shed ,

    Yeah, that’s what I said, russian expansionism.

    CableMonster ,

    Gotcha, I can explain it to you. Russia believes that NATO expansion toward them is an extential threat to their existence. NATO and the US know this, and know that NATO membership of the countries like Ukraine and Georgia is unacceptable. So when Georgia was going in the direction of NATO, then russia invaded a couple months later. So then when Ukraine was going in the direction of NATO membership, russia invaded. You can disagree with their reasons, but that is their reasons not some bullshit claim that Russia is the next 1930s germany.

    T00l_shed ,

    Hey! These countries want to be grouped together to defend against my expansionism! Better invade them to stop them from grouping together, halting my ambitions to get the band back together! Nato is a defensive agreement after all.

    CableMonster ,

    You can not like their beliefs, but this was was completely avoidable, and the idea that russia invaded Ukraine and Georgia due to expansionism is a lie, and the people telling you this are aware it a lie.

    T00l_shed ,

    Yeah, if russia didn’t want to expand it’s territory, it would have been avoided. However that’s not the case, it’s not a lie. Why would countries join a defensive pact around russia if russia wasn’t eyeballing their territory?

    CableMonster ,

    You are just repeating the propaganda talking points. NATO knew that it was the reddest of red lines, and they did it anyways. You can not like it, but its the known consequence of the action.

    You should be asking; why would NATO take a completely unnecessary action that would cause a war. But I guess if you keep looking at russia, then you wont think about what is happening.

    T00l_shed ,

    You are just repeating the propaganda talking points. russia knew that it was the reddest of red lines, and they did it anyways. You can not like it, but its the known consequence of the action.

    You should be asking; why would russia take a completely unnecessary action that would cause a war. But I guess if you keep looking at NATO, then you wont think about what is happening.

    CableMonster ,

    Uh… this is not the kind of statement you can just switch the names on and it makes sense…

    T00l_shed ,

    It absolutely is. In fact it makes sense when I switched it. You are minimizing the death and destruction that russia, and russia alone is causing to Ukraine. You are blaming nato, a defensive alliance, meant to keep each other safe from russian/warsaw countries aggression. The only country that is to blame for the war is russia. And to suggest otherwise is an insult to the people who are fighting for their right not to be oppressed by putin and his cronies.

    CableMonster ,

    Nope… It doesnt make sense.

    T00l_shed ,

    That’s your problem.

    CableMonster ,

    Im rubber your glue…

    T00l_shed ,

    Whatever helps you sleep at night.

    Womble ,

    These places should be part of our sphere of influence and we dont like them drifting elsewhere is exactly the reason for Hitler taking over Austria, then the Sudetenland, then Danzig. Its very comparable, down the the presense of ethnic Germans/Russians being present in the Sudetenland/Donbas and them needing to be “protected” being offered as an excuse.

    SreudianFlip ,

    One other given reason that people seem to forget is the published position by Putin that Ukraine is a fiction, that Ukranians don’t exist in a culturally distinct way, and that their claimed history and distinctness should be erased and made properly Russian.

    It’s not just imperialism at that point, it’s genocidal.

    kevindqc ,

    “look what you made me do”

    CableMonster ,

    What did the US do when the soviet union was going to put missles in Cuba?

    FreeFacts ,

    Well, Nato did expand toward them, Sweden and Finland, and what did Russia do? Did they immediately start strengthening their defences against these new Nato countries? Nope, on the contrary, the baltic bases are near empty of forces. It is concrete proof that Russia does not see Nato as a real threat, they know fully well that Nato will not be the aggressor. The whole Nato expansion excuse is the propaganda, and you are eating it.

    CableMonster ,

    They probably do feel threatened also by those countries, but not the same as Ukraine and Georgia. And they are doing the most they can do. Where do you think this ends? Nuclear war? Why do you suddenly care about a shitty corrupt country like Ukraine?

    Womble ,

    Please cite an official Russian source putting forward that offer.

    CableMonster ,

    You want me to look it up just so you can say “THATS A TERRIBLE SOURCE!!!”. I am going to pass.

    Womble ,

    So pulled out your arse then, gottcha.

    CableMonster ,

    If world wide news is considered my arse, then sure thing bro.

    Womble , (edited )

    I mean, if it was world wide news surely it would be easy to get a reputable source like AP reporting that Russia officially made that offer?

    CableMonster ,

    Feel free to do you own research!

    Womble ,

    So again, source: Arse

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    I mean it’s not hard to Google “Boris Johnson Ukraine Deal”:

    theguardian.com/…/boris-johnson-ukraine-2022-peac…

    “As Charap and Radchenko show, the reality is a bit more complicated. Johnson didn’t directly sabotage a ceasefire deal in spring 2022; indeed, there was no deal ready to be signed between Russia and Ukraine. The two sides hadn’t agreed on territorial issues, or on levels of military armaments permitted after the war. Ukraine’s position during the negotiations necessitated security guarantees that western states were hesitant to provide. And there were domestic political questions inside Ukraine related to Russian demands about “denazification” to contend with.”

    So, no, it’s not as cut and dried as CableMonster makes it out to be. There was no fixed “deal” ready to go, at best it was a negotiation.

    Womble ,

    As Charap and Radchenko show, the reality is a bit more complicated. Johnson didn’t directly sabotage a ceasefire deal in spring 2022; indeed, there was no deal ready to be signed between Russia and Ukraine. The two sides hadn’t agreed on territorial issues, or on levels of military armaments permitted after the war. Ukraine’s position during the negotiations necessitated security guarantees that western states were hesitant to provide. And there were domestic political questions inside Ukraine related to Russian demands about “denazification” to contend with.

    So no, they hadnt agreed to revert to the feb-22 borders, that was still a matter of contension, and Russia were pushing for Ukrainian disarmament post war (i.e. surrender).

    My dispute wasnt that there were attempts at negotiation, obviously there were; Macron in particular made a big show of pushing for them. But the idea that Russia ever offered status-quo ante-bellum (as they suggested) is ridiculous.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Correct, but I’m also going to lean on the side of Cablemonster either mis-remembering the facts, or mis-understanding the facts, rather than mis-representing the facts.

    The Guardian article I found is presented as a fact check, so the idea that Boris Johnson killed a peace deal is clearly something that’s been floating around in the zeigeist.

    Womble ,

    Fair enough, personaly I find it hard to give the benefit of the doubt to people from that instance when it comes to topics like this.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Well, I have the benefit of having heard the same thing about Boris Johnson and just not bothering to run it down until now, so it doesn’t surprise me that someone could hear it and uncritically parrot it. :) I mean, that happens online ALL the time!

    HawlSera ,

    The ones where Ukraine agrees to defund its military completely and stop asking for aid and Russia paints a little smiley face on their bombs in order to seem more friendly of course!

    gAlienLifeform ,
    @gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh yeah, the one that goes “cut my land into pieces, for oligarchs’ resorts”

    AuroraZzz ,

    This sounds like something stupid Joe Rogan would say lol

    jimmydoreisalefty ,
    @jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world avatar

    Do you watch Joe Rogan directly or do you just watch people that talk about him and tell you what to think about him?

    AbidanYre ,

    The guy got famous making people eat blended rats. I don’t need to listen to his podcast to know I don’t give a shit what he has to say.

    massive_bereavement ,

    A hearty diet on bended rats made me who I am today, so I do not recommend it.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    But what if I told you he sold brain supplements to make his listeners smart?

    SeaJ ,

    If you are anti-wat, you hoyos be against Russia starting them in the first place or at the very least support making it not worth it in the future. Forcing Ukraine to give up territory is neither of those.

    gravitas_deficiency ,

    Dear god you are tiresome

    HawlSera ,

    You do know “You agree to stop protecting yourself and I’ll consider potentially maybe not bombing your orphanages and hospitals nearly as often, possibly.” is not a Respectable Peace Deal

    HC4L ,

    As a European I’m so gratefull people didn’t “go for talks” on that day they stormed the beaches… sometimes you have to actually fight for your ideals and not water them down every time they are opposed…

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines
    •